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Russo-Neri
12-01-2011, 10:39
worried that his team are too leaky at the back
Poor choice of words...
Filipéz 182
12-01-2011, 10:39
@ Brasileiro, what is ganso's best position, CM, or ACM?
Brasileiro
12-01-2011, 10:50
The reason Madrid want coentrao is because defensively Marcelo is average and gets caught upfield too much..I'd prefer coentrao bit Marcelo is an upgrade on nini
Sorry, Jay... But this Coentrão to Madrid rumor sounds more like Benfica trying to take more money from clubs interested. He´s a work in progress at LB, and nothing better than Marcelo at the back.
Plus, remember Mourinho words about Marcelo after our game against them at Bernabeu? Mourinho said he come o Real thinking about a new LB(A. Cole), but after some days in trainning sessions, he became "in love" with Marcelo. Also, at the preseason Mourinho also said didn´t wanted Coentrão because he was very similar to Marcelo.
I don´t believe, but would love if it´s true.
Brasileiro
12-01-2011, 10:58
@ Brasileiro, what is ganso's best position, CM, or ACM?
Nice question...
He plays as a ACM at Santos, but as the game goes on, he always drop back to be a deep playmaker. Not like Pirlo, but play more deep than a normal ACM. I little confuse, I know:)
What I like about this guy, is that with his new work rate, a pair with a guy like Kaká is possible(unlike Ronaldinho) without unbalance the team. Can´t wait to see kaka healthy and back to Brazil NT to play with Ganso:
-------------------Pato--------------------
-----Ganso--------kaká------------Neymar--
Thats what I see Mano Menezes doing in the near furture...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Just saw on TV right now, the rumor is that Ganso rant was orchestrated by his agents. I didn´t saw all the press conference, but I heard now he said Inter was valuing him more than Santos. Ouch...
Jay Crisp
12-01-2011, 11:59
Sorry, Jay... But this Coentrão to Madrid rumor sounds more like Benfica trying to take more money from clubs interested. He´s a work in progress at LB, and nothing better than Marcelo at the back.
Plus, remember Mourinho words about Marcelo after our game against them at Bernabeu? Mourinho said he come o Real thinking about a new LB(A. Cole), but after some days in trainning sessions, he became "in love" with Marcelo. Also, at the preseason Mourinho also said didn´t wanted Coentrão because he was very similar to Marcelo.
I don´t believe, but would love if it´s true.
Don't appologise Brasileiro , I hear ya but JM does rate him and they have tha same agent and he also had an understanding with Pepe and Carvalho...but I completely understand the price push rumours happens all the time..
Yesterday I saw for the first time(in Brazil) the rumor about Inter full court pressing on Ganso. What worries me is that just yesterday too, Ganso(at a press conference) really bashed Santos Mgt...first time I saw it and imo it was really strange. Man, I really don´t want to see Ganso at Inter...
I heard Carlo talking about players from all parts of the world. But I´m still waiting to see Allegri talking about the Brazilians we are linked. It´s not like he wasn´t talking about players in Serie A, too... Or he is clueless about SA football or there´s something strange in this silence.
One more time, I want Milan winning regardless of where the players come from. Maybe I´m being unfair, but it´s just that Allegri silence about players we are linked here(S. America) sounds strange for me... NM.
Well, except saying "we need a midfielder" (and saying the kind of qualities he should have), Allegri never really talked about any particular player since he arrived ...
I don't think he doesn't know the SA championships, at least I don't think he knows less than Carlo or others coaches in Italy. What I mean is that the club has scouts and the coach maybe trusts these scouts ? Actually, it should work this way because if the scouts are not trusted by the coach or the management, why are there scouts ?
To make it clear, it's maybe a bit early to ask to Allegri to talk about some players he would want. Let him do his first year here, the guy needs to establish himself as the coach of Milan, he probably has to deal with the egos of our players (so it's more difficult to say "this player is interesting ..."), he probably wants to avoid showing too much interest into players who could take the place of "young" (by young, I mean U30 who are slowly establishing themselves in our first team: Antonini, Flamini, Abate, Thiago Silva, Pato, ...) first team players, ...
It's just some ideas why the guy doesn't talk too much about potentially new players, about prospects and interesting players from other clubs ...
I wouldn't be too miffed at missing contreao or be mad about getting marcelo. defensively both are poor and abate is better in that respect.
I'd prefer to get someone like Zapata, then add mids with all round game like Jucilei & Sissokho of Toulouse. These 3 with a few youngsters being promoted and some of the elder players like seedorf, zambro, oddo, janku, roma, inzaghi being moved on would be a good summer.
Not sure Cassano should be classified as a trequartista, but it'll mostly depend on performances this season imo (I think once fit he'll start there). Robinho definitely shouldn't be called a ACM, as he really isn't suited to the role. He's a second forward and should only be used as such imo.
IMO, none of Seedorf, Boateng, Cassano and Robinho are trequasita. Seedorf is or was a complete midfielder so CM is the best position for him, Boateng's tactical sense, passing & shooting accuracy are lacked.
However, with the presence of fantasista like Ibra and support from the regista Pirlo, Milan could use one of the 4 as ACM, and this tactic is quite good.
So I think let Seedorf go, convert Boateng to a dynamic CM, let Cassano & Binho be the sub for both ACM and SS areas, and bring Ganso in start ACM is the right thing to do in summer.
For now, we are not really need Ganso.
XaviPirlo
12-01-2011, 18:45
But they need to respect the coach will, or it will be a recipe for disaster.
Berlusconi has ZERO relations in Brazil, Christian. ZERO. Galliani was the one constructing some bridges here, but Berlusca burn that one. Galliani now is a hero for Flamengo(and he openly said here that he is a Flamengo fan), but is "hated" by Gremio and Palmeiras:) I have faith Galliani will construct good relations here, no doubt. He was real nice with everyone here(I didn´t know he has a flat in Rio), but we now are even with everyone... Even more because of our "broke" label.
Regarding your second question, we clearly still have this reputation of being fair with Brazilians. But with the sell of Kaka it became clear that no Brazilian player will be a Bandiera(sp?) of the Club. For the right money, they´re expandable. Plus, these R. Madrid-like rumors about Pato a month ago opened some eyes, too. To be fair, Robinho relative success is a good thing for us Brazilian market wise, but we don´t have that edge anymore.
Yesterday I saw for the first time(in Brazil) the rumor about Inter full court pressing on Ganso. What worries me is that just yesterday too, Ganso(at a press conference) really bashed Santos Mgt...first time I saw it and imo it was really strange. Man, I really don´t want to see Ganso at Inter...
I heard Carlo talking about players from all parts of the world. But I´m still waiting to see Allegri talking about the Brazilians we are linked. It´s not like he wasn´t talking about players in Serie A, too... Or he is clueless about SA football or there´s something strange in this silence.
One more time, I want Milan winning regardless of where the players come from. Maybe I´m being unfair, but it´s just that Allegri silence about players we are linked here(S. America) sounds strange for me... NM.
Doesn't matter really if he has a good relationship with the clubs or not.. with small teams in brazil etc where alot of young talent is brought up in my opinion, money talks. When we sold milan Ibra he was sold for nothing in comparison to what we bought him for, he's doing well now im happy as long as he doesnt go to madrid.. and as far as south american football goes.. welllll i have to say argentinian talent< brazilian talent right now.
the likes of di maria,messi,higuain,aguero,tevez,lamela,pastore,mascherano,milito,palermo,lavezzi.. all great players to look into, not saying brazil doesnt have talents either with ganso and neymar and the likes..
hitmannq8
12-01-2011, 20:56
Doesn't matter really if he has a good relationship with the clubs or not.. with small teams in brazil etc where alot of young talent is brought up in my opinion, money talks. When we sold milan Ibra he was sold for nothing in comparison to what we bought him for, he's doing well now im happy as long as he doesnt go to madrid.. and as far as south american football goes.. welllll i have to say argentinian talent< brazilian talent right now.
the likes of di maria,messi,higuain,aguero,tevez,lamela,pastore,mascherano,milito,palermo,lavezzi.. all great players to look into, not saying brazil doesnt have talents either with ganso and neymar and the likes..
