View Full Version : Transfers After CL Returning
It would be funny if Baptista wanted to stay and screwed them all up. If Baptista does go to Arsenal and captures his Sevilla form then they'll have got a bargain.
That's another player i can cross off my list of seeing play for Milan :moan:
zlatanov
30-08-2006, 16:12
excellent, Ronaldo to Inter?? hahaha, idiots!!! now we can snap our 18th scudetto :) and say: " grazie signore Moratti...."
who knows, if Ronie manages to get in shape, he is a class or two above Adriano ... either way, it was obvious that Adriano and Inter had no future together.
Brasileiro
30-08-2006, 16:15
It would be funny if Baptista wanted to stay and screwed them all up. If Baptista does go to Arsenal and captures his Sevilla form then they'll have got a bargain.
That's another player i can cross off my list of seeing play for Milan :moan:
Jim,
I´m not a big fan of Batista, but I can see the guy playing in our team...
BTW, in the final of last season, Batista was great at Real...maybe he will be the same of Sevilla in London.
Inter had the best Ronaldo and screwed him up, I dont see how they can fix him. WEll, good luck. now our attack oliveira-gilardino-inzaghi is stronger than Inter's. And I was just getting worried.... :)
zlatanov
30-08-2006, 16:25
Inter had the best Ronaldo and screwed him up, I dont see how they can fix him. WEll, good luck. now our attack oliveira-gilardino-inzaghi is stronger than Inter's. And I was just getting worried.... :)
that's what I am bsacially relying on - that Inter have in their DNA to mess things up even when that's close to impossible, let alone fix a total mess.
But ronaldo, despite all the nasty words that have been throrwn at him, is a weapon we shouldn't forget ... out of shpe or not, I think he is still better than a totally uninspired Adriano, so I personally see this swap as an improvement to Inter's attack ... now, all I want is to see them prove true to themselves ... and that's a sure bet in my book ;)
zlatanov
30-08-2006, 16:31
well, according to calciomercato.com, Baptista will go on loan to Arsenal and Reyes will be loaned out to real:
http://www.calciomercato.com/index.php?c=24&a=15283
A loan huh ? That's cheered me up a little bit.
For my money i see an on form Baptista as an ideal replacement for Seedorf. Maybe he won't want to stay in England.
Warro Bantan
30-08-2006, 17:14
Just thought to throw this into the mix:
from channel4.com:http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/aug30q.html
Ancelotti is quoted as saying:
“The big name didn’t come, but it’s not necessarily true that a successful transfer campaign is one packed with stars. We have many promising young players in the squad, above all Yoann Gourcuff. The side is also compact and familiar from previous seasons, so we hopefully won’t need long before getting into gear. Having an eight-point handicap gives us extra motivation to do well.”
Now, can I suggest that all the naysayers, doomsday prophets, pessimists, Milan management haters, erstwhile fans and phans, read this, reread it, and print and tape it to their bathroom mirrors?
While its not quite a mantra, its our coach, our tactician, the man who has most direct impact on our season saying what he thinks (or was told to say...sorry, couldnt help myself :D ) about our squad, and our forthcoming season.
Kindly recall as well, that were we relegated, we would be watching Real Madrid and Brazil to see Kaka play? I cannot say enough that we need to recall where we were coming from, and realise how fortunate we are to only have lost $heva, a little **** that needed to go to England to learn english.
Heh, although i agree with 'not need to buy stars' i cant see why ur quoting carlo here like that. What would u say in his position... we're screwed because we didnt get any promising striker and since maldini is too old im one man short in defence?
Hehe i love silly season!
What else is he going to say Warro ? "This team is rubbish we're all sick of the sight of each other"? :rotfl:
It's just the usual automated response to a less than active transfer period.
GilAttack [11]
30-08-2006, 18:08
I was reading Lance and they reported that Corinthians is also going after Ze Roberto. I remember Carlo talking highly about the brasilian MF....any chance he is a last minute addition? Plus we are about to let Vogel walk away...
GilAttack [11]
30-08-2006, 18:23
Edited
Ze Roberto = Brasilian
Mascherano = Argentinean
Edited
Kiplin, please introduce yourself... let us know a little bit about you :dconf:
GilAttack [11]
30-08-2006, 18:43
Mmm...we are going to pay around 20M euros for Oliveira (17M + Vogel) and we dont have 6M to spend on Saviola?
Did we even WANT Saviola..?
I dont know what the need is to keep harping on what may have been. We have to live in the PRESENT. Sure, its been an eventul summer. Sure, we were almost relegated. Sure, we almost missed out on CL.
But the reality is that we are still in serie a and still competing in CL, without our star striker and with an aging defense. It wasnt like the calciopoli verdicts came out yesterday, you know. We've had plenty of time to let all of this summer's events sink in and start preparing for the season ahead. We should be reinforcing ourselves. We got a cool 35M for Sheva---that should be more than enough to net us a quality striker. Why are we not more active in the transfer market, when there is clearly a NEED this year?
Warro Bantan
31-08-2006, 11:12
I dont know what the need is to keep harping on what may have been. We have to live in the PRESENT. Sure, its been an eventul summer. Sure, we were almost relegated. Sure, we almost missed out on CL.
But the reality is that we are still in serie a and still competing in CL, without our star striker and with an aging defense. It wasnt like the calciopoli verdicts came out yesterday, you know. We've had plenty of time to let all of this summer's events sink in and start preparing for the season ahead. We should be reinforcing ourselves. We got a cool 35M for Sheva---that should be more than enough to net us a quality striker. Why are we not more active in the transfer market, when there is clearly a NEED this year?
Indeed rt9...I am quite aware that we do NEED reinforcements...but are we that bad as we are? Can we wait until January? Will that see us kicked out of the UCL group stage, and in the relegation positions if we dont reinforce before then?
We did not have plenty of time, we had a few weeks after the qualification matches.
Please try to be realistic...and the final question, is one that has already been answered ad infinitum by myself, and others here...but if you want, I will try to provide an answer for you, but not now, as I am tired of doing so.
joumasepoes
31-08-2006, 12:59
Indeed rt9...I am quite aware that we do NEED reinforcements...but are we that bad as we are? Can we wait until January?
