Winter Mercato 2011

Originally Posted by LebRN

I don't know which team you were all watching in 2007, but the fact is that Kaka reached his peak that year. In the CL, Milan scored 20 goals in 2007: Kaka scored 10 goals (and made 3 assists) while the rest scored 10: Inzaghi 4, Seedorf 2, Gilardino 2, Pirlo & Gourcuff 1. His performances that year won him the Ballon d'Or. I did not say that Seedorf did not play a couple of excellent games against Bayern & ManU or Inzaghi scored both goals in the final, or.... but this is a team sport and no player no matter how great can win a competition like the CL if he did not have a good team next to him. But take Kaka out of that team & no one in their right mind could say that we would still have won it, but the same cannot be said about anybody else that year. That is what i meant by single-handedly...i do not believe it is an exaggeration and if u have a better example about another player who has had the same effect on the team's perfromance in a single competition, then please do share.

So exaggerated. You have said that was a team game. With or without Kaka Milan could win the championship. You don't know what would happen if Kaka left. Milan could buy a player etc. Anything could happen.

You said that no one in right mind would think Milan could win it. Well, it was just like before the CL started. No one would believe Milan would win it especially without Sheva. I don't know if before the CL started you had right mind.

You forget easily how Carlo utilized Kaka so he could do performance like that, like who made him a striker vs ManU. People only look at who made the goals. People often forget the man behind the team or at least the role of defensive players.

Kaka in 2007? He only helped Milan to do that. With or without him Milan could and can win CL. He needs Milan to win CL. Not vise versa, it has been facts for years. But Kaka without Milan? Still a lot to be proved.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Now, if Kaka' can become again the player he was in 2007, I say a big yes to his come back. If he can at least play like during the WC (not a trequartista, just a classical AM), he would aready be an upgrade in our team.

You know that is not possible Geo... But Kaka' is in my heart ( football wise! ) and I'd welcome him back in Milan. We'd transform to 4-3-1-2 with moving CAM in Kaka' and Pato would play left CF, which is perfect "tridente".

But the question is one of the fullbacks... D. Luiz as a LB is also perfect.

http://www.rossoneriblog.com/milan-t...free-transfer/

Ivanovic's contract expires in June. He's 26, he's EU, he's been linked with us in the past, he's very solid defensively and is even good at RB. Can be an excellent squad player to replace Oddo+Zambrotta+Janku+Onyewu all of which should be leaving in 1-2 years.

Excellent deal in my books, if true ofcourse.


BTW, Italy beat Latvia in the Euro U19 qualifiers 2-1 thanks to a Simone Verdi goal.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

http://www.rossoneriblog.com/milan-t...free-transfer/

Ivanovic's contract expires in June. He's 26, he's EU, he's been linked with us in the past, he's very solid defensively and is even good at RB. Can be an excellent squad player to replace Oddo+Zambrotta+Janku+Onyewu all of which should be leaving in 1-2 years.

Excellent deal in my books, if true ofcourse.


BTW, Italy beat Latvia in the Euro U19 qualifiers 2-1 thanks to a Simone Verdi goal.

How is he EU? Serbia is a non EU country. For me he is first 11 player, top quality RB. One of the victims of Carletto

Originally Posted by Siregar

So exaggerated. You have said that was a team game. With or without Kaka Milan could win the championship. You don't know what would happen if Kaka left. Milan could buy a player etc. Anything could happen.

You said that no one in right mind would think Milan could win it. Well, it was just like before the CL started. No one would believe Milan would win it especially without Sheva. I don't know if before the CL started you had right mind.

You forget easily how Carlo utilized Kaka so he could do performance like that, like who made him a striker vs ManU. People only look at who made the goals. People often forget the man behind the team or at least the role of defensive players.

Kaka in 2007? He only helped Milan to do that. With or without him Milan could and can win CL. He needs Milan to win CL. Not vise versa, it has been facts for years. But Kaka without Milan? Still a lot to be proved.

great reasoning

anyway, i'm glad to see some guys here (Geo, hitman,...) sharing my views...
but at the end of the day, all this debate started just because i wanted to say that i don't blame the guy for leaving & would welcome him back anytime, but as mrki said, that is probably a long shot....but so was Ibra

as for Ivanovic, a big yes from me

Originally Posted by LebRN

great reasoning

anyway, i'm glad to see some guys here (Geo, hitman,...) sharing my views...
but at the end of the day, all this debate started just because i wanted to say that i don't blame the guy for leaving & would welcome him back anytime, but as mrki said, that is probably a long shot....but so was Ibra

as for Ivanovic, a big yes from me

Ah, I see the reasons why you said all exaggeration about Kaka.

Yes, free quality players (but not old) Milan should chase.

Originally Posted by Siregar

So exaggerated. You have said that was a team game. With or without Kaka Milan could win the championship. You don't know what would happen if Kaka left. Milan could buy a player etc. Anything could happen.

You said that no one in right mind would think Milan could win it. Well, it was just like before the CL started. No one would believe Milan would win it especially without Sheva. I don't know if before the CL started you had right mind.

