Flashbacks to February 2001?

A coach who has been successful in the past, but whose current XI looks exceptionally mediocre?

A squad overburdened with ageing players whose best days are long in the past?

A dependency on one superstar to bail the team out of trouble?

Miles off the pace in Serie A?

Eliminated from European competition by mediocre opposition?

Is anyone else experiencing thought pretty similar to the tail end of the Zaccheroni regime eight years ago? Then, we axed a previously successful coach mid season and spent heavily in the summer. It didn't work immediately, but the eventual result was the European Cup in 2003.

Any thoughts?

The will to spend as much is not there, as evidenced by last summer. Now that may 'have' to change because Berlusconi may have had with losing chance at another trophy but as of right now the parallels to that year are just wishful.

Originally Posted by Reza

The will to spend as much is not there, as evidenced by last summer. Now that may 'have' to change because Berlusconi may have had with losing chance at another trophy but as of right now the parallels to that year are just wishful.

Would you agree though that we're in a similar position to eight years ago?

I looked at our squad again and among outfield players Billy was the oldest at 34 I believe, we had Boban, Leo and Bierhoff in early 30s, key players getting older...let's see if management recognize that and can act more decisively than they did in summer 2008

I see more similarities in the time we were knocked out of the Uefa Cup by a German side Borussia Dortmund.

The next year we won the champions league. That can happen again IF galliani the b4stard buys some defenders and a striker/Gourcuff!!

Yup, I definitely see the similarities to 2001 and 2002. It was the end of an era for Milan. After being dominant in Europe for the most part of the 90s, the management decided to stick with a group of players that were past their prime. We had won the scudetto in 98/99, but the team was just not performing anymore, and we were being made fools of in Europe and Italy. Zaccheroni was running out of ideas, and Milan appeared to be falling apart.

It is very similar to what is going on right now. We have a group of players who are aging and have won every major trophy there is, a coach who is running out of ideas, and the team is being made fools of in Europe and Italy. The situation was eventually solved as Ancelotti came in and the squad was renewed.

Between 2000 and 2002, we made some very important signings in Nesta, Pippo and Seedorf, but with the exception of Nesta, none of these players were considered world class at the time of their arrival. Pippo had hardly been playing for Juventus, and Seedorf had wasted two years at Inter. We did sign Rui Costa and Rivaldo too, but Rivaldo was no longer the player he used to be, and Rui Costa (although I loved him), did not enjoy the same kind of success at Milan that he had at Fiorentina.

The player that really made the difference was Andrea Pirlo, who joined us for close to nothing from Inter in 2001. It wasn't until Ancelotti came in and started using him as a defensive playmaker that things really clicked for Milan though. Another player that Ancelotti got the best out of was Gattuso, who had already spent two years at Milan without performing at the level we've come to expect of him today. Dida was another player nobody believed in, but when Ancelott came in, he suddenly became a world class goalkeeper, and stayed at that level for many years.

If you look at our line-up for the CL final in 2003, I think it is fair to say that we succeeded with a team that had been built over some time, from 1999/2000 to 2002/2003. We had a few players from the "old guard" remaining with us in Billy and Maldini, and a few undoubtedly world class players in Nesta, Shevchenko and Inzaghi, but by and large, the board had been making the right moves on the transfer market for several seasons, and what had lacked was a coach that got the best out of the new players.

The situation today is pretty similar. If you imagine that everyone is injury free and playing to the best of their current capabilities (considering age and all), our strongest starting XI today would be:

Abbiati - Zambrotta, Nesta, Kaladze, Jankulovski, Pirlo, Gattuso, Flamini, Kaka, Borriello and Pato.

In that group of players, we have some who should probably be replaced, like Abbiati, Kaladze and Jankulovski. We have some players who consistently perform at a high level when they are fit, such as as Kaka, Gattuso and Nesta. We have a few players who are just waiting to really leave their mark on Europe and Italy in a way that will make everyone take notice, such as Flamini, Borriello and Pato (the Duck has succeeded in Italy, to a certain extent, but is still young, and has yet to prove himself in the CL).

