Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by Siregar

Can Dzeko play on the left/right side of the forwards (Ronaldinho's/Pato's position)?

he can but its a waste, dzeko best used as a striker.

First off all,i have to say something about Kaladze,i remember he said that he had a great game vs Zurich,if its his best game,i cant imagine what his worst game...he had an awful game there.i agree with you on injuries part,which lost him his place and form,on the other hand,Kaladze would never be a my left back,as he is too slow and not skilled for there,in systems like 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2,you need width...

Favalli or Kaladze or Marek?we just discuss who is worse,thats the problem,we need solid CB to back up Nesta and Silva,not this kind of players...

Secondly,regarding midfield,i think our problem is there,our trio is not good at both limiting rival midfield and dominate it(in big games)i just mean big games.inter midfield dominated and limited our midfield trio easily,even with -1 man down...we need a box to box midfielders there,at least 1 box to box...

then,i said it many times,Borriello is not enough,if we want success,we need Dzeko or another WC Striker and rotate and use him with Borriello for striker spot...

we need box to box midfielders before anyone and World class wing back...then striker,then reserve solid CB and wingers...

Originally Posted by Siregar

Can Dzeko play on the left/right side of the forwards (Ronaldinho's/Pato's position)?

He can play there. Wolfsburg plays with two strikers, Graffite and Dzeko, and both of them are going to the side from time to time, as both of them can take on the players with the ball and both of them can cross the ball, especially Dzeko. But, it would be a waste to play him there, but if necessary he can play there, which is good, because the more versatile players you have, it's better for your team.

it would be nice for the good of team,as we can field both Borriello and Dzeko at the same,it would be a benefit us(especially vs small teams),especially when Pato missing...

I think he played wider-than-usual role in this weeks match vs. Villareal (scored a goal, and had an assist), so yes, he can play on the right, but as Revolver & Lebanese said, it's a waste. In Milan, his best role would be to replace, or rotate with Borri.

While I won't be unhappy if we get Dzeko, I still don't understand the point in taking him ...

We have already top quality strikers (I count Borriello and Huntelaar here), we also have a player who may become the best striker in the world if he is used as a striker (Pato), why taking Dzeko ?

Does that mean that one of them will leave ? Does that mean that Leonardo wants to change the formation ?

Originally Posted by GeoTav

While I won't be unhappy if we get Dzeko, I still don't understand the point in taking him ...

We have already top quality strikers (I count Borriello and Huntelaar here), we also have a player who may become the best striker in the world if he is used as a striker (Pato), why taking Dzeko ?

Does that mean that one of them will leave ? Does that mean that Leonardo wants to change the formation ?

Are you kidding? Two players that scored 14 goals total from open play in 26 games? Please... Pato scored 12 alone and he's a SS! It's a shame for a team that want Serie A title. Milito scored 15.

Pato will never be a world-class striker if he plays a lone striker, or a CF in 4-3-3. He needs one good CF to open the space for him. This position suits Pato great, he's not in the middle all the time, which means he has more space, and he gets in the middle often acting as a second CF. And he is striker already, he is not a winger! Again, Pato all alone in the middle - NOT good.

Leonardo doesn't have to change anything, Dzeko is perfect for this system. Huntelaar will leave in the summer.

I do think both Borri and Hunter are top quality strikers at some points, but:

They should play with each other (or with Pato) in two-top formation. Borri: strong, post-play; Hunter: off-the-ball, killer; Pato: fast, skillful.

None of them could play CF NOW. Dzeko will come or not, he will deliver quality or not, we could not be sure.

The problems of us are Ronaldinho can play only as left winger and where does Seedorf play. Lets forget Seedorf, we could play like this:

----------------------Abbiatti---------------------
Bonera------Nesta-------Silva-------Antonini
Beckham----Pirlo----------Max-----------------
------------------------------------------Dinho---
--------------Hunter--------Borri----------------

in OT if Pato could not play. We need 2 forwards. Only Hunter or Borri is easy to mark, even the stronger, faster, taller (maybe more skillful) Adebayor sucked. The diversity of two forwards make it harder to control, and our midfileders can give many chances as they are the best passers in the world, even Max can pass very well.

