Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by K77SH C

Kaka at Milan, for the last couple of seasons was far from a perfect concept. Why match that. Kaka, Pastore etc

Give me 11 hardworking, hungry, dynamic players over these anyday!

??
Pastore can only be compared to Kaka' for the way he dribbles !!

He's a more classical attacking midfielder, if you watch Palermo, you will often see Pastore helping in defence, taking the ball in the midfield (in the side of his team).

Technically amazing, fast, great passes, can score goals, he's on the way of the WC players (and it's his first season in Italy, he managed to become a key player of Palermo in few weeks) ...

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Zamparini said something that kept my attention ...
Pastore has an option to leave, it looks like it's a big amount, BUT he also said he wants him to renew his contract to put a 50M option ...

That means his option is lower than 50M.

Seriously, if it's something like 30M, we should put the money on the table and take the player without any doubt !!

I saw Pastore against Inter, and I was so impressed that I thought to write that we should get him no matter how much he costs. But, then again, I wanted to see him more before making a judgement.

The thing is, Pastore is HUGE talent, I see new Kaka in him (and I'm not alone ), his speed on the ball, combined with his control, is devastating and his team play is amazing for a player of his age. But, 30 M for 20 years old player, who played just half of season at the highest level, may be a bit too much.

Anyway, we have to make place for him first, as I see him as AM in 4-3-1-2, which means Ronaldinho has no place in the team, and I don't think that Ronaldinho and him can share the space on the pitch.

If Galliani decides to buy him, I think we should let him stay on loan at Palermo for next season, because I don't see him into our starting 11 for next season, especially if Leonardo stay. We could bring him back in January if needed, i.e. if Ronaldinho fails to impress.

It's tough decision, because if we fail to sign him now, we lost him for good most probably, but the same is for Dzeko.

But, most probably we will not get any of them, if Dzeko didn't signed already.

I dont know much about him, so if he is good then why not.

I suppose the point Im trying to make is that we need more than a 'saviour'.

I think we're being way too negative. And Silf, I don't think Galliani has been an abject failure in the last few years, not at all. I see several players brought in from Galliani that have been excellent, both with big prices (Pato) and small prices (Kaka) and for free (Flamini), and yes, there have been failures (Gila) and some unfortunate transfers (Gourcuff) but I think all-in-all, Galliani has done pretty well.

I don't see another team, the level of Milan, having to run on a budget as small as he does. Hell, teams that are smaller than us, like Napoli and Fiorentina, while not minnows at all, but certainly not in the same level as us, and they've had move money they we have. The only club that arguably has had less money than us, while being a top 4 team is Roma, and that's because they have been able to rely on their youth team, but also because they have taken players that we would say are garbage, and brought them to be worth something.

Look at Julio Sergio, Brighi returning to Roma, Tonetto, Casetti, Motta, and Taddei. No one was clamoring for Marco Motta when he transfers to Roma last winter, Taddei does a job for Roma, and Tonetto was called up for Azzuri even though he was in his 30's, while Julio Sergio is now their starter after being a journey man.

The reason why they've been able to do this, is that they've made smaller, smart signings, and combined it with their impressive youth department and young acquisitions. They have been able to rotate in Faty, Cerci (youth), it seems Okaka has a future at Roma, and Aleandro Rosi was an impressive player for a bit. While those players are not world beater, or WC, they contributed very importantly to Roma's cause, and let's not forget, Roma has relied on players from their youth department, most notably, Totti, De Rossi, Aquillani (until he transfered), who are the types of players that any team would love to grow themselves.

I think our mercato will feature more players like Abate and Antonini, and frankly, I am 100% for that. While Leonardo gets to take huge credit for this season, trying new tactics, bringing the best out of Ronaldinho, and getting us farther than anyone here predicted (where are the relegation fears, midtable, we were finished, right?) but it also must be said that he was aided considerably by Nesta's return, but also the smart choice to grab Thiago Silva, the return of Abate, while also being able to call upon Antonini and Flamini more often (Leonardo's choice) and pushing out Kaladze and Janku from the team, and if we had more Abate's and Antonini's, we would be a better team and we would be better able to transition this team.

