Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by Nalx

A bit OOT, just finished watching Arsenal-Barca and what a game it was! Lately there's been heated argumentation here about our team's effort (or lack of it), but I think even our champions should take some notes from Arsenal's players. Two goals down, two early forced substitutions, yet they never gave up. I shuddered myself to see such determination

I don't think Arsenals 'determination' is to be commended. It was as a result of the fluke first goal. if our opponents concede such soft goals, even we would be a team with determination! Arsenal were lucky, not determined.

Originally Posted by Revolver

You guys are expecting too much from Dzeko, that's the point here. You're expecting a player who's tearing strong defenses apart and want him for less than 30 M. That's ridiculous.

I think 30M is fair price for Dzeko as Bayern bought Mario Gomez with 30M when he was top scorer.

Originally Posted by Aficio

I think 30M is fair price for Dzeko as Bayern bought Mario Gomez with 30M when he was top scorer.

I don't want to play economist, but i think 30 mil is too much. Something around the region of 20-25 mil sounds fair to me.

Originally Posted by Nalx

A bit OOT, just finished watching Arsenal-Barca and what a game it was! Lately there's been heated argumentation here about our team's effort (or lack of it), but I think even our champions should take some notes from Arsenal's players. Two goals down, two early forced substitutions, yet they never gave up. I shuddered myself to see such determination

I agree, Arsenal had determination and they successed.
But I think we had determination, too.

The key was Arsenal has Theo Walcott, a player can provide another top class value. Match changed when he came in.

Seedorf could provide top class value in short time >>> we won Chievo.
However, when we start with as many player with quality as possible and the subs were almost normal to trash, how could we expect?

If we replace Pato with Mancini, we'll be stronger or lost half of attacking power?

How could we win Lazio when we have no resevered trump card, and relied only on Antonini, Abate, Flamini, Silva's determination. Silva has the quality, but running from CB position to approach goal and score is still too hard for him.

Determination is not enough without talent.

@shegs1157: You could make friend with Galliani

Originally Posted by shegs1157

I don't want to play economist, but i think 30 mil is too much. Something around the region of 20-25 mil sounds fair to me.

IT is really funny to see how you guys are rating Dzeko.

On one hand, some of you are saying he is the NEXT BIG STRIKER in the world that will tear up any League. AS he might not be the Ibra, Torres, Rooney and Drogba yet, but he will be in a year or two or when he starts playing for a big club. While despite all that, he is over price at 30M.

IMO, if he is really as good as some of you are calling him to be, the 40MIL Wolfs is asking is a fair price, given his age and his talents.
At 23, he will at least have 6 great years ahead of him(SHEVA prime years), about 2-4 more good years(Like Borri level at present) and 1-2 average years(Like super sub bench player)left in his career-barring any serious injuries and dental problems. Thus that's about 4 mil a year. Lets see how much money Milan had spent since Sheva left over the last 4 yrs on striker, Gila, RO, R99, Borri and Hunter. Even after the sale of Gila, RO and eventually Hunter, that would still amount to about 20MIL. On top of that Milan is still searching for another top striker. It really does not take a great mind to figure out 40MIL for Dzeko is a good deal.

before shiekh Mansour came to city, very few strikers were priced over 30 mil, bt bcos of him, and perez last summer, everyone wants crazy amounts of money!!

Just look at Zamparini, now he wants 50 mil for Pastore, what a ****en idiot. Zamparini is starting to act like Lyon's president did few years ago and still does. If a player can run and few clubs are interested he puts a price tag of 50 mil on the player. Crazy crazy

About Dzeko....
I actually think that if we can get him for 30mil Euro then it would be ok(even if in reality I personally think it's a lot, so shooting for something like 25mil is about right). We need a striker anyway so like you said (Gabriel489).....it might be a good thing for us to finally put money out there to try and settle that position once and for all.

But what guarantees do we have?? After all we thought we did settle the positiong with Gilardino.

