Summer Mercato 2010

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

The size of the club is determined by its success. Not its budget. That is why so many players passed over Man City (Kaka, for one) and only when they got Mancini as their manager, did anyone actually take them seriously.

Clearly because of the political realities surrounding Berlusconi, it seems pretty clear that we are not going to be spending. I think its funny that we want a youth program like Barca's, but are not ready to go through the pain of that transition. Frankly, I like seeing more and more young names come to us, while not guarentees, I would love to see more players like Abate, Antonini, and Borriello playing for us.

Milan is a big club, its a team that makes quite a bit of money (top 10 in revenue) and other clubs aren't stupid. Milan might have a tighter budget, but they still have some money. I don't see the point of Galliani to pay over-the-top prices for players that have the post-World Cup added price. Furthermore, if clubs want to see us as being on a smaller budget, that puts us in a better advantage. Its the same negotiation skills that merchants use in bazaars and markets in the developing world.

I agree with the frustration over Milan's "revolution" always being "next year." However, 2011 really is that year. That is when those contracts we are stuck with actually expire. It seems obvious we're trying to move Kaladze, Oddo, and Janku but we can't. Fine, they'll be gone next year. Dida and Favalli are gone, and I don't see us resigning the terrible trio. Pippo still has some worth to him, those goals two seasons ago were great, and while he frustrated me this season, I have learned not to doubt him.

With Ronaldinho, Pato, and Pirlo; Milan still has that bit of star quality. What we were missing last year was stability in the back (injury wise) and the depth that could carry us through tough spots. Keeping Ambro, Zambro, Seedorf, Nesta, and the like aren't the problem, it's that we are relying on them as much as we are. Games like the Chievo game where Seedorf came up big, show that these players are still valuable. Scholes, Giggs, and Van der Saar provide that quality for Man Utd, for instance, the critical element behind their longevity is the reliability of their back-ups.

We are going to focus on youth, that's clearly the case. Last year and this year will be painful. Because we're going through transition, does anyone remember the dark times of Barca before Ronaldinho came? I do.

Plus, I don't see why you guys think debt is so awesome. Barca just had trouble paying for their players wages. Taking a loan out to pay wages, simple wages. So, no, I don't want that model. If it takes a few years of pain to get back to being healthy on all levels, then I don't care. You can't run a team properly without financial stability, the German clubs are strong examples of that.

While I am also frustrated at the lack of new players, I also understand the sort of tough position that the management finds themselves in, whether it was their fault or not is not the point, the fact is that they are trying to deal with it as well as possible. I mean, if we get a coach who has won Serie A coach of the year twice in a row, then grab a keeper on loan who might just be on poor form, and get an experienced CB who was one of Serie A's best CBs to provide us depth that killed us during our scudetto push, I don't see what is the problem considering that it is still July.

If a new stimulus is all it took to get Ronaldinho from dead-weight, to one of the major protagonists of last season, I think that Milan is looking on path for a strong foundation. I'm looking forward to more youth injected in, especially as they've been doing so well. I just don't know why we have to continuously yell and scream about the mess Milan is in. It is, but I think the bigger question is where this club is going long-term, rather than next month.

I don't know why we are taking the word of goal.com and others. I just see what is happening, and so far we have made a few smart moves, and I think we'll be seeing what happens. I just don't know why some random swap deals and made-up theories over Milan's deep strategy is being put forward by bored journalists, and we seem to love taking the bait and believing the worst case scenario. Until critical injuries, Milan was actually going after the scudetto. I'm sorry, its pretty clear that the problems are not as deep as many here think. That's the difference between us and Man City.

Fair enough Samaldinho , but if a club is judged on success then we have not been anywhere near being successful in 3 seasons...even last year we came good for awhile but I didnt ever believe that we would win the scuddetto just didnt have that feeling of confidence.

And youth is great but while Barca have been the best at it this decade just look at the quality of players they signed to blood in with the youth and not all for ridiculous money.
If there plan is not to buy players and just snap up promising young players and think that they will slot into the first team and we will be one of the best clubs around again then they are wrong.Its great if you can have 4 or 5 players playing a vital role for your club that are home grown but you still will have to sign players.And nobody here is talking about paying players 200,000 a week and paying 80 million for players.We are talking about players that at most 10 - 15 million and will be good additions that will make our squad and team better.

