Bayman's Analysis

It is blantant obvious as always:
Our midfield is average (on international level)!
I really hope that this game finally opened some eyes (especially Galliani's); this way it still has a positive effect. Better 1-2 now than another laCoruna quarterfinal....

I'd like to start the analysis with a great quote from great Bil Shankly (Liverpool manager 70's) that sums everything up quite nicely:

"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple."

Well I marked two parts that thoroughly lack in our game, for 3 years now.
Some may claim we won many titles, but stop fooling youself, we were carried by great individual performances in our best games (Inzaghi in early CL, Sheva, Kaka Scudetoo season).

Bayern, La Coruna game(s) --> clinical finishing by Pippo, nothing else
Scudetoo --> Lots of games won by Kaka's distance shots or Sheva's finishing....and CAFU. Yes a single player made us a Scudetto winner. He is the only player that runs tirelessy on the wing and makes himself available. No Cafu - no Scudetoo, I'm pretty sure on that.

Our midfield is too static, too slow and only about passing, not pass receiving. The only player who runs is our most defensive midfielder - Gattuso. But one of Seedorf/Pirlo has to be sacrificed.
And I'd go with Pirlo. Aprt from 45min against Depor when did he ever really impress, be honest? Olypic games, NT - always average. And hearing people who want Donati or Barone is driving me mad. Italy has ONE big problem - midfielders and that is where we play most Italians.

And I put in another quote of the great Bill Shankly:
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are. In my time at Liverpool we always said we had the best two teams on Merseyside, Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves."

We have money, we have reputation. No team is perfect, you can always make it better and you have to make it better EVERY SEASON. remember the Milan of Capello. We constantly added new personal, some flopped (Lentini, Papin), some became great but we did it!! We did this last season (Cafu, Pancaro) too but not this year - a fatal mistake.
And seeing our average (on European terms) midfield there is no shortage on positions where to start.

1.PUT IN A CENTRAL DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER
Hasn't Real MAdrid w/o Makelele shown the whole world, how feckin damn important such a player is??
==>Gattuso has to play central.

2.WE NEED MORE RUNNING OFF THE BALL
I'd go for big spending here, there is no point not to invest in the most vital part of the team. My first options would be Snijder or breaking the bank and go with Vicente.
No place for 1B solutions. In midfield only the best is good enough. Simple as.

-Look at Roma, they sold off thir best midfielder and got garbage in - prepare for a 0-3 drubbing against Real Madrid.
-Look at the difference a TOP CLAS defensive midfielder makes to a team.
2002/2003 -->World class defense behind Davids
2003/2004--> Mid table defense w/o davids
2004/2005--> Brillant again thanks to Emerson.

We went through this downfall thing once (1996+) and the problems:
-buying mediocre players or relying on talents (Commandini)
[a note: go check some old threads on players incoming in Milanmania and Xtratime. Most of you guys were mad at buying Inzaghi (a top striker) and giving up Commandini...hilarious stuff; when Farinos and Gerard (now Barca) were linked with us everybody went mad adn wanted these later flops]
-I wanted Stankovic in midfield ,hardly surprising Inter's best midfielder now. he is quality. but missed out, because we actually thought our midfield is world class. Haroons's five stars still make me laugh.

In CL we can grind out 0-0 or boring 1-0 (like against Shaktar) if we play a defensive, but controlled game w/o being desperate to win at any cost. Still all to play for.
But in Serie A you have to win against small teams and attack all cost, but our lack of defensive skills in central midfield and inability to create clear scoring chnaces (because everything is so static: Pirlo with his f*cking long passes and w/o any runing and any playing of flowing combination football), I'd go so far that we are already out of Scudetto race[you can bookmark this thread], unless we find a
Serginho gattuso Seedorf kind of midfield solution
or we go into the market in January and make up big in the second half of the season.


I just hope this game is an eye-opener, so there is something positive to get from.