All in all, the situation is very similar to 2001-02. The year after, we still had a bunch of average players in the squad, such as Roque Junior, Martin Laursen, Brocchi, Rivaldo (who, in all fairness, had been world class before), Simic and so on, but we had a new coach who got the best out of the young and/or unproven players, and made those who had been with the club for some time start performing again.

All in all, I have some hopes for next season. Thiago Silva is coming in, and he is as good a central defender as any. We will probably need another central defender of some class, as things are not looking good for Nesta, and that is something the board will be forced to address. I can imagine that Sheva will leave, or that Pippo retires, so we will need another striker as well. Our midfield is generally alright, and we'll probably bring back Gourcuff, who is setting France on fire these days.

What remains then is for us to sign a new coach with new ideas. Replacing your coach is always risky business, but I imagine that if Ancelotti is sacked, we will bring in Frank Rijkaard, who has proven himself at the highest level with Barcelona, and is a former player who belongs to the Milan family. If not him, then we have other options in Donadoni and Leonardo. Maybe Scolari should be considered too, since he is also available at the moment, and could probably do wonders for Milan, considering the large number of Brazilian players we have. I do think that it is definitely time for Ancelotti to go.

So to summarize: Yes, the situation is very similar to 2001-2002, and like then, we need one or two world class signings, while some fairly unproven players should be given more faith and responsibility. And we need a new, quality coach who brings new and fresh ideas to a Milan that has become fairly stale. If that happens, and I think we have reached the point where everyone can see that it -must- happen (including the board), then we are on route for more success in the coming years.

Berlusconi said something about Milan earlier this season: "A great man can allow himself to rest for some time, but never for too long." Milan have rested for two seasons, but I foresee changes to the squad and management that will bring more success to the club fairly soon.

What we need to focus on now is qualifying for the Champions League next season. I don't care if we finish 2nd or 4th, as long as we get one of those CL spots. It is absolutely vital.

Originally Posted by devoted_dm

Yup, I definitely see the similarities to 2001 and 2002. It was the end of an era for Milan. After being dominant in Europe for the most part of the 90s, the management decided to stick with a group of players that were past their prime. We had won the scudetto in 98/99, but the team was just not performing anymore, and we were being made fools of in Europe and Italy. Zaccheroni was running out of ideas, and Milan appeared to be falling apart.

It is very similar to what is going on right now. We have a group of players who are aging and have won every major trophy there is, a coach who is running out of ideas, and the team is being made fools of in Europe and Italy. The situation was eventually solved as Ancelotti came in and the squad was renewed.

Between 2000 and 2002, we made some very important signings in Nesta, Pippo and Seedorf, but with the exception of Nesta, none of these players were considered world class at the time of their arrival. Pippo had hardly been playing for Juventus, and Seedorf had wasted two years at Inter. We did sign Rui Costa and Rivaldo too, but Rivaldo was no longer the player he used to be, and Rui Costa (although I loved him), did not enjoy the same kind of success at Milan that he had at Fiorentina.

The player that really made the difference was Andrea Pirlo, who joined us for close to nothing from Inter in 2001. It wasn't until Ancelotti came in and started using him as a defensive playmaker that things really clicked for Milan though. Another player that Ancelotti got the best out of was Gattuso, who had already spent two years at Milan without performing at the level we've come to expect of him today. Dida was another player nobody believed in, but when Ancelott came in, he suddenly became a world class goalkeeper, and stayed at that level for many years.

If you look at our line-up for the CL final in 2003, I think it is fair to say that we succeeded with a team that had been built over some time, from 1999/2000 to 2002/2003. We had a few players from the "old guard" remaining with us in Billy and Maldini, and a few undoubtedly world class players in Nesta, Shevchenko and Inzaghi, but by and large, the board had been making the right moves on the transfer market for several seasons, and what had lacked was a coach that got the best out of the new players.