I see your point but I disagree Milan are no longer one of the top clubs we have not been past the CL last 16 for 3 years have not seriously challenged for any trophy in that time.Are constantly losing games to sides like Fiorentina Roma and Inter , our players look tired after 60 mins when they play , Guys like Borri Abate Antonini Bonera are only good players .Our youth team players some of who are 20 and 21 are still not good enough to play in Serie A that is not any good , if they want to try and copy Barca , then looking at guys like Messi Pique Busquets Bojan Iniesta Valdes Pedro Jeffron, we have nothing in our youth team even close to any of those guys.

Thats another thing those are the best Barca have produced in the last 8 years thats 8 players are we going to play with 8 players and no bench ??? Youth development is great but you stil need to buy playes and not overpay .

Anyway, I just thought about something ... everyone praises the way Barcelona works with their youth sector.

What would we have thought and said if Milan did like Barcelona did and will probably do again: letting Piqué leave when young and having to buy him few years later (the fee isn't known, but I don't think they just paid 5M), or other example, letting Fabregas leave when young, and now, look at how much they are likely to spend for him ?

Just a post to say that even the "perfect with their youth sector" Barcelona makes mistakes. So we should prepare ourselves to see these kinds of mistakes sooner or later too as we're newbies into the management of a youth sector.

Jay, still nothing for your bet !!
(Galliani must be in holidays ...)

Originally Posted by GeoTav

AJay, still nothing for your bet !!
(Galliani must be in holidays ...)

I still have 1 hour and 3 minutes .

REALITY kicks in... things are not looking good in Milan these days...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Jay, still nothing for your bet !!
(Galliani must be in holidays ...)

Official Galliani Denies Ledesma link.....Gotta go out Geo can'y find the link now CIAO......

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

The size of the club is determined by its success. Not its budget. That is why so many players passed over Man City (Kaka, for one) and only when they got Mancini as their manager, did anyone actually take them seriously.

Agreed, but Milan needs to rebuild before we can expect success.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

Clearly because of the political realities surrounding Berlusconi, it seems pretty clear that we are not going to be spending. I think its funny that we want a youth program like Barca's, but are not ready to go through the pain of that transition. Frankly, I like seeing more and more young names come to us, while not guarentees, I would love to see more players like Abate, Antonini, and Borriello playing for us.

I agree as I've stated in the past it would be a dream to see more youth players coming through to the first team. However, we must be realistic and be aware that we're still probably about 5 years away before many of our youth players are likely to play an important role in the club (most are in their late teens and unfortunately not everyone is Pato).

We need to invest in the generation that will play for the club in between the current generation and the generation where we actually get to reap the rewards of our youth setup, and even then we will still need to invest, as it's very rare to see teams have the majority of their team made up of youth players.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

Milan is a big club, its a team that makes quite a bit of money (top 10 in revenue) and other clubs aren't stupid. Milan might have a tighter budget, but they still have some money. I don't see the point of Galliani to pay over-the-top prices for players that have the post-World Cup added price. Furthermore, if clubs want to see us as being on a smaller budget, that puts us in a better advantage. Its the same negotiation skills that merchants use in bazaars and markets in the developing world.

The argument you put forward here is sound, but only has any real value if we see some actual investment in the mercato. Unfortunately, given what we've witnessed in recent years and the sounds coming out of the club, this seems quite unlikely at this point in time.

In addition, it's important to note that even when we've had money, poor management has led to flittering it away. The contracts we've offerered are ludicrous and some of the purchases made were either unnecessary or poor (e.g. Oliveira, Viudez, Cardaccio, Brazilian fullback whose name I can't remember, Onyewu and I'd also add Ronaldo and Ronaldinho to the list).

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

I agree with the frustration over Milan's "revolution" always being "next year." However, 2011 really is that year. That is when those contracts we are stuck with actually expire. It seems obvious we're trying to move Kaladze, Oddo, and Janku but we can't. Fine, they'll be gone next year. Dida and Favalli are gone, and I don't see us resigning the terrible trio. Pippo still has some worth to him, those goals two seasons ago were great, and while he frustrated me this season, I have learned not to doubt him.

I agree 2011 is a huge year for us, as we will have the chance to really see the old generation finally being replaced. My worry is are we leaving too much work for one summer. It's not just replacing older players that we need to worry about, but building the squad to compete for the next 5 years or so.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

With Ronaldinho, Pato, and Pirlo; Milan still has that bit of star quality. What we were missing last year was stability in the back (injury wise) and the depth that could carry us through tough spots. Keeping Ambro, Zambro, Seedorf, Nesta, and the like aren't the problem, it's that we are relying on them as much as we are. Games like the Chievo game where Seedorf came up big, show that these players are still valuable. Scholes, Giggs, and Van der Saar provide that quality for Man Utd, for instance, the critical element behind their longevity is the reliability of their back-ups.

