Banter 2009/2010

i think blaming Leo for this season is beyond stupid its slightly moronic, Leo has given us 3rd place at least with a so so average squad put faith in player who were WC no hopers like Borri to be on the verge of going to a WC, got the best out of Dinho for most of the season and made him feel loved again also considering we lost 2 vital components in Paolo for the dressing room influence and the calming aura he gave and Kaka who even though struggling with injury often dragged us to results we didnt deserve, leo also has had to come with a pretty decimated squad of late without the key defender and the main source of attack missing he has done well to get results back, look at what Juve have and what they spent in the summer an they have done jack compared to what Leo has done with Milan! if you want to win week in week out and have a wonderful coach go watch EPL or Inter!

So who do we blame if not Leo? We're not city, so we can't blame the owners! MilanLab? Dinho for disappearing at times? Pato and Nesta for getting injured? Favalli? Abate? H11? Or maybe the goalkeepers! AND IF LEO FELT HE COULDN'T COMPETE IN SERIE A, WITH THIS SQUAD WHY DID HE TAKE THE JOB? And remember this my friend; In life, the only time you should make reference to those behind you is WHEN YOU WANT TO LEARN FROM THIER MISTAKES, NOT WHEN YOU WANT TO CONSOLE YOURSELF. remember that.

we can blame the owners it is there job to make the coaches vision a reality with the realms of whats realistic! with the economic crisis which has hit italy hardest Silvio has not had much to spend coupled with his job as PM and the scandel which rocked him for afew months this left us with Galliani to do the dealing, Leo asked him for a full Back (Cissokho) a midfielder (Hernanes) and a striker (Dzeko or Luis Fabiano) Galliani made a mess of Leo's targets and got him Huntelaar instead not the sort of player Leo wanted!

Originally Posted by shegs1157

I don't think the criticism is unfair. A little more than necessary maybe, but certainly not unfair. In the fickle world of football, somebody has to take the most blame if the team isn't performing well. That person is the coach. Besides, the bulk of the criticism is constructive.

It's completely unfair. It's like expecting someone with only a hammer to build the Eiffel Tower, it's absurd. Berlusconi's so called constructive criticism this season screams of someone who has lost touch with the club. The coach often gets the most blame but that doesn't mean it's correct. Juve are a perfect example, they sack Ranieri who was doing a decent job for Ferrara, who they proceeded to sack after they went into freefall. Quite frankly they're management's a circus and what you're suggesting is we would follow suit with Leo.

Originally Posted by shegs1157

So who do we blame if not Leo? We're not city, so we can't blame the owners! MilanLab? Dinho for disappearing at times? Pato and Nesta for getting injured? Favalli? Abate? H11? Or maybe the goalkeepers! AND IF LEO FELT HE COULDN'T COMPETE IN SERIE A, WITH THIS SQUAD WHY DID HE TAKE THE JOB? And remember this my friend; In life, the only time you should make reference to those behind you is WHEN YOU WANT TO LEARN FROM THIER MISTAKES, NOT WHEN YOU WANT TO CONSOLE YOURSELF. remember that.

We don't just randomly look for someone to blame if things aren't going well. First and foremost you need to find the source of the problem and then look for solutions to rectify the problem.

In our case there are a number of problems which generally stem from our lack of proper investment.

Milanlab does need reviewing as the number of injuries we have had are unacceptable.

So do the players, as we have a large number of players who have little to no place in the current Milan squad.

Quite frankly Leo is the least of our problems. As for why he took the job, I'm pretty sure he'd be getting more investment than he got last summer. I bet he like most of us was shocked to see only Hunter brought into the club.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

What knowledge are you referring to when you say that Sacchi had the knowledge that Leonardo doesn't? Also what evidence do you have to even backup that argument? If your argument is your questioning of Leo's decisions during this season then quite frankly, Sacchi was just as heavily debated through his coaching career, most famously during World Cup 1994. Leonardo has always shown a good understanding of the sport through his career (while he was playing and post playing) and his intelligence is considered one of his most valuable qualities. He's also one of the most experienced professionals out there as he's played all over the world with various ideas of the game. Finally, you just need to watch him as a pundit to see how well he knows the game. I've said this before, but when he was a pundit for the BBC he would often comment on things which other pundits didn't even see.

I'm sorry, but to say Sacchi's midfield wasn't world class at that time is somewhat of a joke. Donadoni was one of Italy's top prospects, Ancelotti was a top level DM and the others you mention were very good players. Right now, our midfield is no where near as good as that midfield lineup, especially given our lineup contains mostly players past their best whilst back then the players were nearing their peak. In addition, Sacchi had Baresi, Maldini, Van Basten and Gullit (just to name a few) available too.

Players did struggle with Sacchi's extraordinary demands (but they were capable of meeting them) and that's why they struggled in the early part. My point was Sacchi needed patience and he got it. Leo on the other hand has a group of players who can't meet his demands and until now has had to put up with frequent and unfair criticism.

I'm not denying anything you wrote in the first paragraph. Leonardo is extremely clever man, I agree, but he has no experience, and that's why I said he doesn't have knowledge. I said this a million times, he can be a great coach for 5 years, but now he's not good enough, it wasn't good for him to take Milan now, it would be better if he took some little team, Serie B, why not, Sacchi begun in Serie C. I'm afraid if Leo leaves now, we lost a great scout and probably, in future, great coach. Galliani made a stupid mistake here, or he did it intentionally?!

