JuVentus - Milan

No Tony I think you're right, that is what I understood Mrki to mean too. Sorry mrki, I forgot to address that point in my last post (I typed it pretty quickly).

About Gattuso playing down the right, I'm not so sure that'll be the case next season (I don't see how Carlo can justify it after the results this season). More realistically, I suspect a more technical player will play in Gattuso's RM area, or more realistically, I see one of our attacking players (Kaka or maybe Ronaldinho, assuming he joins) to go wide to support the wide areas, as until now, we're often too congested in the middle.

Regarding Bonera's attacking ability, it isn't the best (something I've covered in my original post), but he's shown he's a threat in recent matches, and personally I can't see why he can't build on this.

it was a good game until reached the anti-climax with Bonera red carded. actually i enjoyed the team work in 2nd goal from Pippo-Bonera-and Seedorf if i'm not mistaken.and i was confused when i watched this game. was Pippo or Super Pippo comeback for about 10 years ago? in the last 2 games Pippo just showed that he ain't over yet. he was so quick and right for positioned himself to claimed the goals. the 1st goal was an assist from Kaka who is continuing back to his best performance. he sent low crossed as Inzaghi tapped the ball in to equalised the opening goal from Juve from Del Piero. lolz.. looked like battle from veterans Kalac did amazing save couple times but too bad one of them counted as a 2nd goal from Salihamidzic because the rebounded ball from his chest was easily shot to the net. and 2nd goal from Juve actually was a bit contribution from Capitano but i think Paolo didn't missed the pass. he won the ball from the battle against Del Piero then Del Piero won it back from Maldini by managed to got his foot between Paolo's legs and passed it to other. and i really enjoyed many duels between Paolo and Del Piero. Favalli still displaying a nightmare i think. he must be replace in the next season. Simic was actually surpraised me by made some important tackles or some great interceptions. not a bad game for the guy who is already not playing for a long time. Bonera?? that was horrible tackle and deserved red card for millions time. but i think Bonera was one of our best defender last night until that stupid tackle and changed the game for us. and Gattuso was beaten by Sissoko i think. for during all game he lost many balls from the battle against Sissoko. Seedorf and Max had a good game. much contribution in attack specially in the 1st half. and really i am very enjoyed the team work for Pippo's 2nd by Seedorf-Bonera-and Super Pippo the result can be tricky because that was entertaining game until Bonera red carded. and the subs from Ancelotti was so lame (i think he didn't had better options), put Brocchi IN and took Pirlo OUT when we have to score? and i think that was wrong decision by Ancelotti by took out Pippo who probably could score another i mean he can took Seedorf out for his absentee role in 2nd half. anyway the distance between us, Viola and Udinese aren't change. but we run out the games to be play. i am positively with dramatic ending this season by we are in CL and Viola goes to UEFA. crossed my fingers for that

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Regarding Bonera's attacking ability, it isn't the best (something I've covered in my original post), but he's shown he's a threat in recent matches, and personally I can't see why he can't build on this.

I'm sure he can.
He has a football intelligence, he knows how to play football. He's not someone who made it to the top stages only because he was a hard worker with limited technique.
But he's not good enough to single-handedly cover the right side (in attack) as it was the case lately (even though, he wasn't bad at all, i must say).
If he has someone like Kaka or Dinho to help him on the right side, like Kaka is now helping Favalli, i'm sure Boera will be a real hit next season.

Originally Posted by Tony29.

Another option is to have someone with defensive characteristics as MR, like Gattuso, with some RB who's great in the attacking department, like Cafu was some years ago.

Gattuso/Bonera is a good defensive pair but not good enough attacking pair.

Right, Mrki ?
Or i also missunderstood you ?

Yes that is it. I didnt feel like I need to explain it in details like you did as I thought people understand those things tacticaly wise sepaking. You cant play Bonera-Rino on the reght, or Ambro-Favalli on the left ( for example ).

Its like when in certain games Juve had Zebina and Nocerino playing on the right...you dont have to defend on that side at all.

There is always a need to mix strenght and technique and we had that in Cafu/Gattuso and Maldini/Seedorf before, but now we lost it and its ios pretty clear.

If Milan is to play 4-5-1 next year, with 2 DM's ( AMbro, Rino or Flamini or someone lase...) we will need 2 fullbacks that can attack well. The names are not by me to decide, but both need to be creative enough.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

About Gattuso playing down the right, I'm not so sure that'll be the case next season (I don't see how Carlo can justify it after the results this season). More realistically, I suspect a more technical player will play in Gattuso's RM area, or more realistically, I see one of our attacking players (Kaka or maybe Ronaldinho, assuming he joins) to go wide to support the wide areas, as until now, we're often too congested in the middle.

.

Carlo will not change Rino's position as he doesnt know how to chance a certain sistem he plays within one club. he played with the same sistem in Juve also untill the players got wore off, results went down and he got fired for Lippi to come in.

Carlo is a coach that has a sistem in which he plays in and fills it with players he hets. If the players are not good enough the sistem breaks down. In 40 games this season he changet the sistem maybe 5 times ( slightly ). In 2 or 3 occasions when we were desperately down ( 0:2 ) and once he played 3-5-2 in the last 30 minutes also when we were down. There were few rotations ( Seedorf on the right, Pirlo on the left and so on...) but nothing much and nothing extremly sucsesfull.

Pirlo - Brocchi was one of those moves where he doesnt know what to do su just filles the sistem he has...

I didn't see this game but I was so
disapointed with result. I think
Bye bye Champoin league

Originally Posted by Tony29.

