Messi Vs. 'Dinho

An article on goal.com proclaims messi as the greatest of all time. Personally, i feel that its an insult, but that's just my opinion. Hence this thread. Not all of us are priviledged to have seen Pele, Cryuff, Garrincha,Maradona etc etc play. So a fair comparison can't be made. But i'm pretty sure everybody has watched dinho play at some point in thier lives. Obviously our assessment would be made not just on current form, as we all know its a no brainer, but dinho from 04 till now and messias from 05 till now. Who has been the most EFFECTIVE? Who has inspired more fear in opponents and opposing fans, and awe in his own fans? Who has made veteran defenders look like greenhorns? You be the judge.

not doubting Messi's talents but he just seems to me to be a very good a quick dribbler, but Kaka was that at his peak, Dinho did truely amazing things with the ball and twiseted players left right and centre he caused panic and chaos in Defences. i have never ever seen Messi do something like this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijR1WX2bLIo where you saw it and thought how has he done that!?

^^ If someone can say that they have never seen Messi do something where you wonder "how has he done that??" , I'm sorry but you just have not watched Messi enough. (Unless of course you're one of those that believes that the defenses he plays against are bad and that it's nothing to do with him being too good).

Originally Posted by Mystik

^^ If someone can say that they have never seen Messi do something where you wonder "how has he done that??" , I'm sorry but you just have not watched Messi enough. (Unless of course you're one of those that believes that the defenses he plays against are bad and that it's nothing to do with him being too good).

No one's trying to downplay messi's talent, as if wasn't special this thread wouldn't exist. But i feel the only aspects he excels over dinho are scoring and speed. You can't possibly believe he is a better passer or - horror of horrors! - dribbler than dinho was in his prime, now can you?

Originally Posted by Mystik

^^ If someone can say that they have never seen Messi do something where you wonder "how has he done that??" , I'm sorry but you just have not watched Messi enough. (Unless of course you're one of those that believes that the defenses he plays against are bad and that it's nothing to do with him being too good).

i think it may be a split of 50/50 if he is as good as they say he is why can he not do the things he does for Barca for Argentina? Dinho used to do the amazing for Club and NT, i think at the moment Messi is on hype overload but will we look back in 20 years and think he was the best ever or will he just go among the best like Puskas,Best,Matthews,Cruyff,Van Basten, Platini etc

Messi has plenty time to prove himself on the national stage...don't forget that he's only 22 years old. Argentina's national team is in chaos with that joke of a coach but we'll see if Messi will be able to make an impact at the WC in June. Barring any serious injuries, he could potentially still play in at least two more world cups in his career.

Originally Posted by Mystik

Messi has plenty time to prove himself on the national stage...don't forget that he's only 22 years old. Argentina's national team is in chaos with that joke of a coach but we'll see if Messi will be able to make an impact at the WC in June. Barring any serious injuries, he could potentially still play in at least two more world cups in his career.

Dinho won the world cup with Brazil at 22, and he wasn't even the best player in the world then. Brazil also struggled to qualify for that tournament. So thats not an excuse for Messi. To be the greatest he has to win the world cup THIS YEAR. cos wat are the odds that he, (and not a new face like say ...... me, me me, me, me!!!) would still be the king of football in '14? Astronomical, to say the least. So it has to be this year, otherwise he's just another great.

I'm not saying Messi is the greatest ever BTW..let's get this straight. That's just media propaganda which you learn to ignore.

All I was saying was that Messi has plenty time to prove himself on the national stage because he's still extremely young. You brought in a Dinho comparison which I never even alluded to. If anything, Dinho has been either **** or OUT of the Brazil team for about 5 years now...where does that leave him? Maldini never won the world cup so I assume he is just another great as well?

Originally Posted by Mystik

I'm not saying Messi is the greatest ever BTW..let's get this straight. That's just media propaganda which you learn to ignore.

