(05-03-2015, 11:44 PM)lancelot Wrote: Are you sure for this? I read it in an article from Four Four Two some months ago, that Jean Pierre Meersseman, the one that founded Milan Lab and was the one responsible for it, left Milan in 2010 and now he is based on London UK.
Maybe the lab is inactive nowadays?
PS
More on this, check point 6 here: http://www.italianfootballdaily.com/10-t...dorf-need/ (and read what Meersseman states)
i know Jean Pierre Meersseman left Milan Lab around the time Ancelotti left for Chelsea to pursue his own business, this was the official statement on Milan website.
At that time, I acutally thought that he wanted to help Ancelotti and Chelsea via his clinic in London.
Milan Lab continues to be existing and functioning with a new head.
05-06-2015, 12:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2015, 12:43 AM by aim.)
(05-04-2015, 12:03 PM)ACMILAN1983 Wrote: The problem is this isn't proof of what will occur, this point and the post you made about Asian owners are case studies and examples of what could occur. Regarding the failures of Asian owned clubs, it's a trend, but not particularly evidence of what will happen with Milan, particularly because of the strength of the Milan brand.
Even then, I think this is a broader sense of failure, because even Arab owned clubs aren't exactly setting the world on fire, imo Man City until now have been underwhelming despite spending around a billion pounds and PSG, while hugely dominant in France, are yet to make the impact in Europe that they need to.
Point is, these are all individuals who have struggled to make the desired impact in football because of one reason or another. Bee could follow the same path and essentially struggle to succeed, but that depends on numerous factors, not just him and his backers or which part of the world he's from.
On taking out loans and making the club pay interest, it's a practice that's becoming more common place in football, as investors look to make money out of the club. In the Thohir example, either I'm missing something in translation (there's little to no information in English), or the full story isn't being said, but right now there doesn't seem to be much information on what he's doing, just that he's getting loans to invest into the club with an aim to build and hope that investment works out.
I used the Glazers (who btw were advised by Rothschild, who have advised Bee about Milan) as an example a few pages ago. If you asked me up to about a year or two ago about their takeover, I'd have described it as a disaster. Even now I have issues with what they've done, but, and it's a big but, they have been putting the infrastructure in place for United to be successful. If the club continues the path it's on, at least as a commercial business, then really in 10 years time I bet a lot of people will have changed their view significantly on the Glazers.
This is what it comes down to with Milan too. The days of the sugar daddy paying for everything are disappearing and a new era is starting where football is a viable business for investors. While that means the gifts of the past will go away, if they work well, then it's in the best interest for clubs to be run this way, as they will no longer be dependent on certain individuals "donating" huge sums of money, and instead be self sufficient.
Just out of curiosity and off topic, what part of Asia are you from? I'm of Indian ethnicity and also think Milan should strongly target the Indian market, in addition to the other asian markets it's targeted. Football is likely to explode there in the not too distant future, so now is the time to lay foundations to build your market. Also, if I'm correct, Milan is one of the best supported teams there, although the Premiership is definitely the most popular.
I am Chinese. That's why I find Mr. Bee's talking of bring Milan to China and list Milan on Hong Kong stock exchange laughable. It's simply his PR talk. Milan does NOT needs his or anyone's introduction to enter into China to explore the biz potential there at all! We only need capable management for that.
Milan has long been established as one the most supported team in China. 2003 the renown AC Nielsen did a survey in China that showed Milan was the most popular supported football team in China with a support rate of 28.2% while RM at 2nd with 18.5% and Inter and MU both with 1%.http://sports.sina.com.cn/g/2003-03-27/1843414064.shtml.
Milan post also this survey result on its website. What did Galliani and the management do with these findings? Nothing!!!
What Milan needs mostly is NOT Mr. Bee or any new investor but a change of competent new generation management who will focus on business development to explore Milan brand's full economic value world wide.
A broker like Mr. Bee, his expertise is "buy low sell high." From the article on Goal.com you posted and other info. from Internet, I think he's one of those financial blood suckers who'd buy a company in crises with low price, stripe it from its most valuable assets and sell it at a higher price and then move on to another object of his prey.
To list Milan on Hong Kong stock exchange is like to dangle a carrot in front of the eyes of a donkey. Given the facts that Milan has been on loss all these years, lack of income sources and given the fluctuating nature of football business as well as the sorry state of Serie A, it is almost impossible to bring Milan to stock market.