You forget easily how Carlo utilized Kaka so he could do performance like that, like who made him a striker vs ManU. People only look at who made the goals. People often forget the man behind the team or at least the role of defensive players.

Kaka in 2007? He only helped Milan to do that. With or without him Milan could and can win CL. He needs Milan to win CL. Not vise versa, it has been facts for years. But Kaka without Milan? Still a lot to be proved.

But it can be said for ALL the great players in the history of football ...
Zidane wouldn't have won anything he he wasn't in good teams of course, Platini, Maradona, Pele, Messi, Ronaldinho, etc ... All these guys would probably have won nothing in bad teams, the fact is the best players are generally in good teams and are generally what makes these teams become great.

There are good teams, and there are great teams. In 2007, we were a great team in CL (not in Serie A). Why ? Because Kaka' stepped up in this competition, of course, thanks to Ancelotti, A, B, C, X, Y and Z. Without Kaka', we would have had no player to make the real difference that year in this competition.

Then, you say we can't know if we would have bought someone else, etc ... but that's not the point about the discussion: the point was to debate about the possibility for Milan 2007 to win CL with Kaka' and without Kaka'. To make it simple: Milan 2007 with Kaka' vs Milan 2007 without Kaka'. I still think that if you put Kaka' out of the 2007 team, we wouldn't have won CL.

And Mrki, a bit like you, even if Kaka' doesn't turn to be great like in the past, I would probably like to see him again in a red and black shirt. His bad form is mainly due to the injuries, it's not like Sheva who totally lost himself in England, so I think he could still be a very important player in Milan if he had a second chance like Sheva had.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

But it can be said for ALL the great players in the history of football ...
Zidane wouldn't have won anything he he wasn't in good teams of course, Platini, Maradona, Pele, Messi, Ronaldinho, etc ... All these guys would probably have won nothing in bad teams, the fact is the best players are generally in good teams and are generally what makes these teams become great.

See, no one greater than a club (the team itself). Saying someone won a championship single handedly is more than a mistake.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

There are good teams, and there are great teams. In 2007, we were a great team in CL (not in Serie A). Why ? Because Kaka' stepped up in this competition, of course, thanks to Ancelotti, A, B, C, X, Y and Z. Without Kaka', we would have had no player to make the real difference that year in this competition.

Why you only compare with or without Kaka. How about with or without Ancelotti? Would Milan win the game? Would Kaka get performance like that?

People forget easily how CL final for Milan Ancelotti from 2003 untill 2007 was like a habbit. Only Milan's arrogance like they showed against Depor were the obstacle plus a referee decision in Nou Camp (Sheva). 2003, 2005, 2007 were Milan in the final. Coincidence? No.
And after Milan won 2007 people said Kaka won single handedly? I agree with other user, that sentence is the mother of exaggeration!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Then, you say we can't know if we would have bought someone else, etc ... but that's not the point about the discussion: the point was to debate about the possibility for Milan 2007 to win CL with Kaka' and without Kaka'. To make it simple: Milan 2007 with Kaka' vs Milan 2007 without Kaka'. I still think that if you put Kaka' out of the 2007 team, we wouldn't have won CL.

I ask you, if you were in 2007 before CL started, would you say Milan would win CL? It is so much easy to predict something that happen since you have already fact to defend your statement. But not with something haven't been yet happened.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

And Mrki, a bit like you, even if Kaka' doesn't turn to be great like in the past, I would probably like to see him again in a red and black shirt. His bad form is mainly due to the injuries, it's not like Sheva who totally lost himself in England, so I think he could still be a very important player in Milan if he had a second chance like Sheva had.

My point is not about Kaka come or not because I am not a fan of Kaka. He was Milan player, I like it. He is not Milan player, I don't care.

In a straight fight btw kaka and cristiano in '07 overall, smart money would be on cr7. But when MILAN faced UTD, MILAN RIPPED THEM APART. why? because while cr7 had a great year, the rest of his team couldn't match Milan. same thing bayern, same thing celtic, same thing liverpool. And Geo, all the guys u mentioned are above kaka...... and they won league titles in their prime. The only player that has almost single-handedly won a club CL in at least 10 years is gerrard. Almost.

Originally Posted by Siregar

Why you only compare with or without Kaka. How about with or without Ancelotti? Would Milan win the game? Would Kaka get performance like that?

People forget easily how CL final for Milan Ancelotti from 2003 untill 2007 was like a habbit. Only Milan's arrogance like they showed against Depor were the obstacle plus a referee decision in Nou Camp (Sheva). 2003, 2005, 2007 were Milan in the final. Coincidence? No.

2003, 2004 and 2005: we should have won everything, thanks to Ancelotti, Kaka', Pirlo, Seedorf, Sheva, Nesta, etc. We probably had the best team in Europe.

2006: it's weird, I'm going to have to refresh my mind because I don't remember this year right now, probably because I mainly remember Italy winning the WC ...
EDIT before posting: yeah, in CL, we should have won it too that year ...

2007: our team was far from the level we had few years before. It's mainly since 2007 that Galliani says CL is in our DNA ... this win was a surprise.