I think you are totally overreacting. We have lost 1 game! For the last two years we have been playing the most attractive footbal in europe. Even Capello, Lippo and other managers agree with that. We have a splendig midfield, and Pirlo is a key player for us.

You are totally wrong in your analysis and i think that the team will show you that.

About the not strengthening of existing squad by adding players every season.
LaCouna didn't do it either. Same old squad again...slaughtered 5-1 by Valencia at home.

Its a good post i think...I will post something later here, as my gf is here...i will try make her leave and post my thougts later...

Personally, I'm more than satisfied with Crespo, Stam and Coloccini. Dhorasoo is a joker to me but I have full faith in Galliani, although I'm pretty convinced he's here as a back-up and not reinforcement/strengthening which is what you wanted in your post.

Although I must confirm that I was really, really hoping Stankovic (and Adriano) was going to end up here during the summer and not in Inter @ winter and during the summer I was really, really disappointed Davids ended up there too. Imagine him in our midfield!
I rate and appreciate Seedorf alot but I think both Stankovic and especially Davids are a step above him.

However, I did believe that our defence was number one priority- I just can't convince myself to rely that Maldini, Cafu and Costacurta will repeat their grand performances. Stam and Coloccini were the answer and I'm more than glad.

Now to your points- you are speaking for a more EPL philosophy, you want a fluid team a lá Arsenal. Your points, quotes and suggestions are correct when it comes to that kind of football but that isn't the kind of game we play. Our opponents are lethal, last season the smaller teams had lethal players like Chevanton and Roberto Baggio and giving them several chances a half is suicide. This year I believe our opponents are even sharper throughout the table.
Pure possession, patience and playing safe is the way. Take back the loose ball and try again. We don't try to overwhelm our opponents, taking them off guard, because the smaller teams in Serie A are already gathered and organised. That kind of attempting to overwhelm them with Pires and Ljungberg type of players just won't work consistently and safely enough. Serie A football style is just too organised and continental. Consistancy is the key and our midfield has provided that.

I don't want to dismiss and belittle your midfield concerns but truly, I believe that you are, yet again, just being opportunistic against a style you disapprove of as soon as the chance presents itself.

However, I am open to the possibility that we are less competetive. Actually, I am convinced we are less competetive than last season, Stam or not.
I see last season as a gift, something extraordinary and I'm not one that starts to assume, expect and finally demand such standards.
I doubt we'll be close to grinding out consistency like last season and I'm fully convinced that Capello has the capability to do just that (again). This season is going to be tough, real tough.

FORZA MILAN

I'm happy in defense, but our midfield was always our weakest point.

Now to your points- you are speaking for a more EPL philosophy, you want a fluid team a lá Arsenal. Your points, quotes and suggestions are correct when it comes to that kind of football but that isn't the kind of game we play. Our opponents are lethal, last season the smaller teams had lethal players like Chevanton and Roberto Baggio and giving them several chances a half is suicide. This year I believe our opponents are even sharper throughout the table.
Pure possession, patience and playing safe is the way. Take back the loose ball and try again. We don't try to overwhelm our opponents, taking them off guard, because the smaller teams in Serie A are already gathered and organised. That kind of attempting to overwhelm them with Pires and Ljungberg type of players just won't work consistently and safely enough. Serie A football style is just too organised and continental. Consistancy is the key and our midfield has provided that.

I don't want to dismiss and belittle your midfield concerns but truly, I believe that you are, yet again, just being opportunistic against a style you disapprove of as soon as the chance presents itself.

I don't want Arsenal style, I want that Juve style of 2002/2003 season (best played against Real Madrid). Best defence in SerieA, highest scoring in Serie A. Simplay a very dynamic midfield back then (Nedved, Davids, Zambrotta).
And our midfield is highly problematic. in corners and free kicks we are just abysmal - and never is any action taken to repir that. Just carrying the same problem from season to next season

Our midfield:

Kaka
Seedorf - Pirlo - Gattsuo

World class midfields
Kaka
Seedorf - Gattuso - Nedved
Kaka
Vicente - gattuso - Seedorf

With these midfields I'd feel MUCH more comfortable to win every Serie A game, despite only changing ONE player.
Actually Juve's midfield despite the average Camoranesis and tacchinardis has Nedved, Emerson and Zambrotta - 3 players that would walk into our starting XI with ease.