I'm sure he can.
He has a football intelligence, he knows how to play football. He's not someone who made it to the top stages only because he was a hard worker with limited technique.
But he's not good enough to single-handedly cover the right side (in attack) as it was the case lately (even though, he wasn't bad at all, i must say).
If he has someone like Kaka or Dinho to help him on the right side, like Kaka is now helping Favalli, i'm sure Boera will be a real hit next season.

I agree, he’s got a good football brain, his positioning is rarely poor. I don’t agree his technique is limited though, not to say he’s particularly good, but I think he’s solid.

I’d say Bonera’s lack of making it to the top is more to do with his drop in form in his Parma days rather than being a hard worker with limited technique (otherwise I can’t see how Gattuso got so far). When he first appeared on the scene in his early 20’s, he was considered to be potentially the next great Italian defender, but then before joining Milan, he had a few poor seasons at Parma and he disappeared completely.

I don’t want him to cover the right side alone (I agree, he can’t do it alone), but with support from our attacking players, like you said, I think we have a hit. Defensively, no other RB at Milan is anywhere near as solid.

Originally Posted by mrki

Carlo will not change Rino's position as he doesnt know how to chance a certain sistem he plays within one club. he played with the same sistem in Juve also untill the players got wore off, results went down and he got fired for Lippi to come in.

Carlo is a coach that has a sistem in which he plays in and fills it with players he hets. If the players are not good enough the sistem breaks down. In 40 games this season he changet the sistem maybe 5 times ( slightly ). In 2 or 3 occasions when we were desperately down ( 0:2 ) and once he played 3-5-2 in the last 30 minutes also when we were down. There were few rotations ( Seedorf on the right, Pirlo on the left and so on...) but nothing much and nothing extremly sucsesfull.

Pirlo - Brocchi was one of those moves where he doesnt know what to do su just filles the sistem he has...

I think you’re too harsh on Carlo, but I’ve gathered from your posts recently that you aren’t his biggest fan. Anyway, now there is a possible need to change the system a little, whether Carlo wants to or not, because we don’t have the balance we used to, and getting guys who can do a job as well as Cafu and Serginho have in recent years is very difficult (we’ve tried and failed with Janku and Oddo imo). I would like to see us go back to something similar to what we did in 2002/03, where Kaladze and Simic (neither a major attacking threat) were our fullbacks. Seedorf (in his old deeper role) and Rui (our Kaka at the time) were regularly pushing out into wide areas during the play, with Rivaldo/Sheva (who also pushed wide at times) foiling Pippo. The movement and switching of Rui and Seedorf in the CL final caused Juve a lot of problems.

What I’d like to see instead is Pirlo pushed further up as our playmaker (something I think you agree with as I think you said you want Pirlo used as Lippi used him), with Kaka and Ronaldinho (presuming he comes) providing an attacking spark, with the two regularly pushing wide, so the pressure is eased off of the fullbacks, who can time runs more easily, something Bonera has been showing he’s capable of.

thte important thing for back line of a strong italian club is that the last 4 need to be able to defend practically on their own. Which means they do not need excessive coverage from our midfielders. That was the defence we had in ( Dida! )Cafu-Nesta-Stam-Maldini. Where we had Pirlo and Seedorf free in midfield to create knowing back line in secured.

Milan needs a strong defence, wihout that even Pele cant help us win Lo Scudetto.

As far as Carlo is concerned I stand by my oppinion that Carlo is a good coach but not good enough when he doesnt have the right players for a certain sistem which he created at the beggining of a certain circle. He cannot modify or change players habits, like some coaches can. ( No, Pirlo is not Carlo's invention ).

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I don’t agree his technique is limited though

Neither do i
I said that he's NOT "someone with limited technique who made it it to the top stages just because he's a hard worker" (Gattuso for example)

Mrki, I don’t understand your post or argument. Yes every strong Italian team needs a defence, but surely Bonera makes sense then, as he’s defensively been very solid, it’s his attacking qualities that are in question.

I also don’t understand how you can say a defence needs to be able to defend practically on their own, as every great Milan has always required a defensive midfielder or two to cover in front of the defence (Ancelotti and Rijkaard, Albertini and Desailly, Pirlo and Rino and Ambro). A strong defence is based on how well a team unit works, not just the backline.

I know Pirlo wasn’t Ancelotti’s invention, Carlo Mazzone and Pirlo thought it up in Brescia days.

Sorry Tony, I misread your post.

Istanbul Milan:

--------------------dida( in great shape )---------------
-cafu( in very good shape)-nesta-stam-maldini---------
--------------------pirlo------------
----------gattuso----------seedorf---------
--------------------kaka'-----------
------------shevchenko------crespo-------------

If in this team we had Favalli, slow Cafu, Serginho, Oddo and such quality players on the flanks, Seedorf and Pirlo would not be able to play as well as they did, no matter how good their form is. Same thing is happening right now: Pirlo is not able to play his own football ( which is to be IN FRONT of 2 DM's and behind 2 AM's ), and due to bas deence is forced to defend more. Fantasista in the middle needs to know that he has good defenders behind him and that he can risk in his play, and Pirlo doesnt have that naymore.

Same is with the defence - when you have good GK you play 20% better. With bad GK yuor players become unsecure and so on...

yes, but what's that got to do with Bonera?

I do kind of agree, as the current shape of our defence is forcing us to defend deep, making our attacking play difficult.

I don't understand why all people here seem to love Stam ?! I was really thinking (so I still do nowadays lol) he was a very bad player, physical but no other quality ... I mean, he was able to defend, but he wasn't a world class defender, I even prefer Kaladze to Stam ...

Anyway, it's not the topic's subject, here's Maldini !!
----- EDIT -----
Oups, it's Juventus-Milan topic !! lol

Mrki is very right about Pirlo problem, the midfielders are too stretched running to cover for the side backs also the opposition can press Pirlo as they know there is no real threat from the wings