The truth is no we cannot. Because most of the stars would be cup tied in the UCL, thus linmiting our options. Milan shoul have and could have landed a big signing. There was more than enough time even after waiting to qualify. Berlusconi gave many of us fans that he would give us a few surprises. The only suprise to me is that Milan have made no big signings. Nevermind replacing Sheva, what about the ageing defense, and to too defensive minded midfield. I dont know about Oleivera but the other signing appear to me to have very little to offer. SO i am going to say with a heavy heart that Milan could battle in the CL and the scudeira may be a longshot especially with -8 points. But good luck I love this club and I always will. I am just a little disapointment with this transfer season.
hitmannq8
31-08-2006, 13:05
posted this in another thread, shud have been here
Shame on the management. Promising us a big-name signing as a surprise to satisfy the fans cuz of Sheva's departure. Shame on them. Its like our target next season is to get 3rd spot in Serie A and pass group stages in CL. How fking low can that be for a team that is managed by Berlusconi and a team that has 6 CL's?
Yes there was the calciopoli and CL qualification but STILL our management made DISGRACEFUL mistakes. I mean sending Foggia to lazio and not getting Oddo in return? Selling Sheva for a mere 30m when he is the best striker in the world and is at his prime? and not even getting a player we really wanted in return (gallas)? Missing out on Zambrotta and Buffon? 3 of our targeted strikers wanted Inter over us because of their offers to them (Ibra,Crespo,Ronaldo).
Ofcourse I will remain a Milan fan through thick and thin but this transfer campaign is certainly the worst one I have ever lived through. Its humuliating to know Valencia got Joaquin, Tavano and Real got Canna,Diarra,RvN and Chelsea got Sheva,Ballack and Inter got Ibra,Vieira,Crespo,Gonzalez,Grosso and FKING WEST HAM GOT TEVEZ/MASCHERANO. Shame on the management for not working early in the market, they cant use the Calciopoli as an excuse. They had 3 months to do the transfers. That is why we have Braida working in Milan, he is a transfer director he is not a Milan official. He should have been working on transfers even if Milan were in trial.
Graeme C
31-08-2006, 13:06
im writing another thread about it now, so im not sure where it belongs lol can i quote what u said hitmannq8?
People, we all know that quality players and not "stars" can win scudetto and CL. Oliveira was a good move, but we didnt get our RB cover for Cafu. Cafu surely cant play whole season like he is playing right now, and I really dont uinderstand our managmnent. They did good job in securing us serie A football, CL place and so on....butfrom qualiti signings we only got Bonera, Gourcuff ( who cant majke an instant impact ), and Oliveira for SHEVA. now....did we do great in the transfer window? no.
GilAttack [11]
31-08-2006, 13:19
Dissapointed.
:frustrat:
hitmannq8
31-08-2006, 13:21
im writing another thread about it now, so im not sure where it belongs lol can i quote what u said hitmannq8?
sure np :)
Arildonardo
31-08-2006, 13:31
I see they have published our squad for 2006/07 on the official site now, does that mean the market is closed? I thought it would last until midnight CET... Hmmm...
Shame on the management. Promising us a big-name signing as a surprise to satisfy the fans cuz of Sheva's departure. Shame on them. Its like our target next season is to get 3rd spot in Serie A and pass group stages in CL. How fking low can that be for a team that is managed by Berlusconi and a team that has 6 CL's?
Yes there was the calciopoli and CL qualification but STILL our management made DISGRACEFUL mistakes. I mean sending Foggia to lazio and not getting Oddo in return? Selling Sheva for a mere 30m when he is the best striker in the world and is at his prime? and not even getting a player we really wanted in return (gallas)? Missing out on Zambrotta and Buffon? 3 of our targeted strikers wanted Inter over us because of their offers to them (Ibra,Crespo,Ronaldo).
Ofcourse I will remain a Milan fan through thick and thin but this transfer campaign is certainly the worst one I have ever lived through. Its humuliating to know Valencia got Joaquin, Tavano and Real got Canna,Diarra,RvN and Chelsea got Sheva,Ballack and Inter got Ibra,Vieira,Crespo,Gonzalez,Grosso and FKING WEST HAM GOT TEVEZ/MASCHERANO. Shame on the management for not working early in the market, they cant use the Calciopoli as an excuse. They had 3 months to do the transfers. That is why we have Braida working in Milan, he is a transfer director he is not a Milan official. He should have been working on transfers even if Milan were in trial.
agree with every word. i can't remember being more disapointed. even after Istambul, I knew they tried. This summer was disgraceful for Milan management, and, on their part, disrespectful towards us, fans.
I am not expecting anything this season. Actually, I hope that we will be able to get into the champions league 07/08. Shame on you, management!
Shame on the management. Promising us a big-name signing as a surprise to satisfy the fans cuz of Sheva's departure. Shame on them.
I'd say shame on you for claiming something that the management didn't say. Where did they say "big name" signing? Those are the words and invention of message board posters, not the words of Milan management. They can't be held responsible for the way people in these forums get excited and twist things around. The idea of a "surprise" came from a statement made by Braida. Here is that statement:
“We usually spring a surprise around the transfer deadline and we’re hoping to do the same again,” Braida explained. “It would be good to give our unique fans a present.”
Nowhere in that statement is any indication of a so-called "big name." And considering that Oliveira -- who is a helluva player, by the way, regardless of his marquee value -- had not, as far as I know, even been connected to Milan in the media or on these forums prior to Friday, I'd say that qualifies as "a surprise around the transfer deadline."
hitmannq8
31-08-2006, 15:05
If the Oliveira transfer REALLY satisfies you and you really think he can fill in Sheva's shoes - I really have nothing else to say to you. That simply just shows how hard-headed you are and how much of an optimistic person you are. Even if Maldini,Costacurta retire next year, your the type of person to say "oh, why need them? or why even bother getting new players? we have Nesta and Kaladze and simic to back them up, thats more than enough".
Really buddy, your optimism is nice to have around, but enough of it already. Changes are needed and if its not clear to you then you really are a very hard-headed person.
Now Ambrosini is injured and its rumoured that its quite serious. I really am anxious to read the next statement by Galliani/Braida/Carlo on who will be Pirlo's sub during this time. My bet is that they wont even talk about it. If they did, they'll say its Gourcuff (who actually is Kaka's sub, not Pirlos).
that's almost the same conclusion every year as transfer is over, and we all know what happens.
