Summer mercato 2009

Fans are acting very girly on this forum for real IMO,by bashing MGT for letting Gorky go,because like Rick said,NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WHEN HE WAS LOANED WITH OPTION TO BUY TO FRANCE!!!!!1

First it's ridiculous to say other members '' are acting girly '' just because you disagree with them not to mention its sexism as well.

Many of us we screaming that Gorky has the talent, Gorky has potintials, Gorky is young, Gorky deserves more playing time and he certainly offers much more than Emerson and Brocchi who play ahead of him, the fact that you don't remember that doesn't mean it did not happen, search carefully before putting words in other members mouth or claiming the did not say something said hunderd times just because you did not here it.

I havent bashed the management for selling Gourcuff (Not recently anyway), but its funny how some posters here decide to view things the way you like.

Firstly, it simply isnt the case that people "suddenly" started to rate Gourcuff as a big prospect. When the news was first announced many of us applauded the loan deal as a chance for him to grow and come back to Milan.

Secondly, it wasnt clear to us at the time that there was a buyout clause. During the season, when Galliani kept vomitting out the fact that there was a buy-out close, we spent the remainder of the season saying how we would like to see him come back.

Thirdly, some of us actually bothered to stream Bordeux matches and we saw a palyer that quite literally dragged his team towards the championship. Something our squad could have done with.

**EDIT** Oh and this player from an inferior league has become a crucial part of the french national side, turning their qualifying fortunes round!

Fourth, As far as calling the French league inferior, players such as Drogba and essien have come from that same 'inferior' league and are now two of the strongest players around. I bet none of you would have complained had we signed Benzema from that inferior league too.

Fifthly, Gourcuff was given chances in his first season. There were occassions he impressed and times when he didnt. This is not unusual for a young player. He was also content that he would be given more oppertunities in his second seasons as displayed by his interviews and the fact he didnt leave then. About his second season, go and check how many games he started and then tell us if you think that was enough oppertunity. I think you will find it was a ridicuously low amount of starts.

Sixth, about Gourcuff as a player. He isnt a 'Kaka'. He doesnt rely on his pace as Kaka does. It is all about movement, first touch and constant desire to move the ball around. A traditional playmaker if you like. This is a very technical and mature position so it is not inconceivable that a player of this type may take a season or two to come good. So please save us from your 'All knowing predictions of the kid's future'.

Seventh, please dont try and tell us that we didnt predict what he would do in Ligue 1. He came to Milan with the tag of 'New Zidane'. He scored on his CL debut. Berlusconi was swooning over him after his first trainign session. Ancelotti was forced to admit he has done well at Bordeux. When we sent him away alot of us we hoping for the kind of performances we saw. The one thing that none of expected was to actually lose him wheb we saw those performances.

Time will tell, but in the mean time no Milan fan should feel the need to apologise to another set of fans. If there are fans here that dont appreciate the way Galliani is conducting business then it is their perogative to 'complain', 'whine', 'b!itch', 'moan' or however else you like to describe it!

Originally Posted by GeoTav

No you don't have to have one ...

For a years time I heard people write that, although I never seen an actually ruling on it. Would be doubly retarded by our poor management if we added that if it was not compulsory.

Originally Posted by kris

For a years time I heard people write that, although I never seen an actually ruling on it. Would be doubly retarded by our poor management if we added that if it was not compulsory.

I said sometimes here that you don't have to put a clause in a loan deal with French clubs and I gave examples like Morientes and Saviola who were loaned some years ago in Monaco and Monaco at the end of their deal never managed to agree on a price ... as there were no set price at start, so no clause.

About Gourcuff, it was clear that the plans were:
- a loan to allow him to play regularly and show what he is worth
- a clause to sell him to this club if he shows some good things but isn't great, allowing us to make some cash for an average player

Our problem is that he turned to be a very good player ...

