Winter Mercato 2011

Originally Posted by LebRN

sorry no thread for the next game so will post here:
Cesena were 2-0 down after 16 mins and have equalized in around 13 mins!!!
interesting team....can they get sg off inter tonight

There is a coppa match tomorrow

Originally Posted by Elmago99

No respect for opponents, club, and manager....????

Sounds like Cassano to me, cursing out the owner of the club..also Robinho at Man City...Ronaldinho at Barcelona when he partied too much, Balotelli (another Milan target) does all sorts of disrespectful things.

As far as your 2nd comment, I agree, it's hard to find World Class defensive players, perhaps the standard has dropped. Guys like Nesta and Puyol are getting older, Carragher, Terry as well. As far as Italian defenders goes, there are few and far between. Literally the best right now are Nesta and Chiellini. Nesta has a year or so left, and Chiellini will be a life long Juventus player. Bonucci and Rannocchia are average, and Santacroce doesn't even play. Gamberini, Barzagli are below average, and the rest look like Bonera

It's mind boggling that we're looking for an All-Brazilian Center Back pairing of our future. Look at Real Madrid, in my opinion their Carvalho-Pepe pairing are very average, and not world class in my opinion....so on this account, Tony, I agree with you. So then what's your solution for how our Back Line should look for the next decade?

Balotelli has age as an excuse and Cassano is a little crazy.
I think Robinho done more for City than they did for him, and we all know R80 stopped being professional some years ago.

Ramos acts in the same way as Materazzi. Deliberate fouls, pushing people in the face, even national team-mates who helped him become a WC winner.

Brazil seem to be the only country producing genuine talents in all departments.

The youth system of Milan needs to be reviewed starting from the junior ages. Only then can we see how the club progress as once the fair play deal comes in, most big spenders won't be in Europe, including Milan.

Originally Posted by Arildonardo

Everything was so much better in the good old days...

So if the general standard of players have dropped, then maybe he's more than good enough anyway? We'll probably never have a new Maldini, Baresi or Nesta, live with it. If we can keep Ibrahimovic and Cassano quiet, then surely we could with Ramos?

People have different opinions on different players. Some people actually remember Zidane as a great football player, rather than a card machine. He got at least 12 red cards during his career. Some of them pretty nasty as well... Not comparing Zidane and Ramos though.

Personally I thought Zidane to be an over-rated player due to 2 goals in a WC Final, and as you said a very dirty player.

I don't mind the standard dropping, but I've got a problem with player's being dirty sobs or racists which Ramos is.

Originally Posted by Tony75

If Paolo told you to put your hand in a fire...

I can judge the players well enough, and ramos is a dirty player, with no respect for opponents, like his club and manager.

Bar about 5/6 players there are no genuine WC players in the modern game. Maybe Ramos is a good player, but that just shows how far the standards have dropped.

So your point is?

If standard has dropped then surely he's one of the best player in the world. We don't need good players, we need one of the best in the world, and Ramos is one of them. If that means the standard has dropped, then that means he is better than most players out there (in his position), so why not?

Name any right-backs better than him right now. I'd say only Lahm, maybe Alves and Maicon, and even those are disputable.

PS: racists? How?

Originally Posted by Elmago99

it's hard to find World Class defensive players, perhaps the standard has dropped.

Perhaps offensive players are just so much more skilled and quicker than the "good old days". Perhaps we shouldn't expect clean sheets every game. That said, we still need a FB that can play defense. We keep getting exploited by opposing offenses.

Originally Posted by arildonardo

and Out...

Yes Indeed!!!!

Originally Posted by ZvonimirBoban

So your point is?

If standard has dropped then surely he's one of the best player in the world. We don't need good players, we need one of the best in the world, and Ramos is one of them. If that means the standard has dropped, then that means he is better than most players out there (in his position), so why not?

Name any right-backs better than him right now. I'd say only Lahm, maybe Alves and Maicon, and even those are disputable.

PS: racists? How?

Not in my book is he one of the best. He is a thick mf.

All you mentioned are better than him esp Alves & Maicon. You can add Ivanovic too, and prob half a dozen Brazilians nobody has heard of.

He gave an interview a few months ago that was clearly racists. I'm not going to dig it up as I find the player disgusting.

Ironic for someone of gypsy extraction to be a racist, esp in Spain.

Abate has shown more def awareness and covering ability this season than Ramos has ever done as a rb.

Who is Ziegler? Is he good enough to be our fullback backup?

Originally Posted by Siregar

Who is Ziegler? Is he good enough to be our fullback backup?

He is a very good left footed player and going foward he is pretty good, however I would question his defensive abilities. He is still 25 years old, so there is still room for improvment.

Originally Posted by Bosniaco

He is a very good left footed player and going foward he is pretty good, however I would question his defensive abilities. He is still 25 years old, so there is still room for improvment.

Well, 25 years old player should be an established one, not player expected to be improving especially in part (defensive ability for offensive-minded player) that is very hard to improve even for young player.

If he really comes to Milan, I hope he is AT LEAST good enough to be our sub for Zambrotta.

I haven't seen one ziegler's game as a left fullback this season,but I saw his games as a midfielder in world cup.his game style is like prince boateng's with less speed and fiercity but more dicipline.

The material to be a elite fullback is right there, the combination of strength,speed,sprint distance and versatile skill.Still the project is to work on his defence and positioning awareness.at this department, we got former tactical masters tassoti in coaching staff.I remember when abate's fullback earlier stage, he is far behind than ziegler right now.

