Banter 2009/2010

Totnem vs Celsea 2-0 Garet Bale.........

Joe Hart, but i don't think city will sell.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Abate better than Rafael ?
I would say they have the same level nowadays, but Rafael is 18 (or 19 now) and will probably be a WC player.

If you want to compare our team to the one of Bayern, well we don't have much more (argh, that gives me pain to say such a thing) ...

The problem is that again, someone compares two teams on just 2 games against the same opponent, which is again, useless ...

So I take again my example: we beat Catania away, Inter was litterally destroyed in Catania. Have we better players ?

Please, your comparisons are ridiculous. Inter with 100% concentration would smash Catania on any day, especially if title would depend on it, and our current team can't beat them even when title depends on it. Hopeless.

On opponent, my comparison is real as it gets, 1/8 finals and quarter finals of CL, games of same height, lose over two legs and you are out. 4 games played within a month and a half. We're eliminated by Manchester with 7-2 total, less than a month latter Manchester was eliminated by Bayern on away goal.

You said it well, we don't have MUCH better team than Bayern, but we both agreed we have a better team, let it be say 2% better, but still better. Then, who's guilty for our humiliation against Manchester, when a month latter a 2% worse team eliminated them?! Honestly, Van Gaal is a master tactician, Leo is totally out of his league, but I don't have ANY doubts that we would eliminate Manchester with any better coach, even authority-less Ancelotti.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Well, I'm afraid it's not only with Brazil ...
If we look at our last transfers:
- Flamini wasn't an unknown player at all (he had the "new Gattuso" name)
- Gourcuff was already very hyped in France (let's not forget he arrived with the "new Zidane" name pasted on his face)
- Pato was very hyped in Brazil (and even in the world when he scored in the World Cup of clubs against Barcelona if I'm not wrong)
- Thiago Silva was a known player in Brazil, maybe the most unknown in Europe among these 4 players

The problem is that I tried to take the only interesting or potentially interesting players we bought recently in Europe, but only found them and had to add the Brazilian prospects too (because just two names isn't really good to prove something !!) ...

The question is: Do we have any scout ?! If we do, where are they, what is their work, when will they manage to get interesting players ?

Why don't we try to take one or two scouts from teams like Benfica (Brazil) or Porto (Argentine), you know, guys who know their work, who have the aim of finding 2-3 potentially future stars for the smallest amount of money (even if sometimes, they buy a hyped player, but it's not like if these clubs did it each season), or even scouts from smaller teams but doing a good job with almost no money (the small club in Portugal finding Cissokho, I don't know if they were lucky, but they took the guy from nowhere in France, in 3rd division ... even in France, nobody knew him before going to Porto), or from financially average teams (Palermo with Cavani, Pastore - Napoli with Hamsik, Lavezzi).

EDIT: If we had the scouts of Benfica/Porto, we could buy, each season or almost, the two non-EU players we need in South America, for a more or less small amount of money, and buy one established player in Italy or more generally Europe. It would be enough (but before being able to do such a thing: we'll need a little more this summer and the following one) ...

For the last point (Palermo, Napoli), these teams are actually on a trend letting us think they will invest more than us in the coming years ... and it's why we should be worried, because if Juventus can get a proper management again and as a consequence, a good team in the coming years, if Palermo and Napoli keep investing, and if we just do what we do nowadays, well, even a place for Europa League will be a "dream".

In Italy, Fiorentina is going to suffer this summer: they're the Italian Bordeaux (or Bordeaux is the French Fiorentina ) ... Everyone wants their coach to be the NT coach, this coach is very important to the eyes of the players, and the results are not very good, which means there could be no qualification for an European competition (for both: no CL, because Europa League shouldn't be their goal and never was).
That means there could be players to get in these both clubs, and by knowing the problems of management in Fiorentina (with the Della Valle leaving/coming + rumours), I think we could at least try to get one or two players from there without having to overspend (they will have no way to negotiate higher prices if they don't qualify for CL and the players ask to leave).



I apologize !!
But aren"t you Leonardo hiding under a false identity on MM ?!

Great post, Geo...
Regarding the scouts part, I tend to agree we don't have one... at least one is respected by our board.

Just to show what means great scouting, I remember a interview with Abel Braga (Inter coach), and the man promoted Pato to Inter first team, saying they needed to delay Pato's first team appearance for almost the entire Brasileirão, because he didn't have a professional contract yet.

