Banter 2009/2010

Flamini has to stay!! one of my favourite players. I cant believe he gets so little minutes.

If we were to play every 3days next season, we need another very good defender to partner T.Silva, in case Nesta is out OR rested, .. Bonera to be CB/RB backup after this 'player X' ,

Last night I was made to realise the fact that we couldnt depend on Nesta-T.Silva duet in the back forever since Nesta is not young anymore.. last night's scenario (where Nesta is out in the last min) is certain to happen anytime from now on til next season

Since we're out , hopefully, Nesta-T.Silva will feature til the end of this season ..

I still can feel the defeat that though I lack of sleep, I didnt feel like sleeping later !

Flamini , together w. Pato & T.Silva, is our FUTURE, no way he's traded !

If this means getting Pastore though? This Argentinian could be our future as well, and knowing our state of finance, we won't be able to buy him outright... And how long can Flamini wait until Gattuso retires?

Considering how hard Galliani and Braida are actually pushing for Pastore, this deal could happen, like it or not...

From what I have heard, Braida rings up the Palermo chairman "every time" Pastore plays well, asking if he may come to Milan.

As for Abate, I would love to see us get a quality FB (like Cissoko sigh....) and give this guy a chance to play where he feels best, in attack. It's obvious to see this youngster's talent, and if we can utilize him right.....

Originally Posted by Filipéz 182

Flamini has to stay!! one of my favourite players. I cant believe he gets so little minutes.

He is the true box to box midfielder. He just need more playing time and he will surely have, as Max is tired and Rino lost his stamina.

If he could cross properly, then our 3 man midfield is complete.

We should take Kaká back. His transfer appears to not have helped either Milan og Real Madrid much... Anyway, not gonna happen.

Bitter exit, but after a night slept over, here's some thoughts about our current situation, beginning from the top...

Berlusconi can't invest like a madman because he's prime minister and he can't afford to spend big on Milan in time of economic crisis. Someone mentioned this in other thread and it's correct. Then, he should make up his mind: politics or Milan. I'm thankful for everything he has done for us, after all for 23 years of his tenure this club ruled the world for like 13 years, but it's time to move on. Either invest, or sell the club. Second thing is, nobody in Italy wants to spend big anymore. The businessmen in Italy are clever and they realized that football can get you bankrupt. Even Moratti doesn't spend big anymore. If you look at Inter squad, first 11, there's some old players, some players that came cheap when they were young or were surplus in their teams, and some players that are actually payed but not much. But we are in bad situation, so we need to spend some money.

Galliani is guilty for signing all those long contracts with old(er) players. That cost us big. For example, Dida played 34 games during the course of last two seasons and he took 8 M for it. That's ridiculous. Galliani should make a 1- or 2-year contracts and when the player is surplus and he's wages are big, then put him on transfer list or let him go when his contract expires.

Leonardo did great for us until this point, nobody expected that we will be second in Serie A with -4 from the top. Furthermore, he resurrected Ronaldinho by letting him play in his favorite position. But, his tactics in not all good. He lets 3 men constantly staying in front of the ball and you can't play big games that way, even with the midfield we had 5 or 6 years ago, let alone this midfield. He must alter his tactics to make Ronaldinho and CF defend more with only Pato staying up to wait for the counter. In Barcelona, for example, Guardiola made a similar tactics where all players are involved in defensive work, except Messi who always stays up because he's quick and he's good on counter. I saw Real game last night and Pellegrini also let 3 men stay up and that was the main reason for their exit.

Then, it's the squad. I said this before and I will say it again: Midfield is THE problem. Since three years ago, we are constantly overrun by even average midfields. Ambrosini doesn't have energy or speed to be the player that runs most and he's not technical enough to be connection between attack and defense. Flamini must take his place and we must buy someone to replace Seedorf. I was talking about this after the first match, so I don't want to write the same things anymore. World-class CF (finally!) is much needed. Side backs too. There are 7 players worth of starting 11 in a team that wants to be amongst the best in Europe: Nesta (must have a younger replacement, because he's old!), Abbiati (same as Nesta), T. Silva, Pirlo, Flamini, Ronaldinho and Pato. Dida, Roma, Kaladze, Jankulovski, Favalli, Oddo, Beckham and perhaps Inzaghi, they all have to move on. Ambrosini, Gattuso, Bonera, Huntelaar, Abate, Borriello, Manicini all are good just as bench players. Seedorf also, because years are catching him up. He's more on the sidelines, then on the pitch. Zambrotta and Antonini are not good enough to be the starters all the time.