Also I think Bordeaux played well in the negotiations and probably asked for this clause in the deal. We wanted to loan him in Ligue 1, but not in a minor club, we wanted to loan him probably in one of the clubs where he could have played some CL games, so it was Bordeaux, Lyon or Marseille, no other club. Lyon already had too many players so, even if they wanted him, there was no sure place for him in the starting XI, Marseille plays in a formation where Gourcuff has no place (wingers), and so it was Bordeaux or nothing ...

Anyway, it is past now, I don't think that discussing about the past all the time (because we spoke about that for a lot of time here and on the Gourcuff topic) is interesting.

Originally Posted by M.O.I.

you have some good points there,but i think the examples of teams failing because of really bad full backs are a lot more than the aboves...

the truth is that i am feeling each and every day better with antonini,he really impressed me in our preseason matches,and believe me i hardly get impressed..

the thing is i believe that the money should be spent for a wc dc,and then go for an amc(snejder maybe),i am really nervous about our defence issue(nesta out for 1 year now,ts=? for me,the rest of them=no comment),and the thing that annoys me most is that i dont see any concerns(gali,leo)on that..

That's the point, Antonini actually isn't bad full back. Neither are Abidal, Santon, etc, buy they're worst players in their respective teams. About the defense, I think there's no concerns because Nesta has recovered well. After seeing him in pre-season matches, I believe that, he was great. I really don't know why Leonardo is insisting on a full back, when it's clear that Berlusconi is willing to spend further on just one player, and we have only 3 creative players in the squad and they all are starters. But I'm starting to believe that he will go with Ambrosini instead Seedorf (why promoting player as a captain if he'll sit on the bench?), so he could play his full backs further upfront which will make the team more dangerous on the counter. So that leaves Seedorf as a cover. I don't like the team without Seedorf in it but Leonardo is very well paid for his job, so he knows best.

The comments posted on Gourcuff make me a bit sad given our current situation.

Home from a hard and rough days work, and still nothing new on the market.

But hey! Ho! a message to reply to! Hurray!

Originally Posted by rt9

I'm sorry, but this is really inappropriate and immature. How can you read someone's post and decide whether or not they truly love the team and are "true" fans? And BTW, who are you to be accusing others of not knowing enough about football?

People have different opinions, if you don't agree with someone, then accept it as a difference of opinion, there's no need to be passing personal judgements.

rt, for one thing, the conversation I had with Filipéz ended like 3 pages back (to your post at least). I've already accepted that he portrays himself to be a fan who doesn't rate our elder players based on their recent performances and not their past history. For me, it was over and I'd already started ignoring him the minute he started cussing. In my opinion, thats already appropriate and mature enough of a response for him. You may think otherwise, but thats your opinion.

You ask me how I can formulate an opinion of someone based on what he writes? I ask you, how can I NOT?
I don't know him personally, and I don't feel I have an obligation to either. So I base my impressions and responses on what people post up on the forum. Whats so wrong with that??? He comes out with a post slanting a player we've had on our books for nearly a decade, whose won everything with and for us that there is to be won. I'm not a big fan of the current Kaladze, but as a poster on this forum, I would expect that I have my own right to take offense. Thats my right. The way I react to that post is also up to me. I'm not as submissive as you as in that I have to accept everything that I don't like quietly. That too is my right.


You talk about me passing personal judgment? Oh, thats fresh, from someone who just came by and called me immature and inappropriate for having a difference in opinion with someone, who I might add, has nothing to do with you, rt. The conversation was between me and Filipéz. You butting in three pages after everything has been settled just portrays you to be a busybody and a hypocrite who enjoys picking fights with other people. Seriously, this had nothing to do with you in the first place, unless you're like Filipézs' closet lover or something, so why bother butting in at all? Real mature, man, real mature....

The things I say may offend you, but, seriously, I'm entitled to my own opinion and my own impression of you (which is none too good right now), and if you really do feel offended, I don't give a rats @ss, because you butting into someone else's conversation just goes to show how "mature" you are. In my humble opinion, you totally deserved being told off.

Originally Posted by kris

I think 15 minutes in every second game is hardly "every opportunity to prove himself". You need a stretch of full games to do that. Something a underperforming Seedorf always got. Really, what did Seedorf show that Gourcuff didn't? Gourcuff began brightly was good sometimes, but never was trusted in any way. He never got any kind of consistancy.