So, having said that.....I think that the 40mil that Wolfsburg are asking for is absolutely NOT a fair price.
Dzeko is a great player.....and one with the potential of becoming world class and be on regarded as one of the world's best strikers.(in the same line with Ibrahimovic, Torres, Rooney, Drogba, Villa, etc.) BUT he is not there yet. There is still that ONE FINAL STEP that he needs to take in order to be in the same line with those guys. All those players I mentioned were where he is now, and they made that final step. So 40mil is a price for players that have already taken that final step.........and not for players that have the potential of making the final step (Dzeko). That's why I think that the fair price is more like 25mil and DEFINITELY NOT 40mil. Although like I said, I would be fine with 30 as well because the market is so inflated and we keep seeing crazy figures being thrown around.

So just to throw some numbers out there of players that moved clubs before they made the final step(i guess some of them are yet to take it or simply they never will)........before which they showed potential of becoming world class (like Dzeko), but after which they made a name for themselves which will be remembered for a long time (or in some cases, won't be remembered)

Torres - around 25mil Euro (A.Madrid to Liverpool)
Ibrahimovic - 16mil Euro (Ajax to Juve).....25mil Euro (Juve to Inter)
Drogba - around 28mil Euro (Marseille to Chelsea)
Huntelaar - around 22mil Euro (Ajax to Real M.)
Gilardino - 24mil Euro (Parma to Milan)
Van Nistelrooy - 19mil BP (i guess around 23/24 mil Euro?) (PSV to Man.U)
Mario Gomez - 30mil Euro (Stuttgart to Bayern M.)

-I put Huntelaar there because he was such a hot property in the world of football and he simply could not stop scoring. He was suposed to be (maybe he still will be, I am not saying i give up on him, but just stating the facts) the next big scoring striker in the world of football. And he didn't cost nearly as high as 40mil Euro. (what Wolfsburg is asking)
-I put Gilardino there because at the time that we bought him, he was the hottest property in Italian football. toping the scoring charts for two seasons with a struggling side like Parma. He bailed them out of relegation in the play-offs one time and pretty much carried them on his back. He was the all time top scorer for Italy at U-21 level. All that and yet he only cost 24mil.....not nearly close to 40.
-I put Gomez there because at the time that Bayern bought him he was just like Dzeko is right now. HOT in Germany and couldn't stop scoring for Stuttgart. Germany's player of the year in '07 and what not. Ironically he cost the most out of the whole bunch(yet still not anywhere close to 40mil), yet he has failed to find his feet at Bayern until now.
-Van Nistelrooy's transfer was a long time ago and I know times have changed since then and inflation has stepped in, but still I just had to put him there to show that the 40mil that Wolfsburg is asking for is simply ridiculous. And also, he is another one that back then was exactly where Dzeko is now.


So don't get me wrong. I am not saying Dzeko will not be as good as Ibra or Van Nistelrooy, etc. But those were just players from the top of my head......that at the time when they moved clubs and took a big step, they were exactly at the point in their career where Dzeko is now. Yet none of them cost nearly as much as Wolfsburg is demanding.
I would love for us to buy Dzeko and then witness him become one of the greats of his time. But if they are not going to go down on the price, then I won't be mad one bit.....because it's simply a ridiculous asking price.

Originally Posted by Bosniaco

Just look at Zamparini, now he wants 50 mil for Pastore, what a ****en idiot. Zamparini is starting to act like Lyon's president did few years ago and still does. If a player can run and few clubs are interested he puts a price tag of 50 mil on the player. Crazy crazy

Thats the kind of madness i am talking about! 50 mil for Pastore? Zamparini's dreaming. or just

Originally Posted by Bosniaco

Just look at Zamparini, now he wants 50 mil for Pastore, what a ****en idiot. Zamparini is starting to act like Lyon's president did few years ago and still does. If a player can run and few clubs are interested he puts a price tag of 50 mil on the player. Crazy crazy

He's planning to put that 50 mil buy-out clause on Pastore's next contract, which is underway now. He did the same thing with Cavani a couple of days ago.