I think Galliani knows that we need new players, I'm sure he's far more aware than anyone here. Its hard to make a huge transition, especially when you don't have Barca or Inter money.

Our mercato will be a little more positive I think, I can see us grabbing:

Mancini, Astori, Marcus, Paloschi, Yepes (confirmed), some random midfield players, and one big Huntelaar + cash swap. Plus, it might be that Inzaghi goes, but it seems obvious that Kaladze, Janku are done and Favalli is retiring. That is a lot of money to free up, so, I think we should be a little more positive and realize that we are second in the league when everyone who was "realistic" was saying we'd be midtable at best, humble pie?

Originally Posted by M.O.I.

although many wont believe that i will say this
yepes is one of the 3-4 best dc in the league this year,no doubt for me.

My 2 cents... I don't mind Yepes for depth. He's MORE than good enough to be our 4th cb. For me a bigger deal will be selling kaladze, gooch, not renewing favalli. That'll speak volumes to me. We've been linked to bonucci and astori. I expect Astore but Bonucci isn't impossible. We get one of those along w/ Yepes, Bonera, Nesta, Silva... pretty balanced/solid CB crew imo

Originally Posted by slifersd

Given a one billion euro budget, you and me can invest and make this team strong too. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to spend a crap load of money to sign players, but it does take a genius to figure out a way to work on limited budgets. For this reason, Galliani can only be considered a failure in the last 5 or so years as a GM. IF this is the best that he can do, then he should resign from his position because he freaking sucks at his job.

you'd think so but Perez seems to not be able to figure it out

Samaldinho, isnt that what people are unhappy about. Clubs like Roma make more shrewd decisions and look at Manchester United. They sold their superstar and replaced him with Valencia. They have as good a chance as anyone to win the CL with mediocre players like Paak, Valencia, Fletcher etc. Why because they have their stars and energetic water carriers.

If now is the time to sign Abate, Antonini type players then I say it was time 3 years ago. You can chop it and change it anyway you like, the reality is that Milan went from being arguably the most dominant club side in Europe to an embarassment. Our last games against English opposition are a sign of this. Man United, Arsenal and dont forget Man City and Portsmouth!

Originally Posted by K77SH C

Samaldinho, isnt that what people are unhappy about. Clubs like Roma make more shrewd decisions and look at Manchester United. They sold their superstar and replaced him with Valencia. They have as good a chance as anyone to win the CL with mediocre players like Paak, Valencia, Fletcher etc. Why because they have their stars and energetic water carriers.

If now is the time to sign Abate, Antonini type players then I say it was time 3 years ago. You can chop it and change it anyway you like, the reality is that Milan went from being arguably the most dominant club side in Europe to an embarassment. Our last games against English opposition are a sign of this. Man United, Arsenal and dont forget Man City and Portsmouth!

Gonna disagree there. Valencia isn't as dynamic as Ronaldo (who is?) but he has possibly best right cross in world and provides AWESOME service. Very effective player

Fletcher for my money is best CDM in world behind Essien and De Rossi. And he's closer to those 2 than next teir. Watch him consistently, he's a beast going forward and back.

K77, I don't think we need super stars to make this team better. Right now we are missing, Nesta, Pato, Beckham, Bonera and not to mention went through big spells without other players when we played Man Utd.

We have our stars, Pato, Ronaldinho are as good as any stars in world football. Pato is young and still learning, but Dinho has been nothing short of world class this season. I think you'll find the problem for us against Man United was that we did not have all of ours stars fit, or many of our water carriers, because of the lack of those types of players that you think we don't need.

Those types players mean that Nesta plays less, so does Pato, so does Pirlo, so does Ambro. It means that we can grind out games against Chievo without having to pull out all the stops, that we don't have to push ourselves to the end to make sure we can qualify for the CL and then hope to make it to the next round in the CL when we have to play the same team a few days later.