So with all good will, we need: 1 starting side back (preferably left-footed), 1 starting attacking box-to-box midfielder with technique, energy and strength and some pace, and 1 staring WORLD-CLASS penalty-box striker. That's for the starting 11. For the bench: 1 good young keeper with prospect, to be No. 1 sometimes, 1 good young CB with prospect to replace Nesta when needed and to be a direct replacement for Nesta when he retires, and perhaps one good wing-forward as a Pato replacement if Adiyah is not it. That's it, 5 or 6 players. Most important, CUT the wages for all bench players (Ambrosini, Gattuso, Seedorf), if they don't except, they can go.

We need , correct me if Im wrong.

1)Wing Back for the right.
2)Centre back
3)Creative midfielder , instead of Pirlo.
4)A winger that can run beat people and cross a good ball.
5)A striker that can play well , fast good in the air that will score 20 -30 goals a season.

Also a back up cantre back , midfielder , wing back .

Thats 8 players we need abot 100 million would do it to a level that would make us competitive.
Enough with this slow old unmotivated team. Even with Nesta ,who is 34 lets not forget can't play forever and Antonini who is good but hardly Maldini and if Pato played we would still of lost maybe not a 4-0 hammering but we would of lost.

I try to remain upbeat but its very very hard , our team is like utd still always playing with Neville , Giggs , Keane , V.Nistelrooy , Veron , Scholes , with O'shea , Vidic , and Rooney thrown in around it would be an awful team with no legs names and past greatness but we are a joke.
Although nobody made any jokes it's just sad thats all. Because that utd team is no classic alot of ordinary players but just way fitter and able outrun us easily.

My brother's we are in mourning all good/great things come to an end.

The only way is up we have hit european football rock bottom , but we will bounce back starting with the scudetto.........FORZA GRANDE MILAN.

We are all over-reacting, like we usually do after a loss. It honestly amazes me how sharp the mood here changes with a loss. Was it a bad loss? Yes. Was it a bad display from many of our players? Yes. Do I think this team really needs the sort of super overhaul that many are pointing to? No.

Milan is not going to implode, we are not becoming a second rate power, especially considering the fact that we have (minus the Derby games) been a better, more consistent team than Inter. We have shown that we are missing a striker who can put away chances, that has been probably our biggest problem. In Serie A, again if you take out the Derby, we actually have a better defense than Inter's, so, I don't think the problems run as deep as we think.

The second Derby and the CL tie against United, and the game against Roma, all illustrated the issues that we have in attack. Ronaldinho has played awesome so far this season, but he was invisible in the second leg against United. However, that is indicative of our problems. If Ronaldinho doesn't have a great game, which he has had a lot this season, and Pato is out, we seem to be out of ideas. That is a problem, and it wasn't a problem even in 2007, when Ronaldo provided the goals to keep Milan going in Serie A and Inzaghi took the scoring load off of Kaka in the CL.

This game was more proof of the need for Dzeko, because finishing it ultimatley what cost us this tie. You could see once that United goal went in, Milan was finished, because we knew we needed 3 goals, and you could see them switch off. It was a terrible goal to concede because Neville had all the time to cross and Bonera thought that marking meant looking at the player.

In terms of Milan's future reconstruction, again, it seems that Milan is planning for the future, and our oldest and most useless players seem on their way out. Favalli, Kaladze, are both gone, replaced by Astori (one of Serie A's best young defenders) and Marcus who has shown that even in a poor team like Livorno, he is capable of doing a job. Considering he'd be fifth/sixth choice, not a big deal.

If Inzaghi is indeed on his way out, Paloschi comes in to benefit from Leonardo's youth coaching skills. That is 3 players that will come into the team to provide depth and give us a strong base to build upon.

Abate, Antonini, and Flamini are all great players for the squad, while Flamini seems to have the potential to become a world class midfielder. It is also very good to see the results of our youth team who boast some great talents, namely Verdi, not to mention Hottor, Adiyiah, Zigoni, De Vito, and Beretta. The coaching staff underlined that in two to three years, they plan on having 6 of Milan's 11 starters be products of their youth academy.

Honestly, if we need to really spend serious money, it would be on another midfielder and a striker, I would prefer a striker. A good FB in the Pancaro-mold would be ideal. Bonera would also be able to be a RB (where he is much better) with the return of Astori, and thus give Zambro and Antonini the job of taking our left.

