Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by shegs1157

In this age and time, building your team around JUST one player, or even two, isn't very wise. That's another mistake Leo made. So please don't blame his performances on injuries to Pato and Dinho.

When you only have one or two (or three or four) players of that kind, you build your team around him/them.
Obviously, with the given team to Leo, would you have prefered him to build the team around Ambrosini ?

Actually, our next season team has to be done around three players: our CD (Thiago Silva), one of our midfielders (I think Pirlo can still be a key part of our team for 1-2 seasons) and one of our strikers, and no need to say who (for the ones still searching: Pato).

They have to be the key parts of our team, and so, we need to build each part of it around them ...

Originally Posted by Revolver

Don't forget Parreira too. So, no coach in the world could make Kaka and Dinho work together, and somehow "magician" Leonardo can. Funny, he can't make the team work in any other system than 4-3-3, he even can't beat lower table teams without in-form Dinho.

Guys, let's face it, Kaka and Dinho can't work together. Dinho needs freedom on the left, i.e. no player to mess with him on "his" side, he's a static player who never moves from his left side. On the other hand, Kaka is everything but static, in fact his movement is one of the best, if not the best, of all attacking midfielders. He's everywhere, right, center, left... And when he's on the left, there's a problem, because Dinho never moves from left side, he can't do even a simple interchange of positions.

Well, the solution could be to "limit" Kaka' to the center and the right of the pitch ... he tends to go on the left more often than the right whereas he's able to play on the right.

Dunga is anything but a good coach for me (NT coachs, the ones managing to win the major competitions are not the best coaches, they are the smartest ones, the ones able to say no to an amazing player, replacing him by an average one who will be perfectly suited to the team ... Is Aymee Jacquet a good coach ? He won WC ... Is Roger Lemerre, and I'm already smiling by writing the question, a good coach ? He won the Euro ...).

Read my former posts about Ancelotti and you will understand I was a fan of this coach, but I have to admit that after creating his Christmas Tree formation, mainly for Kaka', he never managed to change then (but to defend him, like Leo this season, he wasn't helped with new players). And it's probably why he never found a place for Ronaldinho in the team.

And Parreira ... well ...

THIAGO sILVA AND PATO ARE OK BUT I DONT HAVE FAITH IN PIRLO ANYMORE HE PLAY TO LAYZY.....BRING ON HERNANES
I WHATCH THE BOUTH GAME BETWEN INTER AND CSKA AND THIS 18 YEARS OLD LB RELYY IS IMPRESIV HE PUT MAICON ON PRESAR ......THE NAME WAS sHENIKOV I THINK....

Originally Posted by Milano84

Brasiliero,
Any chance Ganso moves this summer? I know he likes Milan and Barca and I think if Milan showed interest he'd try to leave like Robinho and others did on lower fee. I really like him for Serie A.

Imo, it will be more easy to buy Ganso than Neymar this summer. Neymar is a player for Real Madrid(I hope not, for his own future), Chelsea type of budgets. But Ganso will be more cheap... Let me get it better, less expensive.

Santos is having a problem with Robinho wages(they are still negotiating with the sponsor) so, maybe at the summer they will be obligated to sell one of then.

Also was he hurt lat weekend? I was dissapointed i didn't get to see him. Though Nemar, wow that kid, you don't need to be a scout to see assuming he stays injury free, he's a star.

Milano, you know imo Ganso will not fit in Serie A... It's just a personal opinion so, I'm not pretending what I will go to write here is a fact.

As I said in my first post about him, in ability terms he's once of a kind. But in the way he's being effective in games here in Brazil, he will have a hard time to translate it for Serie A. To be fair, his work rate is on another level nowadays. Playing in a 3 man midfield with another #10 and a CM, did wonders for his game, because for the majority of coaches in Europa, a #10 without work rate is a second-striker, at best.

Said that, and back to the game, he wasn't hurt, he just disappeared. In "kaka's father..." thread, I criticized him at under-20 WC because of it. He clearly felt the pressure at WC, and felt once again at the Clássico.

Here in Brazil there's a national claiming for Dunga to call up Ganso and Neymar for WC, but I will not jump on this bandwagon. Imo Neymar clearly deserve a look, but Ganso is still green. After the game against São paulo, you could see that a part of the press finally wake up about Ganso. The guy has potential, but the way that people talk about him here, you think they are talking about Rivellino.

I hope Ganso stay in Santos and lead his team in Brasileirão, to gain more personality. Do you Remember of Keirrisson? People(fans and press) were asking for him in Brazil NT(and Milan) last season, because of his amazing performance on Paulistão(S. Paulo State Championship), and I said it here, States Championships aren't reliable(besides the Clássicos) to evaluate a player.

