Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by Rabia15

inter signed Mario Fernandes from Gremio.Probably they will add one of Ranocchia and Bonucci to him,then they are set in defence,considering Kolarov will be theirs as well...

Maicon-Luico-Samuel-Kolarov
Santon-Fernandes-Bonucci(Ranocchia)-Zanetti/Chivu

Look at ours;

Abate-Nesta(who's been injury prone,just think about last 2 years)-Silva-Antonini
Zambrotta-Yepes-Astori/Bonera/Kaladze-Bonera/Zambrotta.

just see the difference...Milan defence look like a mid table team's defence.

Don't worry, Yepes will play like Cap as he is mature and got tons of Serie A exps. Astori is the next Costacuta, while Albertazzi and Darmain will play like Bonucci and Ranocchia for Bari this season.

Originally Posted by slifersd

Wow, that excuse is even lamer than the ones Galliani and Berlusconi came up for our transfer market activities. He does realize that he won't actually be running on those ankles when he coaches, right? You'd think a guy like MVB has the intelligence to come up with something a little more thoughtful than this, but I guess not.

Not necessarily. Although I doubt that it's his only reason to take himself out of the running, a lot of modern coaches, especially ex-players, like to be actively involved in training. For example, Ancelotti when he was coaching Milan often took part in training matches and activities with the team, Pep Guardiola shows how he wants players to move and pass etc. by physically doing the actions himself (Ibra said this was a major difference between him and Mourinho). I'm quite sure Leo and Tassotti also take part in training rather than just tell players what to do.

If Van Basten intends to coach in this fashion, then it could be true his ankle could be a problem. However, like I said, I doubt it's the only problem he has with taking the job.

Also I often think Van Basten as a coach is often slated unfairly. With Holland he made numerous necessary changes when he was in charge by dropping much of the old generation (which were beyond their best) and bringing in new faces. He did relatively well with Holland too, playing a decent attacking game that was aggressive, despite not having anywhere near a great dutch side. He had his issues with some players (most notably Seedorf and Van Nistelrooy), but he himself admitted to making mistakes.

At Ajax the problems weren't so much down to him, but the state of the club as a whole. They have been selling their best players for years now without enough structure to build a new team. That was during a time when the Dutch league was more competitive (read: stronger) than it is at the moment.

Originally Posted by Reza

Does anybody know/have of a list of Bosmans this summer?

Couple of pages ago I posted a link with the bosman list!!

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Not necessarily. Although I doubt that it's his only reason to take himself out of the running, a lot of modern coaches, especially ex-players, like to be actively involved in training. For example, Ancelotti when he was coaching Milan often took part in training matches and activities with the team, Pep Guardiola shows how he wants players to move and pass etc. by physically doing the actions himself (Ibra said this was a major difference between him and Mourinho). I'm quite sure Leo and Tassotti also take part in training rather than just tell players what to do.

If Van Basten intends to coach in this fashion, then it could be true his ankle could be a problem. However, like I said, I doubt it's the only problem he has with taking the job.

Also I often think Van Basten as a coach is often slated unfairly. With Holland he made numerous necessary changes when he was in charge by dropping much of the old generation (which were beyond their best) and bringing in new faces. He did relatively well with Holland too, playing a decent attacking game that was aggressive, despite not having anywhere near a great dutch side. He had his issues with some players (most notably Seedorf and Van Nistelrooy), but he himself admitted to making mistakes.

At Ajax the problems weren't so much down to him, but the state of the club as a whole. They have been selling their best players for years now without enough structure to build a new team. That was during a time when the Dutch league was more competitive (read: stronger) than it is at the moment.

Yes and no on the Van Basten coaching thing.

