Ca, that's only a few game in Ibra's career. Beside, the whole Milan team played like crap against the Spurs.
WcMilan, I think the main reason why Silva is not getting the attention he should is the fact that he plays for Milan in Serie A and not in the EPL or La Liga. I am not saying Milan is a bad team and that it is not a World Wide Club....but the truth is that Serie A is a wash down league and it is miles behind EPL and Liga.
04-26-2011, 06:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2011, 06:47 AM by Ca Rossonero.)
english media
But vidic also won ucl and has proven there. Once milan does better and thiago shows that, he'll get the attention. People in football know he's class. Hence Mourinho trying to steal him to madrid.
Nesta still gets a bit more hype from english press just cause of his name/history.
BTW you're wrong Gabriel. Messi has been playing CF. Since villa's been moved deeper he's struggled. But I think he's a bit overrated too. Obviously class like Zlatan but not as 'great' as perceived. I mean really, considering how much spain nt creates, he misses a lot to play cf.
If you asked me, top 5 CFs (aka the #9 position) I'd like to have (not counting mess/ronaldo who are different level/players)- Etoo, Higuain, Suarez, Tevez, Rooney and then barely on outside Pato/Cavani.
Actually don't really want Rooney, but i can't deny his ability
edit:
And I'm not denying Ibra's ability class or legend status in Serie A. But he's turning 30, and we attack fine without him. I'd rather save on him, and invest elsewhere. I'd rather see milan play as a team like we did during Carlo's era than play Ibra-ball.
(04-26-2011, 06:34 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Ca, that's only a few game in Ibra's career. Beside, the whole Milan team played like crap against the Spurs.
?
Seedorf was class. Gattuso was amazing (minus the dumb joe jordan who incited him). Gattuso lifted the team. Boateng/Flamini did well. Abate was good. Thiago was class. Nesta and Yepes played well. We conceded on one counter when we overattacked. It was expected with 2 34 year old CBs.
The problem was the attack. Every ball went to Ibra and everyball STOPPEd. Pato was too deep, robinho was deep too. All to accomodate Ibra. Should Pato have been able to play more central, we score. I believe that
(04-26-2011, 05:20 AM)Ca Rossonero Wrote: (04-26-2011, 04:58 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Why r u so anti-Ibra?
saw him live at san siro. Couldn't have a worst taste in my mouth. Walked all match, screamed at everyone about passing to him. Wanted everyone to work 100% for him, and did none for them. Always complaining 'balls too high' 'balls to low' etc. etc. I'd honestly NEVER seen anything like it. Like he's above everyone. That's not a team player. I'd rather watch robinho miss 10 chances but work his ass off with pato
I can't handle that attitude. Same thing ronaldinho did except ron smiled and shrugged. Obviousy Ibra is much better but i think he limits our fluidity and potential.
Look no further than tottenham. He was slow and static, and v. a decent side, it cost us all the goal scoring opportunities despite having heavy possession for 3 out of the 4 halves
I won't deny his abilities, nor will i say i'm not bias, but I just don't think he's worth his wages or transfer fee to us.
Looks like to me you picked the wrong week to watch a game where Ibra showcased his dark side of the moon. Perhaps if you watched that famous tennis match ten years ago you would have been sure that Gianni Commandini is a great striker.
You might have made up your mind on Ibra and I respect that. But I must say it will be totally unfair to judge a player based on just a bad game or two and neglecting the other, significantly bigger portion of games where he plays well.
You applaud Binho for working his ass off so I seriously question your whereabouts when Ibra did so in the first half of the season, not just in one or two games but in MANY games, so much that he won over one of his fiercest critics: Arrigo Sacchi! Sacchi himself said that while he, just like you, never denies Ibra's qualities as an individual player, he's amazed at how much work Ibra put into his team now.
But it's ridiculous to ask for such high level of performance week in week out. Gabriel made a good point by mentioning David Villa. Everybody has their share of bad days at the office. But you can't criticize his wage only when he's having bad days. It's unfair and decidedly convenient!
Enough for this topic, at least for me. On mercato, it's said that we're interested in Luca Cigarini. Two years ago I would've welcomed him, but not now.
per l'amaro e il dolce
04-26-2011, 07:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2011, 07:04 AM by Ca Rossonero.)
