Winter Mercato

Originally Posted by Milano84

--zambrotta--nesta--bonera--antonini--

--gourcuff--cigarini--flamini--abate--

----------kaka--------------------

--------------borriello-------------


i'd be completely comfy w/ that or 4-2-3-1 w/ r80 in center or whatever.

Well I respect your opinion, but cant say I agree. That looks like the midfield of a mid table seria A team.

Originally Posted by mrki

Pirlo is our main playmaker, a player that, if fit, misses out on every 8th game in Milan. There are Gattuso, Ambrosini, and Flamini.

If Emerson goes away, and Milan birngs Yoan back ANd Seedorf will for sure be here, we will have 6 players capable of playing central midfield, plus 2 players that are most likely to play all of the games Kaka' and Dinho. That is 8 players that would be in front of Cigarini.

For a player that is a main motor of italia U21 and, by my standards, a great palyer, this is not acceptable situation.

For Milan, its great to have so mayn midfielders, but aldough Yoan and Cigarini are not similar, thay would both fight for CM spot, with Pirlo ,ambro, Flamini, Rino...

to play 15 games a year for Cigarini is not enouigh. And he will not play more in our possible squad for next year.

Even if I really like this player, I have to say Milan dosnt need him right now, but in the future. He can play some great football in serie a one more year. Gourcuff, with his caracteristic, is a player that Milan needs more as he is capable of playing more forward then Cigarini.

I understand your point and to some degree I agree. Cigarini would struggle to find space as we have a packed midfield. However, that wasn't my point, my point was merely I don't see Gourcuff really affecting Cigarini's spot in the squad, because of their different roles, meaning they're not in direct competition for places.

On the other hand, whoever we buy for midfield has the same issue. We have a very strong, albeit slightly ageing midfield. Anyone we look to get for midfield is going to face a lot of competition. If Cigarini's ready then he should come and be prepared for some bench time. If he's good enough to play, he will do. Gourcuff has and will face the same situation, we just need to hope he's matured now. That's a problem when playing for a club like Milan, you need to be a great player.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

I understand your point and to some degree I agree. Cigarini would struggle to find space as we have a packed midfield. However, that wasn't my point, my point was merely I don't see Gourcuff really affecting Cigarini's spot in the squad, because of their different roles, meaning they're not in direct competition for places.

On the other hand, whoever we buy for midfield has the same issue. We have a very strong, albeit slightly ageing midfield. Anyone we look to get for midfield is going to face a lot of competition. If Cigarini's ready then he should come and be prepared for some bench time. If he's good enough to play, he will do. Gourcuff has and will face the same situation, we just need to hope he's matured now. That's a problem when playing for a club like Milan, you need to be a great player.

Yep, just like Favalli

Originally Posted by K77SH C

Well I respect your opinion, but cant say I agree. That looks like the midfield of a mid table seria A team.

with all due respect, flamini could walk into an club in world and start. and he should start for milan accept carlo favors ambrosini. Now i love ambrosini, but flamini is more talented.

gourcuff is the centerpeice of the french national team. And i think cigarini can contribute to any midfield in serie A too... Perhaps its early to recall abate.

but eitherway when do we ever take all 11 starts out.... in a realistic sense, cigarini can replace emerson. gourcuff...seedorf.

Originally Posted by mrki

Pirlo is our main playmaker, a player that, if fit, misses out on every 8th game in Milan. There are Gattuso, Ambrosini, and Flamini.

If Emerson goes away, and Milan birngs Yoan back ANd Seedorf will for sure be here, we will have 6 players capable of playing central midfield, plus 2 players that are most likely to play all of the games Kaka' and Dinho. That is 8 players that would be in front of Cigarini.

For a player that is a main motor of italia U21 and, by my standards, a great palyer, this is not acceptable situation.

For Milan, its great to have so mayn midfielders, but aldough Yoan and Cigarini are not similar, thay would both fight for CM spot, with Pirlo ,ambro, Flamini, Rino...

to play 15 games a year for Cigarini is not enouigh. And he will not play more in our possible squad for next year.

Even if I really like this player, I have to say Milan dosnt need him right now, but in the future. He can play some great football in serie a one more year. Gourcuff, with his caracteristic, is a player that Milan needs more as he is capable of playing more forward then Cigarini.

if emerson leaves i think cigarini is a must. That would leave gattuso, ambrosini and flamini as only DM's..... carlo likes to play with 2. I dont necessaril mind it if 1 is more technical, which cigarini would be. Gourcuff is a player who could replace pirlo, kaka or R80. Both are too talented, and i dont want to see milan let go of gourcuff or pass on cigarini.