You've hit exactly where our problem is here. Besides Pato, every star name you mention there is over 30, with the majority being in their mid-30s. We have "champions" over 30, and we have potential future stars around 20, but we have only really got Thiago as a champion player who we can rely on for the next 5 or so years (maybe Pato, but he shouldn't be burdened with such pressure imo).

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

We are going to focus on youth, that's clearly the case. Last year and this year will be painful. Because we're going through transition, does anyone remember the dark times of Barca before Ronaldinho came? I do.

Plus, I don't see why you guys think debt is so awesome. Barca just had trouble paying for their players wages. Taking a loan out to pay wages, simple wages. So, no, I don't want that model. If it takes a few years of pain to get back to being healthy on all levels, then I don't care. You can't run a team properly without financial stability, the German clubs are strong examples of that.

Agree with you in principle. However, our management has acted far too late and made this transition extremely difficult and risky. Maldini has said that Milan should have rejuvenated after the 2007 CL win, which was now 3 years ago and we've done very little.

I said years ago on this forum that our transition to youth should begin immediately with continuing investment (even in cut down form) in the first team until we can see the results of the youth. This gradual transition would make the change much less risky and manageable. It's simply a massive bet to just go cold turkey as the club has done.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

While I am also frustrated at the lack of new players, I also understand the sort of tough position that the management finds themselves in, whether it was their fault or not is not the point, the fact is that they are trying to deal with it as well as possible. I mean, if we get a coach who has won Serie A coach of the year twice in a row, then grab a keeper on loan who might just be on poor form, and get an experienced CB who was one of Serie A's best CBs to provide us depth that killed us during our scudetto push, I don't see what is the problem considering that it is still July.

I think it is important whether the club's situation is the management's fault. They are supposed to be experts in this field and haven't acted appropriately. The fact is, if their gamble fails then the club's future won't be what we've come to expect. We shouldn't really be in this situation, and quite honestly fans have every right to be angry given what's led to us being here.

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

If a new stimulus is all it took to get Ronaldinho from dead-weight, to one of the major protagonists of last season, I think that Milan is looking on path for a strong foundation. I'm looking forward to more youth injected in, especially as they've been doing so well. I just don't know why we have to continuously yell and scream about the mess Milan is in. It is, but I think the bigger question is where this club is going long-term, rather than next month.

I don't know why we are taking the word of goal.com and others. I just see what is happening, and so far we have made a few smart moves, and I think we'll be seeing what happens. I just don't know why some random swap deals and made-up theories over Milan's deep strategy is being put forward by bored journalists, and we seem to love taking the bait and believing the worst case scenario. Until critical injuries, Milan was actually going after the scudetto. I'm sorry, its pretty clear that the problems are not as deep as many here think. That's the difference between us and Man City.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you have to say. However, I do also think you're letting off the management too lightly in your comments when in reality, they have been really poor in recent years.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Anyway, I just thought about something ... everyone praises the way Barcelona works with their youth sector.

What would we have thought and said if Milan did like Barcelona did and will probably do again: letting Piqué leave when young and having to buy him few years later (the fee isn't known, but I don't think they just paid 5M), or other example, letting Fabregas leave when young, and now, look at how much they are likely to spend for him ?

Just a post to say that even the "perfect with their youth sector" Barcelona makes mistakes. So we should prepare ourselves to see these kinds of mistakes sooner or later too as we're newbies into the management of a youth sector.

Jay, still nothing for your bet !!
(Galliani must be in holidays ...)

Were those 'players' not stolen from Barca? I may be wrong, but they couldnt be signed to contracts as they were under 18 and hence Man U and Arsenal offered big money (to them) contracts. I dont think Barca could have done anything about the situation.

Originally Posted by K77SH C

Were those 'players' not stolen from Barca? I may be wrong, but they couldnt be signed to contracts as they were under 18 and hence Man U and Arsenal offered big money (to them) contracts. I dont think Barca could have done anything about the situation.

Which means that Arsenal and Manchester United believed in these young players more than Barcelona as Barcelona could have given them some more money to stay too ? So IMO, it's a kind of mistake by Barcelona as they didn't notice the talent of their own young players when other clubs did ...

My point is that we should prepare ourselves to see some mistakes from our club too with the youth sector (not this mistake of letting players leave as the rule changed, clubs can't "steal" anymore players who are under 18 if I'm not wrong). Some money is surely going to be wasted, which won't be a problem if we manage to have some players like Pedro or Iniesta emerging from our youth sector at the same time: if we can't manage to have some good/very good players emerging from our youth sector, it's just going to be wasted money and nothing else.