All this because a coach of a England team was in the town trying to watch that 15yo kid to play and see if was worth a bid. As Inter's coach said, they even started to work out with closed doors. Who was the coach? Arsene Wenger... Thats scouting.

Your points about Napoli and Palermo is what scares me. While we are astray, these teams are improving their squad.

As you said, Juve is a coach away from to be a contender, and I believe they will invest more next season... Is there any chance they contract Bordeaux coach? What's your opinion?

Regarding the false identity, I'm trying the best with what I inherited, thanks for the support here in MM... Ops!
Nahhh, I heard from a inside source that Leo is fishing from "Kaká's father..." thread for years... Thats don't hurt my ego, but I hope he sends me a little chips

Originally Posted by Revolver

Please, your comparisons are ridiculous. Inter with 100% concentration would smash Catania on any day, especially if title would depend on it, and our current team can't beat them even when title depends on it. Hopeless.

On opponent, my comparison is real as it gets, 1/8 finals and quarter finals of CL, games of same height, lose over two legs and you are out. 4 games played within a month and a half. We're eliminated by Manchester with 7-2 total, less than a month latter Manchester was eliminated by Bayern on away goal.

You said it well, we don't have MUCH better team than Bayern, but we both agreed we have a better team, let it be say 2% better, but still better. Then, who's guilty for our humiliation against Manchester, when a month latter a 2% worse team eliminated them?! Honestly, Van Gaal is a master tactician, Leo is totally out of his league, but I don't have ANY doubts that we would eliminate Manchester with any better coach, even authority-less Ancelotti.

I have to ask you if you are serious there ...
Ok, so let's choose another game, instead of Catania ?!
Roma for example ? You wanted an important game for the title, then you have it: Roma-Milan and some weeks after, Roma-Inter.

We drawed, they lost, and ?
You're able to make conclusions from that ?

Then, your comparison between Bayern and Milan is also useless as for example, Rooney wasn't in the same form ?! We played the second leg without both Nesta and Pato ... If at least MU had Rooney as in form against Bayern as against us (no injury), if at least we had all our players, if ...

This comparison is just as ridiculous as mines, but mines are just done to show you that these comparisons are all useless, ridiculous, use the words you want, because I don't want to compare Milan with another team thanks to one or two games !!

PS: Overall, what I meant is that we can't really claim we are better than Bayern ... our defence is as good as theirs, or a little better, our midfield isn't stronger nowadays, and near the goal, they have a Robben in fire and a good Ribéry back from injury (this guy starts to seriously annoy me: some weeks ago, he said he actually wanted to join a team really able to win the CL, which, for him, wasn't the case of Bayern, and right now he postpones each time the day when he will say if he stays or leaves Bayern, it's just a total lack of respect for his club and their fans, and thanks B&G for not taking this ... no, I stop there, going to be polite).

Originally Posted by devoted_dm

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2559/...-summer-report


Looks like we're in for another disappointing summer on the transfer market. Not surprising. I'm so tired of Berlusconi's lack of ambition on Milan's behalf. I really wish he would sell up...

I agree man I agree!!!!!

Read something interesting today from the guy from the bank of Scotland (can't remember his name its something like brougham) who is trying to sell Liverpool for them.
He said that any new owner's cannot buy the club on the back of any revenue made by the club that would put them into debt straight away...If you follow.
But he also said (and this is the bank that Liverpool owe over 300 million to remember) that they don't expect the club to have 0 debt that would just be silly and mis managing the club as it would not be able to compete for players and trophies and in a matter 5 - 10 years would lose even more money .....Intersting as Liverpool are no Madrid Barca Man Utd Inter or Chelsea , but even the bank they owe money to say it is ridiculous to expect them to run the club with no debt.

Berlu wants a profit he'll get one when he sells Pato got one when he sold Kaka maybe another one when Silva leaves but after that he'll be left with a huge financial burden that has no sell on value.

Originally Posted by Brasileiro

As you said, Juve is a coach away from to be a contender, and I believe they will invest more next season... Is there any chance they contract Bordeaux coach? What's your opinion?

I think the short-term destiny of Laurent Blanc is to be the coach of the French NT and nothing else ...

That would also open the door for us to make a bid for Gourcuff as Gourcuff said he would like to follow Blanc if he leaves, but if Blanc becomes the French NT coach, he won't be able to follow him anywhere.

