A hypothetical question: Juve in A, where would they be now?

It just occurred to me that Juventus, after losing Cannavaro (the one that pledged to stay ), Emerson (don't care, ), Ibrahimovich (why didn't that surprise me? ), Thuram, Vieira, and Zambrotta , are still pretty competitive. At least they look pretty in shape.

Had Juventus been announced to stay in A after selling all those players, where do you guess that they might be? How many points would they have got by now (before any possible point deduction)?

I have a feeling that they could get more points than we currently have had, and had they stayed in A, we probably would have more points than we currently have now, too.

What do you think?

First place, or neck-and-neck with Inter (blech). Thankfully it's something we won't have to deal with just for this season.

Originally Posted by BMWTaylor

First place, or neck-and-neck with Inter (blech). Thankfully it's something we won't have to deal with just for this season.

But they have some one at their goal unlike us

Originally Posted by mzk57

But they have some one at their goal unlike us

mzk, I have to ask you to stop inciting further controversy on the issue with your cheeky comments.
Also, you may feel anyway you want about Milan players but this is a public forum and what you post is seen by others too and they do not have to read and/or tolerate your disrespectful comments about any Milan player, whoever he is.
So, I strongly advise you to keep that in mind.

Juventus won again today. Interesting. Tony29 must be pretty happy. I will say that they are already back in A now.

They're pretty much on cruise control right now, with the Napoli draw merely a bump in the road.

i think, they would be exactly under our current position..

Anyone has any idea how many points Juve have got now, how far to the promoted zone and what is their ranking ?

If Juve had this team and they were in serie A, even if they started with 0 points like most of the teams in serie A did....... Juve would have been in top 10 imo, but with only 50% chance to get a CL place. The defence (besides recieving only 5 goals so far) is awful, the worst in last 20 years, midfield sucks if one of Nedved-Camoranesi is out, and only the attackers and Buffon are as great as they were in the past.

For one thing, Juve has 10 players injured atm (Del Piero, Trezeguet, Tudor, C.Zanetti, Giannichedda,Zalayeta,Marchionni, Legrotaglie, Guzman,Zebina) , and in last match against Lecce (Juve won 4:1) , Buffon was suspended and Juve had 11 missing players on that match !!

Atm, with Buffon back, the team looks like this : Buffon - Chiellini,Kovac,Boumsong,Balzaretti - Camoranesi,Paro,Marchisio,Nedved - Palladino, Bojinov. (and only 4 players at the bench - Mirante, Birindelli, De Ceglie, Urbano)

This 11 are still too good for serie B, but in serie A they would have formed nothing more than a mid-table team.

But ok, all these players wouldn't have been injured if Juve was in A, where defenders aren't such butchers as the ones in serie B, but still, Juve wouldn't have been as good as Inter, Roma and Palermo were at the start of the season, and if everything was OK, i believe Inter, Roma and Milan would have been in top 3 , while Juve would have fought with Palermo for the 4th place !

Paro,Marchisio

?? who are they

I don't know, given Milan's bad start to the season, I don't believe this Juve team would be worse. But I think it'd be a fight between Milan and Juve for the fourth place (given our bad start) and needless to say, Milan has the better team. I am not even sure if Juve would make it that far up the table. But a top ten finish for sure, and contenders for the UEFA Cup. Intertoto?

Originally Posted by Tas

?? who are they

I don't know, given Milan's bad start to the season, I don't believe this Juve team would be worse. But I think it'd be a fight between Milan and Juve for the fourth place (given our bad start) and needless to say, Milan has the better team. I am not even sure if Juve would make it that far up the table. But a top ten finish for sure, and contenders for the UEFA Cup. Intertoto?

Yes, if those 10 players remained injured , Juve would have had no chance for top 4, but with Del Piero, Trezeguet, Marchionni, Zebina, Tudor etc back, i think only Roma, Milan and Inter would have been better than Juve, and chances for the 4th place would have been realistic ...50-50 imo.

Without the injuries, Juve has these starting 11 :
Buffon- Zebina(Balzaretti), Kovac, Boumsong (Tudor) , Chiellini - Camoranesi, C.Zanetti, Paro (Giannichedda,Marchionni), Nedved- Trezeguet, Del Piero
Imo, this ain't worse than what Palermo has

As for Paro and Marchisio .....
Paro is great talent. He even got himself on that list of players Donadoni had in mind for Italy-Turkey match few weeks ago, but he didn't make it. He's very young, but plays like a 30 years old and experienced player.

Marchisio is from primavera team. Deschamps loves the way Marchisio plays, but he's playing mostly because Zanetti, Giannichedda and Marchionni are all injured.

The youngster who impressed the most so far are the attackers Palladino and Bojinov.
Bojinov, only 20 years old, is a real leader now when Del Piero got injured, and Palladino, who's well known in Italy, standard in Italy u-21 team, scores twice in a row in last 2 matches.

This is a very young team, with Chiellini, Paro,Marchisio, Palladino and Bojinov all under 22 years.

