Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by GeoTav

It's all about protecting your young players, taking into consideration the mental aspect of the game ...

Here are the reasons why Albertazzi shouldn't have started:
- a very important game (pressure)
- Palermo is a smart attacking team (did you notice how almost all their chances were where Oddo was ? Not only because of the level of Oddo, but also because they tended to play more on his side)
- the team isn't in a good form

These three reasons just tell you why you shouldn't send a young player for his first game in this one (except for injuries like with De Vito for Jankulovski).

The main problem is that because of our bad results, until we haven't secured our 3rd spot, we shouldn't send the young guys in the battle. If only we had managed to keep the gap between us and Samp/Palermo, we could have sent these young players on pitch without too much pressure and in big games.

So, you mean a young player should be given games when the games are not important more? So little thing young player can get from kind of games, not very different with friendly games.

Protecting the player is a weak alibi IMO. I believe that Leonardo is now more worried and tried to copy-paste Carlo's type to (always) rely on experienced players (read : old players) no matter how bad (form) they are.

That was the best time for Leo to use and test the Primavera player. I don't believe such a statement that an important game like against Palermo (important game but it's not Champions League Final) can destroy young players. The reason behind is that Leo was too afraid, just like Carlo (or probably more) IMO.

Originally Posted by Siregar

So, you mean a young player should be given games when the games are not important more? So little thing young player can get from kind of games, not very different with friendly games.

Protecting the player is a weak alibi IMO. I believe that Leonardo is now more worried and tried to copy-paste Carlo's type to (always) rely on experienced players (read : old players) no matter how bad (form) they are.

That was the best time for Leo to use and test the Primavera player. I don't believe such a statement that an important game like against Palermo (important game but it's not Champions League Final) can destroy young players. The reason behind is that Leo was too afraid, just like Carlo (or probably more) IMO.

You don't understand the point ... A young player should be given his first games against the weakest oppositions. That is also completely different of the friendly games, I'm sorry but playing in Washington in May in a friendly game and playing against Siena in Serie A is completely different: while Siena is a team we should beat, the game is still important as there are points to win or lose !! It's better to start our young players in these games than against Palermo in Palermo, against Sampdoria or Genoa in their stadium, etc.

And if you have the choice, give chances to your young players in good conditions, not directly in games you know you will be beaten or almost (who thought we would beat Palermo this W-E ?? And the following question is who thinks that Albertazzi would have changed the result - a loss - in this same game ??).

So this game was in my opinion the worst game to launch the first team careers of these young boys.

For the underlined part, that can't destroy a player, but just imagine the guy having his first game ever, he does a small mistake resulting in a goal and the team loses 3 or 4-1 (not his fault), what do you think the consequences will be for this player regarding his confidence ?

It's like that in all sports (team sports), I don't see why it would be different in football and especially in Milan.

I am all for young players and all, but I must say that you don't throw an untested young player in the Palermo situation unless you have no other valid option.
NOw I am not saying that they are only good for garbage time, but not against an in form team and in a must win situation.

Ofcourse, if the whole team is playing well, thats another story.

Truth is that, CB is basically the last line of defense, and since MIlan as a team is playing horrible, it is pretty stupid to play an untested 19 yrs old, period. Any Coach would have done what Leo had done. Remember how ManU got the injury bug back in Dec or so, where they had to play Carrick, Park and Fletcher as RB and CBS. It shows that even SAF would not risk playing untested young defenders. Then there is the case for Barcelona in last year final, where 3 of their 4 starting defenders could not play, Pep actually fielded two midfielders in defense instead of calling the young guns.

Of course you can say that CL final and against Palermo is different...but to me it is the same as it is a must win game.

Originally Posted by Lebanese

yes man, really with the team we had we should have won ucl for 5 consecutive years, 2003,2004,2005,2006 and 2007 no body was a match to us. i just wish ancelotti get to the final next year and lose a match like istanbul final, the russian mob will hang his head in london

This is interesting topic to discuss...