To be straight, if I was the one in Milan to give the okay to Ganso's purchase today, I would give a NO without think twice. Neymar on the other hand, it's like you wisely posted... You just need to look some minutes and you see a future star.

Let's move back from Leo, Kaka, Dinho, etc, for a moment...

I saw a little bit of Chelsea this evening, and I must say that I'm more and more impressed with Yuri Zhirkov. He reminds me on Donadoni, he even looks like Donadoni. Seriously, he's fantastic going forward, quick, very intelligent (can "smell" undefended space), great technique, good control, good ground passing and crossing, lots of energy (in midweek, against Aston Villa, he made a 40 M sprint in injury time to make counter that led to the goal)... The only drawback is that his positioning in defense isn't that good, but he has pace to recover.

I'm saying all this because he's one of the best left-backs in the world attacking-wise and he isn't starter in Chelsea, it's a shame that a player like that sits on the bench, so we could buy him, we need side-back, especially left-footed, and we have good relations with Chelsea, especially since Carlo is there...

Zhirkov plays at his full potential as a winger ... he's not better than Antonini overall as a LB because Zhirkov can't defend.

As well as the player mentionned by Duco, I don't know him, but the question is: is he worth a non-EU place ?

Originally Posted by DUCO

THIAGO sILVA AND PATO ARE OK BUT I DONT HAVE FAITH IN PIRLO ANYMORE HE PLAY TO LAYZY.....BRING ON HERNANES
I WHATCH THE BOUTH GAME BETWEN INTER AND CSKA AND THIS 18 YEARS OLD LB RELYY IS IMPRESIV HE PUT MAICON ON PRESAR ......THE NAME WAS sHENIKOV I THINK....

Hernanes and Pirlo can play together...Flamini-Pirlo and Hernanes...Flamini
Hernanes and Simplicio...

Hernanes is a must for us...i'd add Sİmplicio to Hernanes as well...we need these kind of players instead Gattuso's...

Regarding Neymar,he is class...Andre,Ganso,Neymar.i'd take Neymar and Hernanes from there...add Simplicio to them...

Neymar is amazing Rabia, but with this type of money, I would go in another direction... I always hyped him here in MM, but after watch several games this season(the last one he was plagued by injuries) and the Derby against Sporting today, there's no doubt I would spending this money in David Luiz.

What this guy played once again today was out of this world(anyone watched Benfica vs Sporting?)... Quality, leadership, toughness, grinta... What a player!!

Nothing against Thiago, but David is on another level. Amazing! We(Brazil) are well served of CB's, but this guy can't be out of Brazil NT. How Dunga called Miranda, Naldo, Alex Silva, André Dias and not this guy?!?!?

I was reading some of my old posts, and I saw that I forgot to mention one thing about him. With the quality this lad has(dribble skills, control of the ball, pass, vision, confidence), he would be easily our best midfielder Looking for some footage in youtube, just found some amazing videos of his skills... The guy even put a "elastico" on a RB at minute 2:48 LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRHo1...eature=related

Also, look at this in the Classico against Porto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2oLm...eature=related

Long pass for DiMaria goal(he always makes this type of pass):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95xD30Oxpms

If I was "The Man" in Milan, this guy would be my biggest purchase this summer, not Neymar(who I rate REALLY HIGH).

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Also, look at this in the Classico against Porto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2oLm...eature=related

If I was "The Man" in Milan, this guy would be my biggest purchase this summer, not Neymar(who I rate REALLY HIGH).

WOW ! that was dinho's kind of stuff , does every brazilian footballer (even a defender !) know how to do that ? btw, his hairstyle reminds me of Coloccini ..

anyway, Im sure his price is not cheap now as he's been playing in Europe & proven his quality, as for me I would rather spend the money on a midfielder, Hernanes maybe... or worst to worst even VdV (IF the price is reasonable) would be very good addition to our squad next summer considering what we have now

PS. We can also consider to get those scouts from Benfica, they seem to be doing an excellent job down there ...

Zhirkov will be a good player to replace DInho but not Antonini. As like Geo said, he really does not know how to defend well. Putting him at LB is like Janku all over again.