You mean argentinian talent > brazilian talent.... which I strongly disagree anyway...Argentinians are very over rated, always have been always will be.....thats my opinion. Not all obviously, but most.
We need to create a thread to monitor the contract situation of all of our older players, but before we create one we need to make sure of all of the details. This is important especially in January, because we have so many players with contracts expiring in the following summer, and if we dont renew it soon, it can mean in all likeliness that they are out next summer.
Here's what I know, please correct me if I am wrong and please add what I have forgotten:
2011 expiring contracts
Seedorf
Ambrosini
Inzaghi
Roma
Jankulovski
Pirlo
Amelia
Boateng
Nesta
2012 expiring contracts
Zambrotta
Oddo
Gattuso
I would renew the contract of all of the players in bold, and buy replacements for them in the mean time to either replace them immediately or once they are gone. Boateng and Amelia are both on here on loan that expires in the summer. Preziosi yesterday said Boateng will stay in Milan next summer. I would also consider renewing Inzaghi's contract depending on his last few games. I would like to spend our Non-EU spot on an Ambrosini replacement next summer (Jucilei)
Galliani said today: "If I talked to other players while I was at Brazil, I wouldn't tell you..and if I said I didn't I would be a liar." He also said something in the lines of, last summer we thought we would get no one but we ended up with Ibra and Robinho on the last days, so all I can say is that the market closes on January 31st. Galliani also said that he wouldn't describe Mister X because you would know him right away. He also said if a player were to come it will be in the summer, because we already used our Non-EU spot on Robinho.
Brasileiro
12-01-2011, 22:32
Doesn't matter really if he has a good relationship with the clubs or not.. with small teams in brazil etc where alot of young talent is brought up in my opinion, money talks. When we sold milan Ibra he was sold for nothing in comparison to what we bought him for, he's doing well now im happy as long as he doesnt go to madrid.. and as far as south american football goes.. welllll i have to say argentinian talent< brazilian talent right now.
You better do a research before talking about Brazilian clubs. Rarely a BIG talent come to Europe from a small club. We are not Argentine where the Clubs are in a mess money wise. Why do you think Pato chose us and not Chelsea??
Regarding argentine talent being better, Messi aside, you´re deadly wrong. But since you´re a Barca fan, I can understand your logic. I´m used to Barça fans speech...
the likes of di
maria,messi,higuain,aguero,tevez,lamela,pastore,mascherano,milito,palermo,lavezzi.. all great players to look into, not saying brazil doesnt have talents either with ganso and neymar and the likes..
So, you put a list of several good(some not so good) but overrated argentine players(Messi aside) to make your point? I will use hitmannq8(he´s not Brazilian) quote:
You mean argentinian talent > brazilian talent.... which I strongly disagree anyway...Argentinians are very over rated, always have been always will be.....thats my opinion. Not all obviously, but most.
Brasileiro
12-01-2011, 22:41
Well, except saying "we need a midfielder" (and saying the kind of qualities he should have), Allegri never really talked about any particular player since he arrived ...
I don't think he doesn't know the SA championships, at least I don't think he knows less than Carlo or others coaches in Italy. What I mean is that the club has scouts and the coach maybe trusts these scouts ? Actually, it should work this way because if the scouts are not trusted by the coach or the management, why are there scouts ? Maybe you´re right, but I´m almost sure someone posted quotes here in MM from Allegri talking about possible targets for Milan, and telling names... Strange.
Or maybe is just me scared of all the rumors I´m hearing here in Brazil right now:guw:
what ever the case.... south america will always be he talent pool of the world in regards to Fantasisti. I dont think its necessary to fight over who is "better"... we could be here all day. pointless.
long live Che'.
Elmago99
12-01-2011, 23:32
For all of us who have wondered who took the NON-EU spot, It's Robinho.....
Finally here's the proof from Galliani's lips:
http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=42752
Gabriel489
12-01-2011, 23:59
I would take Marcelo over Coentrao anyday.
As for the Ganso thing, well, if Inter/Leo indeeds sign him before Milan, then it is only Milan MGT to blame, since it won't be the first time Milan let slip a good player to another team after watching and scouting him for years. What scares me is the most is Hernanes and Lazio, as I have a strong feeling that if Lazio cannot qualify for CL, they might sell Hernanes to earn some quick cash, can you imagine Hernanes playing in INter with Sneijder and Ganso.
Milanster
13-01-2011, 04:53
Milan push for Criscito
http://www.football-italia.net/jan13c.html
Milan will make an effort to sign Italy international full-back Domenico Criscito in the January transfer window, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.
It's no secret that the League leaders plan to reinforce their squad in view of the second half of the season.
Speaking to Sky Italia last night Adriano Galliani said that two players could arrive before deadline day.
It's thought that one will be a midfielder with Andrea Lazzari and Mark Van Bommel being mooted as possible candidates.
La Gazzetta dello Sport understands Milan boss Massimiliano Allegri has added Criscito to the wishlist.
Allegri is keen to bolster Milan's defence in light of Sunday's 4-4 draw with Udinese.
Earlier this week Genoa President Enrico Preziosi said Criscito is 99 per cent staying in Genoa, partly because they have already sold a key component of their defence in Andrea Ranocchia and don't want to have to completely rebuild their backline in January.
However, Milan have a very good relationship with Genoa, as became apparent in the deal that took Kevin-Prince Boateng to San Siro.
Jay Crisp
13-01-2011, 05:02
Was just about to post that Milanster , a good option in my book better than what we have.I also like how Galliani says we may sign 2 players before the deadline day.These hopefully will be Criscito and Lazzari , but Im hoping for D.Luiz and Leo Messi...lol
abbeyleemaniac
13-01-2011, 05:06
MERCATO
Milan due idee: Criscito+ Lazzari
Milan Lab su Cassano
Perfetto in un mese
Sirugu potrebbe andaré al Milan per sostituire Abbiati
Oggi Lazzari andra da Cellino a chieddere di essere ceduto
Sources: All for La Gazzetta dello sport.
abbeyleemaniac
13-01-2011, 05:16
i hope we end up with Criscito, Lazzari and Mexes. All of them would increase quality. we would add more options in midfield with Lazzari, Mexes is good player, though sometimes he makes simple mistakes, yet he is much better than combined Bonera, Yepes and Papa. Bonera, who doesnt know how to defence. (you should first watch him vs Rooney than vs Di Natale and Denis) i think it will be enough for you to understand he doesnt know how to defending) What Bonera does can not be called as defending.
Regarding Gk, i would be happier if we end up with Handanovic or Diego Alves, and however Sirugu is a gk that i rate high, his contract expires in 2012, it would be nice to sign him for a low price...
Milanster
13-01-2011, 06:17
Was just about to post that Milanster , a good option in my book better than what we have.I also like how Galliani says we may sign 2 players before the deadline day.These hopefully will be Criscito and Lazzari , but Im hoping for D.Luiz and Leo Messi...lol
Yeah was rapt when I saw in Today's headlines in LaGazetta dello Sport & Corriere dello Sport "Another two signings for Milan - Criscito & lazzari. If we sign these two, it will give a huge boost for the rest of the season!!
Even better news.....