Ancelotti was able to play entire reserve teams before big CL matches, all most literally a starting 11 of reserves. I don't think Leonardo can do that. He did that twice, in the Coppa Italia.

We do need a player to replace Nesta, but that's extremely difficult to find. We need a new midfielder to compliment Pirlo and Flamini, and we need a striker who can take the scoring burden off of the rest of the team. However, we still do have Nesta, Borriello can chip in, and Ambro and Gattuso rotating doesn't seem to be that bad. However, if we bring in more players like that, it gives us more time, to find the "new" Nesta, Ambro/Gat, and striker.

I don't think its always just about money, its about availability and timing. Kaka was brought in for like 5 million? Whatever it was, it was under 10, for sure, and Gourcuff was brought in for a similarly small fee. We clearly can spot the talent, and it obviously doesn't mean we have to fork out 20 million per person or else we're sunk. Look at Chelsea, they tried to buy a CL and they couldn't. How about Real, they spent hundreds of million and ended up going out to a weaker team than we did in the CL.

So, if you ask me, I would rather get more Abate and Antonini-type players, because they are the difference between us losing out on 5th place a couple seasons ago, and getting fourth last year, and us currently being second in Serie A. Yes, we have to find new pillars, but maybe they'll come from our youth department? Maybe Astori will explode next year? Maybe we'll grab another Kaka? Who knows. But, what I do know is that we have to improve the strength of the squad, and that's why Man Utd can lose Ronaldo and play with Valencia, Park, and Fletcher (who I don't think are very bad) but its why if we lose Ronaldinho, Kaka, or somebody, we freak out. If we had more Park, Fletcher types of players, we'd probably would have beaten Man Utd.

Originally Posted by Milano84

at first i thought this but i STORNGLY disagree.

He is unwilling to cut any fat cause of posterity and personal relationships. You realize Milan has second highest wage bill in italy. For all Milan's financial 'issues' they still generate well over 200 million in revenue but hen $120 are going to players and a fat chunk to dida, pippo, gattuso, kaladze, oddo, jankulvski etc. It's a joke.

Look I love Dida, I love pippo, i love gattuso and all they've done for milan.... but i live MILAN more. It's ridiculous players keep getting extended on heavy wages well beyond there contribution. Pippo gets like 2.5-3 mil a year, but he barely players cause of his age. Gattuso? extended cause he wined to media, but why? He's in serious decline. And Galliani doesn't have the balls to sell Oddo, jankulovski or Kaladze cause they 'don't want to go'

You realize Pato is not even in top half of first team players in terms of wages. Why? Cause of age mostly. 20 year olds don't make same as 30.

For me this is 10000% galliani's fault. He needs to grow up and be an executive or leave. Exec's are paid to make TOUGH decisions, sometimes you have to fire your friend. I love keeping Milan a family, but at what cost? we can't keep every player who made 2 good tackles for 5 years past there usefulness

I totally agree...

Originally Posted by Samaldinho

K77, I don't think we need super stars to make this team better. Right now we are missing, Nesta, Pato, Beckham, Bonera and not to mention went through big spells without other players when we played Man Utd.

We have our stars, Pato, Ronaldinho are as good as any stars in world football. Pato is young and still learning, but Dinho has been nothing short of world class this season. I think you'll find the problem for us against Man United was that we did not have all of ours stars fit, or many of our water carriers, because of the lack of those types of players that you think we don't need.

Those types players mean that Nesta plays less, so does Pato, so does Pirlo, so does Ambro. It means that we can grind out games against Chievo without having to pull out all the stops, that we don't have to push ourselves to the end to make sure we can qualify for the CL and then hope to make it to the next round in the CL when we have to play the same team a few days later.

Ancelotti was able to play entire reserve teams before big CL matches, all most literally a starting 11 of reserves. I don't think Leonardo can do that. He did that twice, in the Coppa Italia.