Anyway, I don't think that's in our plans.

Wouldn't it be good if both Gourcuff (read the second paragraph of this post) and Kaka' (he's in bad form and/or condition, both are linked, and instead of protecting him against medias and socios, Real Madrid don't do anything, which shows they don't care about their players) were back next season ?

We would suddenly have a strong midfield again by just welcoming back our former players (buying Gourcuff + ask for a loan of Kaka' with an option to buy him for example ?).

Originally Posted by hitmannq8

Brasiliero, just to answer your question...

Thiago Neves is not doing bad at all playing for Al Hilal (saudi arabia)...but he is not world class. They also have Wilhemsson (former Roma player) and he is ripping everyone apart there, he's playing like Messi over there.

With all due respect, I think Revolver is a very biased user and can not separate what he wants from what is needed (see topic Dzeko).

No one can with a normal amount of sanity can ask for Leo to be out unless they had some other things in mind (example - man crushes on Huntelaar).


BTW -- why is Montreal announcing that AC Milan and Fiorentina are coming to Montreal to play against Montreal United (I'm not even sure what our team is called?) on June 2 and May 25th respectively? There's nothing about this anywhere from Milan, but Montreal are gonna sell tickets this week.

Thanks for the information, man.
All I hear here in Brazil is that T. Neves was benched in Al Hilal, so I presumed he was doing bad there...

Originally Posted by shegs1157

Well, i admit Hunt isn't bigger than the system. And everyone makes mistakes at times.
P.S.
Thanks for not 'attacking' me.

shegs, I just come back several pages, read a lot of your posts, and you do not seem like a typical hater. Still a hater, but unlike the others that I know, still didn't swear anyone(that I saw! )

So, after read this, I want to clarify the adjectives (clueless, unfair, contradictory) that I wrote on that post, were not for you as a person, but for your argument, your post. The others guys too, are attacking the post and not the poster. So, don't take it personal, ok?

I still think your love(no offense) for Hunteelar, is keeping you blind regarding Leo's work. All the people supporting Leo here(BIG majority), recognize his mistakes, but the difference is, we don't shut the eyes for his right moves, or his improvement as a coach through the year.

Also, the more you try, the more contradictory become your base of arguments... just my opinion.

So, I will not jump on the debate because I still think it's punch the tip of the knife... Also, I'm not so civilized as the others, and I don't have more age for to be reprehended by the mods

i dont want Kaka to come to Milan again,he is in decline since 2007 and he failed at Real...Loaning Kaka and buying Gourcuff back...Galliani wont do that cuz it would be that admitting his mistake and stupidness and selling the player for 15 m euros then buying the same player after 1 year,for at least 25 m euros is not the thing that Galliani would do...we wont sign Gourcuff,but Loaning Kaka would be something Galliani do yet i wouldnt do it...he made his decision and he left...there is no come back...

By the way,you are saying that Bayern has better squad than Milan?Are you kidding Right?Both Bayern and Man U are much better squads than us...

Ronaldinho who is the king in Serie A yet failed at high tempo of CL...Pirlo,Silva,Nesta and Pato,the rests are average...

if you call Olic as average player or Muller is a player that you dont want to comment,im speechless here,Muller is quality and useful player,i'd rather to have Muller than inzaghi or poacher...cuz he is useful,knows how to move,where to stay and great finisher,just look at his movement,its amazing...he is versatile player unlike ours...

Their CB's are weak compared to ours,yet they are all better than Favalli's Kaladzes and Boneras...

Their side backs are better than ours...

Okay we have better slightly better Central midfielders than theirs,MVB is a joke...i always wondered why they keeped him in the squad and they even renewed their contract...Bastian,Altintop are quality midfielders...

They have Robben and Ribery,we have walking Ronaldinho and Pato.i'd not change Pato with Robben yet Everyone would be pleased with Ribery...

Bayern has better squad than us...United so...

@shegs1157 Huntelaar is just a poacher and however you are talking like he is Messi...he is no Messi,just a good poacher...i really wonder what you see in him that we are all not seeing...

Originally Posted by Rabia15

i dont want Kaka to come to Milan again,he is in decline since 2007 and he failed at Real...Loaning Kaka and buying Gourcuff back...Galliani wont do that cuz it would be that admitting his mistake and stupidness and selling the player for 15 m euros then buying the same player after 1 year,for at least 25 m euros is not the thing that Galliani would do...we wont sign Gourcuff,but Loaning Kaka would be something Galliani do yet i wouldnt do it...he made his decision and he left...there is no come back...

