Banter 2009/2010

While people blame Galliani (why, I don't know) I think really the question is whether Berlusconi decides that he is willing to spend money or not. That seems to be the deciding factor here, I don't think Galliani has a track record for wasting money when he has it, especially in comparison to Inter and Juve, over the years.

The idea that this team needs some massive overhaul only gets loud after a disappointing result. However, despite the miss from Abate, I have to say that I was happier with his first real shift as a midfielder than I was with his first shift as a RB. I think he's a very raw player, that will either serve a (important) Serghino-type function, or I honestly think he has the engine and work-rate to partner Flamini in our midfield in the future. Milan bringing in more players like Abate is one of the things that we need to improve the squad.

Milan being linked with random players, like Torres, doesn't embarrass us. I don't see that at all, if you look at the narrative, the "theme" that the media and people like to use for different people, clubs, etc, it just seems that everyone likes the story of Milan falling. Even when we are kicking ass, there are those who are determined to write that we are falling and terrible and that us being where we are was an accident.

Astori is bad because he's coming to Milan, if he was an Inter or Juve player, it'd be another example of who we are missing. I'm not sure if we get to watch Astori play against us next week, but, we'll get to see our boy. I don't think one game is what you need to understand a player, but, again, it'll be useful to paint a better picture of him as a player.

The funny part of many arguments against Milan, is that its really our defense is the problem. Even with the Derby games, we have only concedes one more goal than Inter, 28 goals to 29. If our defense is so poor, Zambro, Antonini, Abate, etc, why are we doing so well in defense? It wasn't just this year. Last year, too. In fact, the last time we had a really poor defensive record was when we were 5th. Before and after that, we have and still do have, one of the best defenses in Serie A.

So, what has been the problem? Clearly, our loss of points in the scudetto chase has coincided with our loss of our scoring touch. That is the big difference, and that is really at the core of Milan's issues and it really goes back to the sale of Sheva. Sheva, as a player, was not the issue; Sheva's goals were more important. That is not to say that Sheva wasn't a great player, he most certainly was, but, it was the scoring that he provided, that was luckily picked up by Kaka (for a little bit) that has made Milan what it is.

You can say "static" midfield, or that there isn't enough "hunger" or whatever. The facts are the facts. We don't score enough goals, and that's because we don't have the sort of production from strikers to back that up. Milito, Etoo, and Balotelli have between them 18, 10, and 7 goals in Serie A. Pato, Ronaldinho, and Borriello have 12, 9, and 9. That's a big difference, and when you consider how many goals of Milan are created by Ronaldinho alone, it brings into sharp reality what our major problem is: goal scoring.

You can talk about all sorts of other crap, old players, speed, static, Galliani and Berlusconi worshipping Satan and praying to Satan that Milan fans waste their money so they can laugh and watch Milan explode, but there is a simple fact here. We aren't scoring ugly, crappy, goals. They count the same, believe me, I've checked. You don't get 1.5 goals for a Borriello volley, its still 1. We are not scoring ugly, crappy goals, and that's because we don't have a player, like Milito, Sheva, etc who will just score. Half-chances, volleys, bicycle, tap-ins, whatever, just goals. Inzaghi has shown bursts of it, and if you think that Inter is just destroying teams every week, then you haven't watched Inter play. Man Utd doing that in the EPL is not the same, even Mourinho says that Serie A is much tougher, that top teams just don't come in and roll-over 5-1 winners over their "Wolves" or "West Ham" teams.

Even with Nesta out, our defense in Serie A has held together. Favalli has played very well the last few games, and I don't hear anyone say anything nice about him. Yes, we shouldn't be relying on him, but when Bonera, Nesta, and Onyewu are all injured, and Kaladze is as terrible as he is, aren't you happy that old man Favalli can still play?

Even with "average" Abate and Antonini who aren't "fit to start for a club like Milan," we have one of the best defenses out there. We used players like Simic, Pancaro, and Serginho as our FBs for long stretches when we were destroying teams a few seasons ago. So, don't give me this BS about those players being "bad for Milan," because Antonini has shown that he is a great asset to this club and has really played well. Abate, considering he's never played as a RB before, has done a great job. The numbers speak for themselves.

If you look at the amount of points we've dropped in the last few games, its not that we've concede goals, lost 3-4, or anything. We haven't scored more than 1 goal. The last time we scored more than one goal was in the 3-1 win over Atalanta in February. So, if you think the team is bad, terrible, bad ideas, blah blah blah. Go ahead, drive yourself insane with your convictions. However, if you take a step back, look at how Milan has actually played with drive, trying to win games in the second half, even with old players, you'll notice that all teams need that player to provide consistent, unfancy sources of goals.

That is why people want Dzeko and that is why we bought Huntelaar. Huntelaar was supposed to be goals, and so was Borriello. Turns out Huntelaar and Serie A don't mix, and Borriello loves missing chances. So, the more you are convinced that Milan should be beating teams 5-0 by the 30th minute, than the more you don't remember how teams win league championships. They are won and lost by ugly games, games you don't deserve to win, but win 2-0. Look at Dzeko's last game with Wolfsburg, Wolfsburg played like garbage until Dzeko scored two late goals, done.

