Sampdoria vs Milan (March 1, 2009 )

Originally posted by rt9

Sometimes change has to be made for the sake of change. I think this Milan is nothing short of stale, predictable, lacking in passion. Even management has become predictable.

Agree this ponit.the only solid accusation acceptable carlo should leave!

Second thought, what about let go the majority of our players,bring 10 young players of quality.just like fergusson rebuild his second empire.I just envy how can he survive the ****hole his first glory period faded away when that group of players getting old and unmotivated.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Vadim:

1) I agree and this will also mean that players, except a few, have to go. What you depict is very grim, indeed. you raise a good key point: Sacking the coach is not going to make a difference. We need some passion, fire, and motivation. That FEELING of winning.

The only issue is: Is it because they don't have it anymore because they have won so many in the past, or is it because they are on a losing streak and makes them feel less self-efficacious and less passion?

2) FLame please edit your signature as mods request.

Bosniaco:

1) "Chelsea was in the running for the Premiership, CL, Cups, an still fired Scolari".

Exactly: They are still, and probably will be, just runnning for the Premiership, CL, Cups. Sacking Scolari is a totally immature act and shows once again why Chelsea is going to lose again.

If we decide to lose patient with coachES just because losing streak, then trust me no one is going to make it through a year.

***

For now, let's hope that Kaka` and R80 will be back soon (Let alone those who have been missing for ages like Gattuso & Borriello & Nesta). It seems that we are just not the same team without them.

J

Losing streaks? Dude Carlo has not won anything in years, when was the last scudetto? We won the CL because of Kaka in 2007, yes Kaka won the CL in the 2007. How many times did Carlo mess up the games and lost points because of his subs and formations and choice of players. All that makes him needed to be fired, plus ofcourse let go of some players too.

Originally Posted by Bosniaco

Losing streaks? Dude Carlo has not won anything in years, when was the last scudetto? We won the CL because of Kaka in 2007, yes Kaka won the CL in the 2007. How many times did Carlo mess up the games and lost points because of his subs and formations and choice of players. All that makes him needed to be fired, plus ofcourse let go of some players too.

I have already argued why it's not just Kaka`, but let's rest the conclusion that Carlo should be gone.

Peace.
J


edit: Remember - if we want to pick someone's shortcomings, we can always do it in our life. The question is: whether it's better or for worse. Picking on Carlo now probably is for better, but how many times have we been wronged.

At the end of the day, it's very much on hindsight (what sociologist will call functionism if I remember correctly): that is, we can explain virtually everything by the results. Just like, of course, I claim that selling Gilardino is a mistake, it's probably a hindsight bias (on my part).

Look, Carlo sub Antonini with Inzaghi, an offense move that no one seems to pick on (because Inzaghi didn't score). Then when he sub Beckham with Emerson, people pouring him like crazy for not being attack minded. And when Favalli sub in for Janku, it's just a terrible move. Then look at the bench: We have Maldini (sub Janku with Maldini, and we will criticize Maldini has past his prime and can't play 3 games a week), Dida (ok let's not go into it), Shevchenko (no way you'll sub Pato/Inzaghi with Sheva, so again with Janku; but if we sub Sheva with Janku, who is going to provide the public? or sub a defender? Then who is going to defend? Damn you Carlo); Then we have Cardacio, (Ok, let's be fair we should sub Beckham with Cardacio, and Milan is going to win).

What I'm trying to show? It's a damn-if-you-do and damn-if-you-don't situation. The key is not about who Ancelotti subs: The key is who is on the bench.

We all know the answer is very bleak.

***
But of course, Carlo should have just changed the formation to like 3-4-1-2, 3-3-2-2, 3-5-2, 4-1-2-1-2 or whatever, whatever different from what he is playing now and things will work out.

I don't know what it is, but Carlo should have figured it out. If not, he should be fired.

This seems to be the logic running here.