To replace sheva is impossible; you can't find a sheva-clone and the only player I rate be able to on - par with him is henry who is not coming.
It's funny how some people here think that optimists think that it's ok to let sheva go and be satisfied with Oliviera . To be honest, nothing will quench the pessimists unless... unless... unless... Torres? Tevez? so how do these pessimists thought that these players can replace Sheva? laughable.
If you look at the side objectively can you honestly say that this squad is as strong or stronger than the squad we had at this point 12 months ago?
Personally, i don't think it is.
Anyway ... Arsenal have sold Cygan to Villareal for £2 million. Which if i'm correct leaves them with Toure, Senderos and Djourou as cbs ... i can't see them letting Cygan go unless they knew Gallas was coming in.
So i'd be surprised if we haven't lost the opportunity to sign him in January by midnight.
Well look at it from the bright side now we maybe have two attackers who doesn't´t run in each others way all the time, and maybe just maybe we may look like we can play fluid football again we haven't done it for for a wile now. As a lot of other people here I´m not that positive with this transfer campaign but we got what we got and lets make the best of it OK.
p.s. When people (maybe not you guys) compare a coach like Carlo to lets say Cappelo or Morinho and say they are better coaches it makes me really mad, do they believe these coaches would stand for this kind of treatment with small transfer money and still have the same pressure to win NO WAY!!!!
If the Oliveira transfer REALLY satisfies you and you really think he can fill in Sheva's shoes - I really have nothing else to say to you. That simply just shows how hard-headed you are and how much of an optimistic person you are. Even if Maldini,Costacurta retire next year, your the type of person to say "oh, why need them? or why even bother getting new players? we have Nesta and Kaladze and simic to back them up, thats more than enough".
Really buddy, your optimism is nice to have around, but enough of it already. Changes are needed and if its not clear to you then you really are a very hard-headed person.
Now Ambrosini is injured and its rumoured that its quite serious. I really am anxious to read the next statement by Galliani/Braida/Carlo on who will be Pirlo's sub during this time. My bet is that they wont even talk about it. If they did, they'll say its Gourcuff (who actually is Kaka's sub, not Pirlos).
Yes, the Oliveira transfer does really satisfy me. That's a different matter entirely than believing that he or anyone else could simply step in for Sheva and be that good. Exactly who were you expecting Milan to buy that would have satisfied you if, indeed, you would only be satisfied with someone who was as good as Sheva? Under the difficult circumstances of the summer transfer season, I think Milan did an outstanding job to find and acquire a player such as Oliveira.
There is another transfer window in January. The club can work on reinforcing the squad then and won't have to rush into a panic buy. And since you seem to think Milan's current squad is so terrible, let me ask you: which two clubs from among Lille, Anderlecht and AEK Athens are going to finish ahead of Milan and keep them out of the knockout phase (which begins in February)? And do you really think Milan is so bad that it will fall so far behind clubs such as Inter and Roma by that time that they will have no chance to qualify for next year's Champions League?
You certainly seem to have a low opinion of the club and little confidence in the players or the coaches. :swars:
The first edition of tomorrow's papers (in england) are saying Chelsea paid £5 million + Gallas for Cole.
If Gallas does go, that really will be the managements fault and nothing can be argued in defence for them.
acmilanone
31-08-2006, 16:59
With the transfer market closed, is there anyway that we can get a new player like loan etc.?
Arildonardo
31-08-2006, 17:20
With the transfer market closed, is there anyway that we can get a new player like loan etc.?
You said it yourself, the transfer market is closed... :dconf:
We can buy or loan players again in January.
Warro Bantan
31-08-2006, 17:23
The first edition of tomorrow's papers (in england) are saying Chelsea paid £5 million + Gallas for Cole.
If Gallas does go, that really will be the managements fault and nothing can be argued in defence for them.
Unless Chelski just didnt want to sell the player to us?
Unless we werent willing to match their evaluation?
Unless we are confident that Bonera is a better player?
Unless the player didnt want to settle for coming off the bench for either Kaladze or Nesta?
Unless Gallas didnt want to leave Engerland (though he may have been quoted otherwise, but only said that to speed up his transfer)?
Unless he prefers Red and White to Red and Black?
Come on Jim...the possibilities as to why we didnt get him are endless....
And trust me, I wanted him here very badly.
They're not endless Warro, i mean what more did we want ? Gallas gift wrapped on a plate ?
Before the end of the season and the world cup he said he only wanted to play for milan and didn't want to play in england anymore. We were dealing with Chelsea over Shevchenko so we should have had more balls and asked for Gallas in the deal. They would have given in as you know how badly Abramovich wanted Shevchenko.
You think Chelsea want to deal with Arsenal ? Of course not yet Arsenal have had the balls to say we want Gallas included in the deal. Something we didn't do.
Plus if our management think that Bonera or Kaladze are better cb's then they need replacing right now. A partnership of Gallas & Nesta would have been fantastic.
With Gallas wanting to leave all summer and having only one choice in where he's going (Arsenal) ... of course he's going to take it.
I'm sorry but they just can't be excused over this particular transfer.
Warro Bantan
31-08-2006, 17:57
They're not endless Warro, i mean what more did we want ? Gallas gift wrapped on a plate ?
Before the end of the season and the world cup he said he only wanted to play for milan and didn't want to play in england anymore. We were dealing with Chelsea over Shevchenko so we should have had more balls and asked for Gallas in the deal. They would have given in as you know how badly Abramovich wanted Shevchenko.
You think Chelsea want to deal with Arsenal ? Of course not yet Arsenal have had the balls to say we want Gallas included in the deal. Something we didn't do.
Plus if our management think that Bonera or Kaladze are better cb's then they need replacing right now. A partnership of Gallas & Nesta would have been fantastic.
With Gallas wanting to leave all summer and having only one choice in where he's going (Arsenal) ... of course he's going to take it.
I'm sorry but they just can't be excused over this particular transfer.
I beg to differ...Braida said, shortly after he (Gallas) made this declaration, that he wasnt good enough for us...or we werent looking at him, or something to that effect...
If he wants to leave Chelski to play on the bench, then fine, but as a World Cup finalist, that would be hard to swallow...he would NOT be guaranteed a starting place when he arrived.
