Banter 2009/2010

Originally Posted by shegs1157

Since we're talking about players that got away, i want to let this off my chest:
i still can't figure out is why/how Leo didn't request for Bale after the Cissokho deal fell through. He's a great scout so if I, with zero scouting experience, knew how good Bale was/is as far back as 2006, i expect Leo to have noted the guys' potential and made a concrete move for the guy when there was heavy speculation last summer.

Pure logic: if we can't spend money for Cissokho, why asking for Bale who would have cost more ? Because Cissokho was a bit in the same case as some players noone here wants nowadays (he did one great half-season in Porto, a good first half of season in a small club in Portugal, and before that, he was in the 3rd division in France ...) while Bale has been a prospect since 2-3 years.

@ Brasiliero

I got you for that "volante - second-volante" thing. So, that means that actually it would be better if we'd field a "real" DM (volante), say Flamini, beside Jucilei and then put Pirlo higher up, than to put Jucilei beside Pirlo. I thing it's that, because J. Martinez is about the same kind of player as you described Jucilei. But that would practically mean we're out of race of Hernanes as we'd have all 3 midfield places occupied.

@ Christian

Jovetic is playing his second season at the highest level (in CL also), Pastore just played less than a half of season at highest level and only in Serie A. Jovetic was a talented player and now he's already a full-grown player.
But Pastore is not just talented, he's a jewel, a player that perfectly fits nowdays football, devastating with the ball at his feet, but no nonsense player, he dribbles just when it's best for the team, his vision and team play is great, off the ball movement also, he has that attributes Kaka had before he came to us. He's not full-grown player yet, he makes mistakes inexperienced players make, of course he's not leading Palermo to the CL spot by all himself, but the man occupied AM position in a team that is 4th in Serie A and has the likes of Simplicio in that position. I can see only Miccoli and Liverani better than him at the moment, but I see Pastore taking Europe by storm next year.

@ Geo

I'm also dreaming that some day we will have 4-3-1-2 with Pastore as AM and Pato as striker.

@ Siregar

Rui Costa was in decline, and we needed a player that could score goals (and Rui was never great goalscorer), because Pippo was injured and Tomasson wasn't good enough. If you're comparing Kaka and Pastore that way, I have a question for you: What do you think how good Kaka would be if he came in a team like Palermo and not to play in already best team in the world, with the likes of Seedorf, Pirlo, Rui Costa, Cafu, Shevchenko, Serginho...?

To be clear, I'm not comparing Pastore with Kaka. In my humble opinion, when in form Kaka is still the best player in the world, even if he lost some speed. For me he's the most beautiful player to watch, his team play, his off the ball movement (he's simply everywhere), his devastating runs with the ball, his smart decisions... The guy never chooses to dribble when it's better to pass and vice versa. I've mentioning Kaka because Pastore is a kind of player that's most similar to Kaka, similar in all things that made Kaka exceptional talent, and latter exceptional player, I described above.

Just to add, I've watched Man Utd - Totenham match last Saturday, and Bale was HORRIBLE in defense. The guy simply can't defend. Geo said to me Zhirkov can't defend when I was talking about him, and believe me, judging on mentioned game, Zhirkov is REAL defender comparing him with Bale. I would even go so far to say that Abate would do better in defense than Bale.

Revolover you ignored the fact that jovetic is very selfish, which lower his judegement and decisions.

Originally Posted by Lebanese

i really need to know why ancelotti cost us the 3 - 0 lead against liverpool.

Me too , that still haunts my very being.

Originally Posted by Revolver

@ Geo

I'm also dreaming that some day we will have 4-3-1-2 with Pastore as AM and Pato as striker.

I'm afraid this dream will never become true ...
I even think Pato has more chances to play as a striker in Palermo than Pastore as an AM in Milan !!

Originally Posted by Jay Crisp

Me too , that still haunts my very being.

yes man, really with the team we had we should have won ucl for 5 consecutive years, 2003,2004,2005,2006 and 2007 no body was a match to us. i just wish ancelotti get to the final next year and lose a match like istanbul final, the russian mob will hang his head in london

Originally Posted by Revolver

Rui Costa was in decline, and we needed a player that could score goals (and Rui was never great goalscorer), because Pippo was injured and Tomasson wasn't good enough. If you're comparing Kaka and Pastore that way, I have a question for you: What do you think how good Kaka would be if he came in a team like Palermo and not to play in already best team in the world, with the likes of Seedorf, Pirlo, Rui Costa, Cafu, Shevchenko, Serginho...?