Originally Posted by Siregar

I ask you, if you were in 2007 before CL started, would you say Milan would win CL? It is so much easy to predict something that happen since you have already fact to defend your statement. But not with something haven't been yet happened.

I always think Milan can win CL at the start of a season ...
But anyway, I don't understand this paragraph, well, I understand it, but I don't know why you say that. I don't try to predict anything, I just try to think about our team without Kaka' in 2007, and when I think about it, I don't see us managing to win CL without him. It's all I said, knowing if before the start of the season, I or anyone else predicted we would win it or not isn't needed at all in this discussion I think.

Originally Posted by Siregar

My point is not about Kaka come or not because I am not a fan of Kaka. He was Milan player, I like it. He is not Milan player, I don't care.

Sorry, the last part was for Mrki actually, it's because I didn't want to open another page to quote his post ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

I always think Milan can win CL at the start of a season ...

Hahaha great answer. True Milan fan!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

But anyway, I don't understand this paragraph, well, I understand it, but I don't know why you say that. I don't try to predict anything, I just try to think about our team without Kaka' in 2007, and when I think about it, I don't see us managing to win CL without him. It's all I said, knowing if before the start of the season, I or anyone else predicted we would win it or not isn't needed at all in this discussion I think.

I just only to show that people gave praises about Kaka after Milan won CL (it is logic) but people would not predict Kaka would perform like that. What is the difference between Kaka 2007 and before that time? Why people praised him so much? IMO first of all because we had no more scorer (read: top striker) who managed to score the goal. All attention then went to Kaka who made goals. So, he didn't have to share the praises like before (or someone had to share the praises with Kaka).

But how could he actually made many goals? I mean, how could be so decisive in Milan team? What was the difference in Kaka before 2007 and in 2007? IMO first of all the transformation of his position. It could be seen against Celtic, MU Old trafford and San Siro and against Liverpool. Who could ever think to do such change of position for Kaka (like to be striker or shadow striker)? The one who make CL final like habbit for Milan!

I repeat it again, would people predict Kaka would do such great form in the CL before the CL 200 started? That is the starting point, not after Kaka has done this and that great form in CL. So, for me, it is not the material (to be produced into a great product) is the most important but how to make the material to be a great product is more important (not Kaka was the most important but how to make Kaka like in 2007 was more important).

In my view Milan won the CL 2007 because of:
1. The genius of Ancelotti who utilized Kaka with the tranformation of position for Kaka he made.
2. Kaka's performance as result of the first point.
3. The determination and fighting spirit of Milan players especially against MU in San Siro and against Bayern München.

I think we can find someone who will can give us more then KAKA.
Someone like Pastore or Ganso oe Neymar.

Can someone tell me what are the talks about we getting David Luiz?

Originally Posted by kakacmilan best

Can someone tell me what are the talks about we getting David Luiz?

I also searched news about it but couldn't find one. I only found that Silva and Luis played for Brasil against Iran (in the game who Pato scored).

Any link about Milan linked with David Luis?

Originally Posted by Nalx

On Kaka's issue, my opinion is of Pearl Jam's Nothingman: once divided nothing left to subtract, some words when spoken can't be taken back.


Besides, to my knowledge, NO ONE ever succeeded in their 2nd spell with us: Sacchi, Capello, Gullit, Simone, Donadoni, Sheva, you name it.


Kaka's fitness is more likely to deteriorate with time. Even if it turns out otherwise, I don't think I'll have enough patience to read reports about Galliani negotiating contracts renewal with a certain daddy greedy every year.


Enough is enough!

..........

Nice to see the boards busy...

As for Kaka, I don't know how this discussion started, but Nalx said it best; Kaka will not, should not, return to AC Milan. I do not think his physical situation will get better, I think he may be finished. He will NOT return to 2007 quality, and speaking on that year, KAKA was the most important piece of the puzzle for Milan, and they would not have won without him; PERIOD. Against Man U we were unconscious in that game at home in the rain, and guys like Pirlo and Seedorf played unreal. Kaka, however, was the Superstar we needed....our MVP

I wish Kaka the best, he'll always be in the hearts of the Milanisti, but he moved on, as did we. I want to beat Real Madrid twice, and win the Champions League as many times as possible with this squad. I want for Ibra to finally win CL with us, and I want him to kiss our emblem, and mean it...

It's important for us to sell Ronaldinho, and release guys like Janku/Bonera/Oddo. Selling Bonera for €5 Million is Fantastic... I'd take a bunch of balls and some Gatorade Mix for him...

For Ivanovic, a big YES, we need a RB or LB, and probably one that's more solid, and one that can attack a bit more. Also, a Trequartista (ACM) is also needed once Ronaldinho leaves. Then Robinho/Zlatan/Pato occupy the 2 Forward Slots. There are plenty of games for the 3.

Another transfer I'd love to see is Jucilei, as I've seen very (nice, dynamic, box to box) things from him.

All in All, While I really like the team as it is now, let's be honest, we still have to be active in the transfer market or develop some young talent... We will need to fill 4-5 positions in the next 2-3 years....especially with Nesta, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Gattuso, Pirlo, Ambro getting old....