Banter 2009/2010

And during the game, in Curva Sud: http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/milan...dnotizia=24824

Al di là del difficile momento, il vero tifoso fa l'abbonamento

A message for all the people who wanted a boycott this season and still want another one next year !!

Is it saying that a true fan should go for subscription even when times are **** like now or is it a threat that there won't be many subscriptions for the next season without investment?

Originally Posted by vivardo

Is it saying that a true fan should go for subscription even when times are **** like now or is it a threat that there won't be many subscriptions for the next season without investment?

That says that real fans subscribe no matter what happens ...

I was actually fine with any of those two given the freak of an owner

I believe in the article of that journalist, Leo should have been in Galliani's place now. This way he is our of Ac Milan, not only off from the bench.

Curva was strictly against Berlusconi today, it was about time.

Originally Posted by Nalx

I wonder why Galliani went all those troubles convincing a novice like Leo to take coaching courses if Tassoti is THAT good.

Being an assistant to "best club coach" for years doesn't necessarily mean you can be just as good. Brian Kid was Fergie's right hand man in the 90's and he was a failure both in Blackburn and Leeds United. Queiroz, another SAF's assistant, was a joke during his year as Madrid head coach.

And about your other point, I agree that our legendary back four are "very intelligent". Nobody doubts Baresi's quality as a player. But he coached our primavera for years in the past, and what has he achieved? Nothing. Billy also coached some team from lower division last year and he quitted (or fired I'm not sure)without any notable achievement.

"Tactically perfect player" doesn't always transform to equally good coach. Otherwise Lothar Mattheus and Ruud Gullit would've been world class coaches for years now.

Tassotti might be a tough man, but to quote Clint Eastwood from Million Dollar Baby movie: "Girlie, tough AIN'T enough"

I didn't want to prove Tassotti would be good, but I wanted to say he has "material" for the job.
You're too harsh on Baresi and Costacurta. Baresi worked with Primavera, like you said, he didn't get one proper job, so we can't argue about his ability. Costacurta, on the other hand, had one job in lower division, he was fired, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm sure both of them would be great coaches if they wanted to do that seriously.
It doesn't mean tactically perfect player has to be great coach, but it's very likely. If you look though great coaches, many of them were playmakers and defenders. I don't know one striker that became great coach. I know one with success, Cruyff, but hey he bought all the best players and we all know how he ended up.

now after leo is gone and it looks also dinho will be gone, I dont think we will attract brasilians

Originally Posted by GeoTav

I completely ... disagree: Ronaldinho can't be our "new Pirlo", because Pirlo actually moves on the pitch, a lot more than Ronaldinho. And Borriello should stay if we plan to play with two strikers (Huntelaar too actually).

Perfectly right, people dont appreciate the amount of running Pirlo does off the ball.

By the way guys, this is the first Milan team most of us have seen with not even one truely great player in it that we can say 'he is the best in the world in his position'. However bad it was in the past we always had Maldini and some others. Its been a good experience supporting Milan, but I genuienly dont think we will ever recover from this.

Why...

Berlsuconi bought a club that already had Baresi and Maldini, two of the best defenders the world has ever seen and the rock on which ALL of Berlusconi's success has been. Ever CL trophy Berlsconi has won, had Baresi's or Maldini's fingerprint on them first! Now we dont even have a worthy captain.

With no youth policy and no sense to the way we scout, we have about 5 positions that need reinforcing and a squad that is hopeless. This was achieved by Galliani at a time when we were in a position to strengthen. 8 young investments between 2005 and 2007 would have seen us with at least 5 worldclass 25 year olds now.

So the point is, I dont believe Galliani has the skill or knowhow to dig us out of this low point. Yes we have finished at lower positions, but that has been with players like Maldini, Boban!!, Weah, Billy, Leonardo, Bierhoff. What do we have now apart from a bunch players who are past their best or just not up to it. - Except Pato and Silva.

Berlsuconi isnt spending, is ridiculously old and cant be far from the grave. His family have all publically stated that they dont want their inheritance spent on Milan. So dont hope for sugar daddy to pull us out of this one, while he still is around.

Milan's success has been built on 2 things and 2 things alone:

1. A solid defence with with a star striker and star playmaker.
2. Homegrown talent through out the team.

First Milan Berlusconi inherited the likes of Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta.
Then he bought players like Nesta, Pirlo, Inzaghi BUT added them to existing players like Maldini and Costacurta.

Like I said, its been great. BUT dont expect anything big from now on. It really is over. Just look back with satisfaction. And yes, I know there will be people here who say how negative this post is, but I have been saying this for ages [see below] and the lame calciopoli excuses and we will get over messages just dont cut it anymore.

http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21360

http://www.milanmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25769

Originally Posted by GeoTav

Damn, Brasiliero, don't say such a thing !! If this Brazil side manages to lose against this French side with Domenech still at its head, I don't know, maybe Dunga should be banned from Brazil forever ...

