(04-19-2021, 04:01 AM)nefremo Wrote: [ -> ]I think FIFA is actually standing on the sidelines and laughing their asses off. They've been for years trying to form a club competition and get a piece of the pie. They've never been able to achieve it since UEFA held a firm grip on it. But now, who knows. So I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA waits this out and then decides to get some kind a deal going on with the "ESL".
Still, I hope some kind of compromise is reached between UEFA and these clubs. To me, it just looks like they are tired of the governing body. They want more power. They want more money.
FIFA and UEFA are on the same boat in a sense, but they also compete among themselves. This is a fascinating game all the parties are playing. I have wanted to do some serious research on this matter for years, but have been too lazy so it keeps getting pushed back.
I still firmly believe that it will all be resolved, at the cost of the welfare of players and small clubs.
Time will tell.
(04-19-2021, 04:01 AM)nefremo Wrote: [ -> ]I think FIFA is actually standing on the sidelines and laughing their asses off. They've been for years trying to form a club competition and get a piece of the pie. They've never been able to achieve it since UEFA held a firm grip on it. But now, who knows. So I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA waits this out and then decides to get some kind a deal going on with the "ESL".
Still, I hope some kind of compromise is reached between UEFA and these clubs. To me, it just looks like they are tired of the governing body. They want more power. They want more money.
I think the way FFP has been implemented has pissed off a lot of people. Ultimately that's played a huge part in announcing this.
The question is now whether UEFA call their bluff or pull their finger out and make the changes that football ultimately needs. I too wouldn't be surprised if FIFA are sitting in the sideline waiting on what happens. If no deal is made with UEFA, I'd expect FIFA to swoop in and offer to run it.
(04-19-2021, 04:12 AM)ACM2021 Wrote: [ -> ]FIFA and UEFA are on the same boat in a sense, but they also compete among themselves. This is a fascinating game all the parties are playing. I have wanted to do some serious research on this matter for years, but have been too lazy so it keeps getting pushed back.
I still firmly believe that it will all be resolved, at the cost of the welfare of players and small clubs.
Time will tell.
I think so too. I think this is the clubs making a move in order to get UEFA to actually sit down, listen to clubs, and make the changes everyone wants.
(04-19-2021, 04:16 AM)porcho Wrote: [ -> ]I think the way FFP has been implemented has pissed off a lot of people. Ultimately that's played a huge part in announcing this.
The question is now whether UEFA call their bluff or pull their finger out and make the changes that football ultimately needs. I too wouldn't be surprised if FIFA are sitting in the sideline waiting on what happens. If no deal is made with UEFA, I'd expect FIFA to swoop in and offer to run it.
I think so too. I think this is the clubs making a move in order to get UEFA to actually sit down, listen to clubs, and make the changes everyone wants.
Good point.
I didn't think of that, but it certainly makes sense too. FFP was a poorly designed and terribly executed "plan" with the main goal (IMO) of UEFA flexing its muscles to the clubs. Milan unfortunately became their favorite target to bully (I resent that UEFA kicked us so hard while we were down), while other financially powerful clubs could easily find ways to be "financially responsible" (responsible my ass). What irony that PSG, City, Chelsea, and Real Madrid were the four semi-finalists of this year's CL.
For the record, I am also a traditionalist, and have been dreaming of the day that Milan lifts the 8th CL trophy
, or the first ESL trophy (okay, the last part was just low-quality trolling, serving no meaningful purpose).
So all the reactions I'm seeing are saying how this will ruin the pyramid of European football. But unless I'm missing something...how is that the case?
To be clear, again, I'm against this. But i'm trying to get the facts. The statement from the clubs said that they will compete in this ESL midweek and still regularly participate in their domestic leagues. So this ESL is practically replacing the Champions League (for these 15 clubs), but it doesn't touch the domestic leagues. The CL can still exist, but these clubs won't be in it because they simply don't feel like it (on a simple level). This is no different then a club not obtaining a UEFA license to compete in european competition the following year.
(Btw, for those who may not know....each individual club is responsible themselves for applying for a UEFA license every year, and if/when granted, that club can participate in the next season's UEFA competition...if they qualify, of course)
From my understanding...all this is, is these 12 clubs (so far) saying FU to UEFA and refusing to participate in any UEFA governed competitions.