To be clear, I'm not comparing Pastore with Kaka. In my humble opinion, when in form Kaka is still the best player in the world, even if he lost some speed. For me he's the most beautiful player to watch, his team play, his off the ball movement (he's simply everywhere), his devastating runs with the ball, his smart decisions... The guy never chooses to dribble when it's better to pass and vice versa. I've mentioning Kaka because Pastore is a kind of player that's most similar to Kaka, similar in all things that made Kaka exceptional talent, and latter exceptional player, I described above.

You and others can say that Rui Costa was in decline but in decline world class playmaker like him shouldn't be so easy beat by a newbie like Kaka. Kaka was supposed to be directly loaned out to a french club! A player like that CAN'T never beat in decline one of best playmaker in the world at that moment. There had to be something with Kaka that made him able to compete with one of best playmaker at that moment.

To your question (I am still not sure what you mean though so I give two answers):
1. If Kaka played for Palermo in that time, I am sure that he would give more impact (read : goals) for Palermo than Pastore (how many goals Pastore has made until now?).
2. If Kaka played for Palermo (not Milan), he still had great chance to be great player like he is today (or he was 1-2 years ago). He was great not purely because of Milan. Reason: look at friendly games that change the opinion of management (to not loan him after they saw how good this boy was/could be). Maybe after 1-2 seasons with Palermo, big club would go for him and time would show that he could be great player (most of players were rated as great, world class players if they play for big club).

To add, I doubt that Pastore would kick Rui Costa to the bench if he came to Milan with his skill this season.

Originally Posted by Lebanese

yes man, really with the team we had we should have won ucl for 5 consecutive years, 2003,2004,2005,2006 and 2007 no body was a match to us. i just wish ancelotti get to the final next year and lose a match like istanbul final, the russian mob will hang his head in london

hahaha You think that winning a CL is just so easy like that? Just look at Real Madrid. It's not all about the quality of the players (although the quality of players play significant role). Where was Barca in 2004/05 and 2006/07? They should win the CL since that time until now. How could Milan dream team beaten by Ajax kids in 1995? That should be unbelievable.

The fact is Milan was the best club in the world in 2004-2007. No team could match Ancelotti's Milan.

I am not saying that Ancelotti had no influence to the defeat but you can't just say something that all defeats are solely mistake of the coach.

Btw the bold part could be a good signature.

Originally Posted by GeoTav

The future will say one thing for sure actually: he won't be in Milan next season ...

I read a statement from his agent or a manager of his club saying Milan couldn't buy him as we don't have the money to do it (damn, this money thing is starting to become embarrassing).

You know what, thats the worst part for me.

That jab from Del Nido last year hurt, but Silvio asked not let Galiani pay just more 3M for Luis Fabiano. But a jab from a small club manager? Wow!!!

However, since the subject of the jab is Max, it turns into amazing news

Originally Posted by Revolver

@ Brasiliero

I got you for that "volante - second-volante" thing. So, that means that actually it would be better if we'd field a "real" DM (volante), say Flamini, beside Jucilei and then put Pirlo higher up, than to put Jucilei beside Pirlo. I thing it's that, because J. Martinez is about the same kind of player as you described Jucilei. But that would practically mean we're out of race of Hernanes as we'd have all 3 midfield places occupied.

Yep, Jucilei can play as a holder(a real DM) and is improving at it, but as a holder I would grade him as 7/10 player. As a second-volante, or box-to-box, imo he has the potential to be 10/10 player. A real world class.

Maybe because of his talent, he's still a little "wild" to play in the front of the CB's, where I think Flamini is great and would be better. To be fair, in the last games of Corinthians in Libertadores, he was asked to stay as a pure DM and did his job. Almost didn't go to attack.

