Banter 2009/2010

Some reports are saying Ronaldinho is still in the San Siro on the left side and one of the guards is pretending to be a RB... Dinho still hasnt passsed him... More to follow on Gazzetta hour-to-hour reports.

A player that once again impressed me and actually convinced me that he will be one of the worlds best FB's ( if he already isnt ) is Bale! If anyone saw Tottenham - Portsmouth FA cup game then he will realise. When Tottenham was down BALE was the man to lead the whole team and actually took the ball and created attacks on his own. He made like 100 sprints up and down during the game, has sophisticated cross ( unlike Antonini, Abate, ODDO ), can actually think while he is playing, and has a leadership in him. Brilliant potential for a great player.

I remember Leo already spoke about him last year when he was injured but Milan of course didnt made a move coz Galliani doesnt trust our people.

Originally Posted by mrki

Some reports are saying Ronaldinho is still in the San Siro on the left side and one of the guards is pretending to be a RB... Dinho still hasnt passsed him... More to follow on Gazzetta hour-to-hour reports.

A player that once again impressed me and actually convinced me that he will be one of the worlds best FB's ( if he already isnt ) is Bale! If anyone saw Tottenham - Portsmouth FA cup game then he will realise. When Tottenham was down BALE was the man to lead the whole team and actually took the ball and created attacks on his own. He made like 100 sprints up and down during the game, has sophisticated cross ( unlike Antonini, Abate, ODDO ), can actually think while he is playing, and has a leadership in him. Brilliant potential for a great player.

I remember Leo already spoke about him last year when he was injured but Milan of course didnt made a move coz Galliani doesnt trust our people.

The Ronaldhinio part was funny.

Bale..hes young, but not convinced he will be world class. Having said that, I have never really watched him that closely. Two things I do know about him though are: 1 He is injury prone and would never be fit to play on the crap sansiro pitch 2. he is young, has potential and has a contract with one of the biggest spenders in the Premier league for the past few years.

Totenham wont sell, we wont buy and he will eventually go to City or Chelsea where he will be on the treatment table for half his life.

My only problem with Bale is that he crosses too much! What i mean is that there are times when a simple square pass would be more effective than a cross,and Bale doesn't always know these times. A classic example of this wrong decision-making is the FA cup match between spurs and Bolton. He had a good game, creating 3-4 chances, and was a real handful for Bolton. But the match wouldn't have gone to a replay if he'd passed instead of crossing all the time.
As for the injury proneness, Pato and Nesta get injured almost as often as him......
Overall, he'd be a quality addition to any team.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

First of all, Flamini was not 100%.
Secondly, if Carlo is still in charge, he would be using Oddo, Zambro, Janku and even Kala instead of Abate and Antonini.
More importantly, if Carlo is still the coach, Milan would be fighting for a CL spot instead of the Serie A title.

What title?! Excuse me, but I'm sick and tired of every second man here jerking off (excuse me for this) on Leonardo. What he has done? What title?! We never had a CHANCE! We can't beat Catania at home! Catania! And you're telling me that's because our squad is bad?! The squad we have at the moment, without injured players is good enough to beat Catania at home, I can't believe that anyone here doubts that.

We are where we are just because this Serie A is pathetic, not because Leonardo is master who turned a ****ty team into a title challenger.

You want the proof? Here's the proof. Last year, withworse squad, at this time of the year (33 games played) we had 67 points, which is, believe it or not, 3 points MORE than we have now. I don't even want to mention that it was Carlo's 7th season on Milan's bench and he lost authority in the team even before last season.

We all saw Leonardo's capabilities when Mourinho made a fool of him, or when he was "surprised" to see Ferguson playing man-marking on Pirlo.

Leonardo is a talented coach, with some bright ideas, but unfortunately he's not good enough yet to turn that ideas into something concrete. Furthermore, his team can't work at all without Ronaldinho. He may be great coach for 5 years, but now he's FAR from being good enough, not just for Milan, but for any of top 5 Serie A teams.