So why should the leagues care? I just don't see what this changes for the EPL, La Liga or Serie A?
And if UEFA believes in what they are doing....then why are they trying to turn the leagues against these clubs? Just simply say, "fine, off you go...the CL and Europa League will continue without you"....in other words, if you don't apply for a license, that means you don't want to be a part of this competition and that's fine.
But to try and block this...only proves that greed exists on both ends. The clubs and UEFA. This is no different then the clubs participating in the "International Champions Cup" over the summer. So why does Uefa care so much? Because it hits their pocket. They wanna control the money....but they call the clubs greedy....they are right...but this is just the point.
I was replying to you Xu. The clubs are not planning to get banned. No matter how this plays out there won't be less games played in the near or medium future.
FFP pissed people off but they signed it and agreed to go for it, one of the main architects of this Super League, Agnelli, was all for it. It might have been on the surface I don't know but he was.
Mazen is free to open all super league match threads.
(04-19-2021, 04:48 AM)reza Wrote: [ -> ]I was replying to you Xu. The clubs are not planning to get banned. No matter how this plays out there won't be less games played in the near or medium future.
FFP pissed people off but they signed it and agreed to go for it, one of the main architects of this Super League, Agnelli, was all for it. It might have been on the surface I don't know but he was.
Of course the clubs aren't planning to get banned, because they know that the ESL will not materialize in the end. We are on the same page that there will be more games played; it is crazy that everyone wants to get their share and is afraid of being left out. One of the most ridiculous examples have to be Copa America two years in a row in 2015 and 2016. At least UEFA is organized. CONMEBOL is just incompetent.
I don't think clubs care that much about the players to be honest. They first and foremost care about themselves, wanting more power and more money. They do care about players more than FIFA/UEFA, because they are the one that pay the players, while NT (with the support of FIFA/UEFA) get to use players for free.
About FFP, I don't have much knowledge (I didn't like it from the get-go, so I never had the interest to study about it), so I don't have any worthy input. You argued that "they signed it and agreed to go for it". I suspect that the clubs didn't have the power/option to not sign and agree? Or perhaps, it was too noble an idea (despite the poor design which few could tell from the beginning) that they had to "sign and agree" or they would be condemned for "not wanting to do the right thing"? I certainly can be wrong with these sheer speculations. Agnelli, just like other club owners, probably isn't a trustworthy man, so his involvement in FFP doesn't carry much weight IMO. We have a saying that those politicians are worse than prostitutes. Agnelli probably miscalculated or was taking a gamble with it.
(04-19-2021, 05:40 AM)reza Wrote: [ -> ]Mazen is free to open all super league match threads.
That would be a..mazin'
We are probably going to lose all ESL matches, and ruining our perfect record of never losing a UCL match in the past 7 seasons.
I may be alone in this....but I don't have too much sympathy for players tbh. They (along with their agents) are also very greedy. The rest of us have to work 40 hours a week (or a lot more in many cases). There are people out there that don't get much more then a couple weeks paid time off per year. And let's not even talk about pay disparity.
So, call me selfish or unreasonable...but I'm not gonna feel bad that players have to play 10 extra games of football per year. It's not like they are not (heavily) compensated for it.
Of course, you'll find me on the forefront in the battle for fairness. I really am all about that. I agree players are not machines, etc. They deserve players' unions that look out and fight for them. I'm all for it. But everyone is taking advantage of everyone in this dirty game of football. The players are no better then the clubs. The name of the game is money, and all of them play it to the max.....and then all of them scream and cry "victim".
It's 1 big chain, and everyone is hooked. Media wants more entertainment. Clubs want more money. To get more money, they have to provide the entertainment (quantity and quality) as requested by those that will pay it (media, sponsors, fans, etc). Clubs need to provide that entertainment, so they ask the players to play more games. In turn, players ask for more money...clubs dish out more money. It's all the same if you ask me.
As compromised as football is now, this is the step that turns a competition into a circus. The moment you get these protected positions, football becomes nothing more than a sitcom, or a reality show. Also the UEFA plan to change CL format is simply idiotic. We need some higher authority to stomp on faces of all these bottle merchants (Gary Neville named them like this very properly).