He doesnt even start every game for Chelski, who finished behind us in the UCL, and we were only eliminated because of a disallowed goal...
Asking for Gallas as part of the $heva deal, is a non-starter if we really wanted to mazximise the cash that we could get for the man who had to swop countries to learn a new language.
I think that he wasnt one of the players we were really trying for...and as much as we both wanted the player, if our Mgmt, in their wisdom, thinks otherwise...then, they do, he doesnt come (a la Tevez), and thats that.
Plus, who says the Gallas-Nesta partnership would be better than what we currently have? Who was Mourinho trying to pry from us? Nesta or Kaladze? Kindly recall that Chelski wanted the Georgian...Also remember that Cole was a part of the negotiations...we were not trying to give them anyone..the filthy oil thieves!
I understand you being disappointed, but I am not "blaming" management, or holding them "accountable", since they did, what they did, for their reasons, not ours, even if I am as disappointed as you are.
If Braida thinks Gallas isn't good enough for us then he needs his head examined. That's a ridiculous thing to say, if he said it.
There are of course no guarantees anywhere but come on Warro, you know as well as i do he's played out of position there because of Morinho. Anyone else with half a brain would start him in the middle where he's fantastic. He just helped marshall his team to a world cup final for goodness sake so it's not like he rubbish.
Why do we need to maximise the cash on the shevchenko deal ? It's not like we spent all of it ! Who's to say we couldn't have held out for £30 million + Gallas ? I'll repeat myself because it's important ... Abrahmovich wanted Shevchenko badly ... he would have paid the money for him.
Mourinho has tried for both Nesta & Kaladze, but Kaladze had the strongest links and lets not forget the Georgian wanted to leave too. But the main point about that is that he wanted him as a left-back, not a cb. Which asks the question why were are trying to convert him right now. I am convinced (and no one will change my view 1% on this) that a Gallas & Nesta partnership would have been better for us than what we have now.
I don't often blame the management, but like i said before IF Gallas has gone to Arsenal (nothing official has been announced yet but i'll wait until tomorrow morning to be 100% sure) then no nonsense excuse like "he wasn't what we were after" will be adequate enough for their defence.
zlatanov
31-08-2006, 18:19
well, if I remeber correctly Chelski offered for Cole 25 mil, Arsenal wanted 30 mil.
If those rumours in the UK papers are right, this puts Gallas' price at around 20 mil, correct?
So, here is one pretty stumbling block, I think, given that his contract had only 1 year left on it.
Gallas would have solved every single one of our defensive problems. But it wasnt to be. The day we signed Bonera who can play at right back and centre back was the day we declared Gallas wouldnt arrive.
Gallas is a terrific player and of course I would have loved to have had him at Milan. But keep in mind that the reason he has been so unhappy at Chelsea is because they have forced him to play on the outside. And he would not have been guaranteed a starting spot in the center with Nesta and Kaladze. I don't imagine he would have been any happier sitting on the bench than playing on the outside. So it may just be that Milan's ideas for him and Gallas's own desires did not match. We don't know all the facts surrounding any of these transfers, whether real or rumored, so we shouldn't simply assume that the management screwed up. They had their reasons for everything they did.
Gallas would have solved every single one of our defensive problems. But it wasnt to be. The day we signed Bonera who can play at right back and centre back was the day we declared Gallas wouldnt arrive.
And the day Milan inserted Gallas into the lineup at right back would have been the day Milan had a very unhappy player on their hands, so maybe Bonera was the better choice because of that.
And the day Milan inserted Gallas into the lineup at right back would have been the day Milan had a very unhappy player on their hands, so maybe Bonera was the better choice because of that.
You may have a point.
Arsenal would have accepted around £15 million from anyone else and wanted £25 million off of Chelsea. Because the deal was left so late, Chelsea knew they had the bargaining power and the possible upper hand.
If we had gone in early when Gallas declared he wanted to play for only us and wanted to leave, we'd have had the upper hand. I'm not saying it would have been a piece of cake, but it wouldn't have been a great stretch to include Gallas in the Shevchenko deal.
If Nesta & Kaladze had been partnered together for years then this idea of Gallas not playing in the middle would have some merit. But they haven't been a pairing for years and Kaladze is a left back and not a centre back ... so why is it such a hard thing to realise that Gallas could have easily started this season in the middle with Nesta ?
Well as usual the only winner is Chelsea. Their rivals Arsenal have an upset young player on their books who will wait for his contract to expire. they keep on to Gallas who will keep playing for another season until hes what 30 and then he can go. Its not like they need the money.
If Nesta & Kaladze had been partnered together for years then this idea of Gallas not playing in the middle would have some merit. But they haven't been a pairing for years and Kaladze is a left back and not a centre back ... so why is it such a hard thing to realise that Gallas could have easily started this season in the middle with Nesta ?
Maldini puts a wrench in the works there, but theres no guarantee he wont be out all season again. Otherwise Gallas is quite simply a better player than Kaladze.
Warro Bantan
31-08-2006, 18:31
Kindly be aware Jim, that Kaladze´s preferred position is CB, the position he plays for his country.
Well you learn something new everyday Warro.
It is his preferred position but has always said he will play where ever he is needed as long as he plays regularily. He gets injured without consistent games or thats what Lobanovski told him anyway.
Last season at centre back was one of his best though.
To be perfectly frank, I would have questions about Gallas' attitude anyway. He's been a regular in the lineup of a team that has won two consecutive Premiership titles and advanced as far as the semifinals of the Champions League, yet he has been unhappy the entire time because he wasn't playing the position he wanted to play. There are a lot of fine players who would gladly have exchanged places with him and been happy no matter what position they were inserted in the lineup. Maybe it's better to have guys like Kaladze who are willing to do whatever they are asked. Maybe that's why Mourinho was interested in Kaladze two years ago.
It is strange, but he did keep banging on about a new experience and knowing you have made it when you pull a Milan shirt on. I always thought he was one of those players that sought a new challenge a little like his mate Zidane.
I'm sure Rick your attitude would be questionable if you were told you would play at cb only to find you keep getting played out of position. Yes Gallas voiced his opinion, he let be known that given the choice cb was the position he wanted, but he always accepted the other positions.
