Winter Mercato 2011

Originally Posted by Reza

Morientes retired in the summer but 34 and free...stranger things have happened

Yes, and Edgar David's foray back into English 1st Division football after coming out from retirement ended after 5 months and 11 appearances

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Thanks for posting this article. It's rare to see a well written piece on goal.com and the writer makes a lot of valid arguements. The hype around Xavi and Barca since El Classico has been going overboard.

Well goal.com is more shi.ier than ever. Who'd the f.ck is Carlo Garganese?! Do you guys know how old is he? 26. 26! And he's suddenly able to the Xavi is the greatest midfielder of all-time! Who'd f.ck he has seen?!

Well, I'm as old as Garganese, I've seen a lot of players in 15-16 years I've been watching football, plus some footage from before then, and I can tell you that Xavi is not at level Pirlo was at his prime.

Xavi always had great players around him, and you can see that without Iniesta (who's better player imo), he can't do a sh.t. Last year against Inter, he wasn't capable to put one good pass for his strikers against the team with a man down. I've seen numerous occasion when D. Alves got behind Eto'o on the right and Xavi was unable to play a simple long ball Pirlo could coolly play on his average day.

I'm not a big fan of "Man he carried his team to the world cup crown on his own" type of sentences, but REALLY Pirlo took Italy to the world cup crown OWNING the midfield with the players like Gattuso and Perrotta around him.

Then regarding Zidane, another overrated player imo, you said '98 WC, well he almost didn't play till the finals, when he scored two goals. To say he carried France all the way to the title is ridiculous. Totti was better player imo. When you consider how great passer he was (just passer, not to mention striker capabilities!), you need to take his brilliant vision (you can really talk about the best of all-time in that view) and the CONSISTENCY in doing this. Totti played a no-look killer passes on weekly basis 5 years before Ronaldinho shook up the world with his occasional no-look passes.

Just look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHiv3JngHoU

Pay attention to 1:05, it's probably the greatest one-touch pass of all-time.

To conclude, there were always "stars" who got all media attention, and "quiet" players who were more brilliant. Iniesta, Pirlo, Totti are just some examples.

Agreed with Revolver.

I used to think you must be much older

i have to agree on the Totti part....
i truly think this guy, with all the fame he has in Italy, still did not get the acknowledgement he deserves on the international level.
Not to take anything from Zidane, but i always thought Totti was a better player, unfortunately he did not win as much as Zidane did as he decided to play only for Roma, not Juve & Real...and although he won a WC, I always thought that come 2002, Totti will be the absolute star of that WC and get Italy to the title, but we all know what happened there (i will have the urge to kill that referee till as long as i live)
As for Totti's passing, not only he can do that blind pass regularly, the % of success on it is phenomenal, I don't know any other player who can that better and his passes were always unbelievably accurate and for the most part decisive
i dreamed for him playing for Milan for years...i know he has built a legacy at Roma and has probably already become their best player ever but I am not sure if he doesn't regret not leaving them
Anyway, I love this guy and he is still the reason I watch Roma matches

If you go by stats, probably Zidane seems to have the best of an ACM, but he also played on great teams (France, Juventus, Real Madrid)... he scored in Champions League Final, he made 2 finals with Juventus, he won numerous league titles, won a Euro & World Cup, and made the final of 2006 in which he carried the team...

Xavi and Pirlo are not players who have those sort of credentials, and Xavi has played on Barcelona which is in my opinion the best team I've ever seen
(**For the record, I'm also only 26, so I have not seen much**)

Totti is great and a Roma Legend, an Italian legend, but because he never won Champions League (not even a final or close), he's won 1 Scudetto.. and a World Cup (that was largely based off of their defense) he could never be considered a GOAT in my opinion.

Take a guy like Maradona, who won Scudetto with Napoli with scrubs on the team, and a World Cup single handedly, now that's a level above.

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As for Milan, we have 4 more games and then I want to see what we do in January. I'm fine if we don't make many moved, assuming we'll make 3-4 moves in Summer 2011. I think Milan will buy or loan a striker (Roque Santa Cruz).... more probably loan, and then make a full strong Mercato in the Summer....