***
Again, my idea is very clear: If I want to pick on someone to criticize, it's easy. Everyone has his/her shortcomings. Me too, but once again the question is whether we will actually help the person (or team) be a better man by pointing out his/her mistakes/shortcomings. If not, we are simply venting our anger, not solving the problem.
***

Looking down the injury list is shocking. 6 out of the 11 starters are missing:
23. M. Ambrosini
13. A. Nesta
8. G. Gattuso
80. .. Ronaldinho
35. Z. Kalac
22. R. Kakà
11. M. Borriello

Unless we don't consider R80 as a started, we have half the team missing.

So what, so what should we do now? What's the immediate next step to savor us from losing the CL spot?

We need a solution, FAST, because Carlo, or whoever the manager is next, may well be reading.

***

Do we have a solution? Yes - if we sack the coach now, we'll be able to have some rejuvenation, something afresh, something new, I don't care what it is, but it's new.

It's all good to go.

Wow.. what a shocking. I thought it would be our victory as we just got kicked out from UEFA tournament (which is very ashame ). Based on our habbit usually we will have a win after one humiliated occasion. But wow.. what a shocking ! It was too many nerves on my mind when I saw the game. Pazzini, Cassano and co come and go to build attack. And it was many thrilling moments for Senderos. Antonini also had a nightmare here.. I was laughing when Carlo tried to sub Janku with Favalli.. but hey it turned out to be our only good and legal crossing For me it was almost another joke when Carlo tried to sub Beck with Emo.. but well Emo created a dissalowed goal at least I wont argue with Cassano's goal was legal or not.. the point is we let him do that and that should be a homework for us. I think it is the time to let Carlo picks another job/team. I am not against Carlo but you cant forever stay in one team because maybe you will have lack of idea or something like that.. unless you are Sir Alex.. We need a coach who can have his independent opinion to give his opinion heard by management but the one like Mourinho we can pass him

This season when kaka was available, he did the one man show for milan. Lately when kaka injured, Pato's doing the one man show for milan. Against il samp, milan was all about Pato
Everytime ball on his feet, we desperately hope something happened magically

In the modern football, the gap among the coaches regarding the tactics and technical issues is IMO becoming narrower each year. We've seen that even the self annointed Special One struggled against some serie A smaller clubs. Therefore the decisive factors are the quality of the players and the motivation of the squad.

Without a doubt we have a very quality team who has won everything. Carletto, Berlu, and Galliani made me sick when they say those things about "this is the same team (and medical staff etc) that won everything, bla bla bla." To them, the world stands still while in fact as we all know, it doesn't. Other teams have significant changes added to their teams, while the core of our team remains the same through out the years. The same winning team, only now laden with glory and rheumatism.

That brings us to the motivation aspect. SAF for years have been mainly sticking to the 4-4-2 scheme and relying on the wings to attack. But why does he keep on winning anyway? What separates him from most coaches? I believe it's largely due to his capability in motivating the players. He has the winning character and if the players show the slightest signs of showing anything less than 100%, he made it clear it's unacceptable.

Rio Ferdinand's word here sum it up all for me

“The gaffer [Ferguson] is phenomenal. He is a winner, full stop," the England international explained. "He can still do the hairdryer. I've seen players turn pink and black guys turn white. It's not pretty, it is unbelievable!”

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/englan...-rio-ferdinand

Man Utd won the Cl last year, won the World Club Cup this year, just won the Carling Cup last night, and are in contention to win the league. That is what a top football club should aim for and be able to acheive (at least give it a proper shot).

We on the other hand, win the CL in 2007, while being completely out of contention in the league, win the World Club Cup and then crash---finishing 5th in the league, missing out on CL, and be so far away from Inter, with Juve finishing ahead of us. This is a not how a top football club should be managed. So from the almighty Milan, we have become a club that can only challenge for one thing a year?

