Summer Mercato 2010

So Gila was useful after all.

I agree with what Brasilerio said, why should clubs in Brazil sell their stars cheap to European Clubs if they are world beaters. But I also agree with Rick about the insane transfer fees for players these days. I think the trend for clubs will be development of youth and scouting department.
To avoid paying huge money for a bust, clubs will probably need to observe the players longer than before, another thing to look at is the formation he is currently playing in compare to the one the club is playing. Ofcourse, that's very difficult, but if the teams can do that right, they will rarely buy bust.

http://www.football-italia.net/aug21w.html I thought Ibra might come but probably not , and is he implying tha we'll buy half of Boateng and he will go to back and play for Genoa.

Originally Posted by Jay Crisp

http://www.football-italia.net/aug21w.html I thought Ibra might come but probably not , and is he implying tha we'll buy half of Boateng and he will go to back and play for Genoa.

No, I think he said we'll either loan him, or co-own him while he will play for us this season.

Galliani said this too: ". Having said that, dreams are always enjoyable to experience, so we'll see what happens in the final week of the transfer session.”

That, to me, seems to indicate that they're trying as hard as they can to get him. Maybe we can't, but it's a real possibility.

Originally Posted by ZvonimirBoban

No, I think he said we'll either loan him, or co-own him while he will play for us this season.

Yep, and Preciozi (president of Genoa) said that he would be very happy for his club and Boateng if the guy stays in Milan after this year ... for 2 reasons:
- if he stays, that will mean the player has the qualities to be a Milan player, and that will mean Genoa managed to attract a Milan quality player (well, it's a bit stupid, because Boateng said he only wanted Milan and didn't care about the way he arrives in the club)
- there will be a plus-value, so Genoa will have more money and be able to attract another good player next season

So it seems like some of the "conspiracy posters" were right or almost: Milan used Genoa to buy a new player (it's like a loan of money, we will give their money back next season + an interest rate for the year).

I've been gone for 4 days, anything happened the last days?

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

Rick, not every Brazilian club ask for a "insane" amount of money. Cruzeiro sold Ramires for 8M(euros), Inter bought Coutinho for 3M euros in 3x(1 million for year!!!) Corinthians was asking for 6M for Jucilei, Real paid 5M for Marcelo... All purchases, win-win business for European Clubs.

But the Neymar incident showed what I've been saying here for years... Some Brazilian clubs can't pay the same wages of Europe, but they aren't broke as before. They're organized and want to win titles, not be feeders of European clubs. São Paulo chose to keep Hernanes and sold for less than they could have some years ago(15m to Barça), but on the other hand, the team won 3 national titles with him as a leader. The buyout was 25millions and no one pay, great!!! Their fans were happy with the titles, the club is in a good(financial) situation and got 13 for him after that.

Sorry if it sounded as though I was painting all the Brazilian clubs with one brush. But what I was thinking was that for many of these guys -- Neymar being a perfect example -- the transfer fees for players who are 18 or 19 years old and have relatively little experience are more than what established world class stars were moving for just a few short years ago. It wasn't so long ago that a fee of 20 million euros was very rare indeed. Now it's almost a starting point! But I don't blame the clubs for asking for these insane fees. It's the fault of the European clubs for throwing money around so carelessly and driving up the market so drastically. As long as this is the system we have, clubs such as Santos are perfectly within their rights to hold out for the best fee possible.

By the way, I interact with a lot of Europeans on a general football forum and I understand the arrogance of which you speak. They have no idea, really, how good the level of play in the leagues of Brazil and Argentina are, even though the Europeans buy up the best of the best. But the truth is there are many players who are barely heard of outside of South America who could easily play for most national teams. The depth of talent is incredible. I've been keeping a bit of an eye on three young Brazilians who are on loan from Sao Paolo to the Los Angeles Galaxy. All have very famous names -- Juninho, Leonardo and Alex (but not those guys) -- but had yet to make their marks in Brazil. But watching them I see that they have potential. Maybe not the type of potential that would ever interest a club like Milan, but I think they could all have good careers in MLS or in the vast majority of the European leagues. Juninho has particularly impressed me. I saw him score a goal from 30 yards out that was just a rocket. Yet players like these are pretty much a dime a dozen in Brazil and Argentina, which is why the leagues in those countries remain strong despite the European raids for the top players.

I egree with Brasiliero! The prices some clubs pay for european players are completely ubnormal. Specially for EU-players. SPECIALLY for English players ( mid quality players like Milner, BEnt etc.)

Aguess big Euro clubs see Brasil clubs as institutions that would accept anything as they lack any kind of money in the club. But big clubs are now in hands of oil owners etc., also in brasil. So the money is there...