The difference is Robinho doesn't take a week off. Zlatan's taken 3 months off and really done this majority of his career. With inter, jube, it's always about zlatan not the team. I question where you have been for his previous 7 years? Just cause he had a change for 2-3 months with milan doesn't change player he is. I was optimistic to begin with, but he reverted back to same old ibra. It's all about ibra. Always. Go watch ibra's inter matches. It's 11 players working for ibra. I'm not interested in that. If he wants to change, then good... i'll welcome it, but i don't expect it.
I don't act for results every week. I just ask for a player to give effort and work for the shirt.
Give me robinho and pato uptop. Give me players like Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, players who work for the team etc. etc. I got more joy out of pirlo, gattuso and pippo's performance v. madrid than anytime this year. That's what milan is too me, players who kill for the shirt, for each other, not for themselves.
I am going to speak my gut feeling. I will not trade Ibrahimovic for Tevez; I may not mind trading Ibrahimovic for Dzeko however. Don't ask why. I can't answer it if you asked. 
Messi does not play as a CF, rather he plays as a SS in the middle while the 2 CFs are on the side abit instead of right in the middle. Villa actually is playing in the same position as he has been over the years. Honestly, you might be the only one in the world who does not rate Villa as a TOP 5 strikers in the world. I am not denying the 5 strikers you posted as your Top 5, but you really think Suarez is better than Villa.
Have you seen how Slowdorf played against the Spurs? He was completely crap in the first game and just decent in the second game. Really no point talking about those two games anymore as Milan got kicked out by the Spurs.
Why is Milan being link with another not good enough Italian? I would have Merkel and Strussar playing over Cigarini anyday.
(04-26-2011, 07:30 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Messi does not play as a CF, rather he plays as a SS in the middle while the 2 CFs are on the side abit instead of right in the middle. Villa actually is playing in the same position as he has been over the years. Honestly, you might be the only one in the world who does not rate Villa as a TOP 5 strikers in the world. I am not denying the 5 strikers you posted as your Top 5, but you really think Suarez is better than Villa.
Have you seen how Slowdorf played against the Spurs? He was completely crap in the first game and just decent in the second game. Really no point talking about those two games anymore as Milan got kicked out by the Spurs.
Why is Milan being link with another not good enough Italian? I would have Merkel and Strussar playing over Cigarini anyday.
I agree that we should not talk about spurs game any more. it hurts a lot. 
I fully agree with you on the last statement that we should go for quality players rather than just their Italian nationality. It would be great if we had top quality Italian players but in the absence of that, I would rather build an Inter-like all quality but no Italian team than a Juventus-like all Italian but no quality team.
Sadly, there aren't many top quality Italian players around nowadays, except for Giuseppe Rossi. I say that we should bet on our own young players such as Fosatti or De Vito or Beretta, but I am going to leave that problem to Allegri. I am sure that he knows those players so much better than we the fans, considering that he has the chance to see them day in and day out. 
(04-26-2011, 07:35 AM)xudong Wrote: (04-26-2011, 07:30 AM)Gabriel426 Wrote: Messi does not play as a CF, rather he plays as a SS in the middle while the 2 CFs are on the side abit instead of right in the middle. Villa actually is playing in the same position as he has been over the years. Honestly, you might be the only one in the world who does not rate Villa as a TOP 5 strikers in the world. I am not denying the 5 strikers you posted as your Top 5, but you really think Suarez is better than Villa.
Have you seen how Slowdorf played against the Spurs? He was completely crap in the first game and just decent in the second game. Really no point talking about those two games anymore as Milan got kicked out by the Spurs.
Why is Milan being link with another not good enough Italian? I would have Merkel and Strussar playing over Cigarini anyday.
I agree that we should not talk about spurs game any more. it hurts a lot.
I fully agree with you on the last statement that we should go for quality players rather than just their Italian nationality. It would be great if we had top quality Italian players but in the absence of that, I would rather build an Inter-like all quality but no Italian team than a Juventus-like all Italian but no quality team.
Sadly, there aren't many top quality Italian players around nowadays, except for Giuseppe Rossi. I say that we should bet on our own young players such as Fosatti or De Vito or Beretta, but I am going to leave that problem to Allegri. I am sure that he knows those players so much better than we the fans, considering that he has the chance to see them day in and day out.