Originally Posted by Elmago99

Totti is great and a Roma Legend, an Italian legend, but .............

If you mean Seria-A legend, then yes, but I don't don't think he will be remembered as Italian NT legend like Baggio, Maldini & Cannavaro

Take a guy like Maradona, who won Scudetto with Napoli with scrubs on the team, and a World Cup single handedly, now that's a level above.

Actually two Scudetti & 2nd place finishes

I follow the forum regularly but haven't had the time to post because of school commitments..but this Xavi topic is too juicy to pass up even though I feel like I've spoken about this before.

Having watched 90% of Barcelona's games over the last 4 years..and 99.9999% of Milan's games over the last 6-7 years, I can safely say that Xavi > Pirlo for me (Iniesta is a completely different type of player). The reason for that is simple.

As far as i'm concerned, when rating players the most important thing is consistency. Pirlo is a great player no doubt..and there's games where his passing is absolutely heavenly and a joy to watch. However, Xavi is able to do it week in, week out over the course of a long season and the stats are there to show it as well. He has a wider variety of weapons in his arsenal, scores more and assists more. People say Xavi is part of a great team..as if the 2003-2007 Milan team or the WC 2006 team were such HORRIBLE teams for Pirlo to play in. Great players will always be part of great teams with great supporting cast. The fact that he's STILL able to shine amidst all those amazing players says a lot about his quality.

I could go into the details as to why I think he's better but when players are that good, it comes down to personal preference (and in some cases..personal bias). Most Milan fans you ask may say Pirlo..while most Barcelona fans will probably say Xavi and the cycle never ends. Kinda like the Messi vs C. Ronaldo debate. Xavi was one of those stars who never got the attention due to him but since 2007-2008 he's been getting it and it's well deserved after years of consistent performances.

Originally Posted by Revolver

Well goal.com is more shi.ier than ever. Who'd the f.ck is Carlo Garganese?! Do you guys know how old is he? 26. 26! And he's suddenly able to the Xavi is the greatest midfielder of all-time! Who'd f.ck he has seen?!

Well, I'm as old as Garganese, I've seen a lot of players in 15-16 years I've been watching football, plus some footage from before then, and I can tell you that Xavi is not at level Pirlo was at his prime.

Xavi always had great players around him, and you can see that without Iniesta (who's better player imo), he can't do a sh.t. Last year against Inter, he wasn't capable to put one good pass for his strikers against the team with a man down. I've seen numerous occasion when D. Alves got behind Eto'o on the right and Xavi was unable to play a simple long ball Pirlo could coolly play on his average day.

I'm not a big fan of "Man he carried his team to the world cup crown on his own" type of sentences, but REALLY Pirlo took Italy to the world cup crown OWNING the midfield with the players like Gattuso and Perrotta around him.

Then regarding Zidane, another overrated player imo, you said '98 WC, well he almost didn't play till the finals, when he scored two goals. To say he carried France all the way to the title is ridiculous. Totti was better player imo. When you consider how great passer he was (just passer, not to mention striker capabilities!), you need to take his brilliant vision (you can really talk about the best of all-time in that view) and the CONSISTENCY in doing this. Totti played a no-look killer passes on weekly basis 5 years before Ronaldinho shook up the world with his occasional no-look passes.

Just look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHiv3JngHoU

Pay attention to 1:05, it's probably the greatest one-touch pass of all-time.

To conclude, there were always "stars" who got all media attention, and "quiet" players who were more brilliant. Iniesta, Pirlo, Totti are just some examples.

Zidane's contribution during '98 was important. It wasn't just the final but the fact that he had so much responsibility given the quality of his attacking partners throughout the tournament. More importantly, if we're talking about the quality of the player then Zidane must be viewed for what he did also at Euro 2000 (he was almost unstoppable in that tournament) and also at club level. He is an all time great, this shouldn't be denied.

Speaking of Totti, I think he's one of the great talents of his generation, but I do feel he's never achieved at the highest level as he should have. For Roma he's a brilliant player, but 90% of his brilliance is only seen in Serie A. He's not achieved the same level of success in European competitions. Same goes at International level with Italy, where for all his genius he's never really shone for the Italian team.