I hope they are aware about that.

You may be right, Im no expert on the issue. But Barca couldn't legally offer the players contracts - and contracts made in secret can't be enforced because noone should know about them.

Lazio were fuming when they lost Mecheda, there are many other examples. The laws work in favour of English clubs and against Italian and Spanish.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Which means that Arsenal and Manchester United believed in these young players more than Barcelona as Barcelona could have given them some more money to stay too ? So IMO, it's a kind of mistake by Barcelona as they didn't notice the talent of their own young players when other clubs did ...

My point is that we should prepare ourselves to see some mistakes from our club too with the youth sector (not this mistake of letting players leave as the rule changed, clubs can't "steal" anymore players who are under 18 if I'm not wrong). Some money is surely going to be wasted, which won't be a problem if we manage to have some players like Pedro or Iniesta emerging from our youth sector at the same time: if we can't manage to have some good/very good players emerging from our youth sector, it's just going to be wasted money and nothing else.

I hope they are aware about that.

They couldn't sign contracts at their ages in clubs in Spain, Italy etc, whereas the non-development country of england can offer them contracts from 16.

The rule hasn't changed but now the sterasling club will have to pay a lump sum t get the player even if said player could be worth 20 million in the next 3-5 years.

Originally Posted by Tony75

They couldn't sign contracts at their ages in clubs in Spain, Italy etc, whereas the non-development country of england can offer them contracts from 16.

The rule hasn't changed but now the sterasling club will have to pay a lump sum t get the player even if said player could be worth 20 million in the next 3-5 years.

Didn't UEFA make a rule about clubs being forbidden to offer contracts to U18 players of other countries to avoid that ? I thought it was planned, but I don't know if it was only rumours, if it was done or if it was cancelled.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Didn't UEFA make a rule about clubs being forbidden to offer contracts to U18 players of other countries to avoid that ? I thought it was planned, but I don't know if it was only rumours, if it was done or if it was cancelled.

Nope, pretty sure they didn't.

The English end up hurting themselfs though. It's clear that when non-English players push English players out of the best football acadamies, then it's gonna affact the number of good English players.

If the English FA really wanted to do something about the English NT then they'd do like Spain and Italy and not allow this kinda poaching.

News from Brazil:
Just to let you guys know that Flamengo and Palmeiras are real hard on Ronaldinho. He is in Rio having fun with Romario old son and 3 more girls.

Don't worry, just normal fun...

But yesterday (if I'm not wrong), he had a dinner with Flamengo President(Patricia Amorim), and Palmeiras president(L. Gonzaga Belluzo) is working in a deal with 3 companies to pay Ronaldinho's wages...

I hope he stays in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

News from Brazil:
Just to let you guys know that Flamengo and Palmeiras are real hard on Ronaldinho. He is in Rio having fun with Romario old son and 3 more girls.

Don't worry, just normal fun...

But yesterday (if I'm not wrong), he had a dinner with Flamengo President(Patricia Amorim), and Palmeiras president(L. Gonzaga Belluzo) is working in a deal with 3 companies to pay Ronaldinho's wages...

I hope he stays in Brazil.

Perhaps he will stay.But it just means we will be down our most creative player as well you know it wont be put back into our team...Ronaldinho might leave for 10 million and we will save 9 million in wages but maybe at best Ledesma will come in for 6 and about 2 million a season , no disrespect to Ledesma but he is 28 and isnt going to get much better and will not add much if we lose Dinho.

Kaka’s brother leaves Milan and joins Penafiel

Posted by Meytar Zeevi on Jul 08, 2010 | 4 Comments

DIGAO has decided it is time to depart from Milan.

Ricardo Kaka will be remembered in the history books of AC Milan, his brother on the other hand, will not be mentioned anywhere in relation to success with the Rossoneri.

Digao joined Milan in the summer of 2005 and was sent to many teams on loan – featuring only in one Serie A match for the Rossoneri. The center-back is tired of it and he has decided to take off.

Milan tracking Genoa’s starlets
Agent: “Gooch” has offers but he wants to stay

Rodrigo Izecson dos Santos Leite, who is responsible for the nickname of his brother Ricardo (Kaka) has joined a second-division Portuguese club F.C. Penafiel.

The 24-year-old has played in the lines of São Paulo FC, U.C. Sampdoria, Rimini Calcio FC, Standard Liège, U.S. Lecce, F.C. Crotone and AC Milan. His new adventure is Penafiel.