One word: Complacency

Bayman, you are entitled to your opinion, yet I believe you are creating a storm in a glass of water. This is another bad performance by the entire team (not only the midfield) because they are not yet in shape. Their preparation in this pre-season was incomplete, and most players are "out-of-breath". There is no need to blame anyone at this early stage (may be less "money exhibition" games in the USA or against Barcelona and a more of basic athletic conditioning).

Milan's midfield is one of the strongest in the world and the envy of many other teams. When great players such as Rui Costa, Ambrosini, Dhorasso, Brocchi and others are kept on the bench, you know we have super first team players. The combination Gattuso/Pirlo/Seedorf is going to win us plenty of games and your criticism misses the mark entirely.

I also fail to see the reason for your using bold characters. If what you are saying makes good sense, it will stand out by itself without the extra emphasis.

Milan can and will win. The midfield is super. They are all out of condition at this time, but things are going to get better soon.

In defense we went for Stam (best non Milan defender with Samuel in Serie A last season).
We brought back Colocchini who is still regarded as a big defensive talent and actually better than Mexes, ferrari and Bonera.

==> Only the best

Strikers
Galliani dreaminof goal machine Adriano (though will never happen), rumours that Torres will arrrive next year (one of the greatest talents in the world).

Goalkeeper, defense and attack we are only aiming at the best, even only dreaming 8Adriano) of the best. World class player, top talents only.



And in midfield??
How can you give the preference over Ambrosini (Italian reserve) over one of the best wingers in the world and last seasons Primera Divisions (best league i the world) best player?? [as mentioned by some posters in xtratime.com]
Why do we never go for best players in midfield??
Because we simply accept the status quo, never questioning the existing and looking for problems at other points.

To make it more easy to understand.
This is Inter's team that lost Milan 0-6

Frey

Ferarri__Simic__Blanc__Gresko

Zanetti__DiBiagio__Dalmat__Farinos

Vieri__Recoba

If you look at where the players are today it sounds laughable that they even wanted to compete for a CL spot with this. But at that time those players were thought to be good enough to do so and never QUESTIONED.
Our GK/defense/attack appraoch should also be taken for midfield!

Ok finally she left..

I have to admit, that Bayman post a good thread here, as i think that these thoughts are in our mind, in many of us here...(at least, in the ppl that are here some time).

Originally Posted by Josh

Milan's midfield is one of the strongest in the world and the envy of many other teams. When great players such as Rui Costa, Ambrosini, Dhorasso, Brocchi and others are kept on the bench, you know we have super first team players. The combination Gattuso/Pirlo/Seedorf is going to win us plenty of games and your criticism misses the mark entirely.

Milan can and will win. The midfield is super. They are all out of condition at this time, but things are going to get better soon.

I fully disagree here...Rui is too old right now and in my view, cant compete for more than one half. Speed in one of his problems...

Dhorasso and Brocchi are joke players for me...Ok maybe the second is hard working mate, but he is not Milan Quality..Not by any chance!
Dhorasso is another player we buy because we can take it..for free!

See our last years...We take a lot of players for free(which was our last big spending? Nesta?) and we rely on them...

Ambrosini...Ok i like him, but he is not equal to Gatusso...Gatusso is a player that although doesnt have too much quality, has unlimited pace and can do many things...

Sherginio - Cant understand why we rely on him again this year..he is 31 or something, why we cant change him with someone more younger?

I read earlier this year, that we didnt take Davids, because we wanted to invest to Ambrosini...That was a mistake i think

I come to agree with Bayman for the midfield player, although i dont believe that Vicente is the solution(doesnt think that Spaniards can do much good here).
Someone like Guily maybe or either Ronaldinio(if he can play behind) although, neither of them will ever leave Barca.