I am pretty positive, and I don't think that this Milan team really needs a huge facelift, in terms of investment. With the amount of players poised for a step up to the first team from our youth, recalled players from loans and co-ownerships, and the removal of several dead weight players, it will give us more money to play with, a younger, hungrier team, while prolonging the reliability of players like Pirlo, Seedorf, and Nesta.

I am not angry at losing to United because I think our team is bad, actually, I think our team has shown (which I've said for a long time) that it is very good, the problem is, we were not able to play with the players that we needed. And yes, a lack of depth was a problem, making us have to play Nesta more games than we should have, and being unlucky with losing 3 FBs, something most teams can't shrug off.

*I just wanted to add that our youth team is top of their league, in a group that has both Atalanta and Inter's youth teams, teams that many of us (myself included) are very envious of. Just thought you should know that too.

@Samaldinho: Yes, I'm hopeful of the future, too. However, we must be very patient. The youngsters need time and we could not be sure if Berlusconi will spend big this summmer.

Our forwards can score, but they are ineffective against big teams. The true big teams we met this season were only Inter and MU. Real, Juve, Roma, Fio can not be count as "big" yet. So, this CF must be world class and very expensive.

(other "big" one, IMO are Chelsea, Barca, not many ^^)

We need a CAM like Seedorf, good at attacking, can hold the ball well and it is better if he can defend. With this requirements, there are many options, but Galliani mus be wise and hear Leo's oppinion.

Bonera is good RB. Abate has the speed, but his cross is average and he can not dribble or shoot, so RB could be best option. Antonini and Zambortta for LB is enough.

In the past, we played without wingers so the FB can overlap like Cafu, Serghinho, Janku are needed. Today, Dinho and Pato are wingers, we need back up for them more than world class FB. I don't know if Di Gennaro or youngsters like Verdi, Adiyah could. We now have only Beck and Abate for Pato. God bless Dinho!

Most CBs except for Nesta & Silva could be out: Kala, Fava. Gooch has long contract, lets him train with the squad to help them how to deal with tall defender
Astori is first team player, Diniz play 17 matches (started 13) this season, they are good for 3rd and 4th CB.

Paloschi does not convince me. He is too small, weak for CF. He is not fast, his only strength is the shooting precision. Could he play at Pato's position?

So, IMO, the problem is money for CF, the searching for backup winger, ACM.

Mate, you're constantly saying we're good and we are not.

Let me remind you:

In 2007/2008 we exited from CL because we were overrun by Arsenal's midfield. How could we create anything when they had 70% ball possession in both games?! And that's was Arsenal's midfield who's constantly killed by Manchester's and Chelsea's midfields over the years. Our midfield lost the legs, when Gattuso lost his legs, and that was start of 2007/2008. Our midfield seemed good because Carlo was very clever and he knew that he can't do a sh.t with 3 man midfield so he employed a Christmas tree with 4 and a "half" midfielders. If we had a striker like Dzeko last year, we would be great in that system, but that meant Ronaldinho and Pato didn't have a place in starting 11, so that system was abandoned.

This year, when we returned to 3 man midfield system, our midfield's weakness' are shown again. Inter raped us, Real Madrid totally owned us in the first half of the first game, we won because they've got tired too in the second (as they have the same problem we have), they owned us in the second game too, we luckily got away with draw, Marseille same thing, Inter second match - same thing. And Manchester, since 30th minute of the first match, they had like 70% of ball possession.

To mention some names, to complete my second to last post:

Dzeko, Zhirkov, Aquilani, Bonucci and Viviano, that's all, just to mention some names that crossed my mind today, that would fit perfectly in our system and we don't have to splash big money (more than 10-15 M) on any of them, except Dzeko. We can compensate some money by selling Huntelaar, Kaladze and Jankulovski.

EDIT: About Astori, I'm reading here time and time again that he's one of the best young CB's in Serie A and from the people who watch Cagliari more closely I hear that he's sh.t, they often lose the games because of his mistakes, and many of that people, even Cagliari fans, are wondering how the hell he is always in starting 11. Don't believe everything you read at goal.com!

Revolver, I respect your opinion, and still do. However, while I am not saying that Milan is just in need for Astori, Marcus, and Paloschi and we're fine. We do need some new players, but I do not think we are bad enough to need the amount of players that you are suggesting.