We sell 50% of some players for almost nothing and pay "big amounts of money" (not big, but more than what we asked firstly) then to take back this half-part ...
So selling Gourcuff for 15M and buying him for 25M now isn't something that would shock me at all !!

Asking for Kaka' (he will probably be in better form after this summer and some holidays) on loan would be something good for our midfield as he would offer a "new" solution to the team.

About your last sentence, it's a bid hard, if we gave a second chance to Sheva (even if it was an error), why couldn't we give a second chance to Kaka' ? You know, asking for a loan with a 25-30M option for the player is just a win-win situation: if he fails, we let him go back to Real (and we can let him on the bench if he can't perform well, we don't care), and if he manages to be in form again, we pay less than what we asked to Real !!

But with just these two players, and one or two defenders, our team would be much better !! Even without buying any new striker ...

finally albertazzi gets called up, now that's left is get de vito called up then astori back, i was realistic with milans mercato i dont live in fifa or football manager world

And I m Hunti fan to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etdyg4er2YY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqZ7krTHC38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQbNneMKzsU bicycle
fantaziaaaaaa......

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Roma for example ? You wanted an important game for the title, then you have it: Roma-Milan and some weeks after, Roma-Inter.
We drawed, they lost, and ?
You're able to make conclusions from that ?

Then, your comparison between Bayern and Milan is also useless as for example, Rooney wasn't in the same form ?! We played the second leg without both Nesta and Pato ... If at least MU had Rooney as in form against Bayern as against us (no injury), if at least we had all our players, if ...

This comparison is just as ridiculous as mines, but mines are just done to show you that these comparisons are all useless, ridiculous, use the words you want, because I don't want to compare Milan with another team thanks to one or two games !!

PS: Overall, what I meant is that we can't really claim we are better than Bayern ... our defence is as good as theirs, or a little better, our midfield isn't stronger nowadays, and near the goal, they have a Robben in fire and a good Ribéry back from injury (this guy starts to seriously annoy me: some weeks ago, he said he actually wanted to join a team really able to win the CL, which, for him, wasn't the case of Bayern, and right now he postpones each time the day when he will say if he stays or leaves Bayern, it's just a total lack of respect for his club and their fans, and thanks B&G for not taking this ... no, I stop there, going to be polite).

I'm not making any conclusions from ONE game. I just wrote that "if..." to show that your comparison is silly.

CL is most important challenge for any big team in the world, in elimination phase there's no relaxing, team can't afford to lose the game, all teams are 100%, no underrating of the other team...

Now, in the first half of Manchester game we proved we're clearly better team, and then suddenly we're losing the game we should won by 3 goals to 0, because our coach isn't capable to react on changes. Second leg, it was hung ho with half of our team injured and a humiliation.

Then, a month latter, Bayern - Manchester first game, first half, Manchester is clearly better team, Bayern is all over the place, it's not even funny, and then suddenly Bayern wins the game, because their coach is capable to react. Second leg, same thing.

Just don't tell me we were eliminated because of Favalli (as we didn't stood the chance in the second leg, without many players). Leonardo knew we're short on side backs long before Manchester game. He's was persistent to play Favalli on the left, knowing that he's slow and can't fit in offside-game. Why he didn't try Flamini as LB? I mean, there's a man who can play SB position at very high level (as proved last season), he's third choice at his original position, why not try him as a SB? Especially when you actually have just two quality SBs (Antonini and Bonera; Zambrotta is third but he's always injured) that can fit your system, and one of them is a natural CB and the only good cover CB you have. It was even better to try Kaladze at SB, yes he has lapses of concentration, by he's positionally stronger and faster than Favalli. Leonardo is guilty for letting Favalli be his only choice if one of SBs is injured.

Originally Posted by Revolver

I'm not making any conclusions from ONE game. I just wrote that "if..." to show that your comparison is silly.

Man, you must be kidding me, aren't you ?
I mean, I'm not the guy who started with comparisons on one or two games, I just chose some examples just to show that this kind of comparison is useless !!