So, if there weren't 10 players injured and Juve was in A, i think they would have had chances for 4th place, and with the injuries Juve has, i wouldn't have given them any chance for making it to top 5 !

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Yes, if those 10 players remained injured , Juve would have had no chance for top 4, but with Del Piero, Trezeguet, Marchionni, Zebina, Tudor etc back, i think only Roma, Milan and Inter would have been better than Juve, and chances for the 4th place would have been realistic ...50-50 imo.

Well, I put Roma, Inter and Palermo as the top three because Milan has had a terrible start of the season. Given the bad start Milan's had (bad run and starting with -8 and taken that Juve'd be starting from 0 ) I believe Milan would be, and will be, fighting for 4th place (maybe even 3rd, depending on how much Palermo and Roma suck). Now, Juve comes in behind Milan for sure, because Miland does have a better team. I donno, my money would be that Juve wouldn't have had much better of a start than Milan has had (again pointing out, I'm starting Juve at 0) because the refs would've been a bit bias against Juve, and because its a new team so they cant be expected to 'explode' straight away (much like Milan).

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Without the injuries, Juve has these starting 11 :
Buffon- Zebina(Balzaretti), Kovac, Boumsong (Tudor) , Chiellini - Camoranesi, C.Zanetti, Paro (Giannichedda,Marchionni), Nedved- Trezeguet, Del Piero
Imo, this ain't worse than what Palermo has

As for Paro and Marchisio .....
Paro is great talent. He even got himself on that list of players Donadoni had in mind for Italy-Turkey match few weeks ago, but he didn't make it. He's very young, but plays like a 30 years old and experienced player.

Marchisio is from primavera team. Deschamps loves the way Marchisio plays, but he's playing mostly because Zanetti, Giannichedda and Marchionni are all injured.

The youngster who impressed the most so far are the attackers Palladino and Bojinov.
Bojinov, only 20 years old, is a real leader now when Del Piero got injured, and Palladino, who's well known in Italy, standard in Italy u-21 team, scores twice in a row in last 2 matches.

This is a very young team, with Chiellini, Paro,Marchisio, Palladino and Bojinov all under 22 years.

So, if there weren't 10 players injured and Juve was in A, i think they would have had chances for 4th place, and with the injuries Juve has, i wouldn't have given them any chance for making it to top 5 !

I know that Bojinov and Palladino are great, Bojinov possibly the next del Piero? And Palladino, ehm...the next....Gilardino? The problem is the LB, as the defence looks otherwise solid, i think Guzman is a good player. He, Bojinov and Palladino give the team an exciting look. I don't think the youngsters(*) (are the experienced CM's better att all?) could cut it this season in A. Like you've said, the mF sucks

So i think Juve would most definitely be in the top ten, maybe figthing for CL, maybe for UEFA Cup, would share the fate of Fiorentina.

Edit:
(*) - in midfield

Originally Posted by Tas

Well, I put Roma, Inter and Palermo as the top three because Milan has had a terrible start of the season. Given the bad start Milan's had (bad run and starting with -8 and taken that Juve'd be starting from 0 ) I believe Milan would be, and will be, fighting for 4th place (maybe even 3rd, depending on how much Palermo and Roma suck). Now, Juve comes in behind Milan for sure, because Miland does have a better team. I donno, my money would be that Juve wouldn't have had much better of a start than Milan has had (again pointing out, I'm starting Juve at 0) because the refs would've been a bit bias against Juve, and because its a new team so they cant be expected to 'explode' straight away (much like Milan).

Aha, i now understand what you mean. We didn't understand eachother
Actually,i said all that ( since everything in this topic is hypothetical and with lots of "If" ) thinking what would have Juve done if there wasn't calciopoli, but Juve still had the stars + Moggi out of the team.
Meaning, everybody would have started at 0 pts.
In this case Inter, Roma and Milan ( have in mind, Milan would have been much stronger and in much better form if Calciopoli never happened ) would have been light years ahead of the others, because Palermo will fall sooner or later...and that way, chances for this Juve to grab 4th place would have been 50-50 !

If there werent a Calciopoli, I would like to think that, and with no cheating, the Juve team as it is now and everybody healthy would be as strong as Fiorentina is now. Viola is on fire now, but will probably run out of juice come season's end, so on average.....

Anyhow, if there werent a Calciopoli, Juve team would've most probably have bought one more CM and an extra LB and there would've made it to the CL. Inter has a strong team, a lot of bench-width, so even w/o the Calciopoli, given the form they're in now I'd have to say they are the favourites to win the title. If everybody had started from 0 Roma, Milan, Fiorentina and Palermo and Juve would be fighting to make it to the CL. So I see why one could rate Juve's chances in that case at 50% (2 out of four - Juve, Roma, Fio and Palermo). Nontheless, I would rate this Juve team not just as strong as, as the best of the four, Fiorentina. However, if it weren't for the Calciopoli, Juve would've covered the forementioned positions and would've left the CL battle to Roma, Fio and Palermo. And Milan I say "and Milan", because we already know Milan already lost a lot of games.

So one could deduce that the Calciopoli was a scam, right ?