He only started voicing his opinions in a stronger way at the start of the year when he mentioned it might be time to move on.
You can dress it up how you like, you can try to find excuses why we didn't get him or even try to gloss over it, but it seems we didn't try hard enough to get a player that would have improved our squad when he more or less begged to move to us before the world cup. That to me is a mistake.
Maybe Gallas not coming to Milan got something to do with the things he said after the world cup about Italians and cheats, I mean come on, insult his new team!!! thats a good start yeah good work man
*sighs*
When was the time Gallas was making all the right noises about wanting to play for us? Before the world cup. When was he saying he really wanted to leave? Before the world cup. When did Chelsea want Shevchenko? Before the world cup .... so the best time to have concluded this deal? ... Anyone? .... Yes, before the world cup.
Had this deal been done at this time, which is something i've said all along, then he wouldn't have made those exact comments would he. Which would by and large make this point against him quite irrelevant.
*sighs*
When was the time Gallas was making all the right noises about wanting to play for us? Before the world cup. When was he saying he really wanted to leave? Before the world cup. When did Chelsea want Shevchenko? Before the world cup .... so the best time to have concluded this deal? ... Anyone? .... Yes, before the world cup.
Had this deal been done at this time, which is something i've said all along, then he wouldn't have made those exact comments would he. Which would by and large make this point against him quite irrelevant.
Is this aimed at my post? If it is I´m just saying that he talked a little to much after the WC final, don't you agree?
zlatanov
01-09-2006, 06:56
*sighs*
When was the time Gallas was making all the right noises about wanting to play for us? Before the world cup. When was he saying he really wanted to leave? Before the world cup. When did Chelsea want Shevchenko? Before the world cup .... so the best time to have concluded this deal? ... Anyone? .... Yes, before the world cup.
Had this deal been done at this time, which is something i've said all along, then he wouldn't have made those exact comments would he. Which would by and large make this point against him quite irrelevant.
believe it or not, Jim, I expected that you are gonna go this route ... yesterday, so I dutifully prepared my answer :grinser:
The thing is that there is a good chance that Milan management had reasons, aka signals from all those calciopoli tribunals, to believe that Milan might end up being relegated just like all three other teams originally were. These reasons/signals are something we, fans, would hardly know about but they would ... especially if their lawyers had prepped them for the worse ... and by saying this I don't wanna go into a debate whether we were clean or guilty because I am sure we both know that a courts decission is just that, a court's decision and one could be punished no matter whether guilty or not.
Anyways, there is a good chance that they had reasons to fear a relegation ... and of course in a situation like that, you can't just assume that the appeal would work - as it did for Lazio and Fiorentina - so they had to prep for the worse and sold Sheva for as much hard cash as they could possibly get - no makeweights liek Gallas, Crespo or whatever becuase in a possible demotion to Serie B, one would hardly need such players (chances are they wouldn't have stayed even if we wanted them to), while the financial losses for the club would have been enormous ... so, Milan board wanted to make sure that if we were dropped, we had money to cover at least partially those losses.
Why we didn't sell Sheva after the world cup in an attempt to geth more cash from Chelski and maybe give it some time to see what the chances of us being relegated really were? Well, what if Sheva got seriously injured during the WC? Imagine what effect that would have on his price ...
Also, Galliani was well aware of what Gallas had said about Milan, and he made that clear by referring to teh Frenchman as "a very interesting player". When the time to deal Sheva with Chelski came, do you really believe that the thought of including Gallas in the deal didn't cross his mind? I mean, one doesn't need to be a genious to connect to dots and reach an obvious conclusion, right?
Again, we fans, just because our transfer campaign wasn't as headline-making as Inter's, are pretty quick to go ahead with assumptions for this and that - and I mean this for everybody, including myself ;) - but we have to remember that the people we call so often with names like meatheads, idiots, dumb-butts or whatever, are people who have been doing what they are doing for a long, long time - for most members here, before they were even born ;) - and given the heights Milan has conquered, I would say they know what they are doing.
We shouldn't also forget that they have resources that allow them to know certain things about players or other clubs for a fact, things that we simply cannot know, so when they make a certain decision, reast assured my friend that that decision was well measured on the basis of many more possible outcomes than any of us here could have come up with our limited resources, which consist of mostly 2-3 websites and unfounded rumour(s) we somehow manage to pick up here and there.
well, that was about it ...
I can't say i totally agree no. The guy just lost a world cup on penalties and he spoke out of anger. Maybe he did go too far, i don't know, it's not for me to decide.
zZ[-_-]Zz
01-09-2006, 07:16
Chelsea paid Arsenal 5 million pounds + Gallas for Cole... Arsenal once refused 20 million pounds for Cole... so basically Chelsea valued Gallas at about 15 million pounds... and imagine had we gotten him in exchange for Shevchenko... he would have been valued higher since they were not so desperate to sell him back than... for all you know... the only way Chelsea would allow Gallas to join Milan back than was a straight swoop of the players... imagine... Shevchenko to Chelsea & Gallas to Milan... no other cash involved... that my friend would have been stupid...
I can't say i totally agree no. The guy just lost a world cup on penalties and he spoke out of anger. Maybe he did go too far, i don't know, it's not for me to decide.
Not me either but I´m happy that we didn't got him because i would have a hard time seeing him in the Milan colors after that outburst
p.s. I don´t doubt his football qualities he´s great but man he really disappointed me that day.
You're painting them out to be saints who never get anything wrong Zlatanov and i'm sorry, but as good as your post is it doesn't change my opinion that they made a mistake with Gallas.
zlatanov
01-09-2006, 07:44
You're painting them out to be saints who never get anything wrong Zlatanov and i'm sorry, but as good as your post is it doesn't change my opinion that they made a mistake with Gallas.
you didn't get my point, Jim. I didn't and don't claim that every decision they make is the best ... I claim that, after all the love signs between Gallas and Milan, which flooded the press, including Gallas in the Sheva-deal was just too OBVIOUS of a decision even for a complete amateur in transfer matters to miss ... let alone someone who has been doing transfer deals for over 20 years now for one of the most successful clubs, if not the most successful, of these past 20 years.