Damn, it's because I don't know how to translate it in English, but it's called "raisonnement par l'absurde" in French, which means that I showed something wrong (here: I used the same kind of comparison as you, your one was Bayern-MU/Milan-MU, or the one of Shegs, Bari-Inter/Milan-Inter or Catania-Inter/Milan-Inter ... so mine was just Roma-Milan/Roma-Inter) to explain my point (useless to compare two teams thanks to/because of one or two games).

With such comparisons, you can conclude all and its contrary !! It's what I wanted to show, but you do like if you don't understand or don't want to understand and now you write like if I was the first one to make these comparisons here ?!

Originally Posted by Revolver

Now, in the first half of Manchester game we proved we're clearly better team, and then suddenly we're losing the game we should won by 3 goals to 0, because our coach isn't capable to react on changes. Second leg, it was hung ho with half of our team injured and a humiliation.

The first leg isn't a mistake of Leo but of the team: how is it possible to have 45 minutes like we had from the 35th to the 80th.

The problem was actually the "lazy" players not covering and not helping to defend !! But what can Leo do during the game ? Replacing Pato and Ronaldinho who decided that they weren't needed to help to defend ?
I'm curious to know your perfect subs during that game, your perfect changes, by knowing that you lost Antonini at the end of the first half (the only other defender available for that game was Favalli, all others were injured, so it's not like if Leo had many choices here), and as a consequence, you only have 2 possible subs.

About Bayern, tell me what did their coach ? Give me one change he did and influenced the final result ?
Manchester has to be blamed for that result as well as our whole team has to be blamed for the first leg against Manchester (it was clearly impossible to keep a clean sheet in the first leg for us when you saw the way Scholes scored his goal ...).

Originally Posted by Revolver

Just don't tell me we were eliminated because of Favalli (as we didn't stood the chance in the second leg, without many players). Leonardo knew we're short on side backs long before Manchester game. He's was persistent to play Favalli on the left, knowing that he's slow and can't fit in offside-game. Why he didn't try Flamini as LB? I mean, there's a man who can play SB position at very high level (as proved last season), he's third choice at his original position, why not try him as a SB? Especially when you ...

Flamini as LB ?
Last season, and in Arsenal in some games, Flamini played as a RB and did well (even if he doesn't like that position). Does that mean he can be a good LB ? He played only once or twice there when he was in Arsenal and wasn't that good, do you think it's a good choice to use him there, to try him in a CL game ? And if Leo did it (the result could have been worse), everyone would have said that the loss was because of Leo's choice ...

Brilliant idea !!

And again, the only defenders available were Favalli and Abate (but it looks like you don't count him among the defenders, so ...), all others were injured (no Kaladze for example).

And about your first sentence I put in bold in this last part, no, I won't say that the loss was because of Favalli, but again and again because of the whole team as it's like if our guys slept for 45 minutes in the first leg. Actually, I even don't know why you wrote this because it never was my intention to say "this player all alone has to be blamed" ...

And to conclude before going to bed, it's too easy to say that the players perform well when we win and to say that the coach is bad when we lose ...
We wouldn't be where we are if Leo didn't try something in the first Roma game: we would probably be with Juventus right now, fighting for a 5th or 6th place at best ...

Did you even watch the Milan Vs ManU game, where to me, ManU first goal was the FLUKE GOAL OF the YEAR. Their second was good, as they pressed hard on the right side, and to be honest, I don't think there is a LB playing currently that could contain Valencia's speed. On top of that, it was a great header from Rooney and Dida should really have done better with the high cross. Then on the 3rd goal, both NESTA and T. SILVA fell asleep, which never happened the whole season. Overall, what is your ground on blaming Leo in that game.
1st goal=Fluke goal of the year and 3rd goal=the pillars of Milan fell asleep during a CL game in the knockout stage at home. Should Leo have put Kala and Ambro as CB instead?
As for in game changes, do you even know who was on the bench at that time? And like you said, Milan pretty much owned ManU in the first half and the score was 1-1. Should Leo brought in Pippo and Seedorf at half time along with Favalli? If there is anyone to blame in that game or both legs, that person should be Hunter as he should have scored in the first half but he didn't.

Then on the second leg, there were just too many injuries for Milan to deal with in an away match.

What do you think Carlo would have done in that game? Having to play against a midfield who were high workrate and high pressure with the most inform striker on the planet at that time? IT will just be a repeat of what happened against Arsenal.

Stop blaming Leo for the losses and ignore his contributions on Milan victories-which the last time I checked were much more than losses.