We need strong tactician on the bench. Just look at what Ranieri did at Roma. He turned the same team (plus Toni) that couldn't get into top 4 last year into TRUE title challenger, and most probably Scudetto winner. There are many tacticians like him, S.G. Eriksson, Lippi, Hiddink... all available.

Originally Posted by Revolver

We need strong tactician on the bench. Just look at what Ranieri did at Roma. He turned the same team (plus Toni) that couldn't get into top 4 last year into TRUE title challenger, and most probably Scudetto winner. There are many tacticians like him, S.G. Eriksson, Lippi, Hiddink... all available.

You call Ranieri a strong tactician? The guy is almost 60 and he hasn't won a single major trophy in his life, give me a break man. Why the hell is he a better choice than Leo? Because he's more experienced? So what?

Originally Posted by Revolver

What title?! Excuse me, but I'm sick and tired of every second man here jerking off (excuse me for this) on Leonardo. What he has done? What title?! We never had a CHANCE! We can't beat Catania at home! Catania! And you're telling me that's because our squad is bad?! The squad we have at the moment, without injured players is good enough to beat Catania at home, I can't believe that anyone here doubts that.

Man, is it me or you contradict yourself in this paragraph ?!
Didn't Catania beat Inter few weeks ago ?
And you say (and write it in bold) that without injured players, our team is good enough to beat Catania at home, we all agree I think, but didn't we have some injured players during that game ?! Do you remember Nesta ? Or maybe Pato ?

Originally Posted by Revolver

We are where we are just because this Serie A is pathetic, not because Leonardo is master who turned a ****ty team into a title challenger.

You want the proof? Here's the proof. Last year, withworse squad, at this time of the year (33 games played) we had 67 points, which is, believe it or not, 3 points MORE than we have now. I don't even want to mention that it was Carlo's 7th season on Milan's bench and he lost authority in the team even before last season.

Same as the previous paragraph ...
Your proof can be written this way, especially if we agree to say we have a better team this season (which for me isn't true): Serie A is better this year than last year, look, we had more points last season with a worse squad ...

And anyway, by watching several games sometimes (more or less often depending on the periods of the year), you can see each W-E that the level is higher in Serie A this season than last year.

Oh, and Leo, in his first year ever of career as a coach, has almost the same results as a very experienced coach ... Isn't that good ?

Originally Posted by Revolver

We need strong tactician on the bench. Just look at what Ranieri did at Roma. He turned the same team (plus Toni) that couldn't get into top 4 last year into TRUE title challenger, and most probably Scudetto winner. There are many tacticians like him, S.G. Eriksson, Lippi, Hiddink... all available.

You take the bad example ... This Roma team has been the same (maybe one or two changes regarding the players, especially in defence) since 2-3 seasons !! This team obviously had a confidence crisis, and Ranieri was just smart enough to stop this crisis. Tactically and even in the way they play, it's exactly the same team, with almost the same players, as what did Spalletti with that team !! Seriously, nothing changed, except this confidence "thing" thanks to Ranieri (and in football and more generally in sports, we all know, I think, that confidence is one of the main keys, you can have all the talent you want, if you don't feel mentally good, you will do nothing: the example of a player who was in Milan and who completely changed thanks to confidence is Gourcuff, and you can find hundreds of examples of that kind).

So when you want to "destroy" a coach, come with better facts and proofs, then we'll agree to disagree on things (or at best other facts or proofs will be given), but right now, I just don't see anything correct in your last post.

PS: About the Mourinho/Ferguson vs Leonardo part, Ranieri, the "master tactician", took a lesson against Deschamps when Deschamps was at the head of Monaco and Ranieri in Chelsea ... Does that mean Deschamps is a better coach than Ranieri ? But Deschamps lost in Marseille against our poor Milan (yeah, Leonardo did have the experience of 10 games at best, we had so many bad results, and we went in Marseille and won), and didn't manage to beat us in San Siro ... Does that mean Leonardo is a better coach than Deschamps ? And if yes, well, we have a problem, your "master tactician" is worse than Leo there ... and anyway, Ranieri was also beaten by Leonardo in Milan and didn't manage to beat us in Roma (they even should have lost it) ... Damn, I don't understand anything more there !! ^^

Ancelotti himself said ho surprised he is at Ranieri's success and put it down to him being a Roman and exactly what the Romans needed.