I really don't know J. Martinez to give a opinion, but after to see Jucilei come from a real small club, debut in the middle of Brasileirão(and shine), in a Big (national wide)club with the pressure of Corinthians, I became intrigued.

Now, this year, after to see him lose his starter place for a bunch of big names that Corinthians bought(without merit), and earn it again on the field, without one complain, made of me a fan. I'm sold on this lad...

A mid of: --------Pirlo--------
---------Hernanes-----Jucilei-----
---------------Flamini------------ would be amazing for my taste!!

Originally Posted by Siregar

hahaha You think that winning a CL is just so easy like that? Just look at Real Madrid. It's not all about the quality of the players (although the quality of players play significant role). Where was Barca in 2004/05 and 2006/07? They should win the CL since that time until now. How could Milan dream team beaten by Ajax kids in 1995? That should be unbelievable.

The fact is Milan was the best club in the world in 2004-2007. No team could match Ancelotti's Milan.

I am not saying that Ancelotti had no influence to the defeat but you can't just say something that all defeats are solely mistake of the coach.

Btw the bold part could be a good signature.

i am talking about team not names, effectiveness, my point was that carlo did not use the squad as he should. btw milan 2003 - 2007 is not one team player like barcelona so there is no need to compare, and if u ever watched ajax vs. milan game u would know what kind of team ajax was. anyways this is just ur oppinion and i have to respect it. yeah i dont mind u quote my words as signature as long as u find it funny .

and if u think carlo did not under achieve with the squad he had tell me.

@ Revolver,
he's not that solid a defender, i admit, but neither is Dani Alves or Phillip Lahm. On the other hand his offensive talents are AWESOME: he's a decent freekick taker, an excellent crosser (though he does it too much at times), has considerable pace and possesses, what IMO is the most important attribute of a defender, a calm head. And NO ignazio doesn't defend as well as him. Also he's 21........ his defensive qualities will improve with time.
@ Siregar,
He had a nightmare season, last season, with injuries, bad luck
(there was a time spurs NEVER won when he played!), rejection etc etc, so i feel he'd have been cheaper than Cissokho last summer.

Originally Posted by shegs1157

Since we're talking about players that got away, i want to let this off my chest:
i still can't figure out is why/how Leo didn't request for Bale after the Cissokho deal fell through. He's a great scout so if I, with zero scouting experience, knew how good Bale was/is as far back as 2006, i expect Leo to have noted the guys' potential and made a concrete move for the guy when there was heavy speculation last summer.

Bale, just like Walcott, first caught the attention when playing for Southampton in Championship Division (serie B if in Italy). He started his Spurs' days with a bang scoring 3 goals in his first 4 games and was the first choice for LB. He did pretty good in the first half of that season although overall Spurs was awfull and then he got injured so bad that he missed the second half of the season. When he returned his place was taken by Essou-Ekotto. In fact he's never being fully fit until this year. So I think it's logical that Leo didn't after him earlier this season after Cissokho's deal collapsed.

And regarding Kaka's first year compares to Pastore's, without trying to take anything away from the latter's achievement so far I think Kaka was a lot better that time. I remember reading Galliani said that Carletto called him after Kaka's FIRST training session with Milan, lavishing him with praises. Baldie said that that only happened once in his 20+ years in Milan. I guess that said a lot about Kaka's quality at that time that was even beyond what his employer had expected. Later on the handsome kid whom Sheva once thought was more suitable for modelling, took the place of players the calibre of Rui Costa and Rivaldo, scoring 10(?) goals and won the Best Player award in his first season in Italy.

About Bale, people need to realise that the couple of games where everyone started hyping him he was playing as a LM. When he played LB against Man Utd he was horrible defensivly as already mentioned.

He's obviously talented going forward, but for now he's just a talent, because at LB for Milan he would cost us alot of goals. Think Jankulovski last season just WORSE at defending and much better going forward.

edit: Double post

Finally read some good news about the team. Appearantly, Berlusconi secretly hired some outside marketing firms to evaluate the value of the team. It is said that he is definitely going to sell the team within 2 years. The successor Berlusconi picked is Giorgio Squinzi of Mapei Group. I don't know if this is actually going to happen, but it sure as hell beat anything I have read about AC Milan in a while.