To be fair with Dunga(and Jorginho), they aren't Parreira&Zagalo, and will demand the best... Also, I forgot about Zidane. No disrespect to France NT, but in 2006 it was a one man show!!! Zidane and the body fat of our tandem up front killed any chance Brazil's had

Anyway, Dunga said something interesting about Ronaldinho I think: no coach managed to use Ronaldinho in another position (he is only good as a kind of Left Winger), so why would he manage to do it ? I really thought Dunga was right on this ...

Couldn't agree more with Dunga. Didn't watch him at PSG, but in Grêmio he was a real AMD. Ran all the field. That Barça time gave him everything(title wise), but also turned him into this left side junkie... Imo, any team wanting to be compete with the bests, can't manage to have Ronaldinho as starter. At least not this Ronaldinho of nowadays. His work rate is of a second striker, but without the mobility. So, in a 2 man attack, the CF will be left on a island... and in a 3 man attack(as we played), the midfield will be unbalanced and easy to be dominated.

As a famous politic journalist say here with another player: Brazil NT will play reinforced by the absence of Ronaldinho!

Originally Posted by Milano84

as for marcelo... I LOVE him in midfield. Reminds me closest thing to Serginho and I rate him more than Bastos. Like you said he's so young but we saw v. RM what he can do. He dribbled thru 4 milan players on a dime. My hope is Madrid sign some galactico LW (like Ribery) and he ends up being sold in another move of 'name over skill'

Marcelo just need a sequence of games as LB... as he's showing this last month at Real Madrid taking over the LB position. A change to a team like Milan would do wonders for his development.

He was our best player at Olympics(unanimous in Brazil), and even in the elimination against Argentine, was(with Lucas) the one that manage to shine. The player that killed Brazil NT that time was DiMaria(against) Rafinha. Marcelo did a amazing job on Messi(as last season at Camp Nou) and theres no more difficult player for a LB to go against. Marcelo just need a Carlo or Tassotti on his life to became a real fullback.

question for you: How much would Giuliano cost? All the hype (deservedly so) is on Ganso and Neymar. I'm not convinced Giuliano won't be as good a player in Europe. I loved him in u20.

Yep, Giuliano will be a(more skilled) Kaka's type of player(without the runs). Right now his price dropped, no doubt. But as I always say, Internacional is a hard team to negotiate. Imo with the economy in Europe, 15 millions would be the price, but I doubt Inter would accept. I think they will wait until Giuliano recoups last season form. Inter MGT has Giuliano in high regards... Last season they would have asked Pato's money, but the president was adamant saying he would not sell Giuliano. Now, with the sell of Sandro to Spurs, I tend to believe only a outrageous offer would change Inter President position. They have a politics to only sell one "big" name for season.

I'm curious to see the market after the world cup. With M. City out of UCL, I tend to imagine a less frenetic market. I'm also waiting to see if Chelsea will rejuvenate the squad.

Being realistic(no Ganso, Neymar, Giuliano), if I was in charge, in just one trip to Brazil I would take Jucilei, Arouca and Mario Fernandes(Italian passport). All young, strong, skilled, hard-workers and more important, in our budget(until now). After one season, I have no doubt they will be costing 3 times the price we pay today. The three also, give us great versatility, since Jucilei and Arouca could play 3 position in our mid, with the first one also able to help as right-back(if needed). And Mario Fernandes(I will tell more about him in "Kaka's fathres..." topic) playing any position at the back four.

Btw, these 3 are players with professional(and Brasileirão) experience(performing in high level). It's no a Grimmi, Mattione, Viudez and Cardaccio type of purchase...

Originally Posted by Revolver

Perhaps I'm a bit subjective, but for me Serginho, when in form, was the best left side player in the world. It's a shame he was so inconsistent. Marcelo can't get even close. He's pacy, good with the ball at his feet, but he always lacks final touch.

To remind yourself how good Serginho actually was, find our demolition of Inter by 6:0 under Cesare Maldini (2000/2001 ?) on youtube. That was one of the best performances by Milan player I ever saw, other on top of my head would be Savicevic's against Barca in CL final (best) and Shevchenko's against Lazio (I don't remember the year, 1999/2000 probably, but if I'm correct it ended 4:4).

Man, as you said, that was a amazing performance. I'm comfortable to talk about Serginho because before he shine at São Paulo(and claim Milan attention), he played for my team, Bahia. No one can match that pace, not even Roberto Carlos. Watching Serginho live on Stadium was scary... The guy pace's was unbelievable

Only after to see Overmars live here in Slavador(Brazil x Holland) I saw some one to come close. But not even Serginho(imo the most skilled LB of his generation) can match Marcelo skills.
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This part It's not for you: Marcelo just turn 22... Serginho, came to Europe at 26 if I'm not wrong. Roberto Carlos if I'm not wrong come to Inter at 23yo and was(like Marcelo) labeled as anything but fullback. Heck, we was used as second forward in some games.