One the owners mention above Vicent Tan had the same dream like Mr. Bee, he wanted to list Cardiff City on the Kuala Lumpur Stock Exchange. But the club's negative cash flow falls short of Malaysia regulator's requirments and was not allowed to be listed. He was planning to to try on Singapore and obviously no success there either.
MU has always been very successful both in business and on football field LONG before the Glazer family set their eyes on Old Trafford. It is actually why the Glazer dared to use high leverage to buy out MU because they had known that MU can generate enough cash flow to cover their huge debts.
Also thank to EP's strong bargain position, all EPL teams can share a huge pool of TV money.
Neither Milan nor Serie A has this money generating capability. Not in any distant near future, I am afraid.
What Tohir is doing with loaning high interest rate loans from his own pocket to Inter is kinda of mini-scale Glazer maneuve . He is feasting himself on Inter.
I agree with you on no more sugar daddy. Run the club like a business enterprise but not an investment (or worse money laundry) vehicle to just enrich the new owner(s) himself (themselves).
Thanks for the info.
I am hesitating on being BOTH pessimistic and optimistic until more is known.
One thing though: Someone valuing an Italian team something like 1 billion in 2015 is not making 'return on investment' any time soon. There is no way the numbers we are hearing fit into a buy low sell high strategy. No matter how big Milan is in China or elsewhere.
Honestly I'm thinking that all this talk about a Chinese bid is bullshit. We know that Berlusconi met with a Chinese businesswoman the day after Bee left, but Fininvest released a statement shortly afterwards due to to all the rumors in the media, saying that the meeting was about the new stadium. This is most likely the truth.
Berlusconi is an unpredictable character, but Fininvest is a serious company, so I'm choosing to trust them here. We know Barbara and Galliani have both signed a declaration of secrecy, and obviously everyone else who is involved in this deal has done the same. As far as I'm concerned, all this speculation about "the Chinese" is just that - speculation, by journalists who need headlines that will sell, but in reality have no idea what's going on.
(05-06-2015, 12:34 AM)aim Wrote: I am Chinese.
I am too!  
(05-06-2015, 01:44 AM)devoted_dm Wrote: Honestly I'm thinking that all this talk about a Chinese bid is bullshit. We know that Berlusconi met with a Chinese businesswoman the day after Bee left, but Fininvest released a statement shortly afterwards due to to all the rumors in the media, saying that the meeting was about the new stadium. This is most likely the truth.
Berlusconi is an unpredictable character, but Fininvest is a serious company, so I'm choosing to trust them here. We know Barbara and Galliani have both signed a declaration of secrecy, and obviously everyone else who is involved in this deal has done the same. As far as I'm concerned, all this speculation about "the Chinese" is just that - speculation, by journalists who need headlines that will sell, but in reality have no idea what's going on.
I agree. It's just a way for idiotic newspapers like Gazzetta to gain publicity until the Mr. Bee deal goes fully official.
All this talk about mysterious investors secretly meeting with Berlusconi is getting boring. At least for me, and I don't believe a word of it.
Mr. Bee it's gonna bee.
(05-06-2015, 12:34 AM)aim Wrote: I am Chinese. That's why I find Mr. Bee's talking of bring Milan to China and list Milan on Hong Kong stock exchange laughable. It's simply his PR talk. Milan does NOT needs his or anyone's introduction to enter into China to explore the biz potential there at all! We only need capable management for that.
Milan has long been established as one the most supported team in China. 2003 the renown AC Nielsen did a survey in China that showed Milan was the most popular supported football team in China with a support rate of 28.2% while RM at 2nd with 18.5% and Inter and MU both with 1%.http://sports.sina.com.cn/g/2003-03-27/1843414064.shtml.
Milan post also this survey result on its website. What did Galliani and the management do with these findings? Nothing!!!
What Milan needs mostly is NOT Mr. Bee or any new investor but a change of competent new generation management who will focus on business development to explore Milan brand's full economic value world wide.
A broker like Mr. Bee, his expertise is "buy low sell high." From the article on Goal.com you posted and other info. from Internet, I think he's one of those financial blood suckers who'd buy a company in crises with low price, stripe it from its most valuable assets and sell it at a higher price and then move on to another object of his prey.
To list Milan on Hong Kong stock exchange is like to dangle a carrot in front of the eyes of a donkey. Given the facts that Milan has been on loss all these years, lack of income sources and given the fluctuating nature of football business as well as the sorry state of Serie A, it is almost impossible to bring Milan to stock market.