What I claim is that they couldn't have possibly missed something as eye-pokingly obvious as that ... and if they didn't do it, then they must have had a damn good reason not to ... something that we don't know about.
you didn't get my point, Jim. I didn't and don't claim that every decision they make is the best ... I claim that, after all the love signs between Gallas and Milan, which flooded the press, including Gallas in the Sheva-deal was just too OBVIOUS of a decision even for a complete amateur in transfer matters to miss ... let alone someone who has been doing transfer deals for over 20 years now for one of the most successful clubs, if not the most successful, of these past 20 years.
What I claim is that they couldn't have possibly missed something as eye-pokingly obvious as that ... and if they didn't do it, then they must have had a damn good reason not to ... something that we don't know about.
I can think of a pretty good reason. The Ashley Cole deal was supposed to be about 20 million pounds. Instead it was Gallas and 5 million pounds. So, in effect, Chelsea got 15 million pounds for Gallas. I don't think I would have wanted Milan to give them Sheva for Gallas and just 15 million. :p157:
Mourinho said that we never asked for Gallas to be part of the Shevchenko deal and we never enquired about him as a seperate transfer. So either they did miss "something as eye-pokingly obvious as that" (as you put it) or they have an excuse lined up as to why we didn't go for him.
Arsenal inflated the price of Cole deliberately when they dealt with Chelsea. It's widely believed they would have accepted a lower bid for Cole if another club had come in. Just as Chelsea didn't want to sell Gallas to Arsenal, Arsenal didn't want to sell Cole to Chelsea ... strengthening premiership rivals and all that. As this was the case this transfer was always going to appear inflated.
As Gallas is in the last year of his contract, despite what Chelsea value him at, his market price is probably no more than £10 million. So i think we could have got £25 million & Gallas, if not a bit more. Just as Berlusconi is desperate to get Ronaldinho and would do pretty much anything it seems to get him, Abrahmovich would have done something similar for Shevchenko. So maybe our negotiators are losing their touch at negotiating.
zlatanov
01-09-2006, 08:31
Mourinho said that we never asked for Gallas to be part of the Shevchenko deal and we never enquired about him as a seperate transfer. So either they did miss "something as eye-pokingly obvious as that" (as you put it) or they have an excuse lined up as to why we didn't go for him.
well, Jim, I guess the above does support my little "theory" that there must have been a reason - even without considering the Gallas-Cashley Cole swap - why we never included Gallas in the Sheva-deal, or to put it in another way - why we never made an inquiry about getting Gallas once a possible relegation to Serie B loomed as a real threat to Milan.
P.S. To be honest, I am not quite sure what you really meant by what I quoted above, since it's doesn't negate in any way the point I have been trying to make all along.
Whatever the reason, they made a mistake as far as i'm concerned.
Mourinho said that we never asked for Gallas to be part of the Shevchenko deal and we never enquired about him as a seperate transfer. So either they did miss "something as eye-pokingly obvious as that" (as you put it) or they have an excuse lined up as to why we didn't go for him.
Arsenal inflated the price of Cole deliberately when they dealt with Chelsea. It's widely believed they would have accepted a lower bid for Cole if another club had come in. Just as Chelsea didn't want to sell Gallas to Arsenal, Arsenal didn't want to sell Cole to Chelsea ... strengthening premiership rivals and all that. As this was the case this transfer was always going to appear inflated.
As Gallas is in the last year of his contract, despite what Chelsea value him at, his market price is probably no more than £10 million. So i think we could have got £25 million & Gallas, if not a bit more. Just as Berlusconi is desperate to get Ronaldinho and would do pretty much anything it seems to get him, Abrahmovich would have done something similar for Shevchenko. So maybe our negotiators are losing their touch at negotiating.
Even if his market price is 10 million or less, maybe Milan thought that would be too much to pay for a player who has spent the past two years sulking because he had to play left back instead of center back to earn his 70,000 pound per week wages. If Milan had bought Gallas, they could not have played him at fullback without making him unhappy and he would not have been guaranteed to start in the middle with Nesta and Kaladze already settled there. Is it really worth paying 10 million or even 5, plus 70,000 a week for such a player? I don't see not bringing in Gallas as such a big loss as some here seem to think it is.
You mean like how Simic sulks? Or like Ambrosini and Gattuso have sulked in the past?
Well, for the team he wanted to join above anyone else, i'm sure he would have been more than willing to accept playing a full-back role to get a foothold into the side and then move on to centre-back.
Just as you fail to see that we've missed an important player in Gallas, i fail to see why Kaladze has cemented a centre-back position after playing there for less than a whole season and by being largely inconsistent in that role.
Also, when you consider the other defenders that we'll have to buy next summer, there aren't that many that are as good as Gallas. Alex, Barzagli, Chivu, Marquez, Dracema, Lugano ... none of them were better than Gallas and i should imagine each one of them (with the possible exception of Dracema) would cost around or more than £10 million.
You mean like how Simic sulks? Or like Ambrosini and Gattuso have sulked in the past?
Well, for the team he wanted to join above anyone else, i'm sure he would have been more than willing to accept playing a full-back role to get a foothold into the side and then move on to centre-back.
Just as you fail to see that we've missed an important player in Gallas, i fail to see why Kaladze has cemented a centre-back position after playing there for less than a whole season and by being largely inconsistent in that role.
Also, when you consider the other defenders that we'll have to buy next summer, there aren't that many that are as good as Gallas. Alex, Barzagli, Chivu, Marquez, Dracema, Lugano ... none of them were better than Gallas and i should imagine each one of them (with the possible exception of Dracema) would cost around or more than £10 million.
Every club ends up with players who sulk from time to time. That doesn't mean you go out looking for them. I don't recall any of the players you mentioned being unhappy to the point they placed themselves in the position in which Gallas had placed himself. I don't recall any of them simply failing to show up for a tour of the United States, as Gallas did this summer.
I never denied that Gallas is a talented player. Nor did I ever claim he couldn't win Kaladze's spot. I merely said it would not be guaranteed that he would earn that spot. And don't delude yourself into thinking he would have happily accepted a fullback role at Milan. It was the only reason he was unhappy at Chelsea, where he had been quite happy playing in the middle for a number of years before being switched the past two seasons.