It was Capello the one that take that "trash" and tuned into a complete fullback. Marcelo just need to get out of the black role called Real Madrid and from Spain and get real coaching and support. Sergio Ramos conceded much more goals(in flaws) than Marcelo, it's on youtube. But is the foreigner that get the blame...

As someone said, Florentino will go for a big name, and I can't wait to see Marcelo out of that place...

why do young players even bother go to RM? It's NO place to grow as a player....

I remember seeing Marcelo at the Olimpics for Brasil, combining with Dinho ( just when Dinho signed for Milan ). He played like he came from hell, making fools out of everyone all turnament long.

A balanced RB and MArcelo on the LB can do great things, yes. BUT with strong RB and strong CB pairing, in my oppinion.

As Brasiliero said, and I always forget it, Marcelo is 22! 2 years in an italian club with serious defence sistem trainings can make him play the way he can. Of course Real Madrid is a firm for commercials, not football... To destroy Kaka' and Benzema in one year is not easy thing.

Ramos - I woulnt pay 10mln for him!! Complete joke of the defender! He should play RM and make us money from commercials.
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Anyway, Dinho say he doesnt know if he'll stay in Milan. Back to 4-3-1-2(??), woho!!

Of course, the important thing is that Seedorf stays, he is our campione of walking and strooling in the San Siro, the coolest model we have.

Serginho - saw him live in the San Siro - spectacular player! Closest FB to him was Robert Jarni that I saw playing for Croatia live, maybe someone remembers him ( Betis, Real Madrid, Juventus ). When Sergio played LB for us, Stam played on the RB, that is the balance we need.

EDIT:

Thanx Dida and thanx Favalli ( for your wisdom if nothing more! ). Lets hope I will laso be saying thanx to Kaladze, Oddo, Marek and some more players.

what are you on mrki seriously? have you seen how many times marcelo has been burned playing wide back? do you want another jakulovski? did you watch any of los classicos? (classics real v barca) did you see how pato roasted marcelo (whose older 22)? AND HOW BASICALLY WAS NOWHERE TO BE SEEN IN HUGE GAMES THIS YEAR EVEN IN MIDFIELD!? in the first game in al bernabeu, in the champions league aganst us? marcelo would not last in serie a he's not physical at all and would get raped in our defense happy league, also how many times did you see sergio ramos get beat this season? or for the european champion's spain? count for me and recollect a game that you watched where he was out of position or did not have a high workrate?

now about dinho i hope he's gone, wow he got 2 goals aganst a garbage juve side! bravo yeah your back!!! now i hope you don't get pissy drunk or comeback 10 - 20 kilo's overweight when the season starts, STAY AWAY FROM DA EMPANADAS STUPIDO!

If Marcelo and Sergio Ramos were valued at the same price, I would take Sergio Ramos ... and it has nothing to do with the fact that Marcelo comes from abroad, as for me, Ramos also comes from abroad !!

Why ? Here are my reasons ...

- Ramos is a RB (I think we need to have faith in Antonini as a LB, and Zambro as vice-LB, that leaves us with Abate as vice-RB, so we need a starting RB).
- He is now quite experienced at high level (more than Marcelo).
- He's still young (yeah, you noticed that Marcelo was young, but Ramos is too, isn't he 24 or 25 ?) and can still improve.
- He's tactically bad with Real Madrid but this problem could be fixed in Milan and Serie A (Madrid have been overall bad tactically, but Ramos is able to play well for his NT, so there's room for improvement with clubs).
- He has a very high work rate, he always runs, always helping forward, and that's what we would need if we use again our 4-3-1-2 tactics.

For all these reasons, I'd choose Ramos instead of Marcelo if we had to make a choice ...

In my opinion, the first defence I'm going to write is a lot better than the second one:

1) Sergio Ramos - Nesta - Thiago Silva - Antonini

2) Zambro/Abate - Nesta - Thiago Silva - Marcelo

PS: Actually, when you read my post, I want Ramos for the same reasons why Brasiliero wants Marcelo, but you can add the experience of very high level for Ramos and the fact that a RB is more needed than a LB in our team nowadays (it's my opinion).

I would take Ramos over Marcelo simply b/c I think Ramos is a better player. Most of my reasons were mentioned by Geo, but I would like to add that Ramos is a much better defender for Spain than at Real, really don't know why.

Sad that Leo is gone as I think he got potential to become a great coach. And I know some of you think he is crap and all, but he deserves credits and pls don't say Bayern is a worse team than Milan as they are actually a much better side than Milan over this past year. To me, it will be interesting to see who is Milan next coach and what will be the transfer plan for the summer. If the next coach is Galli and Tassotti, I think it is a step backward, simply b/c Milan could have those two as coaches last season and keep Leo as a scout.

Anyhow, I guess the only good thing is that MIlan did better than Juve.