We do need a player to replace Nesta, but that's extremely difficult to find. We need a new midfielder to compliment Pirlo and Flamini, and we need a striker who can take the scoring burden off of the rest of the team. However, we still do have Nesta, Borriello can chip in, and Ambro and Gattuso rotating doesn't seem to be that bad. However, if we bring in more players like that, it gives us more time, to find the "new" Nesta, Ambro/Gat, and striker.

I don't think its always just about money, its about availability and timing. Kaka was brought in for like 5 million? Whatever it was, it was under 10, for sure, and Gourcuff was brought in for a similarly small fee. We clearly can spot the talent, and it obviously doesn't mean we have to fork out 20 million per person or else we're sunk. Look at Chelsea, they tried to buy a CL and they couldn't. How about Real, they spent hundreds of million and ended up going out to a weaker team than we did in the CL.

So, if you ask me, I would rather get more Abate and Antonini-type players, because they are the difference between us losing out on 5th place a couple seasons ago, and getting fourth last year, and us currently being second in Serie A. Yes, we have to find new pillars, but maybe they'll come from our youth department? Maybe Astori will explode next year? Maybe we'll grab another Kaka? Who knows. But, what I do know is that we have to improve the strength of the squad, and that's why Man Utd can lose Ronaldo and play with Valencia, Park, and Fletcher (who I don't think are very bad) but its why if we lose Ronaldinho, Kaka, or somebody, we freak out. If we had more Park, Fletcher types of players, we'd probably would have beaten Man Utd.

A good argument.. but MU has a plan... they buy new players, they keep two-three experienced for some games... but not more They dont keep Phill Nevil (Favalli fe), they buy a younger one... They sign 1-2 good names per year and 2 like the players you decribe... They also have an excellent manager...

Sell some heavy contracts Dida, Janku, Kaladze (They are stupid teams like Panathinaikos to give a lot for him) and buy promising players after good scouting...

F.E Van De vaart, Striker (Djeco) and two promising...

Giorgos, I agree, Man Utd has utilized a plan very well. But they might have gotten rid of Phil Neville, but they still have his older brother Gary (35), they also still play Scholes (35), and Giggs (36), and a 40 year old GK in Van der Saar, and they depend on these players, and that's fine, but the reason why they are able to play as long as they do is because they have players who are not WC, are not starters, but prolong the playing career of these players.

I think we will get rid of Dida, Janku, Kaladze, and I think we'll be bringing in more players like Abate, Antonini and the like. Yepes is a great first step.

I'm not saying that Milan is great right now, no, if we were great, then we wouldn't have to think of serious changes to the squad. All I'm saying is that if we continue down this path, we can buy ourselves time so that either we get new investment, Berlu wants to spend money, or we can identify targets like Kaka and Gourcuff, who will come for far cheaper than Pastore.

I think this was a great season to build off of, and I think with a few more pieces we can really make a push. I think ridding the team of Janku, Dida, and Kaladze's wages alone will allow us to bring several hungry, motivated youngsters like Abate. I realize that Abate is no Maldini, but, I think he can become a far better player, especially considering he was not playing in his natural position for the vast majority of the year. Antonini actually looks like he deserves that LB position, and for a club as good as us.

But hey, Giorgos, since you are a PAOK fan, do you remember Shikabala? I think he'd be great for Milan, what do you think?

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

Goalkeeper:
Viviano (23)
Diego Alves (22, Zaragoza)
Marchetti (Cagliari)

Center Backs:
Santacroce (23)
Bonucci (20)
Rannocchia (20)
Alex (27, Chelsea)
David Luis (22, Benfica)

Fullbacks:
Drenthe (25, Real Madrid)
A.Masiello (Bari)
Tremoulinas (Bordeaux)


Midfield:
Hernanes (24, Sao Paolo)
Fernando (Porto)
Gourcuff (23, Bordeaux)
Van der Vaart (26, Real Madrid)
Gargano (26, Napoli)
Giovinco (25, Juve) -- I put him because seriously, how much longer is he gonna accept the bench?

Attack:
Robinho (26, Man City)
Adriano (29)
Dzeko (23, Wolfsburg)
Zarate
Amauri (just kidding)



Players highlighted in bold are the players that I think can be useful to us and are possible/likely targets.