Galliani cools Van Bommel interest
http://www.football-italia.net/jan13d.html
Milan Vice-President Adriano Galliani has ruled out a move for Bayern Munich midfielder Mark Van Bommel.
The 33-year-old Holland international is out of contract in the summer and has consulted Italian agent Mino Raiola about finding an alternative destination.
Interviewed on Sky Italia, Galliani said: “He is an important player, but his age is such that we aren't thinking about it, no.
“The market is open until January 31. I believe that last August, three days before the end of the window, no one though that Ibrahimovic and Robinho would arrive, so we'll see what happens.”
Jay Crisp
13-01-2011, 12:13
Did some searching on ESPN , Sky Sports , RTE , Goal.com Gazzetta and Football-Italia.Here is the bullsh1t for today , Milan after Mexes but he would prefer an Extension rather than go to Milan.We are In talks with V Bommel according to him but it's early yet.We have inquired but made no offer for/ Criscito.Chelsea will offer £25 + Ferreira for D.Luiz and £18 million for V Der Wiel (I swear they read this forum and print stuff to piss us off) and we'll get Bosingwa for 2 mil.....alot of crap for one day isnt it.
Elmago99
13-01-2011, 12:37
Did some searching on ESPN , Sky Sports , RTE , Goal.com Gazzetta and Football-Italia.Here is the bullsh1t for today , Milan after Mexes but he would prefer an Extension rather than go to Milan.We are In talks with V Bommel according to him but it's early yet.We have inquired but made no offer for/ Criscito.Chelsea will offer £25 + Ferreira for D.Luiz and £18 million for V Der Wiel (I swear they read this forum and print stuff to piss us off) and we'll get Bosingwa for 2 mil.....alot of crap for one day isnt it.
Yes, if Chelsea are prepared to sell Bosingwa, which I think they are, they WILL get a new RB as they will not play Ivanovic/Ferreira there. It's interesting though that they want D. Luiz, as they have already Alex, Terry, and Ivanovic for the CB position.
Milan fans seem to really want Luiz, Coentrao, Ganso, and Jucilei. However, we must realize they are not highly rated for nothing, and there are teams with more money than us willing to buy. Abramovich has deep pockets, not to mention Man City, Real Madrid, and even Barca.
Jay Crisp
13-01-2011, 12:50
I just think it's all paper talk...but if we ended with Mexes , Bosingwa , Criscito , Lazzari and Cassano this mercato , I think it would great...however I think we'll get 1 defender and a mid , not another 4 players.And they way we look to deal it get players for cheap which honestly is fantastic , I think we'll maybe get Bosingwa and Lazzari.
Elmago99
13-01-2011, 13:20
I just think it's all paper talk...but if we ended with Mexes , Bosingwa , Criscito , Lazzari and Cassano this mercato , I think it would great...however I think we'll get 1 defender and a mid , not another 4 players.And they way we look to deal it get players for cheap which honestly is fantastic , I think we'll maybe get Bosingwa and Lazzari.
And how does that solve our LB problem?
Jay Crisp
13-01-2011, 13:29
And how does that solve our LB problem?
I dont work for Milan if you hadn't noticed.Don't address me like a smart ass.It's signings our mgt will go for good players for cheap , nothing wrong with it.Genoa wan't a decent sum for Criscito maybe 15 mil so if it it comes down to 15 mil or 2 mil , the money men will go for 2...and reckon Zambrotta and Antonini can handle it...OKAY!!!
And we are not interested in Bosingwa http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/01/13/2304058/milan-are-not-interested-in-chelsea-defender-jose-bosingwa
And how does that solve our LB problem?
first this is winter market, we will get about 2 more players max and at 2 mil, i think boswinga will be one.
plus i know leftback is a problem, but no reason to solve it with a cheap no good replacement now, then we will suffer at lb for a long while. i would prefer wait until summer mercato when better options are available, and then we may get a crisitico (who i prefer because he is italian, and i dont want milan to become like a inter or a real) or a coentrao, marcelo, even bale or whomever.
Elmago99
13-01-2011, 15:02
I dont work for Milan if you hadn't noticed.Don't address me like a smart ass.It's signings our mgt will go for good players for cheap , nothing wrong with it.Genoa wan't a decent sum for Criscito maybe 15 mil so if it it comes down to 15 mil or 2 mil , the money men will go for 2...and reckon Zambrotta and Antonini can handle it...OKAY!!!
And we are not interested in Bosingwa http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/01/13/2304058/milan-are-not-interested-in-chelsea-defender-jose-bosingwa
I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said, I didn't mean to mock you. I posed it as a question to the forum, not you. If we want to make Abate our RB, why would we buy someone else? Antonini, however, needs to be replaced. And frankly, I don't care if the replacement is cup-tied. Wouldn't you rather coentrao to play in serie a, and then champions league next year as opposed to antonini for both?!?!
Jay Crisp
13-01-2011, 15:17
I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said, I didn't mean to mock you. I posed it as a question to the forum, not you. If we want to make Abate our RB, why would we buy someone else? Antonini, however, needs to be replaced. And frankly, I don't care if the replacement is cup-tied. Wouldn't you rather coentrao to play in serie a, and then champions league next year as opposed to antonini for both?!?!
No problem bad day...lucky you werent infront of me :)....i also apologise :cheers:.Who knows what they will do , but Bosingwa would be better a LB than Antonini...lol
How Galliani said about how Milan's situation in the summer market regarding the signing of Ibra and Robinho at final days of the transfer window makes us (at least me) very excited! LOL
Galliani seems a bit different from previous year. He didn't promise anything like Mr. X or so (but still makes people wonder what Milan will do in transfer window) and he clearly said that the age of Van Bommel doesn't suit to Milan (or not what Milan want). He seems getting agree with 99,9% fans in this forum regarding avoiding transfer of old champions. :D
Gabriel489
13-01-2011, 23:23
When Galli denies Van Bommel like that, it might means Milan is after him.
When Galli denies Van Bommel like that, it might means Milan is after him.
:1old::1old:
Brasileiro
13-01-2011, 23:46
Milan push for Criscito
http://www.football-italia.net/jan13c.html
Milan will make an effort to sign Italy international full-back Domenico Criscito in the January transfer window, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.
It's no secret that the League leaders plan to reinforce their squad in view of the second half of the season.
Speaking to Sky Italia last night Adriano Galliani said that two players could arrive before deadline day.
It's thought that one will be a midfielder with Andrea Lazzari and Mark Van Bommel being mooted as possible candidates.
La Gazzetta dello Sport understands Milan boss Massimiliano Allegri has added Criscito to the wishlist.
Allegri is keen to bolster Milan's defence in light of Sunday's 4-4 draw with Udinese.
Earlier this week Genoa President Enrico Preziosi said Criscito is 99 per cent staying in Genoa, partly because they have already sold a key component of their defence in Andrea Ranocchia and don't want to have to completely rebuild their backline in January.
However, Milan have a very good relationship with Genoa, as became apparent in the deal that took Kevin-Prince Boateng to San Siro.
I´m starting to like Criscito more and more.
At first I wasn´t that impressed by him like most of the people, because for me he was more of a twenner(sp)... A CB in a FB body. But this season I already saw 4 very good games by him and it appears he improved a lot going forward.
I like Coentrão as a project, but ther´ no way he´s worth what Benfica ask. If I have to chose today, would be more confortable with Criscito than Coentrão.
Elmago99
13-01-2011, 23:56
I´m starting to like Criscito more and more.
At first I wasn´t that impressed by him like most of the people, because for me he was more of a twenner(sp)... A CB in a FB body. But this season I already saw 4 very good games by him and it appears he improved a lot going forward.