Our 4-3-3 only works against small or troubled teams (Roma, Juventus, Real before). In San Siro, with that we lost Inter, MU and draw Real. We caused some problems to MU at first half, but when they got used to it, we were not very effective. Ferguson is wise old man, there no way he will not make any change. He is hunger for CL more than Leo, he directly scouted us some matches when Leo only control each coming match.

This is only my thought. However, we need some changes as our next opponents are not easy to deal with.

I think Dzeko makes a lot of sense, actually.

Watching this Milan under Leonardo, it seems obvious that Ronaldinho is pushing this team forward, but, rather than call this a new case of Milan relying on one player, Ronaldinho's play and style means that the work load is really being evenly distributed with Ronaldinho as our attacking focal point than with Kaka. Looking at our goals scored, 46, its really an amazing achievement, especially considering that we scored only 4 goals in our first 7 games of Serie A.

Yet, why do would we have to go after Dzeko, when we all speak about our defensive frailties? While I wouldn't pay over 25-30 for Dzeko, at the same time, I think Dzeko is critical to making Milan a super power again. As far as defensive cover goes, Galliani has stated that Astori and Marcus Diniz are coming back to Milan. Looking at how useful Bonera has been (Italy call-up too), I would be very confident of having a CB line of Nesta-Thiago-Bonera-Astori-Marcus with Kaladze and Favalli gone. Astori has been one of the key players for Cagliari's good season, Marcus has done a pretty good job for relegation candidates Livorno, while Bonera has done a much better job deputizing for Nesta.

Sure, the fullback situation is where we seem to be a little short. However, I would not be angry if we started Antonini as our LB next year, but, in truth, I would like to have another FB and Oddo out.

But I think Leonardo has his eyes on somebody and it seems he has been able to get the best out of players, Janku has played without a melt-down that says something about Leonardo, doesn't it?

But why do we need Dzeko? There are several games that come to mind, Zurich, Real Madrid at home, Man Utd at San Siro, and our most recent Derby. Don't get me wrong, I really love Borriello, and I am really happy that Huntelaar has been scoring more often. However, neither is the complete sort of striker for either our system or our level.

Borriello is a very good striker, but he can never lead Milan's line as an undisputed striker. Huntelaar has class, is a skilled and a true goal scorer. However, I am not sure if Serie A is really made for him and I think both Milan and Huntelaar would be better off if he left. If he stays, and scores like everyone knows he can, I won't complain, but, he's not exactly pulling off a Crespo, like I hoped. Sure, it might be harsh to only give him a year, but the only reason why I wouldn't support giving Huntelaar another year is because Dzeko is available.

Dzeko, as we've debated, is a very unique player. He is fast, he is strong, he can score beautiful goals, he can score ugly goals, he can provide assists. In short, it seems that he takes the best aspects of Huntelaar and Borriello. Added to the fact that he is truly a Milan fan and an exciting talent, I think Dzeko is what we need.

Huntelaar, unfortunately will have leave for Dzeko to come, but, it is exactly because of those games that I pointed to that we need Dzeko. So far, the difference between us and Inter are the Derby games. Taking out the Derby games, we are, in fact, the better team. Removing the 6 goals they scored, and that we conceded in those games, we have a stronger defense, and attacks that actually score the same amount of goals. The Derby, it seems, has been the major difference between us.

We should have won the second Derby, and we should have put Man Utd to rest. That is the difference between the Milan of 2002-07 and the Post-2007 Milan. We could rely on Sheva, Kaka, and Inzaghi to be decisive. Pato is still young, Ronaldinho is pulling the team with countless assists (is it 16 now?) but the part of our attacking trident that can seriously improve has been that CF.

I believe Dzeko can be the player to take us to that next level. That is why Milito is so important for Inter, he will score goals, he will challenge for the top scorer title. Pato can be that player, but, it seems that in Leonardo's system, Pato does not have the characteristics to play as the CF, and while I argue that he is a natural CF, perhaps the RF role allows him to succeed in other areas? I'm not sure, but, clearly, with Borriello we have improve our "small game" records, but, we have lost a bit of our "big game" scoring.