One the owners mention above Vicent Tan had the same dream like Mr. Bee, he wanted to list Cardiff City on the Kuala Lumpur Stock Exchange. But the club's negative cash flow falls short of Malaysia regulator's requirments and was not allowed to be listed. He was planning to to try on Singapore and obviously no success there either.
MU has always been very successful both in business and on football field LONG before the Glazer family set their eyes on Old Trafford. It is actually why the Glazer dared to use high leverage to buy out MU because they had known that MU can generate enough cash flow to cover their huge debts.
Also thank to EP's strong bargain position, all EPL teams can share a huge pool of TV money.
Neither Milan nor Serie A has this money generating capability. Not in any distant near future, I am afraid.
What Tohir is doing with loaning high interest rate loans from his own pocket to Inter is kinda of mini-scale Glazer maneuve . He is feasting himself on Inter.
I agree with you on no more sugar daddy. Run the club like a business enterprise but not an investment (or worse money laundry) vehicle to just enrich the new owner(s) himself (themselves).
Thanks, it's interesting to know where you're from as it helps to understand your perspective a little.
As far as I'm aware Bee hasn't talked about entering the Chinese market. No doubt it'll be his intention, as it will be whoever invests or leads Milan, but Bee himself hasn't said anything. Berlusconi on the other hand, did say that it is the strategic plan for Milan to develop their presence in the market. On Milan being number one in the Chinese market (I highly doubt it's still the case), I think it's really kind of a disappointing statistic. Being number one in potentially the biggest market in the world and not utilising the opportunity is not particularly impressive, as you said, the club did nothing. It's another reason why I'm saying that now is the time to build in the Indian market, as football is growing there and with the advent of the Indian Super League, the potential market is enormous.
That said, things are changing in that aspect and Barbara Berlusconi's been at the forefront of it. She's been aggressively targeting the Asian markets and it's commendable that despite a massive drop in quality from the sporting project, the club is commercially still showing growth.
On your comment on Bee being someone who is known for asset stripping, you will need to back that up with evidence. Until now I've seen nothing to suggest of the sort (actually there's very little information available on his past business) and the only comment I've seen is pretty much what's said in the goal.com article, where he buys struggling businesses, restructures them and sells to bigger investors to make a profit. As Reza said, even that seems unlikely with Milan, as seeing a quick profit when investing 1 billion isn't a likely scenario. Bear in mind Berlusconi has seriously inflated the price of the club in this deal.
On bringing Milan to the stock market, again, this isn't Bee talking, just rumours in the papers. The only certainty of the press right now is they really don't have a clue what's going on.
On United and the Premiership, yes the Glazers bought United and could take risks knowing the strength of the brand. However, Milan is also a massive brand, while not as big as United, it's still one of the biggest in the world and as I said, despite major mismanagement within the club, there's still been growth. There's no reason why with smart management the club couldn't be a success.
Serie A's at an interesting stage right now as foreign investment and modernity being forced in, at least within clubs (the FIGC are a different matter). If investment in Milan can make the club more competitive and reach CL every season, then the situation changes significantly. Europe is where clubs really advertise themselves at a global level and if you have a competitive Juve and Milan in CL, things don't look so bad. I don't discount Roma or Napoli either, who I think can do good things in CL or EL.
Most nations really only sell their domestic football on the back of a few clubs. La Liga is all about Real and Barca, France is PSG, Germany is Bayern and to an extent Dortmund. Right now, Italy's problem is there's no one other than Juve, who haven't done anything significant in Europe since 2003 until this year. However, with the success in this year's CL, as well as those of Italian clubs in EL, the press will focus more on the Italian clubs. Add Milan's name into that list, and Italy's reputation and inherent value will naturally grow again. It's whether the FIGC are then competent enough (I don't think they are) to really sell the domestic game at that point. All that said, Milan and whoever the new owners, will only need to really focus on ensuring the club's domestic and European competitiveness for commercial success.
"Zong leads Chinese Milan bid"
http://football-italia.net/66212/zong-le...-milan-bid
The 35th richest man in the world. According to Wikipedia his net worth is US$ 11.7 billion...
So it seems I might have been wrong about Berlusconi considering not selling to Bee after all, as the man himself has confirmed it today (milanmania.it). He even said that there was a chance he won't sell at all, but will rather keep the club and continue to build an "all-Italian Milan". I agree with his statement that Milan should not be sold to someone who is just looking for popularity, but if we don't get money soon... God help us all.
All Italian Milan sounds wrong on so many different ways
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