I just don't see that Gallas is so much better than a lot of other options and besides that, you can't just throw money at Chelsea to get a player. It means nothing to them. If you believe the papers, Mourinho was furious at Peter Kenyon for including Gallas in the Ashley Cole deal because he wanted to make an example of Gallas and force him to play out the final year of his contract in the reserves. So how could you reasonably expect Milan to have had any chance of getting this player?
Any actions Gallas made after the world cup are to me quite frankly irrelevant as by that stage things had boiled to such a point that he needed to do something extreme to get Chelsea to realise he wouldn't accept rotting on the bench but wanted to leave. Is that such a crime ?
How have i deluded myself into thinking he'd happily accept a full-back position? I've done no such thing, i said he'd take the position to start with to get into the team and then look to get a cb position. There's a difference between being a cb for so many years and then being shifted from pillar to post to suit the manager ... and starting in a new team as a full-back and trying to win a cb spot.
If you don't see him as so much better than other options then there's not much i can do to change that. But he is better and that's the point. Again you're making judgements on what has happened since the world cup, Chelsea were still negotiating with Gallas before the world cup to try and make him stay, Mourinho at that point hadn't come to the conclusion that he must make him rot in the reserves. Again, i also go back to the point that Shevchenko was Abramovich's desire, would he really have decided "You know what, i'm not going to buy Shevchenko after i've been chasing him for over 3 years because i really want to keep Gallas who's said he wants to leave". If it came to it i'm sure he would have gone over Mourinho's head, just like Kenyon did to get Cole. Do you think Berlusconi wouldn't sacrifice Kaladze to get his dream of Ronaldinho if there was no other choice?
It doesnt matter if we could or wanted to get Gallas. What matters is that Milan thinks that Cafu can play wdnesday-sunday tempo for whole season. And I have to ask, are they crazy?? We all know Bonera cant play attacking RB, actually that guy is such a classic CB. Good at tackling, can head well, cant create, isnt inteligent in play as Cafu.
Again you're making judgements on what has happened since the world cup
No, I'm making judgements based on what I've seen of his attitude for the past two seasons. A lot of posters here didn't want Milan to buy Ronaldo at any price because of his attitude. I would have been willing to give him an opportunity at the right price and I feel the same about Gallas. But if Milan couldn't deal for either player in a reasonable manner, I see no need to push it. There are always other options. William Gallas is a very talented player, but he's not going to make or break Milan's season.
Chelsea is not an easy club to deal with. Money means nothing to them and so they don't have to sell anyone just because the player wants to leave. They can simply buy someone else. Mourinho said at the time Gallas was linked to Milan that the player would not be sold. You have asserted that Milan could have used Shevchenko as leverage and maybe that's true. But that would have put Milan in the position of acting like Chelsea. Sheva wished to leave and join Chelsea, so the honorable thing for Milan to do was to grant his request. If you want Milan to go around acting like Chelsea, fine. I don't. And I don't think it would have been helpful to engage in a prolonged tug of war with Chelsea over Gallas, which would only have resulted in getting less value for Sheva.
And as for your assertion that Gallas would be willing to start out at fullback for Milan, I find that idea to be highly dubious. There are plenty of clubs out there where he could be assured of remaining in the middle. He could have played out the final year of his contract at Chelsea and then been free to have his pick of them.
Brasileiro
02-09-2006, 16:58
2 nice compilation of our future RB :star:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B45_QpPUL3c&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK-Iz39Xcfk&mode=related&search=
zlatanov
02-09-2006, 18:46
2 nice compilation of our future RB :star:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B45_QpPUL3c&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK-Iz39Xcfk&mode=related&search=
is this wishful thinking or have you heard something we here in Europe and US haven't? ;)
P.S. thanks for the nice links :)
Now Brasilerio this is a player I would kill to see at Milan, literally!!
If you do know something share it and i you dont then make something up :sagrin:
Seriously though is there something???
Brasileiro
02-09-2006, 22:12
Sorry guys,
It wasn´t my intention to seem that I had some new information...
As you asked, zlatanov...it was just a wishful thinking :depress:
K77SH C, I also would kill to see Daniel in Milan. This guy was formed in Bahia youths...my beloved team(2 times brazilian champions) and now in the third division :depress:
Man, this post is leaving me depressive :depress: I need a beer!!!!
Just for fun, I will tell something about the region(and 2 cities) that I and Daniel Alves are born...
I was born in Petrolina(state of Pernambuco) and Daniel in Juazeiro(state of Bahia). Our 2 cities are separate only for a river, and beyond boats, only a bridge of 800 meters makes the linking of the two cities. The cities are in the border of the two states.
We, born in Northeast region, more necessarily in Caatinga( something like hinterland or wasteland in english) are know as hot head people :angf: so you guys can understand Daniel temper...we are like a land full of Gattusos :ilol:
The funny thing is that Petrolinenses(born in Petrolina; like me) and Juazeirenses(born in Juazeiro; Daniel) do not join, simply we "hate" each other :)
You guys have no ideia of how many years of fights and brawls is made the rivalry between my city and Daniel Alves.
But before somebody understands me wrong, these cities are not a land without law, and today the fights are more rare...This off topic was just to show a curiosity about my(and Daniel) land...
Back to the topic: I saw today ia AS that Dunga will watch the next Sevilla game, and I´m sure that Daniel(as Luís Fabiano and Renato) are the reasons of Dunga to be in Sevilla...and this is a good thing, because if Daniel to play in Brazil NT, Berlusconi will give more love to the guy...
http://www.as.com/articulo/futbol/Dunga/estara/Anoeta/ver/Daniel/Alves/dasftb/20060903dasdaiftb_41/Tes/
Brasileiro, I really enjoyed hearing about your cities. I've alway wanted to visit Brazil, but so far the deepest I've made it into Latin America is Costa Rica. I am planning to visit a friend in Peru when she graduates from her university in 2008, so maybe I can work it out to visit Brazil at the same time. I hope so! A beautiful country with beautiful women that plays beautiful football! :1five:
I would love to see Alves in the Milan jersey someday. He's an amazing young talent and would be perfect for the Milan system. I know it won't be long until he makes his mark with the national team. It would be wonderful to see him become Cafu's replacement on both the international and club levels. :p017:
Oh well watching the clips you posted depressed me LOL. I mean so much quality and not just short cameos from loads of different matches. Very interesting stuff about where you are from. Sometime you will have to start a a thead about Brazil and its history.
hitmannq8
03-09-2006, 00:07
Is there anyway I can ask Berlusconi to sign Marcelo, Alves? Cant we do something like that petition that all the MIlan fans from around the world signed to keep that gold digger at Milan?