Part of that is, again, because Pato is young, and has had a few unfortunate injuries that have prevented him from playing to even the potential at his young age. Another part is the difference between a Ronaldinho-led Milan and a Kaka-led Milan. Kaka is a very direct player, that is why he was able to be a second-striker in 2007 so well. It made sense for his style. Ronaldinho, has always been a deeper player, which means less goals, but, many more assists, and I think has given us a very new dimension.

However, the thing we have lost is that Kaka's goals are not there, and Ronaldinho has served many assists on a plate for our players that they have not taken advantage of, at crucial moments. Huntelaar's shot against United, Borriello's header versus Inter. These are moments that stick out to me that point to why we would need a striker, why we need someone like Dzeko.

With Ronaldinho marked with two, and many times Pato, our striker will see much more of the ball. Huntelaar and Borri have both shown that they are uncomfortable with this responsibility, and it is this reason, more than anything, because Dzeko could have missed those chances that Borri and Hunt missed, but, it is precisely because our system means that if you can limit the influence of the danger men with midfielders and FBs, then, you leave the striker to deal with your CBs.

Borri has certainly shown he lacks the clinical level of finishing, while Hunt has perhaps shown more that perhaps Serie A is not suited to his style. Again, I would be open to giving Huntelaar another chance, but, with a unique player of Dzeko being available, I think sacrificing potential benefit from Huntelaar would be worth it in giving Dzeko a shot.

So, in this situation I think the management is actually, slowly, getting their act together. It seems that Berlusconi's removal from direct control over Milan, albeit more symbolic, has provided Leonardo and Galliani with more freedom, not because of Berlusconi allowing it, but, because he has to run a country.

The Mancini deal, for me, shows that Galliani can get what Leonardo wants. Perhaps Leonardo is content with Zambro, Oddo, Abate, Antonini, and Bonera as his FB options? I think Leonardo will buy a new FB, but, I don't think he sees it as much of a priority as many others do. And as long as he's successful, he gets to be right.

Our transfers will only have one major signing, that is Dzeko. Everything else will be low-key like the Mancini deal. Partly because Leonardo doesn't have Moratti money at his disposal, partly because Leonardo likes bringing up youth, and because Milan have initiated large investments in their youth program which is currently doing extremely well.

Is this the best way to go? I'm not sure. The only way to be sure is seeing the results. Would I like to have more money at Leo's disposal? Of course. I'm sure he would too. But being able to bring back a CB like Astori while recovering Bonera, would make Milan's CB situation very good, for next year at least.

Dzeko is required because we lack a striker who can be big, strong, score, and assist. So far, we have big, strong, score (sometimes), but no assists. When you look at the amount of service that Borri and Hunt have, they should have more goals, that is a simple fact. That is why Milan are 4 points behind Inter instead of 1, and why we go to Old Trafford under more pressure than we should be under. If we fight through it, great, I'll be the first one to celebrate. But, why not make things easier on ourselves?

IT is pretty interesting to see how everyone is saying if Milan has a better striker, Milan will be first in Serie A and leading ManU instead of now.....

From a per statistics point of views, it does make sense but a lot more factors are involved. Now I am not saying if Milan have that ONE GREAT striker, the team would not be better off but I think there are more to that.

Milan is not really not scoring goals in the League, and yeah maybe if Milan won both derbies they would have been in first if all are equal but at least from my point of view, Inter beated Milan pretty bad from the 1st derby and it was not really strikers not scoring but rather midfield being over-run. In the 2nd derby, Inter was playing with 10 men most of the time, once that happened, I don't think any striker or any team could really score against this Inter team when they camped 9 players outside the box from open play.
As for the ManU game, maybe a better striker or Hunter being more clinical could open a lead for Milan but the way ManU midfield were pressing, with an inform Rooney and having a LB in Favalli, and questionable in game decisions from Leo, I would not be surprise at all if ManU pulls a Liverpool in 05 Final on Milan.
Point is that this MIlan teams need more than just a striker. But despite that they are still two goals/shut out away from advancing to the QTR of CL and sitting comfortably in 2nd-4pts behind Inter in the League. Would a top 5 striker in the world make a diff, probably but to say that this Milan team is a great striker off from being THE TEAM to beat is really far off.