I think he could have done much more with the Dutch team in Euro 08. As for his time being in Ajax, I won't say he was not good but like Leo, his team could not get the players or keep the players he wanted.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Not necessarily. Although I doubt that it's his only reason to take himself out of the running, a lot of modern coaches, especially ex-players, like to be actively involved in training. For example, Ancelotti when he was coaching Milan often took part in training matches and activities with the team, Pep Guardiola shows how he wants players to move and pass etc. by physically doing the actions himself (Ibra said this was a major difference between him and Mourinho). I'm quite sure Leo and Tassotti also take part in training rather than just tell players what to do.

If Van Basten intends to coach in this fashion, then it could be true his ankle could be a problem. However, like I said, I doubt it's the only problem he has with taking the job.

Also I often think Van Basten as a coach is often slated unfairly. With Holland he made numerous necessary changes when he was in charge by dropping much of the old generation (which were beyond their best) and bringing in new faces. He did relatively well with Holland too, playing a decent attacking game that was aggressive, despite not having anywhere near a great dutch side. He had his issues with some players (most notably Seedorf and Van Nistelrooy), but he himself admitted to making mistakes.

At Ajax the problems weren't so much down to him, but the state of the club as a whole. They have been selling their best players for years now without enough structure to build a new team. That was during a time when the Dutch league was more competitive (read: stronger) than it is at the moment.

While we can only agree about what he did with his NT (by being inexperienced), IMO I can also only disagree with these excuses about what he did with Ajax ...

The fact is that he failed to do anything with that team and the following coach managed to do something without spending more than MVB.

I also doubt about his personnality ... when I read what he said at his last interview in Ajax, and when I see this ankle reason + the "not ready for a club like Milan" reason, he just looks like someone who is afraid by this job. And by knowing that, I don't think he could be a good solution nor he could be up to the task.

Anyway, with MVB, there would be one positive thing: he doesn't care about benching a star player, even if he is called Seedorf, and so, as a consequence, several players could quickly ask to leave (the older ones).

But for this positive point, I see several negative ones: as I said, his personnality, then he doesn't seem to be a good man-manager and to finish, his past results and the fact that he's still quite inexperienced actually ...

So, MVB, go coaching some smaller club in the Netherlands for 2-3 years, do some wonders there and then come coaching Milan, but nowadays, no way he could be our coach !!

Like I said in a post before, I really think that there are now some indications that Leo will leave almost for sure, so it seems like our next coach will be Tassotti (I don't understand why they want to put two coaches together ? Galli would be his assistant ? I can't remember any winning team with two coaches at its head), MVB (no need to tell again I hope he won't be our next coach, oups, it's said ), or probably some surprise like Allegri or Spalleti.

Originally Posted by Gabriel489

Yes and no on the Van Basten coaching thing.

I think he could have done much more with the Dutch team in Euro 08. As for his time being in Ajax, I won't say he was not good but like Leo, his team could not get the players or keep the players he wanted.

I disagree with the dutch team. He had some good attacking players, but defensively his team wasn't strong at all. He played to the team's strengths but sooner or later the weakness would be exposed, which it was by Hiddink's Russia (another very good team in that tournament).

Originally Posted by GeoTav

While we can only agree about what he did with his NT (by being inexperienced), IMO I can also only disagree with these excuses about what he did with Ajax ...

The fact is that he failed to do anything with that team and the following coach managed to do something without spending more than MVB.

I also doubt about his personnality ... when I read what he said at his last interview in Ajax, and when I see this ankle reason + the "not ready for a club like Milan" reason, he just looks like someone who is afraid by this job. And by knowing that, I don't think he could be a good solution nor he could be up to the task.

Anyway, with MVB, there would be one positive thing: he doesn't care about benching a star player, even if he is called Seedorf, and so, as a consequence, several players could quickly ask to leave (the older ones).

But for this positive point, I see several negative ones: as I said, his personnality, then he doesn't seem to be a good man-manager and to finish, his past results and the fact that he's still quite inexperienced actually ...

So, MVB, go coaching some smaller club in the Netherlands for 2-3 years, do some wonders there and then come coaching Milan, but nowadays, no way he could be our coach !!