However I do not agree about WC 2014. I do agree NEymar and Ganso should stay for 2 more years in there. Not more. There IS a difference in the way players develop in big European clubs.

I do not wanna say anything less about Brasilian football who I consider to be the best in the world of course. But that is simply how things are.

Prices need to be fair, but as I see it, clubs are hostages of their players and managers. And buying clubs always arrange the transfer with the PLAYER first. Then the club is blackmailed ( Milan does it all the time ).

P.S.

News say Dzeko is off to Mourinho!

Well, if the Brazilian clubs want to be considered like equals of the European clubs by these European clubs, they should try to sell their image in Europe.

I mean, the lambda European supporter of football knows clubs like Real Madrid, Milan AC, Juventus, Barcelona, Manchester United or Liverpool, but if you start speaking about Internacional, Sao Paulo, Santos, Corinthias, or River Plate, ... with him, he will probably know no player from these clubs, and he will also probably think these clubs are not good, play in small leagues and are just useful to sell a Brazilian or Argentinian player here and there.

If you speak about Real Madrid, Milan AC, Juventus, Barcelona, Manchester U or Liverpool to the lambda South American supporter of football, he will probably know a lot of things about these clubs, be able to give you the starting XI or almost.

The problem of the South American clubs is there: they don't seem to work on their image and on the image of their league in Europe. When they'll start selling themselves to European TV, there will probably be less players leaving and having the "European dream".

PS: Maybe things are already changing a little nowadays, for example, in France, the Canal + group (they own Ligue 1, Serie A and Premier League, CL and Europa League) bought 2 or 3 years ago the rights of the Brazilian championship (not all games, only the main ones I think) and the Copa Libertadores. The games are generally diffused late (despite the fact it's not live coverage), and so they probably don't attract a lot of people yet, but it's already a change compared to some years ago ...

PS1: It's like the situation between the leagues in Europe, is Premier League the best championship ? For sure, I'd say no. But like the clubs and the league itself managed to sell their image everywhere, nowadays, even small Premier League clubs can attract good players from abroad, and it's quite difficult to buy players from there then.

Not too many years ago, I remembered reading how Romario complained/commented that World Footballer of the year should also includes those who played outside of Europe or something like that. Maybe if players like Ganso and Neymar chooses to stay in Brazil, they might become the first to win World Footballer of the year award outside of Europe.

http://martina22acm.wordpress.com/20...lusconi-match/

Rumors are growing fast.... We are getting closer...... Berlusconi is rumored to have told some of the press to be ready tonight's Berlusconi trophy as there could be a surprise announcement. I am disappointed that we aren't going for Dzeko but I won't be crying if we signed Ibra

I'm hoping for it, but it's the same as last season when he promised Fabregas.

Originally Posted by Rick

Sorry if it sounded as though I was painting all the Brazilian clubs with one brush. But what I was thinking was that for many of these guys -- Neymar being a perfect example -- the transfer fees for players who are 18 or 19 years old and have relatively little experience are more than what established world class stars were moving for just a few short years ago. It wasn't so long ago that a fee of 20 million euros was very rare indeed. Now it's almost a starting point! But I don't blame the clubs for asking for these insane fees. It's the fault of the European clubs for throwing money around so carelessly and driving up the market so drastically. As long as this is the system we have, clubs such as Santos are perfectly within their rights to hold out for the best fee possible.

Don't worry, Rick... as I wrote before, my rant wasn't for you(your point was fair), but for the comments I read in several newspaper and for the way some clubs are acting. It's too much arrogance. Btw, Santos sold Wesley, a very good young and versatile player(and Andre), for a reasonable price. But they want to hold their best(Neymar and Ganso) to win here. Plus, we don't produce a Neymar or Ganso type very often. They're rare...

By the way, I interact with a lot of Europeans on a general football forum and I understand the arrogance of which you speak. They have no idea, really, how good the level of play in the leagues of Brazil and Argentina are, even though the Europeans buy up the best of the best. But the truth is there are many players who are barely heard of outside of South America who could easily play for most national teams.

Thats was the biggest reason I leave those general football forum. Some guys even stated Neymar is playing in semi-amateur league... Wow!!

Some people fail to realize, that the new generation of coaches in Brazil, put the prejudice aside(yep, there was prejudice towards European way of see football here), and learn A LOT from European football. GK coaches(several years ago) travel to Europe to get tips and learn how they produced amazing keepers and create a new Brazilian school of keepers. We also learn how to produce defenders. Spend more time working on tactics, etc...