Originally Posted by Mystik

I follow the forum regularly but haven't had the time to post because of school commitments..but this Xavi topic is too juicy to pass up even though I feel like I've spoken about this before.

Having watched 90% of Barcelona's games over the last 4 years..and 99.9999% of Milan's games over the last 6-7 years, I can safely say that Xavi > Pirlo for me (Iniesta is a completely different type of player). The reason for that is simple.

As far as i'm concerned, when rating players the most important thing is consistency. Pirlo is a great player no doubt..and there's games where his passing is absolutely heavenly and a joy to watch. However, Xavi is able to do it week in, week out over the course of a long season and the stats are there to show it as well. He has a wider variety of weapons in his arsenal, scores more and assists more. People say Xavi is part of a great team..as if the 2003-2007 Milan team or the WC 2006 team were such HORRIBLE teams for Pirlo to play in. Great players will always be part of great teams with great supporting cast. The fact that he's STILL able to shine amidst all those amazing players says a lot about his quality.

I could go into the details as to why I think he's better but when players are that good, it comes down to personal preference (and in some cases..personal bias). Most Milan fans you ask may say Pirlo..while most Barcelona fans will probably say Xavi and the cycle never ends. Kinda like the Messi vs C. Ronaldo debate. Xavi was one of those stars who never got the attention due to him but since 2007-2008 he's been getting it and it's well deserved after years of consistent performances.

I would be repeating myself if I go into depth about your arguments, but let me ask you does Xavi actually score more than Pirlo? I remembered you brought up this argument before and checked out the stats. From what I saw Pirlo had a better goals to game ratio than Xavi, despite playing in a deeper role for most of his career. That said not all statistics seem consistent, but what was notable there wasn't a big difference between the number of goals scored between the two according to all sources.

The positions they play also disreputes the whole argument of assists too. Maybe (I've not checked the stats) Xavi has assisted more goals than Pirlo, but the two players play in different positions, with Pirlo being deeper, so I expect Xavi to naturally have more assists.

Milannews.it reports that Braida is back from Brazil with good news about Ganso... it doesn't mention anything else at all.

talking about Inzaghi replacements, why has no one mentioned Pazzini?? this guy is too good for Sampdoria, I am pretty sure he will end up at Juve next year

Regarding the Pirlo vs Xavi debate, its a tough call, they are both exceptional. Xavi has been more consistent but Pirlo has had more wow moments, such as his spectacular random long range goals and his fks. Both players have excellent vision, both are good readers of the game and tactically minded. Xavi is better with the ball at his feet and thinks quicker, Pirlo is more deliberate. In his prime Pirlos vision and ability to read the game was second to none.

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

Milannews.it reports that Braida is back from Brazil with good news about Ganso... it doesn't mention anything else at all.

It also said he got to see first hand the physical condition of the player and speak with the leaders of Santos. It apparently looks like he's a priority for next summer as Dinho's departure looks more likely too.

Haha! Best rumour ever...

http://www.football-italia.net/dec04g.html

Just watched Arsenal match, Nasri just an another example how good Arsene winger is..thats mean Arsenal will now sell Fabregas.. anyway there is another attacking and wonderful midfielder up for grab, there are rumors that Rosicky will be available for transfer .............

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I would be repeating myself if I go into depth about your arguments, but let me ask you does Xavi actually score more than Pirlo? I remembered you brought up this argument before and checked out the stats. From what I saw Pirlo had a better goals to game ratio than Xavi, despite playing in a deeper role for most of his career. That said not all statistics seem consistent, but what was notable there wasn't a big difference between the number of goals scored between the two according to all sources.

The positions they play also disreputes the whole argument of assists too. Maybe (I've not checked the stats) Xavi has assisted more goals than Pirlo, but the two players play in different positions, with Pirlo being deeper, so I expect Xavi to naturally have more assists.

Just went to soccernet to check out the stats although like you said, some sites record assists differently from others but I guess this would give us a decent idea of a comparison between the two. Soccernet history goes back to 01/02 season so I'll start from there. I'll only include totals from league, local cup and European cup action.