But, yes, Sacchi's midfield, player by player wasn't world-class in his first season. Donadoni was a prospect, you said it, Ancelotti was nowhere near top level at the time, he was even one of the main reasons Milan struggled at the beginning as he wasn't good playmaker, Berlusconi said at the time something like "Milan has a chief of orchestra, but he doesn't play the right tune".

Sacchi got patience, because he was OK to work with what he had, the only valuable player he added latter was Rijkaard (and what a move that was, turning a defender in one of the best holding midfielders of all-time). On the other hand, Leonardo, to play like he wants, needs whole new squad. Only 4 or 5 players meet his demands.

you guys are better in history than me, so i need anyone to tell me how much points have we collected (at the end of the year) in the last three seasons under carlo's managemnt .. because that would be a fair judgment over leo's performance .. p.s: i am still indifferent between leo staying or leaving

I think infact I know the only way to say Leo should go is if he gets transfer backing can bring in and get rid of who he want's then if he fails to do anything yeah say he isnt working out but he has not much to work with , the guy's are older than last year and thats another thing so many injuries they are old . Sure Pato has an injury and one or two others but damn old players are more prone to injury.
But back on topic without backing or getting 2/10 of what he wants you can't say Leo is a failure when he isnt allowed to do what he has planned.

@ KAKA1899, what assurance do we have that Hernanes,Cissokho or Dzeko/Fabiano would adjust to the team? That they would offer something fresh to the team? None, i tell you!
@ ACMILAN1983, please don't misunderstand me: i don't want management to sack Leo. I'm just saying he has to take a huge part of the blame. You complain about lack of quality reinforcements.
Agreed, but i think you should ask yourself whether or not THIS team can perform better, in terms of both the level of play and results. If your answer is yes, then we have to blame Leo. (I'm not randomly assigning blame. If you read my first post clearly, i implied it wasn't right. Ideally, the coach shouldn't take the blame all the time.But in reality, the coach is the scapegoat of the team. Its the way of football, we have to live with it). If your answer is no, and you feel in your heart and in your head that this team can't be better than this, can't be higher up the table, then i rest my case.
Then there's the small matter of H11. why can't Leo play to Hunts strengths?

Originally Posted by shegs1157

@ KAKA1899, what assurance do we have that Hernanes,Cissokho or Dzeko/Fabiano would adjust to the team? That they would offer something fresh to the team? None, i tell you!
@ ACMILAN1983, please don't misunderstand me: i don't want management to sack Leo. I'm just saying he has to take a huge part of the blame. You complain about lack of quality reinforcements.
Agreed, but i think you should ask yourself whether or not THIS team can perform better, in terms of both the level of play and results. If your answer is yes, then we have to blame Leo. (I'm not randomly assigning blame. If you read my first post clearly, i implied it wasn't right. Ideally, the coach shouldn't take the blame all the time.But in reality, the coach is the scapegoat of the team. Its the way of football, we have to live with it). If your answer is no, and you feel in your heart and in your head that this team can't be better than this, can't be higher up the table, then i rest my case.
Then there's the small matter of H11. why can't Leo play to Hunts strengths?

@ your sig

I thought supporting Milan was a privilege

Shegs those players would make alot of difference to the team! thats why Leo wanted them! Hernanes would work as amore dynamic Pirlo either playing deep and been used as a Regista or playing behind the strikers in Kaka's old place, Cissokho was needed as he had pace,was young and a LB! and we needed a strong mobile striker Like a Fabiano or Dzeko as well look what we have two poachers or a target man on the books that does not scream of veriaty! it is impossible to say they would have been a success or failure as we wont know but also to mention we lost Gourcuff before Leo was manager was a dent to the plan i would imagine also, i think your dislike of Leo has clouded your judgement somewhat.

Originally Posted by kastriot

@ your sig

I thought supporting Milan was a privilege

A stressfull priviledge!!!
@KAKA1899, the only reason i attack Leo is because he doesn't use Hunt well. I actually like him, i just like H11 better! Lol.

Originally Posted by kastriot

@ your sig

I thought supporting Milan was a privilege

Buddy He is leonardo hater #2, what are you expecting? LOL

i really have no clue what milan will look like next year, but things don't look promising. since supporting milan is stressful to some ppl i say they go support less stressful teams like barcelona, bayern or inter. we milan fans stick to our team no matter how bad they are, we criticize when its due but we never ignore facts. Bashing leonardo is just stupid

Originally Posted by mrki

And after Leo ( who clearly has a respect towards himself, unlike CArletto ), who will be our coach? Tassotti? Galli? Come on... master of puppets is a great song from Metallica.

OFFTOPIC

Speaking of Metallica, I'm coming to Zagreb on 16th of may to see them

Originally Posted by Revolver

What a winning of major trophy has to do with tactics?! Ranieri is one of the stronger tacticians in the last 20 years, right behind Sacchi (untouchable), Capello, Lippi and on par with Eriksson, Zeman, etc.

So what's the point of being a great tactician when you can't win a trophy, who needs a coach like that? The other names you mentioned have all won quite a number of trophies even though thay're tacticians so what's the problem with Ranieri?

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Geo, I said CLUB football not Int'l Competitions.

CLUB football is about being consistent week in and week out, while Int'l competition is about on form players.

Thanks for the explanation ... hum you made a statement about Lippi for clubs, but it was obviously done on what he does with the NT (and it's why I asked you to explain your statement) !!