I like Coentrão as a project, but ther´ no way he´s worth what Benfica ask. If I have to chose today, would be more confortable with Criscito than Coentrão.
We've had this debate on the forum before, but do you think we can help Coentrao become one of the best LB's in the World? he's very good technically, going forward, crossing, and he can't defend any worse than Antonini and Bonera :cpuke:
Criscito probably already solid defensively, but not explosive in attack, If you remember the World Cup, I felt he played very conservatively...
Brasileiro
13-01-2011, 23:56
Yes, if Chelsea are prepared to sell Bosingwa, which I think they are, they WILL get a new RB as they will not play Ivanovic/Ferreira there. It's interesting though that they want D. Luiz, as they have already Alex, Terry, and Ivanovic for the CB position.
Milan fans seem to really want Luiz, Coentrao, Ganso, and Jucilei. However, we must realize they are not highly rated for nothing, and there are teams with more money than us willing to buy. Abramovich has deep pockets, not to mention Man City, Real Madrid, and even Barca.
Alex had a surgery(knee) and there´s a chance he only come back near of March. I read a Carlo interview where he said a new CB now would depend on Alex recovery time. It appears Alex will take more time to heal if this David rumor is true...
Plus, Ivanovic now plays better as a fullback than at CB(imo). The good thing about Jucilei and Ganso are on the restrictions to enter in EPL. Thats make things a little more easy for us, since EPL Clubs have a lot of money.
Brasileiro
14-01-2011, 00:15
We've had this debate on the forum before, but do you think we can help Coentrao become one of the best LB's in the World? he's very good technically, going forward, crossing, and he can't defend any worse than Antonini and Bonera :cpuke:
The best I don´t know, but we can improve him. My problem is... They want A LOT of money for a project! Don´t get me wrong, he´s very good going forward, but not to the point to be worth that amount of money.
It´s just my opinion and it has nothing to do with being Brazilian(no I need to repeat it here, now:) ), but Marcelo can really take over a game by the LB position, and thats rare. But I still didn´t see it in Coentrão. I think Bonera defends better as RB than CB but you´re right, they aren´t good...
Criscito probably already solid defensively, but not explosive in attack, If you remember the World Cup, I felt he played very conservatively...
Agree, and thats why I wasn´t that high on him before. But now I think it has to do more with coaches holding him back than talent to attack.
This season I saw some special things from Criscito in attack. Nothing like Marcelo, but I have a feeling he could be good in a big team like Milan if he could get some freedom...
ACMILAN1983
14-01-2011, 04:03
How Galliani said about how Milan's situation in the summer market regarding the signing of Ibra and Robinho at final days of the transfer window makes us (at least me) very excited! LOL
Galliani seems a bit different from previous year. He didn't promise anything like Mr. X or so (but still makes people wonder what Milan will do in transfer window) and he clearly said that the age of Van Bommel doesn't suit to Milan (or not what Milan want). He seems getting agree with 99,9% fans in this forum regarding avoiding transfer of old champions. :D
I've said it before, but I think it's partly to do with the manager. It was while Carlo was in charge we frequently brought older players, while as soon as Leo came in we targeted younger talent (Cissokho and Dzeko at the time).
Under Allegri, we seem to have a preference for younger players. This isn't to say it's all because of the manager, but certainly I think the coach has a fair amount of input.
Also, about Dzeko I read this article yesterday...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/05/edin-dzeko-transfer-manchester-city
I think it may explain about Dzeko's personality and why he might be so positive about all the clubs he's linked to and maybe also why he renewed (maybe naively) with Wolfsburg.
Brasiliero my friend! How are you? Things ok in there? :)
Also hello to all the people in here.... I was out for some time, but was following mercato as always ;) :nana:
BRasiliero - we cannot expect attacking things from Criscito as we can from MArcelo, it due to the raw talent Marcelo as a attacking player has. But maybe Criscito's football education, as a classic italian fullback can build a great defensive fullback from him, and that is what I personally want from Milan fullbacks. If Milan managment thinks we can make a serious player out of Criscito, they should go for it...
Bosingwa? For such a low cost its better to have him then Zambrotta, Oddo, Abate, Bonera on the right side. He is better then all of them.
Now Im waiting for the official news that Ganso is our new AM :)
abbeyleemaniac
14-01-2011, 09:07
i can see us signing Mexes, if he doesnt renew with Roma, considering Milan's CB status, playing time that Bonera and co got, i dont think that Mexes could hesitate for a move to Milan, also consideirng he will get higher wages, bigger club e.t.c.
And however, it seems very unlikely after i read the figures Cagliari and Genoa asked for Lazzari and Criscito, 10 m euros and 18 m euros, which are too high. On the other hand, Coentraro costs around 20 m euros, 2 m plus than Criscito. i'd rather to go for him in this case.
GDS was talking about a Mr. X today, i wonder who he is. im happy we didnt go for Van Bommel. That was Ancelotti style move. However this season we signed Yepes, he is not too young as well.
Wing backs that i rate, Fucile from Porto, Perreira from Porto, Perreira from Benfica, Lazio's RB, Andreas Beck, İsla, Udinese RB.
Today, after the reports that we're more and more interested by Mexes, an old friend of this forum has been linked with us ... Santacroce should leave Napoli.
The guy showed great things before being almost constantly injured and losing his starting spot ...
Santacroce would be a very cheap player regarding the few games he has played lately, and Mexes has his contract ending this summer, so he shouldn't be that expensive too.
So even if I'm against a Mexes arrival in Milan, I think we should try to get both Mexes and Santacroce, which would be a huge improvement over the likes of Bonera and the useless Sokratis and Onyewu (and they are surely better than Yepes who is a good backup for most of the Serie A games IMO).
Then, this summer, we could focus on only one player in our CB department depending on what decides Nesta ... if he leaves, we would have to buy a new WC CD, and if he stays one more year, we wouldn't need any new player for one season.
So IMO, with both Santacroce and Mexes, and with Nesta staying one last year, our whole attacking department and CB department would be ok and would need no new player, which would allow Galliani to focus on 2-3 great players for other areas ...
kastriot
14-01-2011, 09:45
Today, after the reports that we're more and more interested by Mexes, an old friend of this forum has been linked with us ... Santacroce should leave Napoli.
The guy showed great things before being almost constantly injured and losing his starting spot ...
Santacroce would be a very cheap player regarding the few games he has played lately, and Mexes has his contract ending this summer, so he shouldn't be that expensive too.
So even if I'm against a Mexes arrival in Milan, I think we should try to get both Mexes and Santacroce, which would be a huge improvement over the likes of Bonera and the useless Sokratis and Onyewu (and they are surely better than Yepes who is a good backup for most of the Serie A games IMO).
Then, this summer, we could focus on only one player in our CB department depending on what decides Nesta ... if he leaves, we would have to buy a new WC CD, and if he stays one more year, we wouldn't need any new player for one season.
So IMO, with both Santacroce and Mexes, and with Nesta staying one last year, our whole attacking department and CB department would be ok and would need no new player, which would allow Galliani to focus on 2-3 great players for other areas ...
Having both Santacroce and Mexes as back ups and Nesta and The Future Captain(he is just to good :devf:) as starters will make our defense great.
Gabriel489
14-01-2011, 10:28
On top of that Santacroce can play as RB
Hasan Rossonero
14-01-2011, 10:46
Galliani: "We're talking to Preziosi about Criscito." Gazzetta.
i had a look at just one site and got a bunch of new names for the mercato!!!
that's from TMW:
-Angelo Ogbonna (22 yr-old Italian CB from Torino)
-Sebastien Pocognoli (23 yr-old Belgian FB from Standard Liege)
-Kevin de Bruyne (19 yr-old Belgian CAM from Genk)
-Sissoko (the Juve Midfielder, he's 26)
All in addition to Bosingwa, Santacroce, Van Bommel :yuck:, and the apparently very probably Criscito.