Ancelotti did good things with Milan in the CL a few years back, but his past 3 seasons in Europe have been a failure and that with sides that should/could have done much better.

Leonardo has made some big mistakes this season, but alot of them are more down to the fact that he has literally no options. The fact that were only 3 points of inter (who will win the league, as if Roma can keep this up) is much more than we deserve or are capable of.

To expect much more than what Leonardo has done this season, is unrealistic. Leonardo has been able to regularly call on 5 world class players this season: Thiago, Pirlo, Ronnie, Seedorf and Flamini (People can add Ambro and Rino to that list if they actually beleive these players are still capabale of anything). Anyway, from the 5 I mentioned only one is an all out offensive player. Come on, you dont win trophies when that is what you have at your disposal.

I was a fan of Carlo, but even I got sick of seeing the same old players play badly in the last two seasons. Leo at the very least has added a sense of competition and belief into the side. We may not be world beaters, but I would rather watch players like Antonini and Abate over players like Zambro and Janku and see how they develop over the next two years than watch the old foggies Carlo insisted on.

Whether, we like it or not, we are not a world class team, beacause we dont really have world class players who can compete against other world class players.

Originally Posted by Acmir^

You call Ranieri a strong tactician? The guy is almost 60 and he hasn't won a single major trophy in his life, give me a break man. Why the hell is he a better choice than Leo? Because he's more experienced? So what?

What a winning of major trophy has to do with tactics?! Ranieri is one of the stronger tacticians in the last 20 years, right behind Sacchi (untouchable), Capello, Lippi and on par with Eriksson, Zeman, etc.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Oh, and Leo, in his first year ever of career as a coach, has almost the same results as a very experienced coach ... Isn't that good ?

Very experienced coach, with 7 (SEVEN) years spent in a club, when NO players give a f.ck about him and what he wants (authority thing). I never said that Leo didn't do good job in Serie A, or overall if you want, but the thing that's annoying me is "he's fighting for the title, when Carlo fought for 4th place" and the truth is that we don't fight for the title, we never had a chance, and Carlo actually had more points at this part of the season.

For second paragraph, I meant without injured players playing, if I meant without players injured I would wrote "without injuries", simple English. So, with the team selection we have at the moment, we MUST beat Catania at home, yes.

And if you persuade me that Carlo had a better team than Leo has now, I will never write a post in this forum.

Let's see. We lost Kaka (30 games played, 15 goals, 10 assists) and we got incomparable Ronaldinho (31 gp, 9 goals, 13 assists, 5 games to go; 2008/09: 29 gp, 8 g, 5 a). We lost Maldini, we got T. Silva.
We got ready and goalscoring Borriello (25 gp, 13 goals; 2008/09: 6 gp, 1 goal), Nesta (22 gp; 2008/09: 1 gp), and Huntelaar (7 goals) for Shevchenko (0 goals). Furthermore, we got Gattuso, if anything, he's another option in midfield.
I know you will mention Pato, yes he played much more last season, but he scored just two more goals (it's still 5 games to go).

If these are not the facts, then I don't know what is the fact.

I forgot, to be honest, Carlo had to go, but I'm completely sure, that we would eliminate Manchester Utd with him on the bench. 100%. Bayern eliminated them, and they've made fool of us.

Revolver, i agree with you, but you have to put Mourinho near Sacchi.
A tactician is very different from a coach. A tactician would vary his squad and tactics, depending on the opposition and his AVAILABLE players. Leonardo doesn't change his tactics at all. Not when he doesn't have the right personnel for his 4-3-3. Not when the opposition is united or inter milan. Never. That doesn't work if you're not Pep Guardiola!
There's also the small matter of in-game changes. Leo hardly ever makes inspired substitutions, and his tactical subs come too late in the game.
In other words Leo's not a tactician.

Leo has a potential to be a great coach as he is a man who reads the players extremly well! Extremly well.