This Milan has won trophies under Ancelotti, but have we been a consistent FORCE in the league? Have we been competitive over the last few years? It takes a good run in the latter stages to win the UCL, but it takes quality and consistency over a long season to win the league? When was the last time we won the league? This is pathetic.

I missed the game due to not being able to get a feed, but find this argument about Carlo very interesting. I think most here will know I've lost my patience with the man, though in all honesty he should remain until the end of the season as it's very difficult for another coach to help the side at this stage of the season.

It appears as though people want to (at times) pin the blame in a specific aspect of the club, whether it be on the coach, the management, the players or even other staff. It's because we as fans would like to believe it's a case of "fix this and we will dominate again". So the arguments often appear to be "the management need to make great buys so Carlo has the tools to work with", or "Carlo needs to go because he is doing badly with what he has" or "Such and such players need to go as they are rubbish" or even "Milanlab need to do better as we have too many key injuries".

For me, all of these are true to some degree. The management haven't made the greatest purchases in recent years and it shows in our lack of depth and quality in some areas. The players are underperforming and some really need a good kick up the backside. Milanlab are supposedly one of the best sporting health facilities in the world, and having so many long term and key injuries isn't acceptable.

However, we all know we're in transition right now between the last generation and the new generation at Milan. This is exactly why it's a decent time for Carlo to leave, he's given a lot to Milan and deserves thanks, but really he's not utilizing the resources he has (let's face it, we've got a stronger squad than all but Inter in the league this year and technically we're still the strongest side in Serie A). He doesn't appear to have much in the way of fresh ideas either, tactically or in his way of managing, as the side isn't responding to him and no longer plays as a unit but as a group of individuals.

Bringing in a new manager will bring some fresh impetus into the squad and new tactical ideas. Some new motivation too as the players will have to re-establish themselves rather than being a favourite of Carlo's.

It would only be a start, but changing Carlo would hopefully be the start to making important changes in the club.

Originally Posted by rt9

Man Utd won the Cl last year, won the World Club Cup this year, just won the Carling Cup last night, and are in contention to win the league. That is what a top football club should aim for and be able to acheive (at least give it a proper shot).

We on the other hand, win the CL in 2007, while being completely out of contention in the league, win the World Club Cup and then crash---finishing 5th in the league, missing out on CL, and be so far away from Inter, with Juve finishing ahead of us. This is a not how a top football club should be managed. So from the almighty Milan, we have become a club that can only challenge for one thing a year?

This Milan has won trophies under Ancelotti, but have we been a consistent FORCE in the league? Have we been competitive over the last few years? It takes a good run in the latter stages to win the UCL, but it takes quality and consistency over a long season to win the league? When was the last time we won the league? This is pathetic.

Look at last 15 years of football history and say milan is not consistent it is just not true. Even Man Utd would gladly exchange what they have done in that period for what we have.

Anyway this was not my topic what I wanted to stress is that merda have been gifted 4 points by refs in last 3 weeks.

3 against us and 1 against Roma and by "the best refs in Serie A" no I am not making an excuse for us but it is just revolting that they beside all the misery of Milan and Juve still bribe for the title.

this FERGUSON hysteria is getting pretty boring, so here is some COPY - PASTA from wikipedia::

Ferguson
Premier League:
2001, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08

CL:
2008

Ancelotti
Serie A:
2003–04

CL:
2002–03; 2006–07

Originally Posted by fLame

this FERGUSON hysteria is getting pretty boring, so here is some COPY - PASTA from wikipedia::

Ferguson
Premier League:
2001, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08

CL:
2008

Ancelotti
Serie A:
2003–04

CL:
2002–03; 2006–07

???? buhahaha... these statictics are not correct... Wenger won like 10 titles and 2 CL's. he has a percentage of winning league almost every 2nd year...

And when you talk about formations and changes bla,bla, that doesnt have anything to do with tactics. Tactics consist of movement on the field. And we lack any sistematic movement.