Some interesting things to note:
-Apparently Santacrocce is 24, i thought he was younger,so he is as old as Criscito.
-We are linked to young players (19, 22, 23) which is always better than the old habit of 30+ cheap players (excluding Van Bommel ....:yuck::yuck: again)
-Sissoko!!! where did that come from??? Not sure what you guys think about that, but i remember he produced some brilliant displays in his 1st season with Juve but I haven't seen much of him or them this season & last...
If Filipez can give us some insights on the Belgian players, that would be helpful. And if someone is following Ogbonna, who's apparently having a very good season with Torino this year and being followed by a lot of clubs, that would also be gr8.
Edit:
One more name from Calciomercato: Piotr Trochowski, 26 yr-old Midfielder from Hamburg whose contract is expiring in June!
anybody else plz???
Edit again:
Napoli is offering Santacroce + 4Mio for Ogbonna (Calciomercato as well) :S:S:S
Kaka1899
14-01-2011, 13:05
Galliani: "We're talking to Preziosi about Criscito." Gazzetta.
apologies i cannot remember where i read it but it turns out Galliani and Preziosi are good friends, they met up in Brazil when Galliani was there helping out Dinho. so there could be some good truth in the Criscito rumours.
Jay Crisp
14-01-2011, 13:19
Thats Trochowski that played in the WC for Germany right...now he is a good player fast smart skillful tracks back well and he's 25/6 get on that like white on rice.
Hasan Rossonero
14-01-2011, 13:35
apologies i cannot remember where i read it but it turns out Galliani and Preziosi are good friends, they met up in Brazil when Galliani was there helping out Dinho. so there could be some good truth in the Criscito rumours.
Yeah they are on good terms for sure. I hope we get Criscito--our defence on the flanks is very shaky.
I remember when there was some enthusiasm for Antonini largely due to the fact that we did not have fast wingbacks. Antonini's inclusion changed that because he is lightning quick. However, he is also a limited footballer as has been discussed here.
Criscito, Mexes, and Lazarri + plus a solid CD in the summer would make us very competitive.
Elmago99
14-01-2011, 14:09
ANTONIO CASSANO OFFICIALLY UNVEILED at MILANELLO:
Antonio Cassano has been officially unveiled as a Milan player: "I want to thank Milan who have gambled on me in a time of great difficulty. I hope I can play as long as possible here, I'm sure this will be my last stop, there is nothing more than Milan. I have it all make no mistake about that, I am sure that I will not be wrong because I will not betray those who have believed in me. I am ready to do all I can and all I want to do is win." Adriano Galliani said: "In my head I thought, the only one who can stop us mourning about Ronaldinho is a talent such as Antonio Cassano."
(Antonio Cassano along with Adriano Galliani at the player's unveiling)
MILANELLO - Antonio Cassano was officially unveiled at a press conference at Milanello today where he was joined by club chief executive Adriano Galliani.
Galliani had this to say: Antonio''I thank you for waiting for me to return from Brazil. Antonio has been training now because he has lost time. For Milan and for me personally it is a matter of great satisfaction to present him, we were already very close in the summer of 2006, he was at Real, he played little in the first months, then Capello came to Madrid and he went on with his story. He is a player who our club has always liked, as Prime Minister Berlusconi said he is the best Italian talent in our football. As soon as we knew he was leaving Sampdoria, we moved quickly to complete the jig-saw in our attack. Few teams in the world can deploy, in addition to Inzaghi who is alive and well, Ibrahimovic, Pato, Robinho and Cassano. For my part, here's the warmest welcome to our club to Antonio Cassano. I'm happy, I'm not an actor, if I'm happy to see him, I am very happy that he is with us. I've seen the last two games on television, he has plated two halves so far, three assists are good but now he needs to look to score. Cassano has scored more than a hundred goals, with a good relationship between goals and games played. I would also thank the lawyer Bozzo who has played a key role in the passage of Cassano from Sampdoria to Milan.
"I am quite certain that nobody will say that Cassano is a mistake to sign, in 25 years I have learned to accept everything, today's the day of Cassano. We also think about Ronaldinho's departure. In my head I thought, the only one who can stop us from mourning about Ronaldinho ia a talent such as Antonio Cassano. He was also considered in the light of a possible departure of Ronaldinho. The arrival of Antonio did not influence the decisions that Ronaldinho would still leave. I would say that there is no link between the two. It's true that I have heard some of our senior players in the latter part of 2010 and they all have expressed a positive opinions. I find it right to hear the opinion of those who have been with us for many years, I like the players to decide to participate in the club. In 2010 there was total and absolute satisfaction in respect of Antonio Cassano.''
Antonio Cassano then had this to say: "It's easy to play alongside these players, they are at the top of their game. The first thing I must do is thank president Berlusconi if that is okay with Doctor Galliani who took a gamble on me in a moment of great difficulty and have stuck with me. Milan pulled me out of trouble, I hope with all my heart to do everything possible to make the doctor happy, the president and all the people on Sunday, in a few minutes, I have responded. From the kit-room to the President here's humility and willingness to do the best they can. During training even Ariedo Braida urged me on. I want to thank Milan completely. My last chance? I hope I can play as long as possible here, and I'm sure this will be my last stop, there is nothing more than Milan, Milan is the best for me. Above Milan there is only the sky. It is the last chance, do not betray people. Now I will become a father, it is a very big responsibility, I have everything to avoid mistakes, I am sure that I will not be wrong because I do not betray those who have believed me. Milan can give me so much, in every way, everrything at the tactical level. I can give Milan all I can and the quality to win, because I believe that Milan are stronger than all the others. Out and out striker, support striker, I give my all. I am a second striker, but ready to give my all for a single result, to win.
I thank Sampdoria and their fans. I was loved a lot there and I thank everybody involved with the club. Then there was a certain problem but now I am very happy. Believe me, now I am delighted. Garrone? I have thanked all those involved with Sampdoria because they have a special place in my heart, but now I am happy at Milan, I now think only about Milan and talk only about Milan. I would do everything I have done in my life again except for the Capello era, because he tried all he could to help me. I regret that period, but for the rest I would do everything again. I have made many mistakes and now either I change or I change. I want to win, to do the right thing. I don’t want to dwell on the past, now I am enjoying this moment and I am focused on doing well.
Why was it only Milan who came in for me? It’s not how it was, there were many teams interested in me, also other important clubs, but as soon as I found out Milan were showing an interest in me, I told my agent Beppe Bozzo to speak to the Rossoneri because Milan are the best. I never had any doubts. I told my agent, “Let’s go there.” And now I am happy to be here.
I have an excellent relationship with everybody here. Seeing as I am not a hard worker, I like seeing how people like Seedorf, Ibra, Gattuso and Nesta train as I think to myself, “Why shouldn’t I do the same?” It is such a positive example seeing how those players train. Gattuso told me two or three things and reminded me that I have all it takes to do well here because everything is perfect. If I mess up here, I should be locked up, although I know everything will work out well. Allegri says what is on his mind. There aren’t many coaches around who go straight to the point like him. Who deserves to play, plays, with no complaints from those left out. This aspect surprised me a lot. He is an excellent coach but what struck me most is his personality. Ibra? How he trains is incredible. If you follow him, you can’t go wrong. He’s a fantastic person, the opposite of how he seems. And on the pitch he wants to win, win, win. As far as the rules go, I have to follow them, that’s the way it should be. Ibra, Pirlo, Gattuso follow the rules, so I’ll do likewise. Tognaccini is convinced that in four weeks, a month, I can improve my fitness a lot. What are the three important things I’d like to achieve at Milan? Win the Champions League, the World Club Cup and Serie A, all of which I have never won. I dream about winning something new. The past is the past.