Carlo almost never gave trust to young players, which was kind of sad.

He started 18 frickin' games. At one point he started and played the full 90 minutes in six straight games. He did nothing to justify keeping him in the lineup. And if you couldn't see that Seedorf was a superior player to Gourcuff in the 2006-07 season, then I just don't know what to say to you.

Ryo, while I don't really want to get involved with your arguments with others, your posts are going way off topic. Regarding your argument with Filipez, clearly you don't appreciate his viewpoint which is fine, but you did make personal comments about him which you should be aware are against the forum rules. Rt9 didn't make personal arguments against you, as his post implies your behaviour at the time of replying to Filipez was immature.

Whilst I'm not in a position to really force you to do this, I will ask you to please take your personal differences with others into private conversation, rather than writing long posts here when it's got nothing to do with the topic.

Some people like Gorky, some don't..and that's normal, we all have different opinions.

But,
Losing a player that is a starter in a French National team is a bad move, no matter how well some people think they can see the future

Gilardinho is the starter for Italian national team, so freaking what?

Nobody is crying over his departure.

Originally Posted by ACMILAN1983

Ryo, while I don't really want to get involved with your arguments with others, your posts are going way off topic. Regarding your argument with Filipez, clearly you don't appreciate his viewpoint which is fine, but you did make personal comments about him which you should be aware are against the forum rules. Rt9 didn't make personal arguments against you, as his post implies your behaviour at the time of replying to Filipez was immature.

Whilst I'm not in a position to really force you to do this, I will ask you to please take your personal differences with others into private conversation, rather than writing long posts here when it's got nothing to do with the topic.

for me its OK, and I hope its the same for Ryo, I'll just ignore his post, even when I really want to reply on his last post but I wont, I just wont stop that way. I only want to add that rt9 hasnt said anything wrong and also deserves respect, like any member here!

rt9, some people are only here to bash people and pretend to be better than everyone, its not worth replying anymore
Lets discuss Milan again, and just ignore those 'sad' words.



ontopic again! Ole!
Very little transfer news the last few days, I really thought we would close in on de silvestri, but so far nothing. He's maybe not the perfect choice but he for sure is talented, I remember him playing a good game against us. I've seen him like 5/6 times and he always impressed me, thought he's fallen back recently. but I hope we can get the best out of him again.
He's the better option over Bale!

Originally Posted by K77SH C

I havent bashed the management for selling Gourcuff (Not recently anyway), but its funny how some posters here decide to view things the way you like.

Firstly, it simply isnt the case that people "suddenly" started to rate Gourcuff as a big prospect. When the news was first announced many of us applauded the loan deal as a chance for him to grow and come back to Milan.

Secondly, it wasnt clear to us at the time that there was a buyout clause. During the season, when Galliani kept vomitting out the fact that there was a buy-out close, we spent the remainder of the season saying how we would like to see him come back.

Thirdly, some of us actually bothered to stream Bordeux matches and we saw a palyer that quite literally dragged his team towards the championship. Something our squad could have done with.

**EDIT** Oh and this player from an inferior league has become a crucial part of the french national side, turning their qualifying fortunes round!

Fourth, As far as calling the French league inferior, players such as Drogba and essien have come from that same 'inferior' league and are now two of the strongest players around. I bet none of you would have complained had we signed Benzema from that inferior league too.

Fifthly, Gourcuff was given chances in his first season. There were occassions he impressed and times when he didnt. This is not unusual for a young player. He was also content that he would be given more oppertunities in his second seasons as displayed by his interviews and the fact he didnt leave then. About his second season, go and check how many games he started and then tell us if you think that was enough oppertunity. I think you will find it was a ridicuously low amount of starts.

Sixth, about Gourcuff as a player. He isnt a 'Kaka'. He doesnt rely on his pace as Kaka does. It is all about movement, first touch and constant desire to move the ball around. A traditional playmaker if you like. This is a very technical and mature position so it is not inconceivable that a player of this type may take a season or two to come good. So please save us from your 'All knowing predictions of the kid's future'.