That's a great list of players there.
-As a matter of fact, Viviano's contract should be expiring this summer according to a post at another forum.

-For the CB.....we would do extremely well if we were to get Bonucci. Santacroce has left a huge impression on me and it would be great if we can get him, but the only question mark I have now is how well he'll be after this bad injury he has suffered this year. But anyhow, one of these 2 would solve many problems. And we can at times play either one or Silva as a RB. That would look like the good old times when we had Stam here and that right side was virtually inaccessible to opponents. And if we put Silva there in some games.....I'm sure he'll do extremely well going forward too.

-for the fullbacks....Drenthe is a great choice. (by the way, he's only 22/not 25), but as i said a few days ago....getting Drenthe will do great deal to our midfield and attack also as we can certainly use him as a LCM or LW. His characteristics have everything necessary for him to perform those roles with high quality. As a matter of fact I would much rather get him for one of those positions then a fullback. But nonetheless.....he is a great choice and a great player.

-In your midfield choices....all of them would be great. VDV,Gourcuff(i don't know how much he'll be willing to come back here but i guess you never know), Hernanes. All great players. Giovinco(who is also 23/not 25) would be an impeccable signing...but it'll be hard.

-In the attack.....I would take out Adriano from that list....and add G.Rossi.


By the way, on the acmilan-online forum i saw a list of players whose contracts are expiring this summer. It's a long list so here it is...I'll just copy it here.

Bundesliga

Kevin Kuranyi FC Schalke 04
Mark van Bommel FC Bayern München
Thomas Hitzlsperger VfB Stuttgart
Paolo Guerrero Hamburger SV
Hamit Altintop FC Bayern München
Daniel van Buyten FC Bayern München
Cacau VfB Stuttgart
Aaron Hunt Werder Bremen
Jaroslav Drobný Hertha BSC
Timo Hildebrand TSG 1899 Hoffenheim
Petit 1.FC Köln
Makoto Hasebe VfL Wolfsburg
Roberto Hilbert VfB Stuttgart
Halil Altintop FC Schalke 04


EPL

Michael Ballack FC Chelsea
Joe Cole FC Chelsea
Deco FC Chelsea
Martin Petrov Manchester City
Morten Gamst Pedersen Blackburn Rovers
Fábio Aurélio FC Liverpool
Manuel Almunia FC Arsenal
Paul Scholes Manchester United
Louis Saha FC Everton
Patrick Vieira Manchester City
Benjani Manchester City
Juliano Belletti FC Chelsea
Jonathan Evans Manchester United
Edwin van der Sar Manchester United
Wilfred Bouma Aston Villa
Lucas Neill FC Everton
Simon Davies FC Fulham
Philippe Senderos FC Arsenal
Brett Emerton Blackburn Rovers


SPANISH LEAGUE


Maxi Rodríguez Atletico Madrid
Diego Godín FC Villarreal
Ruud van Nistelrooy Real Madrid
Juan Ángel Albín FC Getafe
Mariano Pernía Atletico Madrid
Kalu Uche UD Almeria
Raúl Tamudo Espanyol
Pablo Ibáñez Atletico Madrid
Christoph Metzelder Real Madrid
Sergio Canales Racing Santander
Robert Pires Villarreal
Francisco Yeste Bilbao



SERIE A


Taddei AS Roma
Fábio Simplício US Palermo
Mario Alberto Santana AC Fiorentina
Fabio Cannavaro Juventus
Per Krøldrup AC Fiorentina
Giuseppe Sculli FC Genoa
Julio Ricardo Cruz Lazio
Emiliano Viviano FC Bologna
Filippo Inzaghi AC Milan
Andrea Coda Udinese
Marco Cassetti AS Roma
Mark Bresciano US Palermo
Giovanni Pasquale Udinese
Aleksandar Lukovic Udinese
Ivan Juric FC Genoa
Stefano Lucchini UC Sampdoria
Luca Castellazzi UC Sampdoria
Cristiano Doni Atalanta
Andrea Consigli Atalanta
Lino Marzoratti Cagliari