Yeah, I agree with you and Gabriel. If we can't find quality Italian players, we should go for quality players whatever the nationality the players have and give time to our youngsters since we just started to focus on youth development (maybe summer 2008 or 2009, I can't remember well). We already get benefit from it with Merkel got his games not only as subs but also as starter in important position. Don't forget Strasser too. And others name who were on the bench for Serie A even they were not playing like Calvano, Ely and Baretta.
I am with the way management introduce the youths to the first team by including 2-3 players to the team (not just put their name on the roaster without ever giving chance for them just like we did in the past).
"When Costacurta and Maldini won they didn't celebrate much. They were thinking about winning the next game" - Alessandro Nesta
(04-26-2011, 07:03 AM)Ca Rossonero Wrote: The difference is Robinho doesn't take a week off. Zlatan's taken 3 months off and really done this majority of his career. With inter, jube, it's always about zlatan not the team. I question where you have been for his previous 7 years? Just cause he had a change for 2-3 months with milan doesn't change player he is. I was optimistic to begin with, but he reverted back to same old ibra. It's all about ibra. Always. Go watch ibra's inter matches. It's 11 players working for ibra. I'm not interested in that. If he wants to change, then good... i'll welcome it, but i don't expect it.
I don't act for results every week. I just ask for a player to give effort and work for the shirt.
Give me robinho and pato uptop. Give me players like Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf, players who work for the team etc. etc. I got more joy out of pirlo, gattuso and pippo's performance v. madrid than anytime this year. That's what milan is too me, players who kill for the shirt, for each other, not for themselves.
It's your constant picking on of Ibra's wage based on a handful of performances while refusing to acknowledge his overall contribution throughout the season that I'm questioning about. I mean, why now, and why it's always him? Pirlo was injured most of the season but he was awful for the majority games he played these last few years. The same can be said about Seedorf and Flamini. They earn big money too. But if this wage thing is of your utmost concern then why is Ibra this, Ibra that you always come up with?
Inter 11 players working for Ibra? Well, let me ask you, result-wise, did they win something? How many scudetto did they win this way? Zip? One or two? Nope, in the last seven years that overpaid lazy whining sob won phucking SEVEN domestic league titles, including FIVE in Italy. Isn't that something? If you're not interested in that, suit yourself mister, I am. UCL has always been our main target, we can work on that next year, but first thing first. And what can be better than a seven-year tried and tested option?
And how come you said that it's all about Ibra and not the team? I never knew he acted like a primadonna. If it's for footballing reason that you meant, I respectfully disagree too. I think people are exaggerating when they say that lump-it-to-Ibra has been the plan A for the teams where Ibra has been playing the last seven years. It criminally overlooks his ground skill. I think plan B would be more appropriate because when it sometimes happens, it's when his teammates are getting nervous towards the end of the game do they start playing that way. But not for most of the time because Ibra, despite of his appearance, is far more accomplished than your ordinary big, traditional CF.
Every team in every league must have some kind of cornerstone, the player(s) on which the play is built. It's inevitable that the teams base their play on their best player(s) and not the other way around. And in a league known for his tactical discipline where the park-the-bus tactic seems more and more often choosen, isn't it nice to have a striker capable of both playing with the ball at his feet when playing in an open game, as well as a rampaging bulky forward when the opponents defend deep and in numbers? How many strikers do you know capable of handling those two roles? Very, very few IMO, thus as a consequence, his price/wage is pretty high.
Long story short, he suits the style the league we're playing in, he's willing to work even harder for the team (to you he's just taken 3 months off but I sided with Sacchi and acknowledged his effort on this); expectedly he had his fair share of bad days too, and even got sent off one or two times too many, but both from business and footballing point of views, I think he's a good deal.
per l'amaro e il dolce
Some interesting rumours flying around today. Taiwo looks certain to join Milan now as he's apparently agreed a 3 year deal with the club according to most major sources. I'm still unsure whether I'm pleased or not with this move. Taiwo is impressive from a physical point of view, but I question his tactical discipline and positioning at the back. What does excite me though is Taiwo's directness and powerful running suit Allegri's style of play pretty well, so he could become a gem for us.
Ganso also looks closer than ever, with an Italian football agent Claudio Pasqualin saying he's sure Ganso will go to Milan. The biggest stumbling block continues to be Santos demanding the buy out clause of 50 million, though apparently our management is confident Braida will get the reduced to a much more reasonable figure.
One other interesting rumour on milannews was possibly Klose coming to Milan. He's going to be out of contract at the end of the season so would be free and would probably be a backup to Ibra.
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