Seventh, please dont try and tell us that we didnt predict what he would do in Ligue 1. He came to Milan with the tag of 'New Zidane'. He scored on his CL debut. Berlusconi was swooning over him after his first trainign session. Ancelotti was forced to admit he has done well at Bordeux. When we sent him away alot of us we hoping for the kind of performances we saw. The one thing that none of expected was to actually lose him wheb we saw those performances.

Time will tell, but in the mean time no Milan fan should feel the need to apologise to another set of fans. If there are fans here that dont appreciate the way Galliani is conducting business then it is their perogative to 'complain', 'whine', 'b!itch', 'moan' or however else you like to describe it!

Just a few comments:

If you think the French league is not inferior to Serie A, then I don't know what to say to you.

And there have been as many "new Zidanes" as there have been "new Maradonas."

The truth is (and you can go back to the 2006 summer mercato thread and see) that most posters had barely heard of the guy and nobody was really jumping for joy at his signing (I was probably one of his biggest backers, noting at one point that if he realized his potential people wouldn't look back on the 2006 mercato as such a disaster). Gourcuff didn't at all make up for the frustration of that scandal-driven mercato. So don't go acting like everyone thought he was going to be great shakes when he first came to Milan. He was an excellent prospect and nothing more.

I knew the loan deal had a buyout clause from the very beginning. Why didn't you?

What Gourcuff did at Bordeaux last year and anything he might do in the future -- even if he wins 10 golden balls in a row! -- is completely immaterial. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity he had at Milan and he did very little, actually, when he was here. So Milan didn't really lose anything in this deal. They made money off a player who couldn't cut it when he had the opportunity.

B1tching and whining and moaning about Gourcuff isn't going to bring him back. You'll be doing yourself a favor if you learn to live with it.

Originally Posted by Rick

He started 18 frickin' games. At one point he started and played the full 90 minutes in six straight games. He did nothing to justify keeping him in the lineup. And if you couldn't see that Seedorf was a superior player to Gourcuff in the 2006-07 season, then I just don't know what to say to you.

gourcuff did get his chance in his first season here! and he did OK. nothing more, but you could see the kid was extremely talented, not showing it allways but you could see he had great potential.

in his second season though he was pretty bad, but it was (also) Carlo's fault. Carlo and gourcuff seem to have a bad relation and Carlo only played the kid sometimes in the last mins of a game. I remember Brocchi being picked over gourcuff as attacking midfielder, that says enough...

I also think leo really wanted him back but gourcuff decided different, and I dont blame him, a WC is coming up and at bordeaux he's the man and he's in a team were he performs great! so this way he'll probably keep his place in the french national team, while coming back to milan wouldve been a gamble for him. Its sad we lost him but life goes on!! If we can sign hernanes I would be totally over him!

Originally Posted by Fret

Some people like Gorky, some don't..and that's normal, we all have different opinions.

But,
Losing a player that is a starter in a French National team is a bad move, no matter how well some people think they can see the future

Why, then, do you seem to have the expectation that Milan should have been able to see the future and know that a player who had not taken advantage of his opportunities in Milan would go on to have the season Gourcuff did last year for Bordeaux? The loan deal with the option to buy was signed before he had played a single game for Bordeaux. Not a single person on the planet thought Gourcuff would have the season he did. Anyone who claims they did is a liar.

And I don't recall any of us who aren't frantic over the "loss" of Gourcuff saying that he can't have a bright future. In fact, those who seem to think they have a crystal ball are the ones who make claims such as "future golden ball winner" in relation to the player.

For the record, I like Gourcuff a lot. I always did. I was one of the pro-Gourcuff posters here when others didn't see him as a significant signing. But the fact is that he didn't do much to seize his opportunity while he was here. Maybe he just wasn't the right player for Milan or wasn't right for Carlo's system. But facts are facts. And it seems silly to me to expend so much effort complaining over the departure of a player who didn't do much while he was here. Hell, you might as well complain about Patrick Viera.