I had been reading about this Leo's debate. Some say he has to be blame b/c he knew full well whats the team will be like when he took over, and that Milan could have play better than they are currently.....
Well, the thing is, how do you know that Leo knew whats Milan will be like when he took over. He probably knew Kaka is gone and Gourcuff might be too, but I doubt he knew HUnter will be the striker he would get and Cisskho got dental problems and now helping Lyon into the final 4 of CL.
The thing is that not a lot of people truly expects Leo to be in the hunt now(to me 4pts and 5 games to go, anything can happen) for Serie A title? I really don't have time to dig up old posts, but I am pretty sure all those who kept saying Leo is to blame now really did not expect Milan to win anything to begin with and that it will be lucky for Milan to even finish as CL place.
I admit that there are games where Leo did made mistakes which resulted in losing points but nobody ever mentioned how he managed to win games or win pts from his decisions. Look at both Real games, or the game against Juve or any games in Nov and Dec for that matters. Ofcourse you can always say, those games were won by the players instead of the coach......if so, then games can be lose by players too then.
If you are blaming coach for everything, then Carlo should have been gone in 04 after the Deportivo game if not then for sure after the 05 CL final. But no, none of you tends to remember those mistakes from Carlo, but choose to only see how brilliant he was in inventing the X'mas tree-documented by Pirlo that he wants to play deeper not Carlo's idea or getting Milan 2CL titles in 5 years-should be 4 in my book. Or how he made Kaka into the player he is today.......

Truth is that, it is very easy to point finger at someone and blame him/them for whatever that is happening. But why is there always need to be someone to blame? To me this losing pts thing that Milan is enduring had more to do with injured players and players not playing well instead of Leo's tactics. Well, maybe putting Hunter at RW is a huge mistake but since most balls(if not all) as you all said went through Dinho, you can put anyone at RW and still it won't matters. I think the idea was to have Dinho to cross the ball from left, then Borri, with his size, will crash the front post or center while drawing at least 2 defenders with him, and HUnter heading toward the far post for goal. That did not really planned out but the idea is there.
What annoyed me the most is the fact that ever since the 4-0 lost to ManU-where Milan got schooled, the team lost confidence. To me thats pretty strange as most of them are experience enough to fight through it but that have not been the case.
Stop finding people to blame, the team struggles, which all teams tend to do.

Originally Posted by edysupriadi

WOW ! that was dinho's kind of stuff , does every brazilian footballer (even a defender !) know how to do that ? btw, his hairstyle reminds me of Coloccini ..

Gilberto Silva say A BIG NO!!!
T. Silva started his career as DM and is very skilled, Juan also is skilled, but not at this level. David dribble skills are of forwards. Maybe he started his career as CF, I don't have this information...
Look at this against O. Marsellie last month(sp?):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RHsg...eature=related
Risk play, but you can see how calm and confident he is at the play. Always in control...
Coloccini hairstyle, nooooooo!! Anderson Varejão(NBA) is a better comparison

anyway, Im sure his price is not cheap now as he's been playing in Europe & proven his quality, as for me I would rather spend the money on a midfielder, Hernanes maybe... or worst to worst even VdV (IF the price is reasonable) would be very good addition to our squad next summer considering what we have now

PS. We can also consider to get those scouts from Benfica, they seem to be doing an excellent job down there ...

I'm all for get a mid too, but I'm talking about Neymar type of Money. Hernanes will be more cheap... as Jucilei.

Btw, with Hernanes we can rotate him and Pirlo(in the same game), and give Pirlo more freedom, since Hernanes can do the deep playmaker role easily.

Regarding Benfica scouts, they did a amazing job in David Luz case. David played in my city(Salvador) in the biggest rival of my team, and when I started to see quality on him, I knew he was already sold one week ago, and if I'm not wrong, for less than 6 Millions. Amazing job...

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Zhirkov will be a good player to replace DInho but not Antonini. As like Geo said, he really does not know how to defend well. Putting him at LB is like Janku all over again.

I had been reading about this Leo's debate. Some say he has to be blame b/c he knew full well whats the team will be like when he took over, and that Milan could have play better than they are currently.....
Well, the thing is, how do you know that Leo knew whats Milan will be like when he took over. He probably knew Kaka is gone and Gourcuff might be too, but I doubt he knew HUnter will be the striker he would get and Cisskho got dental problems and now helping Lyon into the final 4 of CL.
The thing is that not a lot of people truly expects Leo to be in the hunt now(to me 4pts and 5 games to go, anything can happen) for Serie A title? I really don't have time to dig up old posts, but I am pretty sure all those who kept saying Leo is to blame now really did not expect Milan to win anything to begin with and that it will be lucky for Milan to even finish as CL place....

Amazing post, Gabriel!!!
Sorry to cut a big part of it, but my post was already too big.

I don't have more will to discuss with people that are putting themselves as haters, it's like punch the tip of the knife. But you said it all. No one is covering Leo mistakes, we all("the supporters") are the first to admit Leo commit them... It his first year as a coach, and for anyone saw him as commentator at BBC, would know the guy can really see the game. Tactics also.