All I was saying was that Messi has plenty time to prove himself on the national stage because he's still extremely young. You brought in a Dinho comparison which I never even alluded to. If anything, Dinho has been either **** or OUT of the Brazil team for about 5 years now...where does that leave him? Maldini never won the world cup so I assume he is just another great as well?

winning the world cup with the NT doesn't make you great (Zaccardo, Kleberson), but having a great world cup (or 2) certainly boosts ur chances. I think Maldini had 2 or 3 really good WC's. plus the small matter of 5 CL's. But i hate to burst your bubble, Cap, while being the best LB of the modern era and one of the finest DF's of all time, is just another great. Legend if you like, but not the greatest of all time. That honour, my friend, goes to Pele, Maradona or Cruyff. Dinho, along with Ronaldo and Zidane, can be considered the greatest of the modern era (1990 to date). Since this thread exists solely because of the media hype over Messi, and dinho is the one most similar to Messi in terms of position, the comparison is very apt. You have to 'allude'( no disrespect intended). And over the same 5 year span, i don't think Messi's performances for his NT have been that awesome either. hpe my post isn't too long!

You're not being fair to Messi because over that 5 year period Messi was aged 17-22, still improving and trying to figure his game out. Dinho, however, had just won back to back world player of the year awards and was supposed to drive Brazil to another WC title but failed horribly.

It's also not fair that u want to compare Dinho's achievements from when he hit his peak in 2004-2005 while comparing him to Messi in that same period. Why not look at what they accomplished at similar ages? Why not compare Messi from ages 17-22 to Dinho of the same age and see what you find? I'm sure you'll realize that Messi has a slight edge in that regard, and that's no insult to Dinho who is an amazing player himself. I don't think Dinho ever had any season as amazing as Messi's last season (38 goals, 18 assists)

That being said, let me reiterate that i DO NOT think that Messi is the best player ever. On the contrary, he has a long way to go before he can be given such a title. If he can stay fit and continue the way he's playing now until he's 30 he won't even need a world cup to support his argument.

I don't really think i'm being unfair to Messi. Why? Because comparing Messi's career to date with any other player's (even Ronaldo's) career over the ages 17-22 is unfair. He's that good! But you have to admit that Messi is more of a scorer, while Dinho is a creator.
P.S.
i'm not anti-messi. He's an inspiration for us not-so-tall strikers! And don't you think 30 is too far, IMO if he continues at this rate, 4 years from now, this debate would be pointless.

Actually if you compare Messi's career to date with that of the Brazilian Ronaldo for the same age, you'd fine that Messi falls wayyyy short of Ronaldo. The only thing that killed Ronaldo were those injuries. By 19 years old, Ronaldo had already ripped through Brazil, Dutch AND Spanish leagues.

Also while Dinho is definitely more creative than Messi, you shouldn't underrate Messi's supply for his teammates. When he draws 2-3 defenders, he usually slips a through ball for his strikers to get an opportunity on goal.

Originally Posted by Mystik

Actually if you compare Messi's career to date with that of the Brazilian Ronaldo for the same age, you'd fine that Messi falls wayyyy short of Ronaldo. The only thing that killed Ronaldo were those injuries. By 19 years old, Ronaldo had already ripped through Brazil, Dutch AND Spanish leagues.

Also while Dinho is definitely more creative than Messi, you shouldn't underrate Messi's supply for his teammates. When he draws 2-3 defenders, he usually slips a through ball for his strikers to get an opportunity on goal.

Well you've got a point: Ronaldo's world cup (medal!) pretty much cancels Messi's 2 CL titles. There's of course 2 world best's and a ballon d'or + runners up (1st and 2nd, i think). How i didn't consider these things before my last post beats me; Ronaldo is one of my idols!
But while Messi's VERY creative, he can't hold a candle to dinho in that department. Not now, not ever ....... LOL!

Originally Posted by shegs1157

Well you've got a point: Ronaldo's world cup (medal!) pretty much cancels Messi's 2 CL titles. There's of course 2 world best's and a ballon d'or + runners up (1st and 2nd, i think). How i didn't consider these things before my last post beats me; Ronaldo is one of my idols!
But while Messi's VERY creative, he can't hold a candle to dinho in that department. Not now, not ever ....... LOL!

Pele.... every one else is considered "etc."