The national team? I am certain that if I do well here, I can win back my place in the Italy team. I have great respect for Prandelli. In my moment of difficulty, he always comforted me. I want to cut out a space for me here to get back in the Italy team and do well in the national team.”
Then Adriano Galliani had this to say in particular about the transfer market:
“Developments on the transfer front? The team is ultra competitive as it is, so much so we are Winter champions. However, if a chance to improve the squad comes along, we’ll see. We are not interested in buying average players, we want to bring in players who are the same high standard as the ones we’ve already got. It is difficult for this to happen in January alone. It is difficult to find a Cassano-type player for defence or midfield. Having snapped up Cassano already makes it a positive transfer window, then we’ll see how it goes – we have until January 31st after all. Leave Mexes be, he is a Roma player and as the other clubs don’t speak about our players, I have no intention to speak about a Roma player. Criscito? I don’t believe it will happen, I don’t think so, but who knows? Let’s say we are in talks with president Preziosi.”
And commented on Leonardo: "Leonardo and I spoke on the phone the day he signed for Inter and it was a private call then and that’s how it will remain. Was Leonardo interested in signing Ronaldinho for Inter? I have no idea and even if I did know I wouldn’t say a thing.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Summary:
* Cassano says he's lazy, but guys like Ibra make him train harder. He won't mess up this chance.
* Cassano says "Only the Sky is above Milan"
* Galliani said Ronaldinho leaving and Cassano coming are NOT linked. We are mourning over loss of Ronaldinho and so we had to buy Cassano to forget it.
* Galliani said it would be hard to find a "cassano-type" signing in the positions of "midfield and defense", as we're only trying to sign "GREAT PLAYERS", not average ones.
* Criscito will be difficult but he's going to try
* Mexes is a Roma player so we will not speak about other players
* Galliani spoke to Leonardo the day he signed with Inter, but what was said will not be shared
Kaka1899
14-01-2011, 14:09
Thats Trochowski that played in the WC for Germany right...now he is a good player fast smart skillful tracks back well and he's 25/6 get on that like white on rice.
yeah thats the guy
Jay Crisp
14-01-2011, 14:37
yeah thats the guy
He's a good player ..well the times ive seen him technically sound good passer tracks back , if he's out of contract and would be free go for it better than Ambro Seedorf Rino at this stage of their careers.
Brasileiro
14-01-2011, 15:39
Brasiliero my friend! How are you? Things ok in there? :)
Also hello to all the people in here.... I was out for some time, but was following mercato as always ;) :nana:
I´m very good, my friend. Very busy, so I´m more of a reader nowadays.
But i´m always here looking for the news...
BRasiliero - we cannot expect attacking things from Criscito as we can from MArcelo, it due to the raw talent Marcelo as a attacking player has. But maybe Criscito's football education, as a classic italian fullback can build a great defensive fullback from him, and that is what I personally want from Milan fullbacks. If Milan managment thinks we can make a serious player out of Criscito, they should go for it... I agree, and thats was my point. Last season I was disapointed after read here about Criscito and watch him playing... a small center-back playing fullback.
But this season he´s showing some nices moves going forward. I think with a more offensive oriented coach he can improve even more. Regarding the classic Italian FB, I hope Crscito can do more. Not everyone is a Maldini, and defensive FB will not be that good for our scheme.
Now Im waiting for the official news that Ganso is our new AM :) Me too, but the news from Brazil aren t that good.
Brasileiro
14-01-2011, 15:44
On top of that Santacroce can play as RBUntil now, that was the only position I saw Fabiano playing good.
I´m still waiting to see him performing as pure CB.
Galliani: "We're talking to Preziosi about Criscito." Gazzetta.
Yep, he was in Brazil trying to puchaze Zé Eduardo from Santos. Very good young player if you ask me. If he put it toghether, Zé Eduardo will be a steal for Genoa...
Elmago99
14-01-2011, 15:53
Today Milan linked with Lassana Diarra.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=milannews.it
Not good news for us as far as getting Jucilei. Also we're linked today with Santacroce.
Interesting how we're not linked with "selling" any players. I guess we'll just let all these idiots make it to end of their contracts, then release them.
What ever happened with Fulham's offer for Bonera? I guess after that Udinese performance, not even an MLS team will want him:wallbang:
ACMILAN1983
14-01-2011, 16:26
Santacroce's a risk if I'm honest. A couple of years ago I said that unless something seriously goes wrong this guy will be one of the world's top CBs. Unfortunately, since then injuries and lack of matches have decimated his career. Not only has he not developed, but I fear he may not be as good as he was. If the price is right, then I'd happily take a risk with him, but only on the cheap.
Criscito for me is a worthwhile purchase. He's a good player and has developed well in the last couple of years. If we get him, then I'm sure he could be developed into a top fullback for us, and for me it's no coincidence that he's a starter for Italy, despite there being many defenders around the same age all vying for a position.
I would be happy with Criscito and Santacroce as our purchases. Santacroce if he can get his career back on track is an amazing acquisition. Criscito will be a definite starter and if Nesta is injured he can be a high quality replacement if needed.
About our midfield, I'm afraid Van Bommel could really arrive despite Galliani denying it ... The guy and his agent (Raiola) said it was possible and the player said we are interested. I really don't want him here, no matter how he performs.
Another rumour that wasn't mentionned on the forum is we're linked with Sirigu !! Sirigu is one of the best young GK in Italy and he could become a great player in some years ... If this link is real, that probably means that Amelia won't be kept, but we won't take an old GK, we will take a player for the future, a guy who would slowly take the place of Abbiati in our first team. I'm 100% for this move !!
Samaldinho
14-01-2011, 17:35
Honestly, for me, while I rate Santacroce very highly, I'm not sure how much I'd rely on him, as far as a potential starter or not. Why? Well, first of all when he's played CB its usually been in a back 3 and his job at RB or RCB has both been impressive, but, I'm not sure how good of a pure RB he would be either.
However, the talent is there, I think it's true. I think he's worth a shot, especially as his value has dipped dramatically because of injuries and lack of playing time. However, I don't see this as a problem, just an opportunity for us to perhaps take a lower risk on a player and also provide him with a chance to enter into Milan with less pressure and more patience.
As far as Crisicito, I think the fact that he's playing been playing as LWB in a 3-4-3 is a big part of the problem in assessing how he would do for us. However, at the same time, he's also part of a team that has the best defense in Serie A, right now. Granted, it's also a low-scoring (13 goals, bottom is 12) team. However, I don't think he's nearly as over rated as Coentrao. I mean, honestly, the kid has promise, no doubt, but I'd be wary to spend 20 million on a FB. If Crisicito comes in at 15, that would make me question his price, but I think the risk involved with Crisicito is smaller because of his Serie A experience.
Mexes is the type of defender that makes his partner look a lot better and does the sort of aggressive work that would suit a pairing with Nesta very well, and would provide more time and I think a great foil to a defender like Thiago. He's physically strong and has the athleticism to match, I think if he came, I'd be very happy.
Finally, I just question the point of grabbing every player that we can call "Milan Material" or "World Class." I was looking at another Milan forum, and this was a constant theme (and it was one here for a little bit, as well). Mourinho, who I respect but dislike, I remember underlined the fact that an effective team is made up of parts that work together, rather than simple glamorous combination. For instance, you can easily put a million HP engine in a car, but it will be wasted because the wheels won't physically be able to handle that power.