The problem was some forgot to keep our roots, find a balance between "both worlds" and thats what Mano Menezes is trying to do right now... and thats(imo) is the biggest thing is hurting Italian football right now, not the numbers of foreigners. A fail to believe there isn 't a young Baggio type of player in Italy. But coaches just doesn't like to use a real #10 behind 2 strikers. They prefer a Camoranesi type... EPL(english) coaches love the box-to-box players(fair enough), but don't know(like?) how to fit a #10 in a scheme(cough: sir Alex :cough). But thats another(long) discussion

The depth of talent is incredible. I've been keeping a bit of an eye on three young Brazilians who are on loan from Sao Paolo to the Los Angeles Galaxy. All have very famous names -- Juninho, Leonardo and Alex (but not those guys) -- but had yet to make their marks in Brazil. But watching them I see that they have potential. Maybe not the type of potential that would ever interest a club like Milan, but I think they could all have good careers in MLS or in the vast majority of the European leagues. Juninho has particularly impressed me. I saw him score a goal from 30 yards out that was just a rocket. Yet players like these are pretty much a dime a dozen in Brazil and Argentina, which is why the leagues in those countries remain strong despite the European raids for the top players.

Can't remember of these names... but It's like USA BB players. The depth is amazing, but isn't in every draft you will find a Chris Paul, Wade or Kobe type of talent. Some years ago(2 if I'm not wrong) Santos promoted one generation was heavily hyped, and I can only remember of a RB(Para) and Wesley that make it. The "stars" of that generation turned into BIG flops, even for Brazilian market.

So, if teams wants to pay for guys like Neymar and Ganso, they better forget this non European experience thing. There's a risk? No doubt, but if they do their homework(not check only films, but work ethic, personality, behaviour, style, if they fit the scheme, can hold pressure, etc) the risk will be minimized. Like we did with Pato...

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

http://martina22acm.wordpress.com/20...lusconi-match/

Rumors are growing fast.... We are getting closer...... Berlusconi is rumored to have told some of the press to be ready tonight's Berlusconi trophy as there could be a surprise announcement. I am disappointed that we aren't going for Dzeko but I won't be crying if we signed Ibra

I think that is just a desperate rumour, but as long as there is any hope

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Well, if the Brazilian clubs want to be considered like equals of the European clubs by these European clubs, they should try to sell their image in Europe.

I mean, the lambda European supporter of football knows clubs like Real Madrid, Milan AC, Juventus, Barcelona, Manchester United or Liverpool, but if you start speaking about Internacional, Sao Paulo, Santos, Corinthias, or River Plate, ... with him, he will probably know no player from these clubs, and he will also probably think these clubs are not good, play in small leagues and are just useful to sell a Brazilian or Argentinian player here and there.

If you speak about Real Madrid, Milan AC, Juventus, Barcelona, Manchester U or Liverpool to the lambda South American supporter of football, he will probably know a lot of things about these clubs, be able to give you the starting XI or almost.

The problem of the South American clubs is there: they don't seem to work on their image and on the image of their league in Europe. When they'll start selling themselves to European TV, there will probably be less players leaving and having the "European dream".

PS: Maybe things are already changing a little nowadays, for example, in France, the Canal + group (they own Ligue 1, Serie A and Premier League, CL and Europa League) bought 2 or 3 years ago the rights of the Brazilian championship (not all games, only the main ones I think) and the Copa Libertadores. The games are generally diffused late (despite the fact it's not live coverage), and so they probably don't attract a lot of people yet, but it's already a change compared to some years ago ...

PS1: It's like the situation between the leagues in Europe, is Premier League the best championship ? For sure, I'd say no. But like the clubs and the league itself managed to sell their image everywhere, nowadays, even small Premier League clubs can attract good players from abroad, and it's quite difficult to buy players from there then.

Perfect, Geo...

But that were lies the problem. Not every big club here is well administrated. Since clubs have no owners, and a president do not respond in justice(and with his own patrimony) for bad business, several amateur or bandits run the things. But things are starting to change, as the supporters are seeing what teams like Intenacional did after a new board start to run the team and are asking for more.

Brazilian league need to change for European season(August to may) and stop to lose players in the middle of the championship. Also, they need to get free of Rede Globo TV. It's incredible, but the majority of the clubs chose to not receive far MORE money from Record TV and keep the exclusive rights in the Globo hands. Only in Brazil...

Until Europe display Champions League, every Brazilian player will die for to play there. Libertadores is amazing, but it's also a war... a jungle! The player will have no doubt if they want to play in a Emirates Stadium, or in a Argentine or Paraguaian small stadium receiving rocks, splits, coins on the head and nothing happening. Or to play over 3000 meter altitude almost dying to breath, or playing in a Camp Nou. There are lots of things to change, but at least they need to start with the basics...Like you stated before, selling the the image of the championship!