Plus,3 million is worth the gamble.

Ziegler, I'm not even sure if he is better than Nini..... Having another option has LB is good, but it's not really good if both our LB's are just as bad as each other.

Ziegler is 25 and people claim there is room to improve, and in his career so far he really hasn't done anything special consistently. On the hand you have Coentrao at 22, who has all the tools necessarily to be the new Maicon (at left back). Coentrao has already played a full World Cup and was Portugal's best player probably, and is already worth about 20m at 22 years old as a fullback. Coentrao, in my opinion, is not only excellent offensively, but he has some real good defensive skills as well that can only get better in a school like Milan.

I really wish Ziegler coming in is simply to replace Jankulovski who is leaving in the summer. We really need a dominant fullback. Yes Abate's improvement is very pleasing to see, and I will support the kid, but I am not yet convinced that Abate should be our RB for the next era. I'd love to have him in the squad, but not as the starter (not yet at least).

So to summarize: Ziegler is not that good, not at all. Hopefully he's just a squad addition, something like what Lazzari will be. These players can be very important for us in the long-run, but they are not starting material at a club like Milan, just saying.


EDIT: latest news from mediaset claim that Ziegler is practically already Milan player for 4 and half years, Milan payed Samp 3 million euro (the ones we got from Flamengo for Dinho).

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it...olo51369.shtml

Let's become realistic ...

What want clubs like Benfica with players like Coentrao or David Luiz ? They want money, a lot of money, but they also want to keep these players until the end of the season !!

When you look at the rumours about Coentrao going to Real Madrid, it seems there is an agreement but the player won't leave in January, only in June ...

What do we want right now ? WC players ? Not sure ... unless someone becomes available in this mercato (that means: leaves his club and joins us), it won't happen IMO. In this January month, what we are going to buy is players adding depth to the squad, and as a consequence, we're going to try to get players who aren't cup tied !! We need players who can make an impact now and can play in all the competitions. Someone is saying Cassano ? He's among the players of the previous category: WC (or almost) player available now.

So we should maybe stop dreaming about guys like Coentrao (we're no more even linked with him) during this January month, this kind of player is probably going to come this summer, but right now, that won't happen.

Actually I just went and youtube scouted Ziegler, I am very impressed with how he scores goals... he scores alot more goals than I am used to from a full back, he doesn't assist enough though and his defense isn't great... but he's scored a few free kick rocket shots with his left foot too. He looks so much better than Criscito that was rated for somewhere between 12-18million!

GeoTav, I really don't think he has any agreement with Real like how you think. Real Madrid are really set on the left flank, they have Marcelo and a sub as Arbeloa, there's no way that Mourinho will bring Coentrao to replace Marcelo because Marcelo is now one of Mourinho's first players in the starting 11. I can see Barcelona making a bid for Coentrao, that's the only position that they are not excellent in. Man United also have Evra, who is also playing very well for them and will play for them for at least 2 more years, I don't think they will join the race for him.

I remember seeing an interview in the summer with Rui Costa, and he said that Milan have the priority on all of his players at Benfica. I don't think getting Coentrao is impossible and is definitely within reach. We were almost going to pay 15m for Cissokho but cancelled at the last minute, I think it is fair to say Coentrao is a much better option than Cissokho so I think going 5m extra for a player that will be a starter in this team for the next decade will be a very wise move.

and we can save a little money for the summer, let go of Seedorf, Pirlo and Ambrosini and get in CESC FABREGAS with the wages we save from those 3. Actually let me calculate how much those three make in wages: Seedorf 4.5, Pirlo 6m, Ambrosini 4m, that's 14.5 + another 14.5 for taxes so thats 29 MILLION we are spending every year on three players that are past their best.... Thats 29 million, with another 10 million, can bring the best midfielder in the world Cesc Fabregas, I wish Galliani considers him. Hope Cesc also realises that if he goes to Barca, he will not find any place.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Let's become realistic ...

What want clubs like Benfica with players like Coentrao or David Luiz ? They want money, a lot of money, but they also want to keep these players until the end of the season !!

When you look at the rumours about Coentrao going to Real Madrid, it seems there is an agreement but the player won't leave in January, only in June ...

What do we want right now ? WC players ? Not sure ... unless someone becomes available in this mercato (that means: leaves his club and joins us), it won't happen IMO. In this January month, what we are going to buy is players adding depth to the squad, and as a consequence, we're going to try to get players who aren't cup tied !! We need players who can make an impact now and can play in all the competitions. Someone is saying Cassano ? He's among the players of the previous category: WC (or almost) player available now.

So we should maybe stop dreaming about guys like Coentrao (we're no more even linked with him) during this January month, this kind of player is probably going to come this summer, but right now, that won't happen.

Listen, I'd LOVE for us to get Coentrao in the Summer. I don't feel we're good enough to win Champions League this year, but with 2-3 more signings, we can maybe challenge next year. The problem is that I think there will be a lot more competition in the summer for guys like D. Luiz, Coentrao, Ganso, Lamela, etc. which is why I'd snap them up now, and use them to help win us the Scudetto, which should be our main focus this year.

I would not mind:

Starting RB: Abate
Backup RB: Antonini, Zambrotta

Starting LB: Coentrao
Backup LB: Ziegler

Starting CB's: Nesta, T. Silva
Backup CB's: D. Silva, Astori, Sokratis

Dead wood to leave: Onyewu, Yepes, Jankulovski, Oddo