I just hope that we can focus on what's really important, and also, realize that we actually have a team worth cheering for and that change, while slow and not to any of our liking, is still happening, and Leonardo is a big part of it. So stop crying and stop acting like we are Juventus, we're actually still a good team.

It's not being an "optimist" that makes me think this way, its actually me being a realist. The quicker we look at our team and realize what they've done and are doing, the quicker we can realize that the management under Leonardo and Galliani, has done pretty well, especially considering the circumstances.

@Samaldinho:
Pato (12), Borri (10), Dinho (9), Hunter (6), Pippo (2). All (39)
Millito (18), Eto (10), Balo (7), Pandev (3). All (38)
>>> almost even

But Inter has total 58 and we: 49. So other position of Inter scored 10 goals more than us. More precisely: only Nesta (3), Silva (2) in defense and Seedorf (4), Ambro (1) scored in this season. Only 9 players can score, to few for a team like Milan, while Inter has 13 and Roma 15.

Inter's forwards rarely get injuries while Pato was out for about half season. Without injuries, I believe Pato can score more than 24 now. He is the player that can score all type of goals and his off the ball movement & agility is enough for any tap in

Of course, we need CF like Dzeko, but that does not mean our forwards are bad. The problem lie on midfileders and fullbacks, they need score more. I once posted that the position we need the most is a world class CM-CAM, who can make 5-10 goals & 5-10 assists per season. Seedorf is a sub.

If Abate & Antonini play like this, they will contribute more next season for sure.

I agree Aficio, that scoring from other positions needs to improve. However, even in your example, you'll see something that is worrying. Five attackers are equal to four of Inter's, and one of Inter's [Pandev] only came at the winter break, would he have more goals had he started the season at Inter?

If you look at the way our system is setup, the Leo 4-3-3, its directed so that the central forward is the apex of the attack, while Pato usually blurs the line into a 4-2-1-1-2 sort of formation (if you get what I mean). This means that only Pato of our forwards actually has the class to finish the sort of service that he gets from our midfield, which, I have to say, is plentiful.

I think a part of the problem is that Pirlo doesn't shoot as much, and Flamini has yet to get a consistent run. I think when he gets to be a day-in-day-out starter, we'll see more goals from him.

But again, you'll see that the problem is the lack of goals overall. And I agree with you, that Pato is very capable of being a 20+ goal striker. However, I think he'd do this far easier if we have someone like Dzeko playing with him. I mean, what would be so wrong with two 20+ goal strikers?

I agree with you that our midfield might need another addition, but, I'm not sure that that is the major problem. Flamini finally taking over from Gattuso, and possibly Abate getting more opportunities in midfield, mean that I'm not so sure we need to really spend our money there. Especially if we keep our 4-3-3, its not designed to suit a CAM, that's why we play better when Pirlo is in the 4-3-3 than Seedorf.

Its not just this season, but if you look back, Milan has been really lacking a top scoring striker. Kaka filled in for a little bit, but, it's no coincidence that the last time Milan won the Serie A, was the last time Milan had Serie A's top scorer. Furthermore, since Sheva scored 24 in 03-04, Milan has not had a single player break 20 goals in a season.

If 5 of our attackers score as much as 4 of Inter's attackers, than we have a problem, don't we? Let alone the lack of scoring from midfield. But again, our biggest problem this season hasn't been non-striker scoring (if you count Ronaldinho as a non-striker) but its the poor finishing we've seen from Borri and Hunt at critical moments. Plus, you'll see that when a team has a real striker, like Milito, it opens space for other players to score, and I am sure that if we can get a striker like Milito, you'll see more scoring from other positions.

@Samaldinho:

Milan plays with 3 attackers and Inter 2, so my stats are not so decisive. Pandev came in winter but Pippo played less than him this season and Pato injured a lot. However, 3 to 2, I think Inter's are more productive although the gap is not large.

Pato is the best, if not only player can get through ball, long ball, counter-attack pass or just a good pass place him in front of 1, 2 defenders who he can beat to score. 20+ is not hard for him but if there is another who can provide this result, the effect is double, right?

Back then, I choose Torres over Dzeko because of his class. But Torres' rely on his speed & agility to score like Pato so he might hinder Pato somehow and there is no/little diversity. Then I think Dzeko is better.

I'm aware of top-scorer-lacking, too, but I still opt for CM-CAM idea, because:

1. I mean a box-to-box midfileder can move back and fort between CM & CAM then 2 DMs behind his enough to support him. Seedorf now is too lazy to complete the task, he plays more CAM role.

2. This player will share the responsibility with Dinho. I don't think Dinho can play this good next season, not only because of WC or +1 age but also the adaption of italian defense tactic. Kaka shone in 03/04 but in first half of 04/05 he did not play well because defenders knew his style.