Originally Posted by Stitch

I have "reported" this some weeks ago on this thread, but nobody seemed to believe me

I'd love to see him partnering Pato in attack, but how would that formation look?

I know I know , they might work in attack in fact they probably will Pato plays fast looks for alot of one two's around the area something Borri and Hunter are not the best at doing. From what Ive seen of Dzeko he is a good player can create aswell as score and would be able to play that fast style with Pato , he also rarely loses a header so would get alot of the ball's in the air and I just think he will play well with Pato.
If Dzeko , Krasic , V.Der Vaart and a Wing back arrived with Paloschi (but i'd leave him at Parma for another year ) and Astori I would be as happy as a *** in Sh1t , but that's unlikely would be awesome though.

If we did IF we signed those guy's I would hope to keep onto Huntelaar Flamini as we need dept .


...............Abbiati...................

WB/Abate....Nesta/Astori....Silva....Antonini

..............Flamini....................

Krasic.........V.Der Vaart............Dinho

..........Pato......Dzeko


Formation a bit off but you get the idea , that would be a good team and with Pirlo , Rino , Hunter , Seedorf , Adiyiah , Borri , Bonera , Mancini ?. Leo would have options on the bench , but something say's JAY those guy's wont be happy on the bench but whatever we need change.

On important matters I hope Pato isnt out for months or even weeks , he is scoring lots at the moment 5 in 4 and he is a goal score that is what he does best , and he is pivotal to Milan's success I pray he is okay....

Pato should be out for at least 2-3 weeks. The last thing we want is to see Pato rush back for a few games and then out for the season.

Originally Posted by Blacktop

As for Kala, it was probably not a smart thing for him to do yet I respect him for voicing his opinion.

He deserves anything but respect for his comment. Players got benched all the time. Milan has several options who are better than him.

But unlike Pippo (who's our 4th choice striker), instead of staying calm and trying to convince the coach in the training session, he whined to the press.

And instead of saying the old cliche like Rino about the possibility of going out if he doesn't get more playing time, he accused Leo and the mangement that "something very dirty is happening to me."

Now, that really crossed the line.

Everybody plays like cr*p sometimes, it's normal. But when he also behaves like sh*t off the field, well you're left with no choice than to show him who the boss is!

Originally Posted by Revolver

Are you kidding? Two players that scored 14 goals total from open play in 26 games? Please... Pato scored 12 alone and he's a SS! It's a shame for a team that want Serie A title. Milito scored 15.

Pato will never be a world-class striker if he plays a lone striker, or a CF in 4-3-3. He needs one good CF to open the space for him. This position suits Pato great, he's not in the middle all the time, which means he has more space, and he gets in the middle often acting as a second CF. And he is striker already, he is not a winger! Again, Pato all alone in the middle - NOT good.

Leonardo doesn't have to change anything, Dzeko is perfect for this system. Huntelaar will leave in the summer.

I'd like to reply your first paragraph but I have no idea what means "SS" ...

You know, I'm all for a new try with two strikers with one of them being Pato ... I never said (read my last post again) that Pato had to be the lone striker, even if I'm sure he can do it and has all the qualities to do it (if I'm not wrong, that was his position in his former club).

SS is supporting striker...

we have a chance to sign a striker like Shevchenko typee?if we have that chance,i'd not sign Dzeko,otherwise,i'd sign Dzeko quickly...

The biggest priority is box to box midfielders,we suffered in big games just because of our midfield,in 4-3-3 our all players fights and vs small teams or troubled teams,it works,if we play with our ideal line up.we win...Thats not a problem...

we have to sign a young Seedorf and a player like Hernanes...