But Milan doesnt function even on that level. Leo needed some time to prepare himself for being a great coach. He never did anything as a coach, only as a scout. Mourinho was at Barca as an assistant, at braga, porto etc.

Leo is a perfect scout, who will most likely leave Milan now as he was used by Galliani for nothing. Not winning the scudetto with this crap team is not a failure!! A failure is the way club in runned and is being ruined.

And dont say how Leo cant change formations becouse our problem is that we are slawes of Dinho. 4-3-3 is the only way Dinho can play. He cannot play anywhere else. Coz of him midfield was exposed, Pato was player 10000% out of the place he needs to play etc.

To say also, Dinho had a good season while he was in the race for the WC. After Dunga said NO, Dinho played like **** again.

Leo is not educated ( to say it that way ) enough for being a coach of Milan. He needs experience and "school". Not everyone is Sacchi and Cappello.

Milan exposed Leo, ruined the scouting position and maybe our relations with Brasil clubs ( the future will show ), and in the end created a season in which we won nothing and created nothing. Some say Im pessimistic, but somehow in the end I was right. So maybe I was just being real, and not self delusional child.

And about Mourinho being so great in Italia - Inter could loose scudetto coz Mou made a mess in there in past months. They did nothing in last few months in Italy. Now Barca needs to beat them and I will pray Roma can do it.... and here you go " Zero tituli!"

And, since we talk about mercato in here, I can say right now that you do not have to expect strong Milan next year. Coz the mess they made cannot be fixed in one summer. Even IF we invest good, Milan will need 2 years to get back on great level as we were from 2003-2006/7. Huge money is needed, lets not fool ourselves. Our players are now shadows of serious european players that dominate in big clubs.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Very experienced coach, with 7 (SEVEN) years spent in a club, when NO players give a f.ck about him and what he wants (authority thing). I never said that Leo didn't do good job in Serie A, or overall if you want, but the thing that's annoying me is "he's fighting for the title, when Carlo fought for 4th place" and the truth is that we don't fight for the title, we never had a chance, and Carlo actually had more points at this part of the season.

My point was that the "Milan (and not Carlo) had more points at this part of the season last year" isn't a fact that can be considered here !!
Not the same team (later in this post), not the same situation (Berlusconi didn't speak like he does for example), not the same level in the championship (you say it's lower, I say it's higher), not the same coach (your authority thing is a proven fact ? And what about these 7 years ? Why do you write this way ? Other coachs have spent/spent more years in their clubs without any problem ...), ...

Originally Posted by Revolver

For second paragraph, I meant without injured players playing, if I meant without players injured I would wrote "without injuries", simple English. So, with the team selection we have at the moment, we MUST beat Catania at home, yes.

I'm ok to receive English lessons (I still have a lot to learn) but firstly, not in the way you tried to do it (the "simple English" comment ending your sentence is too much ...) and then, if you really want to give lessons this way, at least, write a perfect English.

"The squad we have at the moment, without injured players is good enough to beat Catania at home": You should have written "The squad we have at the moment, even without the injured players, should be good enough to beat Catania at home".

Now I see your point anyway about that, yes, our team was able to win, but we also have to admit that Catania did play well on counters, defended as a team and anyway, they are in a good form, so everything works for them ... Let's not forget we have an opponent sometimes and this opponent can do a better game than us sometimes, even with worse players.

And if the best teams beat all the teams they should beat, the only interesting games for us this season would have been against Roma and Juventus, we would have beaten all the other teams and Inter should have lost no game ...

Originally Posted by Revolver

Let's see. We lost Kaka (30 games played, 15 goals, 10 assists) and we got incomparable Ronaldinho (31 gp, 9 goals, 13 assists, 5 games to go; 2008/09: 29 gp, 8 g, 5 a). We lost Maldini, we got T. Silva.
We got ready and goalscoring Borriello (25 gp, 13 goals; 2008/09: 6 gp, 1 goal), Nesta (22 gp; 2008/09: 1 gp), and Huntelaar (7 goals) for Shevchenko (0 goals). Furthermore, we got Gattuso, if anything, he's another option in midfield.
I know you will mention Pato, yes he played much more last season, but he scored just two more goals (it's still 5 games to go).

