Viera or Gerard!!!!

Originally Posted by slicknick

P.S. Vieira could not really pull it off with Milan back in the day...

The only reason vieira did'nt stay with us then was that the bosman ruling had'nt come out till then, so we had to ship the 17 yr old.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

I think our midfield needs some re-shuffling to be honest, how long can we have Pirlo in the middle ? He can't tackle and isn't the quickest player around. Gattuso, for me is out of position, with his tackling and defensive qualities, why on earth is he on the right ? If anything he should be in a more central role, it would bring better balance to the team.

you need to watch some milan games. Pirlo surerly can tackle and he wins a lot of balls. I remember how some people said Scholes would hassle and stop him from helping Milan and guess what? I saw Pirlo take the ball from Scholes several times in the first game between us and Scholes didn't take it from Pirlo one single time! He wins a lot of balls. Sure he isn't the fastest around, but his role is to distribute balls and make killer passes, while his defensive work is a bonus. Gattuso in the middle instead of Pirlo would mean slower play and less ball posession, sure he may win some more balls, but waste them too.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

agree. if we do need stregthening in midfield I think there are better players out there for much cheaper.
Anyway, if I had to chose between these two, I would go with gerrard for he is younger and more eager.

You can as well mention names when you are at it.

Originally Posted by kris

You can as well mention names when you are at it.

Pizarro, Diarra, Juninho Pernambucano, Essien, Balack, Rosicky, Mascherano .......... I am sure there are at least 5-6 more but these are off the top of me head.
We could buy at least two of these for the money we would have to waste on Gerrard, and then pray that he would actually make in the Serie A, unlike most of his countrymen before him.

Pizarro, Diarra, Juninho Pernambucano, Essien, Balack, Rosicky, Mascherano .......... I am sure there are at least 5-6 more but these are off the top of me head.

They are cheaper players yes, and would be better options in terms of value but i dont think any of them are as good players as either Gerrard or Vieira. Ballack falls into the same category as world class but he wouldnt be much cheaper to buy and is 4 years older than Gerrard.

and then pray that he would actually make in the Serie A, unlike most of his countrymen before him.

I really think that is a weak point, i mean how many of his countrymen have tried to make it?

Same with the "Vieira failed at 17/18" argument, it has practically no bearing on the player he is today. Pirlo and Seedorf were a lot older than Vieira when they "failed" at Inter but that didnt stop them winning a European Cup with Milan !

You steza are too "biased" on Gerrard, man. I honestly doubt that your opinion of him would still be as high if he wasn't an Englishman.
As for Viera, IMO French players have been nothing but total success in Serie A, however, please don't call it a "weak point" when it comes to your beloved Gerrard for the last English player who was successful in Italy, to some extent, was David Platt, and the one before him - Denis Low, from 40 years ago.

Originally Posted by zlatanov

You steza are too "biased" on Gerrard, man. I honestly doubt that your opinion of him would still be as high if he wasn't an Englishman.
As for Viera, IMO French players have been nothing but total success in Serie A, however, please don't call it a "weak point" when it comes to your beloved Gerrard for the last English player who was successful in Italy, to some extent, was David Platt, and the one before him - Denis Low, from 40 years ago.

Hey, don't forget LUTHER BLISSET (miss it) just kidding.

Ray Wilkons was not bad at all.


And as regard Gerrard, I also beleive he is good enough to make it in serie A, and we would not get him simply because he's not available. For me he is a player that could make a positive difference in our team.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Hey, don't forget LUTHER BLISSET (miss it) just kidding.

I have heard that AcMilan were actually interested in another Watford player namely John Barnes, and some how ended up with Blisset, who scored 5 goals for us and was an absolute Flop.

Originally Posted by Maltese Charlie

Hey, don't forget LUTHER BLISSET (miss it) just kidding.

Ray Wilkons was not bad at all.


And as regard Gerrard, I also beleive he is good enough to make it in serie A, and we would not get him simply because he's not available. For me he is a player that could make a positive difference in our team.

OK, my bad - Ray Wilkinson from 25 years ago

Originally Posted by KhRiS

I have heard that AcMilan was interested another Watford player namely John Barnes, and some how ended up with Blisset, who scored 5 goals for us and was an absolute Flop.

Yes, I heard that as well, although it is very hard to me to believe such thing was a mistake. Even that in those times Milan were passing their worst period

Its Ray Wilkins !!!

You steza are too "biased" on Gerrard, man. I honestly doubt that your opinion of him would still be as high if he wasn't an Englishman.

Maybe, but i watch enough football to know a good player and Gerrard is one. Maybe your biased against English players too? You dont think they can succeed in Italy because a few tried in the 80's, of those, guys like Blissett and Hately had spent the bulk of their careers in the old English division 2 and people are surprised when they dont succeed at Milan?

Since then who has been to Italy? Gazza? he was crocked in the FA Cup final before he even joined Lazio and never recovered. Platt was as good in Italy as he ever was for mighty Aston Villa. Ince? as far as i know he did well. Beyond them who is there?