When you're not hating, you can see also the great decisions he did(and for some reason are omitted), as in Real and Juve games as you wrote. Another important point by you, when we started the season with this squad, I really doubt anyone would expect to be at this position in April...

With our squad, and this type of Mentality(find ONE scape goat), we will be a new Real Madrid, finding a scape goat every year, and losing every competition. I really can't see a good reason for this...

@ Geo, building around Ambro doesn't sound like a bad idea.lol!
Bt seriously, what i mean is that playing with a SYSTEM that suits most of your players is much more better than building your team around 1-2 players.
@ Lebanese, was the last part really neccesary? hw can a 'true milan fan' make such comments? But i admit i'm tired of being a milan fan. I've been tired for years. Yet i just can't stop supporting the team! Because i love the team.

'i love the team.'

Originally Posted by shegs1157

@ Lebanese, was the last part really neccesary? hw can a 'true milan fan' make such comments? But i admit i'm tired of being a milan fan. I've been tired for years. Yet i just can't stop supporting the team! Because i love the team.

Years??? I take from your words, u followed Milan after 2007, because if this Milan make you suffer than you haven't seen Milan late 90s. Anyway I respect all Milan fans but to bash for no reason is unfair...
You are not the only one who is feeling bad, maybe Milan to you is a football team but Milan for some of us is way more than this,

Cheer up, be optimistic and hope for better days.

Originally Posted by Revolver

I'm not denying anything you wrote in the first paragraph. Leonardo is extremely clever man, I agree, but he has no experience, and that's why I said he doesn't have knowledge. I said this a million times, he can be a great coach for 5 years, but now he's not good enough, it wasn't good for him to take Milan now, it would be better if he took some little team, Serie B, why not, Sacchi begun in Serie C. I'm afraid if Leo leaves now, we lost a great scout and probably, in future, great coach. Galliani made a stupid mistake here, or he did it intentionally?!

But, yes, Sacchi's midfield, player by player wasn't world-class in his first season. Donadoni was a prospect, you said it, Ancelotti was nowhere near top level at the time, he was even one of the main reasons Milan struggled at the beginning as he wasn't good playmaker, Berlusconi said at the time something like "Milan has a chief of orchestra, but he doesn't play the right tune".

Sacchi got patience, because he was OK to work with what he had, the only valuable player he added latter was Rijkaard (and what a move that was, turning a defender in one of the best holding midfielders of all-time). On the other hand, Leonardo, to play like he wants, needs whole new squad. Only 4 or 5 players meet his demands.

Experience is valuable, but it's not the same as being knowledgeable. Capello is a good example for Leo to follow, a coach who coached Milan without any prior experience. We took a gamble back then with Capello and we've done so again with Leo, and imo he just needs patience, as instant success in our current state isn't going to happen regardless of who is coach.

When Sacchi came to Milan Donadoni was a hot prospect and was on the verge of breaking onto the International scene. It's much like Pirlo when Ancelotti came to Milan (Pirlo had already shown a lot of quality in his career and during Ancelotti's first half season became vital for Milan).

Ancelotti may not have ever been considered one of the world's best, but by the time Sacchi had come to Milan Ancelotti had already captained Roma and won at least 5 trophies (one being Serie A). He was a well established midfielder. I don't know what you mean by him not being a playmaker, it was never his position.

Sacchi was ok with what he had because he had a very high quality squad, which was averaging an age of just hitting it's peak. Leo's squad lacks depth and the age of many key players is over 30. Our midfield alone is mostly over 30 (with exception to Flamini).

Originally Posted by shegs1157

@ KAKA1899, what assurance do we have that Hernanes,Cissokho or Dzeko/Fabiano would adjust to the team? That they would offer something fresh to the team? None, i tell you!
@ ACMILAN1983, please don't misunderstand me: i don't want management to sack Leo. I'm just saying he has to take a huge part of the blame. You complain about lack of quality reinforcements.
Agreed, but i think you should ask yourself whether or not THIS team can perform better, in terms of both the level of play and results. If your answer is yes, then we have to blame Leo. (I'm not randomly assigning blame. If you read my first post clearly, i implied it wasn't right. Ideally, the coach shouldn't take the blame all the time.But in reality, the coach is the scapegoat of the team. Its the way of football, we have to live with it). If your answer is no, and you feel in your heart and in your head that this team can't be better than this, can't be higher up the table, then i rest my case.
Then there's the small matter of H11. why can't Leo play to Hunts strengths?

My answer is no, I don't think the team can perform better. Too many players are past their peak or not good enough. Given the general consensus is the squad has overperformed this season suggests most wouldn't agree the squad can perform better. I'm not really sure what you mean you rest your case if my answer is no.

Also you rate Huntelaar way too highly.