- T.Silva this year is better than Maldini last year, we agree I think.
- Nesta has been there, but he missed some key games anyway this season (the worst is the one against MU ). He's no more been the unbeatable Nesta of the past anyway.
- We "got" Borriello.

- We lost Kaka', and we have no replacement for him. We didn't get Ronaldinho, Carletto had both Kaka' and Ronaldinho, he just didn't manage to use them together. So here is the major loss for Leonardo compared to Ancelotti, he didn't have the chance to at least try to make them play together.
- We got Huntelaar who can't be called a reinforcement for the team (maybe for depth) because he's not suited to the way we play.
- We got Abate that a lot of people bash here.
- Our midfield didn't receive any new player, so we have the same walking midfield (even if some efforts have to be noticed from some of our players), but one year older ...

So yes, Leo "has been given" 2 CD and a CF (special case for Nesta and Borriello), but he lost the best player of the team and got no replacement for him. The other players are about the same, but one year older. Wow, what a better team we have !!

And after Leo ( who clearly has a respect towards himself, unlike CArletto ), who will be our coach? Tassotti? Galli? Come on... master of puppets is a great song from Metallica.

Lippi will not lead a club without money. Cappello also.

I agree Geo, Kaka' was Milan, he practically carried the team himself. We cannot replace that kind of player easily. Maybe Fabregas

Hey Geo, you still here???

Originally Posted by mrki

And dont say how Leo cant change formations becouse our problem is that we are slawes of Dinho. 4-3-3 is the only way Dinho can play. He cannot play anywhere else. Coz of him midfield was exposed, Pato was player 10000% out of the place he needs to play etc.

For once, I totally agree with you ...
Our team nowadays NEEDS Ronaldinho as we don't have Kaka' anymore, he's our only valid option for creating chances (along with Pirlo but Pirlo needs players who move more), so everything has to be built for Ronaldinho.

Leonardo tried to use Ronnie as a classical AM with 2 strikers but Ronaldinho didn't manage to put one foot in front of another ...

So Leonardo has been given a team relying on only one player to create the chances, a player able to play in only one position, forcing Leo to use a kind of formation we haven't used for the last decade, and as a consequence, there aren't the adequate players in the team for Leo.
It's Ronaldinho and a bad formation regarding our players, or no Ronaldinho, a suited formation for our players but probably very bad results ...

For me, Leo didn't even start his career as a coach, he used his skills of scout with our players (Pato = the only player with the skills to be a decent/good winger, so Pato was used in this position), and used his skills to motivate and give confidence to our players.

Give some more players to Leo, of course players Leo want for his gameplan, and then, he will start the coaching career ...

When you're Mourinho in Inter, it's easy to change your formation depending on your opponent (which actually, Mourinho doesn't really do, when all his players are fit, he just uses the same formation all the time with Sneijder behind 3 "strikers", actually 1 CF and 2 second strikers able to go on the wings) as the guy has all the players he wants ...

geo come to the chatroom...

Originally Posted by mrki

And after Leo ( who clearly has a respect towards himself, unlike CArletto ), who will be our coach? Tassotti? Galli? Come on... master of puppets is a great song from Metallica.

Lippi will not lead a club without money. Cappello also.

I agree Geo, Kaka' was Milan, he practically carried the team himself. We cannot replace that kind of player easily. Maybe Fabregas

Hey Geo, you still here???

I don't think there is any player able to have the same influence as Kaka' had right now ...

We should build our team around Pato, which means starting to use Pato in the right position, but Leonardo simply can't do that now as he will have no player able to play as a right winger (nowadays, he would have Mancini, or maybe Abate, but by being honest, I still prefer Pato there than one of them ... ).

Our team needs a new cycle actually, and if we want to have again an amazing team, I would start by taking Pastore at any cost, more than Dzeko or any other player, and try to find another classical AM, less expensive, maybe a bit less talented, to be his potential sub.

If we do that, we can play again with 2 strikers with a supporting AM behind them and we would able to use Huntelaar for example because he would be near the goal more often than nowadays ...