Originally posted by milano84
if emerson leaves i think cigarini is a must. That would leave gattuso, ambrosini and flamini as only DM's..... carlo likes to play with 2. I dont necessaril mind it if 1 is more technical, which cigarini would be. Gourcuff is a player who could replace pirlo, kaka or R80. Both are too talented, and i dont want to see milan let go of gourcuff or pass on cigarini.

Agree! We can use 2 skillful defensive midplayers more offen especially when facing teams like Lecce. Fabregas is too expensive, there is no emergency need for him,and I think gorky is almost(if not equally yet) the same level.

We can use that money on defence and power center department. 1 center back will come for centain.I think the next prority is a quality wingback;I'm not against Antonini,I like his tactic wisdom,work ethic,patience on the bench,all attributes make him a super team guy. but I think He should better be the 4th guy on wingbacks.Zhirkov is the name match that quality and I think for him mentality play for a big club and blend in another culture is the only concern.By the way, zambrotta and janku both make 32 next summer.

The other need is power center, everytime I watch games like last night force me thinking that way,unless we can play seamlessly on a regulr basis( remind me the fashion we play last time we won serieA,which means we definitely have that potential under carlo's system) like barcelona.

Originally Posted by K77SH C

Well I respect your opinion, but cant say I agree. That looks like the midfield of a mid table seria A team.

da court, stankovic, jimenez, muntari

pizzaro, brighi, cassetti, menez

marcisio, c. zanetti, marchionni, giovinco

almiron, jorgensen, santana,,,

these are the backup midfields for last years top 4.... i'd argue all 4 players i listed in my midfield r better than all these players....

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

If he's good enough to play, he will do. Gourcuff has and will face the same situation, we just need to hope he's matured now. That's a problem when playing for a club like Milan, you need to be a great player.

This part what the most important thing IMO. The difference between Cigarini and Fabregas is that Cigarini will find it very difficult to have chance to play especiall when Emerson still play for Milan next season. Cigarini is in my opinion is not yet a mature player (great player) who can step in and substitute Ambrosini.

Carlo, as someone mentioned, will always favor Ambrosini because he is very experienced player and has advantage with his physical condition plus his leadership (vice captain of Milan, next year should be our captain). We can look it now, it's still difficult for Flamini to find space regularly in Serie A even he is prepared to be Gattuso' successor but with his ability he should easily move Ambrosini to the bench.

The best option if we want to have Cigarini in the coming years is buying his contract and let him play in other Serie A club.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

, my point was merely I don't see Gourcuff really affecting Cigarini's spot in the squad, because of their different roles, meaning they're not in direct competition for places.

I understood you from the beginning We just misunderstood ourselves.

gourcuff and Cigarini would not step in eachg outers way inMilan. But Ancelotti will not have 8 midfielders in oneseason: Cigarini, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Flamini, Seedorf, Gourcuff, Kaka', Ronaldinho.

Maybe Milan realised that Gourcuff will not come aback and Bordoux wiull use the contract and pay for him, so we went for Cigarini. somehow i dont find that a better solution for us as 4 DM's we have are enough.

If Emerson leaves Cigarini can come, no other way.

Gourcuff can come in any case.

Originally Posted by Milano84

da court, stankovic, jimenez, muntari

pizzaro, brighi, cassetti, menez

marcisio, c. zanetti, marchionni, giovinco

almiron, jorgensen, santana,,,

these are the backup midfields for last years top 4.... i'd argue all 4 players i listed in my midfield r better than all these players....

Yes, but you as you mentioned these are the backup midfielders, while the players you mentioned are supposed to be our starters.

As I said in my recent post -which you chose to ignore-, you are confusing Milan with Roma. The line-up you are suggesting would struggle to even clinch a Uefa Cup spot.

Also, it's of no use comparing us to Roma, Juventus, and Fiorentina. The only team we should be compared to is Inter, our title rivals.

Originally Posted by Milano84

da court, stankovic, jimenez, muntari

pizzaro, brighi, cassetti, menez

marcisio, c. zanetti, marchionni, giovinco

almiron, jorgensen, santana,,,

these are the backup midfields for last years top 4.... i'd argue all 4 players i listed in my midfield r better than all these players....