A lot of the reason why Milan struggles is not simply because of our midfield being old, that is a big part of it, I don't disagree with you at all, but another huge part is that, and this happens especially when Pato is out but also sometimes because he loses the ball in transition a lot, but when you have to support three forwards, two things have to happen: first, they (the forwards) have to be able to retain possession and second, be able to track back consistently.

Now, any midfield would struggle, considering that of our front three, only Ronaldinho really retains possession. That's why Dzeko would be such an asset, because he provides that option of really being able to hold and do something with the ball. We had more possession than Man Utd in the first game, we did not take advantage of it, and that was our biggest problem.

We need another midfielder, I think having Ambro and Gattuso for next year would be very good, but Flamini--Pirlo are starters, the issue is that we need another player to compliment that midfield three. Can Abate do that? Maybe. I think his crossing suffers because of the amount of running he has to do as a FB, because as a midfielder and winger, his crossing and penetration was much better.

I really hope Mancini can prove to be a worthy asset, because Verdi at 17, is a little young, and Adiyiah is an unknown quantity (like Verdi). But, again, I don't think that we need the revolution of 5 new starters. 3 new starters is really the priority, a starting LB, CM, and ST. And seeing how Antonini has played, I sometimes question if we really need a new LB, because he's impressed me this season.

With Astori, I have to disagree. I think he shows the mistakes that a 23 year old CB shows, and watching teams like Cagliari, is like watching a Palermo team, very inconsistent, and with Palermo's Kjaer being the next superstar, there are games (big ones) where he gets ripped apart. A big part of that is midfield tactics of smaller teams, another is the fact that, again, he's a young CB. CB's require intelligence and a great reading of the game, and I think Astori would learn a lot from Nesta. I don't think he comes to Milan to start, he comes to learn, and provide us with an option at CB so that Nesta can rest against Atalanta and Livorno.

To be realistic, I think big money should be spent on Dzeko and another midfielder, my choice is Anderson, as I think he could come for 10-12, considering he was bought for 17 and has fallen out of favor at United.

If Leo remains next season, IMO, this is our best starting 11 without signing:

------------------------Abbiatti---------------------------
---Bonera--------Nesta------Silva-------Antonini----
---------------Pirlo---------------Ambro/Flamini--------
------------------------Seedorf---------------------------
----------------------------------------------Dinho--------
---Pato----------------------------------------------------
--------------------Borri/Hunter--------------------------


Nesta&Silva, Pirlo, Dinho, Pato, Ambro/Flamini (active DM) can not be upgraded.

So with which player, our team will get the most stronger, in which position? Given that we have only one big transfer.

GK: Noway we could get Buffon, Cesar, Cech, Cassilas. Lloris, Reina, Frey will cost very much, and I doubt them would be better & more consistent than Abbiatti.

RB, LB: Maicon, Alves, Evra, A.Cole, Zhirkov can boost up our movements through the flanks, but their clubs will not sell.

CM/ACM (Seedorf position): No one could replace inform Seedorf, but the old, lazy, often injuired one, yes. A attacking midfielder who can hold the ball, create, shot and defend when needed is not hard to find. Players not yet sign for big club like: Hernanes, Krasic, Hamsik, Montolivo,... or players were not used and treated properly in their own club like: Van der Vaart, Anderson, Baptista,... cost less but there are more risks. They'll help a lot in diverting opponent defense.

SC: Let's him be Dzeko. He will go this summer, I think. If Man City sign him, get Adebayor. If Real sign him, get Benzema, Van der Vaart. If MU sign him (they will exchange Berbatov), get Anderson. Fabiano is not young. Adriano is OK. But the best is Dzeko. The pivot of all attacks.

So, IMHO, Dzeko first, second: Hernanes/Krasic/Van/Anderson/Baptista

Bonucci or any good youngsters in Serie A is good, but they can not take us to new level. Sign at least one of them. The rest will be call back players and some cheap ones.

This might be the last time I hope, as this is the best I can do beside calmly waiting.

Originally Posted by Aficio

If Leo remains next season, IMO, this is our best starting 11 without signing:

------------------------Abbiatti---------------------------
---Bonera--------Nesta------Silva-------Antonini----
---------------Pirlo---------------Ambro/Flamini--------
------------------------Seedorf---------------------------
----------------------------------------------Dinho--------
---Pato----------------------------------------------------
--------------------Borri/Hunter--------------------------

And yet people wonder why we are second rated and getting our asses handed to us by Man U and Inter. With that lineup, we deserved the 4-0s we had. No talent, no glory, simple as that.