The point is that for every CR7, Kaka, and Ronaldinho there is a Fletcher, Gattuso, and Makelele. These players are important, and I remember a certain Giuseppe Pancaro who did a great job for us on our left, and I don't think anyone would have called him Milan material.
I think there is undeniable talent in Jucelei, Honda, Coentrao, and other big names that we are linked with. The key is to grab the "star" names that we need, rather than simply grabbing all of them. Furthermore, it's also in Milan's character to take players a make them stars. Gattuso, Pirlo are but few of the examples, and I think Abate has the potential to follow in their footsteps.
Does crisicito improve a lot this season? his performance in the world cup is almost a disaster, zambrotta looked better at that time.18 milion for him, I'd rather spend 28 million for coentrao, or some wingers like drente or constant and convert them to play fullback.
abbeyleemaniac
15-01-2011, 01:22
La Gazetta dello sport of today says interesting things about Criscito, Mimmo looks closer to us, Lazzari's pressing to Cellino. i dont think that Milan can spend 18 m euros for Criscito n however its more logical, 5 m euros plus one player for his co-ownership. (No Maxwell because of Non Eu Status)
Tutti vogliono sapere di Criscito a della corte del Milan
Preziosi on Criscito >>Siamo praticamente sotto assedio da parte piu squadre. Noi pero abbiamo un problema. Antonelli é bloccato, lui é arrivato ance come possible sostituto di Criscito, non potremmo permeterci di ritrovarci con il solo Moretti in quel ruolo per mesi, insomma, molto difficilmente ci priveremo di Criscito>>>
Rossoneri Fuego
15-01-2011, 02:25
id be doing nani backflips if we get crescito & santcroce hes one of the future great center backs of italy ! ( italian's consider santacroce italian ) ive herd of rodrigro ely haven't seen him play tho , i know him by name tho tall black dude from gremio scolari's old squad , our back 4 would be set for the next 4 - 5 years no joke look for a example ( D.Crescito early 20's ) ---- ( T.Silva 27 ) ---- ( F. Santacroce Mid 20's ) --- ( I.Abate early 20's ) alott of speed and pressing i hope this is true this is like disneyland ! , we can press alott more & back track we would look like barcelona honestly , even set up this back 4 on fifa & we would would look a bunch of trackstars no lie ! , hope for the best people !
Milan are linking with:
- Criscito
- Santacroce
- Ogbonna of Torino
- Pocognoli of Standard Liège
They all can play left-back (maybe Santacroce can :D). 3 italians and 1 italian-origin.
ACMILAN1983
15-01-2011, 03:39
Does crisicito improve a lot this season? his performance in the world cup is almost a disaster, zambrotta looked better at that time.18 milion for him, I'd rather spend 28 million for coentrao, or some wingers like drente or constant and convert them to play fullback.
Italy at the world cup was a complete disaster and therefore individuals really shouldn't be judged in it. Criscito is a good player, solid defensively and decent going forward. He needs to be given the right opportunities though. At Juve, he had no space and was still young, so moved to Genoa, where he's really developing well and has come a long way in the past couple of years. He's also without a doubt better than Antonini.
A general question but does anyone have a source for the Santacroce rumours. I've heard he's apparently linked to us, but I've not seen it at all.
Forget about Pocognoli, please ..
Next to him Antonini looks like Serginho.
Filipéz 182
15-01-2011, 03:52
:wow:
A general question but does anyone have a source for the Santacroce rumours. I've heard he's apparently linked to us, but I've not seen it at all.
it was on milannews.it
I was very impressed a few years ago with santacroce, I would like to have him at Milan, he has a lot of talent. but then I ask myself, why doesnt he get any minutes at all these days?
Criscito would be a nice move, young, italian and a big improvent on antonini. Though someone like Coentrao wouldve been better, they could really take our team to a next level. I mean, fullbacks with such attacking skills can bring a team so much, a new cafu era :)
2,5 years ago, in summer mercato for 2009-2010, we discussed a lot about which CB Milan should sign among: Mexes, Agger, Santacroce, Zapater,...
Now we know none of them are world class. Santacroce reminds me of Di Silvestri, very high expectation but couldn't make it. Maybe there is still something in him, but he needs time and can we wait for him? If the transfer fee is less than 5M, we should give him a chance.
Gabriel489
15-01-2011, 05:36
I think injury played a big part in Santacroce development. Another factor is coaching, as Napoli did went through a few coaches with different formations over the past few years.
To me, I still rate Santacroce over Bonnucci and Racchionia.
Gabriel489
15-01-2011, 05:52
So Crisito is 18Mil, while David Luiz is 25-30Mil plus players(at least according to goal.com). Can Milan just spend that 25Mil plus Oddo, Janku and Mr. 4-time CL winner to Benfica for David Luiz.
That is a good deal for all parties.
slifersd
15-01-2011, 06:34
I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but you have got to be kidding me with all the Santacroce love. The kid has talent, there is no doubt about it, but this is a guy who couldn't suit up for Napoli in the last couple of years. Whether his problems were injury related or other issues, he simply is not on the same level as Bonucci and Ranocchia at this point in time. Now, of course he can turn his career around but given our situation in the backline, we really don't have the time to wait for him to develop. Hell, even Bonera is probably better than him now and we all know how much we love it when Bonera suits up in place of Silva or Nesta, don't we? So, as much as I am intrigued by Santacroce, no thanks. He is not what we need right now.
2,5 years ago, in summer mercato for 2009-2010, we discussed a lot about which CB Milan should sign among: Mexes, Agger, Santacroce, Zapater,...
Now we know none of them are world class. Santacroce reminds me of Di Silvestri, very high expectation but couldn't make it. Maybe there is still something in him, but he needs time and can we wait for him? If the transfer fee is less than 5M, we should give him a chance.
Well, except very few exceptions (the most talented ones), the Italian defenders generally need more time to develop, because coaches in Italy tend to prefer an experienced 35yo defender instead of a young 20yo defender, even if the 20yo is talented and just needs games. That's the way it works in Italy.
De Silvestri or Balzaretti, or even Criscito (who was a CB when he started), are some good examples of young talented players who needed to wait their time ... They aren't WC players (yet, they still can be), but they are for sure good players and these 3 names would improve our defence !!
Well, except very few exceptions (the most talented ones), the Italian defenders generally need more time to develop, because coaches in Italy tend to prefer an experienced 35yo defender instead of a young 20yo defender, even if the 20yo is talented and just needs games. That's the way it works in Italy.
De Silvestri or Balzaretti, or even Criscito (who was a CB when he started), are some good examples of young talented players who needed to wait their time ... They aren't WC players (yet, they still can be), but they are for sure good players and these 3 names would improve our defence !!
That's why we need a reserve team like in England or B team like in Germany and Spain. After Primavera young payers in Italy doesn't have later-stage competition for them except loaned out to smaller club. In their new clubs they mostly face though competition (will get only few chances) since they have almost no experience at all even they are talented.
I don't know when Italy will have such team to give young players coming from the youth more chances to get experience, something essential requirement to be chosen by the coach to play.
Gabriel489
15-01-2011, 07:44
I think having a reserve team comes down to the cost of running it. After all, Serie A teams ain't power house financially, and it will just be too much of a burden for them.
ACMILAN1983
15-01-2011, 08:05
2,5 years ago, in summer mercato for 2009-2010, we discussed a lot about which CB Milan should sign among: Mexes, Agger, Santacroce, Zapater,...
Now we know none of them are world class. Santacroce reminds me of Di Silvestri, very high expectation but couldn't make it. Maybe there is still something in him, but he needs time and can we wait for him? If the transfer fee is less than 5M, we should give him a chance.