To start, first Deportivo shock. I think that Ancelotti carries whole blame for that. He was persistent in playing the same team all the time and that cost us. Our midfield was too tired. Pirlo started 39 games that season (actually he didn't start just in 5 games), Gattuso started 35, Seedorf 33... He had great bench at the time and he could use some players more. For example, here's some statistics (games started) for our cover midfielders in 2003-04: Brocchi 5, Redondo 4, Ambrosini 11, Serginho 10. Bare in mind we played 44 games overall that season. Another thing is, when Kaka came, our team became less balanced than with Rui Costa. Ancelotti used (than) alternative 4-3-2-1 formation (latter known as Christmas tree) a lot in trying to make our midfield more numerous in defending, and looking from this perspective (although many members here will not agree) it was good move, but it all fell in water because our midfield was too tired when we faced Deportivo.

As for 2004-05, same thing. We played even more games (Serie A got +2 teams participating), 51 and if you look at games started you have it all clear: Dida 49, Cafu 43, Nesta 40, Maldini 49, Gattuso 39, Pirlo 38, Seedorf 38, Kaka 45, Shevchenko 37... Even against PSV it was clear our team is tired. We scored three quick goals against Liverpool and we were literally wiped off the pitch in the second half.

So, Ancelotti is to blame for not using his full resources, but anyway, there's no perfect coach. His excuse could be that Serie A was the toughest league in the world at the time and there was no team would could play for both Serie A and CL titles in one season. For me, Ancelotti did great job overall. Just knowing he made a team that couldn't get to 4th place in Serie A into the best team in Europe for 5 years, with just one big transfer (Nesta 35 M; not so big during the time), tells a lot. Perhaps he could do more with the team he had, but he actually made that team. Imagine how "good" we would be if that Redondo was playing in place of Pirlo and Serginho on Seedorf's place in midfield beside Gattuso and Rui. It would be the same as in 2001-02 with Albertini, i.e. painfully slow moving midfield. Actually he made one of best midfields of all-time with just 8 M spent on Kaka, and 8 M was spent on Gattuso before him.

Sell Gaucho, Borriello, Hunter, Bonera, Zambrotta, Janku, Oddo, Kaladze, Onyewu, Roma, Dida, Storari



Sign

GK: One of Lloris, Marchetti

CB1: One of Kjaer, Mexes

CB2: One of Astori,

RB: One of Santon, Tremoulinas

LB: One of Criscito, Aogo

AM: One of Pastore, Kaka, Hernanes

FW: One of Jovetic, Krasic, Rossi

Originally Posted by slifersd

Finally read some good news about the team. Appearantly, Berlusconi secretly hired some outside marketing firms to evaluate the value of the team. It is said that he is definitely going to sell the team within 2 years. The successor Berlusconi picked is Giorgio Squinzi of Mapei Group. I don't know if this is actually going to happen, but it sure as hell beat anything I have read about AC Milan in a while.

That won't happen.
Squinzi is the owner of Sassuolo, he already refused and he commented these news by saying he wants to allow Sassuolo to be in Serie A.

Other news I just read: 2 defenders of Livorno could arrive in Milan, Knezevic and Bernardini. The owner of Livorno, Spinelli, said it could well happen as he had a meeting with Ariedo Braida about these players.

If someone watched Livorno several times this season (not only the games between Milan and Livorno) and knows something about these players ... just let us know !!

Originally Posted by k7r

Sell Gaucho, Borriello, Hunter, Bonera, Zambrotta, Janku, Oddo, Kaladze, Onyewu, Roma, Dida, Storari



Sign

GK: One of Lloris, Marchetti

CB1: One of Kjaer, Mexes

CB2: One of Astori,

RB: One of Santon, Tremoulinas

LB: One of Criscito, Aogo

AM: One of Pastore, Kaka, Hernanes

FW: One of Jovetic, Krasic, Rossi

Haha! And we will all unite on this forum and raise the cash!