By the way, Denis Law is Scottish, though he was an English league player. He didnt like Italy and moved back to England where he became European player of the year with Utd Jimmy Greaves did the same, he wouldve have been a phenomenon in Italy but he couldnt handle the pre game sex ban

I have heard that AcMilan was interested another Watford player namely John Barnes, and some how ended up with Blisset, who scored 5 goals for us and was an absolute Flop.

yeah i've heard that too





Of the guys on your list who are in your eyes better than Gerrard, i genuinely believe only Ballack can match him. I mean seriously, you have the entire Lyon midfield in there, they have 3 players better than Gerrard and Vieira

What they actually have is 3 players who know there roles and compliment each other well, ie the sum is greater than the parts. Mascherano has proven little yet, Rosicky was linked with a £3m move to Spurs only a few weeks ago Pizarro is good but i wouldnt quite rank him with Gerrard and Vieira.

Originally Posted by Stezagud

Maybe, but i watch enough football to know a good player and Gerrard is one. Maybe your biased against English players too?

OK, sorry Ray for mispronouncing your name.
In fact, I am far from biased vs English, or Spanish, players but it is always helpful to look back and see these curious trends of how many of their countrymen failed to make it in the Serie A. I always judge players based on their individual qualities for it would be rather narrowminded to say that if Englishman A failed in Serie A, then the same couls be expected for Englishman B. However, there is something that "trends from the past" do show you, while judging Gerrard on his performances for LIverpool do not. I am sure you will agree that every league and country has its own phylosophy and understanding of how the game of football should be played or what constitutes a boring game, for example. And I am sure that this is namely the reason why we have such "trends from the past", if I may call them so.
See, my point is that Gerrard is great in England and may easily be a failure in Italy not because his technical qualities are that bad or will deteriorate if he changes the league, but namely because he as an Englishman has one understanding of the technical and tactical merits of the football game, and history shows that this undersatnding doesn't seem to flourish at the Apenine peninsula, while it will most probably have a lot of success in Spain, for example.
I say this, because by watching Gerrard, and I have done so many many times too, he doesn't strike me as an incredibly inventive player, gifted with jaw-dropping, brazilianlike technical qualities. He is a player who is far more suited to the British style of playing with lots of running, quick and often imprecise passing, and way too much space and time GIFTED to him to operate freely on the ball - things he may be able to find in Spain, but definitely not in Italy.
I am not even discuss in greater debth the "dangers" from the vast cultural change that Gerrard may experience if he does come to a country like Italy. And this has been the main problem for many, many players - not just coming to Italy from England but also the other way around - for if a player doesn't feel psychological comfort but is instead stressed out by this change, he will never be himself on the field either. And we see this happen to people all the time, not just in soccer but in all other aspects of life. Unfortunately and rather curiously, this is often being left out and hardly considered.

I won't bother posting my reply ... i had it all written out and it sure let off ALOT of steam at some people ... but what's the point, i'll just be called biased because i'm English and i'm supporting an English player. Plus it's an argument that i have no chance of winning ... it's only the premiership so people who perform there don't matter, their performances don't count. No one from England could ever settle in Serie A or be technically good enough ... all the players for Milan never have bad games or misplace passes ... i forgot that means my arguments aren't worth anything, sorry.

Originally Posted by Stezagud

Same with the "Vieira failed at 17/18" argument, it has practically no bearing on the player he is today. Pirlo and Seedorf were a lot older than Vieira when they "failed" at Inter but that didnt stop them winning a European Cup with Milan !

well, apart from the fact that u might have a point there is would like to point out that:
it was INTER they played at.......... anyone will flop at the recent inter, probably even ronaldinho. dude if we changed our squad with inters after 2 yrs we'd be acing their ass so badly. its simply the atmosphere in INTER the last 16yrs.

Originally Posted by Jim_UK

I won't bother posting my reply ... i had it all written out and it sure let off ALOT of steam at some people ... but what's the point, i'll just be called biased because i'm English and i'm supporting an English player. Plus it's an argument that i have no chance of winning ... it's only the premiership so people who perform there don't matter, their performances don't count. No one from England could ever settle in Serie A or be technically good enough ... all the players for Milan never have bad games or misplace passes ... i forgot that means my arguments aren't worth anything, sorry.

OK, I probably forgot to give examples for English players who I think will have a far greater chance of making it in Serie A than Gerrard simply because their game is more suited to Italy. The major reason why I think they would be more successful is because they are more complete players than Gerrard i.e. have superior ball technique and don't just run around, throwing tackles left and right:
Lampard, Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, and Terry.
Ferdinand - too big and clumsy.
I know they are not all midfielders but, honestly, these are the only players from the EPL/English NT, who have a real chance of making in Italy too and I would more than welcome any possibility of seeing them at Milan - probably without Ashley Cole for I am not entirely convinced in his defensive solidity, but apart from that he is a great modern left back in the game.

If you say so Zlatanov ... you and the other posters are always right.