Like I said in a post before, I really think that there are now some indications that Leo will leave almost for sure, so it seems like our next coach will be Tassotti (I don't understand why they want to put two coaches together ? Galli would be his assistant ? I can't remember any winning team with two coaches at its head), MVB (no need to tell again I hope he won't be our next coach, oups, it's said ), or probably some surprise like Allegri or Spalleti.

A couple of points. For me there's been a drop in quality the dutch league in the last year, making it less competitive than it was. Van Basten during his time as coach of Ajax did make mistakes, this is undeniable, but the club has had problems in recent years and Van Basten's season at the club wasn't much different, both in his finish in the league and in the background (where there were political problems and a lack of consistency). In fact, this latest season is their best performance in half a decade by quite some margin. Van Basten wasn't a great figure for the club (Martin Jol has provided this sort of revival), but he wasn't a disaster for the club either, though like Leo this year he had a terrible start there.

I doubt Van Basten is afraid of the Milan job. He's a VERY confident person (so much so he could be considered arrogant). I think the ankle thing is part of an excuse, with something more behind this whole story than we know, maybe like the rumours that Galliani has other preferences for the coach of Milan.

However, I agree with your negative points about him. As a man manager by his own admission he is aware this is something he needs to improve at. He's inexperienced and therefore he will make mistakes, this cannot be argued against. That said, the same is to be said about all of those we intend to get. Leo, Galli and even Allegri are all inexperienced at coaching at the highest level, and like MVB will make mistakes in the job.

Right now I don't think he's ready for a club like Milan either (my original post was about the criticism he gets being unfair at times). That said, I said exactly the same thing about Leo when he was rumoured to join Milan last year, and right now I feel he's the best man for the job. MVB, like Leo, is an intelligent man who has a good understanding of football, so I do believe he's capable of being a good coach if he can work on his weaknesses.

About Galli and Tassotti. I'm sure it would work in the same way Leo and Tassotti work atm, with one as the head coach and the other as his assistant, but both working very closely together.

Tasotti is OK for the coach's job based on his experience but Galli? What Galli has done? He failed miserably with Primavera last year. Ups sorry, at least his team won Beretti (many Primavera players played in the final of Beretti's championship last year). I would go for Stroppa compare to Galli.

Originally Posted by kastriot

Couple of pages ago I posted a link with the bosman list!!

Hadn't seen it, thanx

Lets say, Lippi, Cappello, Hiddek, JM, RB, Ericksson, Blanc and whoever else you can think of, if B & G managed to BS their way to convince them managing Milan. Do you honestly think any of them can make the current Milan team into a better them than they are now without any good signings while two of Hunter, Dinho and Pato are gone. Heck even those players stay, I doubt they can get better result than Leo this year.
Point I am trying to make is that since Berlu is refusing to spend any good money on good players, no good manager will even want to come in and coach Milan.

Tassotti will be the coach for next season, and if he done well-like what Leo did this year, he will be asking for the same thing that Leo is asking now. Thus, he will most likely leave for another team with excuse like dental problems.

As long as Berlu refuses to spend, Milan will not be a power house and will always struggle to be in the CL spot.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Tasotti is OK for the coach's job based on his experience but Galli? What Galli has done? He failed miserably with Primavera last year. Ups sorry, at least his team won Beretti (many Primavera players played in the final of Beretti's championship last year). I would go for Stroppa compare to Galli.

It's hard to judge Galli as he has very little experience to judge him. The experience he has at youth level isn't really worth noting if I'm honest.

There's an interesting rumour about all of the recent managerial discussions on milannews.

http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=24499

basically, this journalist believes Van Basten will take over in a year's time which is when many players will end their contracts and the club can seriously consider rebuilding. I can't remember all of the contracts that end next summer, but if I remember correctly we have handed out many contracts due to end in 2011.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

It's hard to judge Galli as he has very little experience to judge him. The experience he has at youth level isn't really worth noting if I'm honest.