But looks like Aogo will be coming which is a welcome addition:

http://www.tribalfootball.com/berlus...forward-798951

Just the last part of the article

Originally Posted by Siregar

I think that Albertazzi (or Rogmanoli) should play against Palermo instead of Oddo. Oddo has been always joke as right fullback lately and suddenly Leo choose him for the CB job. The worst part is that Leo kept playing Oddo for 90 minutes. The third goal was Oddo mistake. He shouldn't let Micoli have so many space (to shoot). Oddo also played not that good in the game before against Palermo.

So, when could actually a CB from Primavera player play? Until Pirlo followed by Ronaldinho and Dida have been tried to play as CB?

Too late, Pirlo's already played as CB a few times

About this whole Albertazzi debate, I think Leo's choice was fair (my reasoning is in the palermo match thread), but it's good to see that apparently Albertazzi made his feelings known. It shows confidence that he did so and it's a good sign of mental strength.

Milan da rifondare, Berlusconi chiede aiuto al Sassuolo

Aogo e Astori: la rifondazione del Milan parte dalla difesa.
La squadra più vecchia della A ha ingaggiato anche Yepes, ma adesso cambia strategia e punta sui due giovani: il procuratore del tedesco in città, forse già oggi incontra i rossoneri. Il 23enne terzino dell'Amburgo piace anche a Bayern Monaco, Genoa e Napoli. Possibile ritorno di Astori dal Cagliari.
(Corriere dello Sport)

"Milan ai milanisti".
Si chiude l'era Leonardo, scelto Filippo Galli.
Salvo ripensamenti a sorpresa del presidente Berlusconi, in panchina con Mauro Tassotti secondo andrà l'attuale responsabile del settore giovanile, dove sarà sostituito dal ds Mauro Pederzoli.
Accelerato il ringiovanimento della prima squadra: i baby rossoneri più quotati sono Donnarumma, Perucchini, Albertazzi, Romagnoli, De Vito, Strasser, Verdi, Beretta e Zigoni.

Intanto tornano d'attualità le voci su una richiesta di ingresso nell'azionariato del club da parte di Silvio Berlusconi a Giorgio Squinzi, proprietario della Mapei e del Sassuolo, membro del comitato di presidenza di Confindustria. "Non direttamente", spiega l'imprenditore bergamasco lasciando intendere l'esistenza di un contatto tramite intermediari. "Comunque ora sono impegnato a portare in Serie A il Sassuolo, che è mio al 100% e richiede investimenti di altro tipo".

looks like berlusconi is looking for some italian to buy 40% of milan, and this man is Giorgio Squinzi, he owns Sassuolo. he is also CEO of MAPEI, Chemical company around the globe. Squinzi said that he is focusing at Sassuolo because he owns it 100% and it needs investments in the near future.

Livorno president said that milan are interested in Knezevic and Bernardini, and he is having a meeting with braida today. WTF do we need them for?

maybe we need some crap and useless defenders to fill Kaladze's,Favalli's and Onyewu's absence...we just need one quality and young solid defender,we still planning to have 2 solid CB and 6-7 useless and crap CB...When one of solid CB's injured,we are dead...dont let this happen again and sign one solid and young CB...Bonucci...Ranocchia...David Luiz..

i know Aogo from German U21 and Hamburg...if we sign him,he will be definetely nice addition and will play in first 11,much better than Antonini...nice and sweet upgrade...
if we sign these kind of players,young and quality...i m happy...but keep them coming...

Anyone knows Cesar Azpilicueta?i read on a rossoneri blog that we linked with him as too...i dont watch La Liga much...all i knew is he is wing back...Probably a Right wing back...i'd rather to have Andreas Beck for RB...

Lazio's Rb is very good too...What do you say about him?Stephan Lichtsteiner?