3. I still believe in Hunter. With the help of Dinho from the left (assist), Pato from the right (divert defenders) and CM-CAM (both assist/divert), he can score a lot. I don't know in which aspect is Millito better than him, except for Serie A experience and the language fluency (correct me if I'm wrong). Only upgrade Seedorf and use Hunter more efficiently is better than only upgrade Hunter and use Seedorf more efficiently (how?), IMO.

4. Top CM-CAM player is easier to find & sign than CF.

We need a prolific CF, I can't argue that. But if there is the word "only", then I prefer CM-CAM or box-to-box attacking midfielder to CF.

NO doubt Milan need a top goal scorer, but those are hard to find these days unlike 10 yrs ago where there were plenty.
Midfielders will be the key for MIlan, as the mobility of the current midfield is just crap beside Flamini and Ambro when he is well rested. NOt asking for Pastore or Diego or even Gourcuff, but just someone who runs alot, make the quick pass and support the attack.

Everybody wants a 20-goal-a-season striker bt seem to forget that, in Hunt, we have just that. His hold-up play might not be the greatest, but up until his madrid move, his finishing was of the highest quality. He can only rediscover that touch if Leo has faith in him and gives him 5-6 CONSECUTIVE starts.
I feel the lack of goals should be blamed on the whole team. is there any law that forbids MF's and DF's from scoring? Take barca for example: last season thier 3 main attackers scored 100 of thier 156 goals. That means the rest of the team scored about a third of total goals. Not bad at all. So if the team steps up a gear, scoring won't be that hard.
I agree with Aficio that we need an AM that can create chances for the team, cos if you create enough chances, your team- no matter how profligate- will eventually score.

Just read that Torres rumor. Think it is great that a true SUPERSTAR is being link with Milan, but if according to the article I read-Chinese site- say, Chelsea will buy Pato for 80mil and in turn use that money to sign Torres for 40mil. I really doubt Pool will sell Torres for 40mil after Pato is gone at 80mil. Anyhow, nice read for a slow day at the office after the 7s tournament.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Just read that Torres rumor. Think it is great that a true SUPERSTAR is being link with Milan, but if according to the article I read-Chinese site- say, Chelsea will buy Pato for 80mil and in turn use that money to sign Torres for 40mil. I really doubt Pool will sell Torres for 40mil after Pato is gone at 80mil. Anyhow, nice read for a slow day at the office after the 7s tournament.

that means

Torres + Dzeko = Pato

sweat deal!!

Never thought of it that way.
For 80mil, I will even throw in Seedorf, Kala, Dida and Janku for free with Pato. That way it will make Pato's price a lot cheaper than 80mil.

Something to learn from before extending the contract of old and over-the-top players. €3.2 million thrown away...:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy...ontract-report

Originally Posted by kastriot

that means

Torres + Dzeko = Pato

sweat deal!!

Sounds sweet, but I really don't want to lose Pato. Hopefully there is another way to fix our squad, bringing in at least one of Torres and Dzeko.

Originally Posted by Arildonardo

Something to learn from before extending the contract of old and over-the-top players. €3.2 million thrown away...:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy...ontract-report

Why can't we just terminate the contract with the mutual consent like we did with Emo? This player doesn't deserve a severance pay after badmouthing his club/coach in public.

If he doesn't agree let's sell him as cheaply as possible. At least it gives us money no matter how paltry

the rumour of Torres coming for no less than €40mil is notr true, Liverpool are broke and need to sell a superstar to gain money, asking mad numbers like that wont encourage potential buyers that is for sure!

Originally Posted by Nalx

Why can't we just terminate the contract with the mutual consent like we did with Emo? This player doesn't deserve a severance pay after badmouthing his club/coach in public.

If he doesn't agree let's sell him as cheaply as possible. At least it gives us money no matter how paltry

Nobody will buy him, we can`t even sell without his consent. His contract expires in 2011. So we are obliged to give him 4 mil for 2010-2011 only. Plus I`m guessing that we have not payed out the whole contract this year yet. So part of the 3.2 mil includes some debts from this year too.
This sum of 3.2 mil seems like a mutual agreement btw the two parties.

Always take in consideration that if we have him next year we would have to give him 4 mil plus bonuses which for a team like milan should be around 1-2 mil.

Originally Posted by Kaka1899

the rumour of Torres coming for no less than €40mil is notr true, Liverpool are broke and need to sell a superstar to gain money, asking mad numbers like that wont encourage potential buyers that is for sure!

regardless of how broke liverpool is Torres will not go under 40 mil..thats actually around his Market Value price. Plus i`m sure that teams like Real,Chelsea,Barca will splash that money in a minute for him. Even us if we were in a position to do so.

Don`t get me wrong..If Xabi Alonso was sold for 35, Benzema for 35 and Wolfs asking for Dzeko 40 mil...i`m guessing Torress price could go even higher.