Originally Posted by mrki

???? buhahaha... these statictics are not correct... Wenger won like 10 titles and 2 CL's. he has a percentage of winning league almost every 2nd year...

Firstly, it's Ferguson ... are you all in love with Wenger to speak about him everythime ??

I think Flame only wanted to compare after the nomination of Ancelotti as our coach, I don't see the point on saying that Ferguson has had 10 titles on 20+ years and Ancelotti 1 in 6 years. It's impossible, you can only compare similar periods (what I think Flame wanted to do, but he seems to have a problem with the copy-paste ), or compare at the end of the career.

What I say there is for the titles ... it's just not fair for example to compare a coach who managed for the first time a team in CL for moment with Ancelotti.

I think this argument is going off track now. This has nothing to do with how much Carlo has won or Ferguson or Wenger. I don't think Carlo is a bad coach, as a matter of fact I think he is a great coach...........but after a while, like someone here said already (sry can't go back to see who did), he can't manage this particular group of players anymore.

I don't know why people are talking about what Carlo has won. The CL, the League, the Club World Cup, the Super Cup, Tim Cup..... GOOD!!! I thank him for all the joy he has helped to give us and for all the titles that he guided this team towards. BUT, it is all over! This is the SECOND YEAR in a row where this team is playing pathetic football and we are out of contention for everything by the time March comes. It is the second year in a row that we see players not playing for Carlo because they don't have to establish themselves to him anymore. It is the second year in a row where opponents simply know how to play against us and we keep dropping points against teams like Lecce and Reggina. (I could even argue that this is the THIRD year that we play bad football, because really apart from 5/6 CL matches in 2007, we were pretty bad that year as well....but I won't argue that simply because we won the CL that year)

We are simply too predictable because Carlo won't even consider changing some players around. He won't stand up to the players and bench them after playing sh!t football for weeks in a row. Why do we see the same line up, the same players, when ALL OF US can see that some of the players are simply not performing??? He should just sit some players on the bench, and that's the way to motivate these players. If that doesn't make them give their all and start performing then obviously they don't have a spot on this team anymore.

I mean it is pointless to have this argument because all the results, and what's even worse...the performances, are pathetic and not worthy of a club like Milan. I think the only argument should be whether to let Carlo go now or in the summer? If he goes now there is a great chance that the team will be destabilized even more and we will sink even further away. OR the players might somehow get off their a$s and start performing!
I am against sacking coaches in the middle of the season........but if we don't win and perform in the next couple of games and fall even further behind the pace......then what else is left to do????

The bottom line is I think,
Carlo is a great coach........but no longer the RIGHT coach for Milan!!!! He needs to go.....whether that'll be in the summer or now remains a big question.

Originally Posted by fLame

this FERGUSON hysteria is getting pretty boring, so here is some COPY - PASTA from wikipedia::

Ferguson
Premier League:
2001, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08

CL:
2008

Ancelotti
Serie A:
2003–04

CL:
2002–03; 2006–07

with the help from GeoTav, I got your point. Looks like this argument can be easily manipulated in anyone's favor though. In all fairness, you probably should consider Ancelotti's two years at Juventus too, after all, Juve was no Reggina, they were a serious contender on all fronts.

Originally Posted by mrki

???? buhahaha... these statictics are not correct... Wenger won like 10 titles and 2 CL's. he has a percentage of winning league almost every 2nd year...

And when you talk about formations and changes bla,bla, that doesnt have anything to do with tactics. Tactics consist of movement on the field. And we lack any sistematic movement.

you must have read the wrong post, cause i don't see anything wrong in the statistics. I compared the period from 2001 - present, when both Ancelotti and Ferguson were managers of their respective teams.

IF you want to compare the ENTIRE career of Ferguson, with Milan's performance during this time, then i beg your pardon, he pales in comparison?
2 CL titles? how many have we had during that time?
are you OK with the coach that win CL twice in 20 years? good luck with taht