Albertazzi is a leader,mentally strong...we just have2 young player who can be WC in the future,one of Albertazzi,the other one is Verdi...i dont expect Zigoni,Ramognoli or the rest can make an impact,at most they can be rotation players...

yet i dont blame Leo...cuz he was not tested...if he tested Albertazzi in Coppa game,he would play him...

we have many Useless CB,When we need them,they are nowhere,when we dont need them,they are everywhere,This is why Leo played useless CB's in backline instead of Albertazzi...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

You don't understand the point ... A young player should be given his first games against the weakest oppositions.

So after given chance against weak team the player will be ready for importan game? NO! It's about the quality (the mentality) of the player itself.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

That is also completely different of the friendly games, I'm sorry but playing in Washington in May in a friendly game and playing against Siena in Serie A is completely different: while Siena is a team we should beat, the game is still important as there are points to win or lose !! It's better to start our young players in these games than against Palermo in Palermo, against Sampdoria or Genoa in their stadium, etc.

You give an example of game that is still important. What I said is game that is not important (like Carlo used to do in Milan for young players, fielding young players in the last 1-2 games that were not important at all for Milan). So, no point to discuss Siena vs Washington.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

And if you have the choice, give chances to your young players in good conditions, not directly in games you know you will be beaten or almost (who thought we would beat Palermo this W-E ?? And the following question is who thinks that Albertazzi would have changed the result - a loss - in this same game ??).

I never said Albertazzi will make hattrick or will win the game. What I said is that was the best time to trust your young player since :
1. No CB available
2. no other DM or goodfullbacks available aka Oddo is a joke fullback (how could be he a good defender?)

Originally Posted by GeoTav

For the underlined part, that can't destroy a player, but just imagine the guy having his first game ever, he does a small mistake resulting in a goal and the team loses 3 or 4-1 (not his fault), what do you think the consequences will be for this player regarding his confidence ?

It's like that in all sports (team sports), I don't see why it would be different in football and especially in Milan.

It will be always same, if the player is weak mentally, he will be afraid to play again with the team but if he is a normal player regarding his mentality he will have more hunger to prove himself with of course supports from the coach is always important.

By the way,There was a player named Lulinha...Anyone knows what happened to him...His club was asking for 30-40m euros for him?Nobody linked him with us after Kaka's departure...his name was everywhere when we signed Pato...

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

I am all for young players and all, but I must say that you don't throw an untested young player in the Palermo situation unless you have no other valid option.
NOw I am not saying that they are only good for garbage time, but not against an in form team and in a must win situation.

Ofcourse, if the whole team is playing well, thats another story.

So, Oddo is valid option even though he has been always a joke as fullback (not only offensively but also defensively).

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Truth is that, CB is basically the last line of defense, and since MIlan as a team is playing horrible, it is pretty stupid to play an untested 19 yrs old, period.

It's more stupid to play a joke fullback as CB IMO.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Any Coach would have done what Leo had done. Remember how ManU got the injury bug back in Dec or so, where they had to play Carrick, Park and Fletcher as RB and CBS. It shows that even SAF would not risk playing untested young defenders. Then there is the case for Barcelona in last year final, where 3 of their 4 starting defenders could not play, Pep actually fielded two midfielders in defense instead of calling the young guns.

Don't compare Oddo to Barca DM. If Ambro plays as CB instead of Oddo, I agree but Oddo? That shaky fullback playing as CB? That was not right IMO.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Too late, Pirlo's already played as CB a few times

About this whole Albertazzi debate, I think Leo's choice was fair (my reasoning is in the palermo match thread), but it's good to see that apparently Albertazzi made his feelings known. It shows confidence that he did so and it's a good sign of mental strength.

Hahaha yeah, I remember that time. I didn't watch the game but read it (or listent to) the live commentary. It was surprising (a playmaker playing as CB).

I think, I haven't read your comments in other thread. I will check it.