The situation today is pretty similar. If you imagine that everyone is injury free and playing to the best of their current capabilities (considering age and all), our strongest starting XI today would be:

Abbiati - Zambrotta, Nesta, Kaladze, Jankulovski, Pirlo, Gattuso, Flamini, Kaka, Borriello and Pato.

In that group of players, we have some who should probably be replaced, like Abbiati, Kaladze and Jankulovski. We have some players who consistently perform at a high level when they are fit, such as as Kaka, Gattuso and Nesta. We have a few players who are just waiting to really leave their mark on Europe and Italy in a way that will make everyone take notice, such as Flamini, Borriello and Pato (the Duck has succeeded in Italy, to a certain extent, but is still young, and has yet to prove himself in the CL).

All in all, the situation is very similar to 2001-02. The year after, we still had a bunch of average players in the squad, such as Roque Junior, Martin Laursen, Brocchi, Rivaldo (who, in all fairness, had been world class before), Simic and so on, but we had a new coach who got the best out of the young and/or unproven players, and made those who had been with the club for some time start performing again.

All in all, I have some hopes for next season. Thiago Silva is coming in, and he is as good a central defender as any. We will probably need another central defender of some class, as things are not looking good for Nesta, and that is something the board will be forced to address. I can imagine that Sheva will leave, or that Pippo retires, so we will need another striker as well. Our midfield is generally alright, and we'll probably bring back Gourcuff, who is setting France on fire these days.

What remains then is for us to sign a new coach with new ideas. Replacing your coach is always risky business, but I imagine that if Ancelotti is sacked, we will bring in Frank Rijkaard, who has proven himself at the highest level with Barcelona, and is a former player who belongs to the Milan family. If not him, then we have other options in Donadoni and Leonardo. Maybe Scolari should be considered too, since he is also available at the moment, and could probably do wonders for Milan, considering the large number of Brazilian players we have. I do think that it is definitely time for Ancelotti to go.

So to summarize: Yes, the situation is very similar to 2001-2002, and like then, we need one or two world class signings, while some fairly unproven players should be given more faith and responsibility. And we need a new, quality coach who brings new and fresh ideas to a Milan that has become fairly stale. If that happens, and I think we have reached the point where everyone can see that it -must- happen (including the board), then we are on route for more success in the coming years.

Berlusconi said something about Milan earlier this season: "A great man can allow himself to rest for some time, but never for too long." Milan have rested for two seasons, but I foresee changes to the squad and management that will bring more success to the club fairly soon.

What we need to focus on now is qualifying for the Champions League next season. I don't care if we finish 2nd or 4th, as long as we get one of those CL spots. It is absolutely vital.

Can't really argue with that, it's pretty spot on.

Personally I'd give Ancelotti till the end of the season, and then allow him to move on. Rijkaard (as a coach with a Champions League winning background more than his Milan history) would be my preference as replacement. As for the squad, it requires an almost complete overhaul.

Devoted DM is pretty much spot on imo. Comparisons are inevitable (since the end of last season), but we can and should take heart that this squad of players doesn't need a revolution to be great, just some intelligent additions and in all honesty a new coach with a fresh approach.

Our midfield is generally alright, and we'll probably bring back Gourcuff, who is setting France on fire these days.

I would be surprised if he comes back.

Bordeaux have the option to buy him for 15 million euros, and they'd be mad to turn that down. And I wouldn't think he'd be too keen to come back to Milan given the way he was used previously.

Originally Posted by Rab

I would be surprised if he comes back.

Bordeaux have the option to buy him for 15 million euros, and they'd be mad to turn that down. And I wouldn't think he'd be too keen to come back to Milan given the way he was used previously.

He said this past week he'd like to return to Italy whether it be at Milan or another club. Plus Bordeaux are really struggling to raise the finances to get him so chances aren't so bad he'll return, especially if Carlo is out which looks very likely right now.