We couldn't do anything about it, he's crazy anyway what with his comments and changing coaches like Dennis Rodman changing his hair color.

Sacchi rates Pastore highly and so does Braida. So if anyteam wants to acquire this kid's service, they'd better do it before the new contract is signed

A 50 mil buy-out clause is understandable. My apologies Zamparini, it appears you're not quite mad afterall.

Milannews reported that we just signed Gustavo Pereira (17) from Arbol Verde, Argentina after 2-week trial with the youth team.

Hmm, looks like our targets nowadays are either (almost) washed-up players or wet-ends

Dzeko is good but 1 and a half good seasons doesn't make you worth 40 million , ive watched him alot and he is very good will get better and there is some stuff he can work on Im just kind of sick how certain ppl he is a messiah and nearly lose their hard on if you don't agree that he is the best striker in the world....Dzeko Good Torres better.

Originally Posted by Nalx

He's planning to put that 50 mil buy-out clause on Pastore's next contract, which is underway now. He did the same thing with Cavani a couple of days ago.

We couldn't do anything about it, he's crazy anyway what with his comments and changing coaches like Dennis Rodman changing his hair color.

Sacchi rates Pastore highly and so does Braida. So if anyteam wants to acquire this kid's service, they'd better do it before the new contract is signed

Personally, I really don't see anything wrong with what owners like Zamperini are doing with players like Pastore or Wolfs doing with Dzeko. First, they actually want to make money and stay competitive. By having a high price tag on their star player, it means he will only be gone for a huge amount and with that money they can re-invest in two or three good players to improve the squad.

Originally Posted by nefremo

About Dzeko....


Torres - around 25mil Euro (A.Madrid to Liverpool)
Ibrahimovic - 16mil Euro (Ajax to Juve).....25mil Euro (Juve to Inter)
Drogba - around 28mil Euro (Marseille to Chelsea)
Huntelaar - around 22mil Euro (Ajax to Real M.)
Gilardino - 24mil Euro (Parma to Milan)
Van Nistelrooy - 19mil BP (i guess around 23/24 mil Euro?) (PSV to Man.U)
Mario Gomez - 30mil Euro (Stuttgart to Bayern M.)

Good stats but you really have to look at the year they the transfer happened and the amount of transfer of other players that year.
You also forgot Berba(30.8m Euro), Rooney(25.8m Euro), or Ibra to Barcelona, Benzema to Real, Adebayor to ManCity, Pato to Milan, and Amuari to Juve.

The other thing is, as I did not make it all clear, that 40mil or even 50mil will be a good bargain if Dzeko delivers the goals and improve Milan for the years
to come, like average 25-28 goals in all competitions year in and year out, help makes Milan into the 1/8 finals of CL every year and winning the CL at least twice while also a couple of Serie A titles. Of course if he turns out to be a bust even 25mil is too much. Point I was and am trying to make is that, a lot of us here are praising Dzeko to be the next big thing while at the same time these same people think he is over-price at 30mil. Which to me show that even them don't truly believe in Dzeko's ability.

Ofcourse it would be a huge bragging right if Milan can sign someone for 10mil and he turns out to be a golden booter for 5 yrs in a row....but reality is if Pato who Milan signed for 17mil or 20mil at the age of 17 with only 1 yr of PROFESSIONAL football exp in Brazil, then 40-50mil for someone like Dzeko is reasonable. Once again given that Dzeko succeeds in MIlan. I mean, if Pato struggles and is a bust, all of us will be screaming at Milan for wasting money on a kid who only played 1 yr of professional ball.

Now I am not a supporter for Dzeko nor his critics as I really have not seen enough of him to make any good judgment. What I know from watching football over the years is that being a successful striker is probably the hardest transfer to predict. As different systems and tactics will really have an impact on the performance of players esp. strikers.