There's an interesting rumour about all of the recent managerial discussions on milannews.

http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=24499

basically, this journalist believes Van Basten will take over in a year's time which is when many players will end their contracts and the club can seriously consider rebuilding. I can't remember all of the contracts that end next summer, but if I remember correctly we have handed out many contracts due to end in 2011.

I remember something similar last season, where they said that we would rebuild in 2011. It would make sense since most of the 'deadweight' (ie Janku, Oddo, Kaladze, Zambrotta) contracts apparently expire then.

I don't see the point in bringing in MvB though. He's a Milan legend for sure, but he really doesn't have the results to back him up, actually it's gone quite poorly whereever he's been. I don't see it happening either after he rejected it himself.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

It's hard to judge Galli as he has very little experience to judge him. The experience he has at youth level isn't really worth noting if I'm honest.

There's an interesting rumour about all of the recent managerial discussions on milannews.

http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=24499

basically, this journalist believes Van Basten will take over in a year's time which is when many players will end their contracts and the club can seriously consider rebuilding. I can't remember all of the contracts that end next summer, but if I remember correctly we have handed out many contracts due to end in 2011.

I think, experience of youth team is worth to be used as evaluation since youth competitions have no big pressure for both player and coach. If someone failed badly with youth team fulfilled not with bad players, I can't believe he will success with a real club. Newbie coach like Pep Gurdiola still has done well with youth team before he took Rijkaar's position. Of course a good youth coach won't mean that he definitely will succeed with a club since the pressure and the level are very different but a coach that can't do nothing with almost-no-pressure and very low class competition doesn't deserve a call for real club like Milan IMO.

Originally Posted by Rabia15

inter signed Mario Fernandes from Gremio.Probably they will add one of Ranocchia and Bonucci to him,then they are set in defence,considering Kolarov will be theirs as well...

Maicon-Luico-Samuel-Kolarov
Santon-Fernandes-Bonucci(Ranocchia)-Zanetti/Chivu

Look at ours;

Abate-Nesta(who's been injury prone,just think about last 2 years)-Silva-Antonini
Zambrotta-Yepes-Astori/Bonera/Kaladze-Bonera/Zambrotta.

just see the difference...Milan defence look like a mid table team's defence.

Inter signed Mario Fernandes?!?!?!?!
How much they paid?

JUst saw the Brazil 23 men squad.
Not surprise Dinho was not there as they already have Kaka, Elano, and Robinho.
But no Pato and Neymar were stupid, and to me, i would add Adraino as he will give Brazil more option upfront with his size.
Then there is no David Luiz for defense, although I understand that the other 4 CBs are great also, but David Luiz can play as both RB and LB too.
As for midfield, I don't know why Josue or Kleberson made it but Hernanez did not.

Well....like i said a few months ago about Ronaldinho. It's clear that he doesn't fit into Dunga's idea of the game. But immagine that it's the quarter-final and Brazil is down 1-0 with 20 mins to go. Wouldn't you kill to have Ronaldinho on the bench then??? I know i would. Fact is that the WC is AT MOST 7 games and no second chances after the 3rd one. ANYTHING can happen even if you are Brazil, meaning that at times they can find themselves deep in the mud. (like the scenario i described above) And if that happens....I just don't think that Elano, or Baptista, are good enough to take them out of the mud. Ronaldinho (as bad as he might be right now in anyone's eyes) is a match winner in a split second with something out of nowhere. So no he doesn't have to be a starter as Dunga's got a good thing going on (results are facts and they don't lie), but it's ubveliavable that a player with the ability to win games in a split second isn't taken to the WC because of versitile players.

As for Pato....there is no doubt in my mind that he should have been taken. Again, why Grafite and no Pato. I know that they are different types of strikers and I can see an argument there. But my opinion is that Pato should have been included in that squad. Pato has done better then both Grafite and Nilmar on club level this season. Even though, Dunga is going with Nilmar because Nilmar has always impressed at international level and I can understand that decision.

Well, it is what it is. I wish Brazil luck, but I don't rank their chances too high.