My thoughts on the "crisis-talks" held by Galliani in the aftermath of our exit from the uefa cup, and the similarities with 2001:

It is slightly ridiculous that our management (if the rumors of the coach out at season's end, mass player exodus and wage slashing are to be believed) would take this approach.

After failing to properly invest, and failing to acknowledge said failure, its now the "fault" of the coach and players?

Are they really serious?

I won't go into the individuals who I feel are certainly not good enuf to play for Milan, instead, I will certainly ask what are these purported statements going to do for team morale?

If I were a Milan player, especially one with "star" status, I would certainly go ahead and put in a transfer request right away.

I don't think any of our players are underperforming on purpose...I think that there are too many of them that just aren't good enuf @ the highest level.

We have aging/decrepit superstars that have outlived their usefullness, yet seem to be a fixture in the starting 11...and if there is one thing that we do know about our team selection policy, its that the coach doesn't always decide who plays.

Ancelotti for me, is a gentleman, and maybe, just maybe, is too much of a gentleman for this club.

I recall my dismay at his arrival, my constant put-downs of his selections and tactics, yet in my time as a Milan fan, only Capello has been more successfull...and we saw how our owner treated one of the best coaches on the planet...

To change coach now for me would be a mistake. Many will disagree with this, and say its time for a change...but if we look @ the club (Man U) that has been a consistent protagonist domestically and in europe, then surely he should be given more time, especially if he gets this lumbering, creaky old squad to 3rd place or better in the Serie A.

The opposing model of club management: Real Madrid, has achieved arguably an equal measure of success, yet has only really done so with ridiculously huge amounts of money (which Berlu is no longer willing/able to do) being thrown at problems as they arise.

Wage slashing? Mass sell outs? Is management really for real? How motivating is that? Much can be said for the "carrot and stick" model of management, and indeed, "failure" cannot be rewarded...but this threat must be taken seriously...as from a business point of view, it makes sense.

We cannot continue to pay stars UCL wages if they are only capable of getting to the uefa cup.

My way forward:

a) I suggest that management reverse their "experience first" recruitment policy in the first instance, then
b) clinically assess the under/inconsistent performers, and rid ourselves of them ASAP. c) Keep Ancelotti (though I agree his tenure must be contingent on getting into the UCL next term...and I am quite sure he is capable of this)
d) Continue to invest in young, proven talent, in the following positions:
i) Centre forward / Striker: eg Benzema
ii) Attacking/Central midfield : eg Gourcuff
iii) Goalkeeper (Abbiati and Dida are both long in the tooth)
iv) Defensive back: Zambrotta needs an understudy, as does Marek.
v) CD: (eg Santacroce, Mexes)

With this, Milan can renew, and challenge on all fronts.

We have a good core of young players, and players still @ the top, or close to the top of their game...so we don't need the threatened wholesale changes...

I jus hope Carlo remains at the helm next term...we need the continuity, and hopefully the players will respond to this "challenge/threat" in a positive way.

In the end, a very similar situation to the 2001-2002 season, hopefully with some key changes to the modus operendi.

I said sometimes this last summer that we were doing like in this period, investing in some areas to renew the team, and that we would do it, like between 2001 and 2003, on 2 or 3 years.

Anyway, even if I thought about this comparison for the transfers, I never thought about this comparison on the results ... you have quite a good memory devoted !!

Each post has something true, but I think I can say I agree with the solutions of ... Warro (keeping Ancelotti one more year, and probably one last year, is something that is probably smart at this moment as anyway, no better coach is available, and if we come back to CL, who is better than him to allow us to go far in the competition ? The only thing to do for the management is to put big pressure on him: telling him that if he doesn't go to semi-finals of CL and wins the championship, he will be replaced at the end, and that these two objectives are a must-do, no other goal, no other way, no better competition than the other, both goals have to be managed).

Warro, just a couple of points about your post. You've argued about Man U and Real's success over the years, and argued how Real spent a ton of money to get success. Can the same not be argued about Man U who spent fortunes to build their current side? Nor do I agree Man U have been a strong protagonist in Europe in Ferguson's time, as they've only won CL twice in 20 odd years and only now look like a really dominant force in Europe.