01/02 Season:

Pirlo: 11 games started, 16 games subbed. 2 goals 0 assists
Xavi: 31 games started, 7 games subbed. 4 goals 0 assists

02/03 Season:

Pirlo: 32 games started, 8 games subbed. 9 goals 0 assists
Xavi: 43 games started, 0 games subbed. 3 goals 0 assists

03/04 Season:
Pirlo: 40 games started, 2 games subbed. 7 goals 0 assists
Xavi: 42 games started, 4 games subbed. 5 goals 0 assists

04/05 Season:

Pirlo: 37 games started, 4 games subbed. 5 goals 0 assists
Xavi: 44 games started, 0 games subbed. 3 goals 0 assists

05/06 Season:

Pirlo: 42 games started, 2 games subbed. 5 goals 1 assists
Xavi: 18 games started, 2 games subbed. 0 goals 1 assists

06/07 Season:
Pirlo: 48 games started, 4 games subbed. 3 goals 9 assists
Xavi: 41 games started, 7 games subbed. 5 goals 4 assists

07/08 Season:
Pirlo: 40 games started, 1 games subbed. 5 goals 11 assists
Xavi: 46 games started, 3 games subbed. 9 goals 7 assists

08/09 Season:
Pirlo: 29 games started, 0 games subbed. 2 goals 2 assists
Xavi: 47 games started, 4 games subbed. 9 goals 27 assists

09/10 Season:
Pirlo: 41 games started, 4 games subbed. 1 goals 4 assists
Xavi: 44 games started, 4 games subbed. 6 goals 17 assists

10/11 Season:
Pirlo: 13 games started, 2 games subbed. 1 goals 1 assists
Xavi: 14 games started, 2 games subbed. 2 goals 3 assists

Like I said, overall Xavi chalked up more assists than Pirlo over the course of the decade although the goals scored are pretty similar. Pirlo has an edge in that regard given that he took the majority of our direct free kicks. You say that they play in different positions but I don't think that's entirely true. They both start from deep but Xavi ensures to push up more and support the attack while Pirlo tends to sit back and dictate play from behind.

In the end though, it will never be clear cut because they are both amazing players with excellent vision and passing ability. I would choose Xavi because he ensures to get forward more and as a result enables himself to have more of a direct impact on the game.

Xavi Hernandez

Goals & Assists (Total for Club)
1999: 1 & 0
2000: 2 & 1
2001: 2 & 0
2002: 4 & 0
2003: 3 & 0
2004: 5 & 0
2005: 3 & 0
2006: 0 & 1
2007: 5 & 5
2008: 9 & 7
2009: 9 & 27
2010: 4 & 6
2011: 2 & 3

International: 8 Goals, 96 Appearances

Achievements:
Man of the Match: Champions League Final
2 Champions Leagues
1 Euro Cup
1 World Cup
5 Spanish La Liga's
1 Spanish Cup
4 Spanish Super Cups
1 UEFA Super Cup
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andrea Pirlo

Goals & Assists (Total for Club)
2002: 2 & 0
2003: 9 & 0
2004: 7 & 0
2005: 5 & 0
2006: 5 & 1
2007: 3 & 9
2008: 5 & 11
2009: 2 & 2
2010: 1 & 4
2011: 1 & 1

International: 8 Goals, 64 Appearances

Achievements:

1 Scudetto
2 Champions Leagues
2 European Super Cups
1 World Cup
1 Italian Super Cup
1 Italian Cup
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zinedine Zidane

Goals & Assists (Total for Club)
1997: 7 & 2
1998: 11 & 3
1999: 2 & 0
2000: 5 & 2
2001: 5 & 0
2002: 12 & 0
2003: 12 & 4
2004: 10 & 0
2005: 6 & 0
2006: 9 & 10

International: 31 Goals, 108 Appearances

Achievements:
Won 98 World Cup, 2000 Euro Cup, Finalist 2006 World Cup
Won 2 Scudetti
1 La Liga
1 Champions League
2 UEFA Super Cups
1 Intercontinental Cup
3-Time FIFA World Player of the Year
1-Time Ballon D'or Winner