But we are not talking about backups, we are talking about a team that can start. How many of these backup combinations you give actually all started together?

Gourcuff by no means is the centre piece of France. Yes he has played well recently, but how many games has he actually played. We can call him a centre piece if he plays for the next year, plays well and play is centred around him.

Cigarini may well replace Emerson who until recently was limited to subsititue appearances. Ancelotti sees Emerson and he sees experience, reliability, closing a game. Cigarini doesnt offer the same attributes. Hence Cardacio not getting a chance despite good reports.

The fact is Milan is rich in the midfield department. We need a goalkeeper and a centreback or two desperately.

Originally Posted by Faяouk

Also, it's of no use comparing us to Roma, Juventus, and Fiorentina. The only team we should be compared to is Inter, our title rivals.

This is so spot on. When Juve got relegated, I was upset because I knew the league and therefore our standard would go down. We then finished below Fiorentina which should never have happened.

I agree we shouldnt compare our selves to the majority of Italian teams, but I would go further and say any Italian teams. Afterall, they are awful in Europe. We should be competing with Barca, Real, Chelsea and Man United. We were already doing this, but we were forgetting the squad we needed for Seria A which is the ONLY reason inter won something after so many years.

Cigarini is someone you want in the squad,someone who can organize the midfield and makes the players better around him,a leader.you say Emerson?Emerson is not natural back up of Pirlo?he is just 3rd or 4th choice for DM,if he is Pirlo's back up,Where is Emerson?Pirlo is injured for a long time but since then Emerson featured little.sometimes we have to play with 3 hard DM's cuz we have not a player like Cigarini.

im so pessimistci on Gourcuff like i said before,as he will never give up fielding Ambrosini,we'll lose him once more,if we really have to stick with someone who can add physical strength and arial ability to midfield,why not we try for someone like Diaby or Rakitic?someone who can be an alternative to Ambrosini,at least more competitive LCM posiiton.

By the way,Honeess declared that us,inter and Juve wants Bastian Schweinsteiger who is free agent for next season.

What do you think about him?

Originally Posted by mrki

I understood you from the beginning We just misunderstood ourselves.

gourcuff and Cigarini would not step in eachg outers way inMilan. But Ancelotti will not have 8 midfielders in oneseason: Cigarini, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Flamini, Seedorf, Gourcuff, Kaka', Ronaldinho.

Maybe Milan realised that Gourcuff will not come aback and Bordoux wiull use the contract and pay for him, so we went for Cigarini. somehow i dont find that a better solution for us as 4 DM's we have are enough.

If Emerson leaves Cigarini can come, no other way.

Gourcuff can come in any case.

Agreed. Emerson is the difference for me as to us getting Cigarini, as Cigarini would essentially be looking to take Puma's place (which is as backup to Pirlo) in the squad.

We're in a strange and similar position to what we were in a few years ago with the defence. The midfield is strong (like the defence was), but it's ageing (Emo, Rino, Ambro, Seedorf all on the wrong side of 30) and although younger talents are available, it's hard to find space for them.

If there's space for Gourcuff and Cigarini (and they're mature enough to play for Milan), then I see no reason to bring them in to compete with Seeforf, Pirlo and Ambro. However, it doesn't seem like there is much space for this and possibly next season, so I'd probably consider a loan away (someone mentioned this idea already).

Originally Posted by Faяouk

Yes, but you as you mentioned these are the backup midfielders, while the players you mentioned are supposed to be our starters.

As I said in my recent post -which you chose to ignore-, you are confusing Milan with Roma. The line-up you are suggesting would struggle to even clinch a Uefa Cup spot.

Also, it's of no use comparing us to Roma, Juventus, and Fiorentina. The only team we should be compared to is Inter, our title rivals.

ah... i meant as backup midfield.... i might have been unclear. My point is any of those 4 players.... i'd be fairly comfortable subbing in... for example ambro sits a game... cigarini goes in..... gourcuff for pirlo etc etc. I'm not proposing a drastic drop of all our midfielders, lol

also K77SH C, valid point on starting together.... i guess i was just trying to say, i'd prefer to have cigarini, abate, gourcuff in midfield rotation than emerson, brocchi (RIP), even seedorf.

if you go back 7 or so years.... gattuso, pirlo, ambrosini were getting run outs at that same age. None were permanent starters, but all saw the field consistant enough. I think we could do same now, and benefit from it long term.