Secondly about getting an understudy for Marek? Does that mean you still have faith in him at LB? The number of mistakes he makes in defence is shocking, so I'm surprised if this is what you meant.

About Carlo, he's looks like a man who's struggling to control his side. Rather, he's not fixed any of the faults we've had since Calciopoli, he's the one choosing to play our "decrepit" superstars in the lineup even when they don't deserve a place in the side and he's the one that's failing to introduce new players to the side. Flamini was well on his way to failing at Milan until recent weeks (and even now I fear when Ambro returns Flamini is back out), Gourcuff was terribly managed during his time at Milan (whilst i don't think he deserved the bench towards the latter part of last year, he really deserved more chances early on in his time at Milan where he showed promise), then let's not forget Oddo or Gila, both of whom failed miserably at Milan but were great successes before and after being at Milan. Doesn't it seem odd that so many ex or loaned players are doing superbly away from Milan, yet under Carlo they seemed absolutely pathetic?

Yes, the management hasn't been amazing in transfers over the past few summers and deserve a lot of blame for our current state, but Carlo should be doing a lot better with what he has than he has done. Let's just look at some of the names we've had in over the past summers...

Gila, Oddo, Dinho, Flamini, Pato, Gourcuff, Bonera, Zambrotta, Abbiati (who no one can deny has been great on his return) and Borriello. To me that's not a bad list of players to get even if they aren't all world class names.

The same could be argued for Man U...but how different is their spending vs ours? Certainly their transfer window spending is about the same as ours? What they have done IMO is to buy one or two star players, while unearthing "diamonds in the rough" like the Brazilian twins, without breaking the bank.

I know Berbatov was a "huge" investment in the summer....whom else did they aquire for that amont? Their total spend isn't the £70M or so that Madrid splash out almost every window or 2.

I will also argue that Carlo hasn't been given the same level of talent, or the type of player that can be molded into the tactical system that Carlo wants/needs...though I will agree that he didn't make the best use of Gorky...who is certainly the calibre player we would like to b able to field at present.

Will also concede that Marek is is not the best option @ LB, maybe as a midfielder...? So perhaps we do need a solid LB, as opposed to an "understudy"

I don't agree with Oddo being labelled as a player that underperformed "because" of Carlo...he jus underperformed. Plain and simple. He was brought in as part of the supply chain for Gila...who rarely, if ever got the service from Oddo's "Satellite killing" crosses.

Gila underperformed because his style of play didn't suit the system of ground balls through the centre that is the mainstay of our attack, and only Marek was a source of any good service from the flank...in addition to just not being good enough at the highest level.

Too upset to finish this...jus saw our loss @ Samp...need a couple hours to recover.

Of course there are similarities between now and 2001, only problem is like in 2001, I think we might be waiting too long to change our approach. If you recall, the Milan under Zaccheroni was not a star studded side. The approach then was to buy Italian and play the ridiculous long-ball 3-4-3 formation where everyone was played out of position. We had players like Giunti, Luigi Sala, Max Tonetto, Commandini, Guly, etc.. These were not top class players. Then we started to embarrass ourselves in the league and worse in Europe---Galatassaray knocked us out of CL twice, remember our centenary year? Got outclassed by Real Madrid at the San Siro.

Then finally after another CL elimination, Berlusconi decides to axe Zac, bring in Cesare Maldini, and things began to improve. That summer, the Italian-only philosphy changed, and we spent heavily in the market---buying Nesta, Seedorf, Pippo, Pirlo, Laurson, Rui Costa, etc..Then came Terim and Ancelotti and the rest is history.

I think it's time for another change of approach. No more of this buying 35 year old ex-stars on big contracts. It's time to start buying quality, to get players approaching the prime of their career, start taking some risks and making some investments in the transfer market and rebuild this squad.