Hitmann, given how our board is going about doing things, I think the only way we can sign any great player is if the following occur:
1) He turns 34 and is available on a free transfer
2) He ruptures his cruciate ligaments and his value gets slashed by a half
3) He is a personal favourite of our president who will then be more than happy to spend a huge chunk of money on him while largely ignoring the rest of the squad
4) He is Brazilian and his name begins with an 'R'
So, there you go. Dont think Alves fits the description :)
hitmannq8
03-09-2006, 03:20
Our policy is getting old and it has brought success in the past, but we are trophyless for 2 seasons now. I know we reached close but I dont care, second place is the first loser. 2nd place is like 20th place. For a team like Milan its either 1st place or nothing, we arent a team that tries to get 2nd place. I really think they screwed up especially at this transfer window, I dont care even if our team wins the treble next year with Oliveira bagging 60 goals, they still did a miserable job this summer.
Look at Barca, they are a team that simply buys STARS and LEADERS of teams and look how great they play.. here's a list of the leaders they bought:
Ronaldinho (PSG)
Van Bommel (PSV)
Deco (Porto)
Larsson (Celtic)
Eto'o (Mallorca)
All those players were bought when they were LEADERS at their previous clubs. Barca never worried about them having bust-ups together or having a great wonderful romantic environment in the locker room. They just got them and look how great they play. They STILL buy great players even though there squad is full! They have unbelievable youth talents coming up (messi, dos santos).
Anyway, I still think we are not done with our market just yet. I think we might get Ze Roberto within a week. Maybe thats the surprise that's gonna THRILL the Milan fans that the board was talking about? I really really believe Ze Roberto can be 1000 times more useful to us than all of our summer buys. He can play every where in midfield and has all the characteristics needed. He is amazing.
Ironically, he is also a free agent, Brazilian, that has an R! So what do you think rt9? ;)
Arildonardo
03-09-2006, 03:57
Our policy is getting old and it has brought success in the past, but we are trophyless for 2 seasons now. I know we reached close but I dont care, second place is the first loser. 2nd place is like 20th place. For a team like Milan its either 1st place or nothing, we arent a team that tries to get 2nd place. I really think they screwed up especially at this transfer window, I dont care even if our team wins the treble next year with Oliveira bagging 60 goals, they still did a miserable job this summer.
Look at Barca, they are a team that simply buys STARS and LEADERS of teams and look how great they play.. here's a list of the leaders they bought:
Ronaldinho (PSG)
Van Bommel (PSV)
Deco (Porto)
Larsson (Celtic)
Eto'o (Mallorca)
All those players were bought when they were LEADERS at their previous clubs. Barca never worried about them having bust-ups together or having a great wonderful romantic environment in the locker room. They just got them and look how great they play. They STILL buy great players even though there squad is full! They have unbelievable youth talents coming up (messi, dos santos).
Anyway, I still think we are not done with our market just yet. I think we might get Ze Roberto within a week. Maybe thats the surprise that's gonna THRILL the Milan fans that the board was talking about? I really really believe Ze Roberto can be 1000 times more useful to us than all of our summer buys. He can play every where in midfield and has all the characteristics needed. He is amazing.
Ironically, he is also a free agent, Brazilian, that has an R! So what do you think rt9? ;)
Ze Roberto has moved to Santos in Brazil.
zZ[-_-]Zz
03-09-2006, 04:19
i don't think we can buy both Alves & Marcelo... i believe both are non-EU... just a guess...
How many non eu spots can a team have and how many do we currently have in the side? I'm sure it's been asked before but i'm just too lazy to look.
Dida & Kalac must be 2 spots that might become available.
Serginho i would have thought must have been in Italy now for over 5 years and we know Cafu has.
joumasepoes
03-09-2006, 07:54
How many non eu spots can a team have and how many do we currently have in the side? I'm sure it's been asked before but i'm just too lazy to look.
Dida & Kalac must be 2 spots that might become available.
Serginho i would have thought must have been in Italy now for over 5 years and we know Cafu has.
All our players, except Oleivera counts as EU players. Oliveira hasnt been in spain long enough to count as an eu player. he now has to live in italy for 6 years, the years in spain dount count since hes moved to another country, So milan may NOT purchase non EU players for the rest of the season, only next season can they acquire a non EU player.
Well, first: no, not all Milan-players count as EU-players. (But seeing as there's no restrictions in Italy regarding how many non-EU players a team can field* at once, it doesn't really matter.)
I think Milan might be able to bring another non-EU player in, if they sell some non-EU player out of the country (for example some primavera player? I'm sure they did something along those lines just a few years ago...).
*edit: or have in the squad.
zZ[-_-]Zz
03-09-2006, 16:55
i seriously doubt both Dida & Kalac are non-EU players... Milan wouldn't be crazy enough to have two GKs takin' up the non-EU slots...
anyway... i was thinkin' that Milan could recruit Lionel Scaloni as a new RB if the need really arises... he is now a free agent & therefore can sign even if the transfer window is closed... he doesn't exactly raise the bar of our squad... but i doubt he is a bad option considerin' he was part of the Argentina WC squad... not great but better than usin' Brocchi as an emergency RB especially now that our midfield is so thin...
There really isnt an excuse for Milan to have a foreign GK considering the quality of Italian keepers. Dida has had some terrible moments, but has mostly been amazing. His refusal to sign an extension to his contract is quite annoying seen as we have supported him through thick and thin. I will be very dissapointed if Amelia is not a Milan player in the next two seasons. Milan's backbone should be Italian ie Amelia, Nesta, Maldini (Bonera), Pirlo, Gatusso, Gila. Then we can go and sign Brazilians and Argies if need be for other positions. That way we wouldnt have to worry about these regulations too much.
Zz']i seriously doubt both Dida & Kalac are non-EU players... Milan wouldn't be crazy enough to have two GKs takin' up the non-EU slots...
You're not getting the point, are you?
This isn't Spain, there aren't any non-EU slots to be filled.
The non-EU thing only comes into play regarding signing players from abroad.
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