FRENCH LEAGUE



Marouane Chamakh Girondins Bordeaux
Sidney Govou Olympique Lyon
Kim Källström Olympique Lyon
Jimmy Briand FC Stade Rennes
François Clerc Olympique Lyon
Marama Vahirua FC Lorient
Mouhamadou Dabo AS Saint-Etienne
Emir Spahic HSC Montpellier
Claude Makeléle FC Paris St. Germain
Laurent Bonnart Olympique Marseille



OTHERS:
Marko Pantelic Ajax
Joanthan de Guzman Feyenoord
Giovanni Van Bronckhorst Feyenoord
Simon Vukcevic Sporting Lisbon
Meyong Ze Braga
Aleksandar Kerzhakov Dynamo Moscow
Alexei & Vasili Berezutski CSKA
Konstantin Zyryanov Zenit
Dmitri Belorukov Amkar Perm
Harry Kewell Galatasaray
Filip Holosko Besiktas
Ibrahim Toraman Besiktas
Mehmet Yildiz Sivasspor
Rigobert Song Trabzonspor
Tony Silva Trabzonspor
Milan Jovanovic Standard Liege
Wesley Sonck FC Brugge


Again.....i don't know if this is 100% accurate as I'm just copying the post from a member on that forum. I don't know where he got his info from so if anyone knows something (that's not correct), let us know.

The way I see it for our defence it is like this... (I haven't got many thoughts on out offence or midfield)

As much as some of us like him, Dida must go.... Our GK department has not been stable for a long time, and quite frankly there is a strong link between this and Dida. The man will earn his place black with a string of excellent saves in some emergency appearance, but will ultimately drag us drown by letting through the easiest ones... Quite frankly I would much prefer a steadier hand at goal, not quite capable of pulling the miraculous saves of Dida, but with a cool head in such situations.... Who should we buy to macth those charcteristics? We DONT. Storari should be brought back from Samp to compete with Abbiatti, but the only way IMO that he will be willing to return is if our friend Nelson leaves. He may still have suitors in Brazil so we should be able to get something for him.... As for the possibility of a young keeper coming in, I don't think it is so desperate if Storari returns, but if so here a few names ot consider: Diego Alves, Sergio Asenjo and Vito Mannone.

As for our defence, I know this may not make much sense, but little may be needed to be spent. To me Yepes has come relatively cheap, and is a great upgrade from favalli... BUT HE IS NOT THE ANSWER.

Rumours have it that Astori will be expensive to get back. If we can get him back, getting a regular at Serie A level would be fantastic! However if his current club wish to kepe him and play hard ball and buy him for 7 million, let i be! With 7 million and the revenue generated from Kala's sale, we can really get someone good, capable of filling in for Silva/Nesta, and putting competitive pressure on both....

Will you people stop having wet dreams of Astori? He is no where near good enough for Milan and is not even good enough to be a backup, and neither is Paloschi right now.

Milan needs to take it to the next level, get someone like Santacroce that is already world class. Milan also needs to remove Galliani just for one summer because this guy shows too much sympathy to these players by constantly extending their contracts and not selling them (just like Gattuso). We need someone with BALLS running the market and we definitely need some cash.

The Milan ultras did all they could by boycotting the Milan games this year and not buying season tickets, but it seems that Leo's miraculous work of getting such a crappy squad to second place will blind the management and convince them this lot can go all the way next year. I believe the fans should take action by rioting, I don't care how uncivilized it is or how crazy it sounds, Milan is falling apart with B&G and all we are doing is just watching.

Originally Posted by nefremo

Bundesliga

EPL

SPANISH LEAGUE

SERIE A

FRENCH LEAGUE

OTHERS:

Again.....i don't know if this is 100% accurate as I'm just copying the post from a member on that forum. I don't know where he got his info from so if anyone knows something (that's not correct), let us know.

I almost saw no potential Milan player (anyway I hope) in that list ... :s