I dont want to make this thread, a thread with title: "State the ppl u want in Milan" but i think that if we spend wisely we can find a solution there...

So my 1st comment is that the recent tranfer policies that Milan had, i didnt agree with them.

I think we need more Star players..No i dont like to be the new Real(i never liked that) but we must have more star players...as in Midfield i can find only Kaka(Sheedorf and Gatuso, for me are very good..but not star players)


As for the team as it is now, i think that ppl saying that its too early..are not too mistaken...it is early yes. But do u think that Juve will not last? That they will fail later? I will be happy to see that, but i think that they will not do many mistakes this year...Lets face it, the builded a good team this year..clever moves

My 2nd comment is that after a lose, we dont react right after bad games...

See what Carlo said after the match:

"'We certainly didn't play as at Bologna, it was a really negative game. There wasn't much space, we played slowly and in a predictable way, too many things did not work. We knew Messina could make things difficult for us with their enthusiasm, their lift and their desire to do well. We needed more attention. Especially after we took the lead. Their immediate goal stunned us, increasing our difficulties, from a mental point of view as well. However, we must not make a drama out of this, it was a bad defeat. Let's try to learn from it, we must recover the right attitude and motivation to do better."

So what he is saying? That the have enthusiasm and we dont? Be real ppl, the have almost 1/10 our badget and 1/10000 our players value...So why we cant win them in our home?


Final Comment: I believe yes that its only a start, but i think that if we dont wake up soon...we will have problems...big problems...

We cant rely always in performances like we did in 99s. There is a saying here in Greece, that there is no everyday like Sunday..Meaning that ok we had a lot of luck that year...we cant rely on luck!

We must find our movements soon, and why not make some changes on January...I dont want to only say that we are the best...i want to feel that we are the best...do u?

i have to say I would have liked to see a new midfielder come in to add some real competition like we have in defense and attack. Ambrosini and Rui Costa are just not playing at a level where other teams would be worried about them. I was really excited at the prospect of Emre over the summer but it did not come to be. Secondly I do think Milan should have spent some of that money they've been saving on a big name player, did we absolutely require a big name player? no. but the confidence such signings spread through the team and the fear it strikes into oppositions hearts is a mental boost that is worth something.

HOWEVER. its a little early to panic, we have a complete squad at our disposal and one loss is no big deal just yet we do need to get our act together though.

Bayman I totally agree with you, I mentioned b4 the season that our achilles heel was Pirlo, and people disagreed with me, calling me all kinds of names e.t.c. This "deep playmaker" role or whatever role Pirlo has on the team will consistently cause us problems. Gattuso cannot do all the defensive midfield work by himself. In addititon,after playing all those games in the summer, Carlo should be wise enuff to rest pirlo I hope they learn now than later.

The solution is to provide what we have right now. We don't have Baraja, Vicente or whoever. The season is underway and these guys are cup tied anyway.

Like it or not ... this is the squad we have and we have to look at what we have not what we should have or could have had.

Let's see what happens at Lazio and then Celtic which for me is a must win game.

The part that I agree with is about having a central consistent ball winner, this is almost a must in my opinion.
I have posted here before about a younger defense but like Quivering mentioned I think Stam and Colo were the best we could do for this summer.
I sure hope its not complacency like Laudrup says, coz surely a veteran team should know better.
Its very early but getting 1 point from 2 home games (vs serie A newcomers) is a very poor start

Well I liked Haroon's lineup in xtratime and I'd change it a bit

Dida
Stam - Nesta - Maldini - Pancaro/Kaladze
Cafu - Gattuso - Seedorf
Rui Costa
Kaka - Shevchenko

Why not play Cafu further upfront when he is clearly our best offensive player?
And if we really need, we should go for Udineses Pizarro in mid season as he isn't cup ties. Not a perfect solution but might be enough to give the midfield something extra.