Personally, I never thought Mexes was ever likely to be world class imo. He's good, but he never really stood out to me as someone great (I also think the same of Agger). Zapata is a talented player, but like Santacroce, injuries have really affected his growth. At 24, both could still look to make the next step and become great defenders, but at this point admittedly it's hard to see it happening. Santacroce for 5 million or less (seems to be the possible going rate) is a gamble worth taking, even if he turns out as nothing more than an alternative Bonera.
I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but you have got to be kidding me with all the Santacroce love. The kid has talent, there is no doubt about it, but this is a guy who couldn't suit up for Napoli in the last couple of years. Whether his problems were injury related or other issues, he simply is not on the same level as Bonucci and Ranocchia at this point in time. Now, of course he can turn his career around but given our situation in the backline, we really don't have the time to wait for him to develop. Hell, even Bonera is probably better than him now and we all know how much we love it when Bonera suits up in place of Silva or Nesta, don't we? So, as much as I am intrigued by Santacroce, no thanks. He is not what we need right now.
Bear in mind the two ex-Bari defenders only just made their name last season. Both are better than Santacroce right now, but Santacroce's potential cannot be ignored (something which was evident a couple of years ago). Bonera definitely isn't better right now though as he's simply awful.
I think having a reserve team comes down to the cost of running it. After all, Serie A teams ain't power house financially, and it will just be too much of a burden for them.
Come on, a championship of reserve teams is nothing more than the Primavera players who are too old to play with the Primavera and some senior players coming from injuries ...
Actually, there are two ways to do it:
- English way, a championship between the reserve teams of Premier League
- French way, a B senior team playing in a real championship (with restrictions: if the first team is in Serie A, the B team can't play in a professional championship for example, so even if the B team wins its championship, they will stay in their division)
IMO, the best way to do it is the French way because the reserve/B teams of the Ligue 1 teams play in a real competition against teams who try to become professional and some others trying not to be sent in a lower division ... that makes a huge difference because they play against motivated players and as a consequence, they have to play seriously.
The Ligue 1 teams use the reserve team to give experience to their young players and they put the players coming back from an injury there for one or two games as it's less dangerous (the level is lower, so less risk to get a new injury by playing at 100% too soon).
In France, it's done like that:
Ligue 1 -> Ligue 2 -> Nationale -> CFA (Amateur French Championship) -> CFA 2 ...
I don't think I'm wrong there, the L1, L2 and Nationale championships are professional, CFA is the best amateur division, teams fight to go in Nationale, and the reserve teams are in CFA.
So Gabriel, if the French teams can do it, the Italian teams can do it too ... and about money, for the Serie A/B teams, it's like having a new junior team.
Come on, a championship of reserve teams is nothing more than the Primavera players who are too old to play with the Primavera and some senior players coming from injuries ...
Actually, there are two ways to do it:
- English way, a championship between the reserve teams of Premier League
- French way, a B senior team playing in a real championship (with restrictions: if the first team is in Serie A, the B team can't play in a professional championship for example, so even if the B team wins its championship, they will stay in their division)
IMO, the best way to do it is the French way because the reserve/B teams of the Ligue 1 teams play in a real competition against teams who try to become professional and some others trying not to be sent in a lower division ... that makes a huge difference because they play against motivated players and as a consequence, they have to play seriously.
The Ligue 1 teams use the reserve team to give experience to their young players and they put the players coming back from an injury there for one or two games as it's less dangerous (the level is lower, so less risk to get a new injury by playing at 100% too soon).
In France, it's done like that:
Ligue 1 -> Ligue 2 -> Nationale -> CFA (Amateur French Championship) -> CFA 2 ...
I don't think I'm wrong there, the L1, L2 and Nationale championships are professional, CFA is the best amateur division, teams fight to go in Nationale, and the reserve teams are in CFA.
So Gabriel, if the French teams can do it, the Italian teams can do it too ... and about money, for the Serie A/B teams, it's like having a new junior team.
I just know that in France there is also such B team like in Germany and Spain. You said that if the first team is in Serie A, the B team can't play in a professional championship for example. Does Serie B type of league mean a not-professional championship? I meant, if Lyon B promotes to the league just below Ligue 1, can that B team promote? If I remember it correctly, in Spain a B team can play until league in Segunda Division (if the A team plays in La Liga). In Germany I heard that there is no chance a B team play in second division.
How about the age of the players? Any restriction for the B team in France (except the first team player who play only for 1-2 game after injury)?
I agree with you with reserve team. Reserve team should cost not so much money. It is so far below level of Serie A with respect of financial cost.
About which one is better, I also agree with you. B team will give the players real competition, not only from the game but also from the championship point of view as well (that they have to fight to get promoted or just to avoid relegation).
I just know that in France there is also such B team like in Germany and Spain. You said that if the first team is in Serie A, the B team can't play in a professional championship for example. Does Serie B type of league mean a not-professional championship? I meant, if Lyon B promotes to the league just below Ligue 1, can that B team promote? If I remember it correctly, in Spain a B team can play until league in Segunda Division (if the A team plays in La Liga). In Germany I heard that there is no chance a B team play in second division.
How about the age of the players? Any restriction for the B team in France (except the first team player who play only for 1-2 game after injury)?
I agree with you with reserve team. Reserve team should cost not so much money. It is so far below level of Serie A with respect of financial cost.
About which one is better, I also agree with you. B team will give the players real competition, not only from the game but also from the championship point of view as well (that they have to fight to get promoted or just to avoid relegation).
Ligue 1, Ligue 2 and Nationale are professional leagues in France. So the B teams of the Ligue 1 clubs can't play in one of these leagues, they are blocked in the best amateur division.
The best amateur division in France has something like 3 or 4 groups (to avoid a team from the North to have to play in the South and vice-versa, it would cost too much for the real amateur teams), and it often happens that a B team wins one of the groups. Logically, this team should play in Nationale the following year, but it doesn't happen, it's the first amateur team who can play in Nationale the following year.
Why not allowing these B teams to play in Nationale or Ligue 2 ? 2 simple reasons:
- clubs like Lyon and co have a lot of money, so they could easily build a second team having a good level enough to play in Level 2, and as a consequence, they would take one more place in the professional leagues, and what's the point of having Lyon, Marseille, Lille, Paris, Bordeaux in Ligue 1 and Lyon B, Marseille B, Lille B, Paris B and Bordeaux B in Ligue 2 (not allowed to go in Ligue 1 if they win the league) for example ? Ligue 2 would be less appealing as there would be less competition with teams not allowed to be promoted in Ligue 1 ...
- they are unallowed to be promoted in a professional league probably to avoid some costs to these clubs (once a club becomes professional, the players have to sign professional contracts, etc) ...
In Italy, Serie B is professional for sure, I think Serie C (if it still exists) is also professional ? Not sure, I don't know well the Italian system ...
About the age restriction, there is none, as these B teams are in a real championship, the rules are the same for all the teams of this championship, but for a Ligue 1 club, there is no point using 25+yo players as at this age, they are either good enough to play in first team or not, if they're not, they aren't kept. So the Ligue 1 clubs use their B team to give senior experience to their best young players. But if they wanted, they could make a second senior team, it would just be useless/pointless, but theorically, they could do it.
Back to the transfers: it is reported that Galliani and Preciozi will meet on Monday to discuss about Criscito ... Criscito has the same agent as Antonini. The problem with Criscito coming is that Antonini could ask to leave to Juventus who would want him. Anyway, he should stay at least until the end of this season.
Thank you Leo for the information. I disagree only in one part about the first reason. I understand your point but I still doubt that a rich team would build strong team with experienced players for their second or B team. Just like your reason in about age restriction. Pointless to build strong (consists of senior players) B team since it will cost a lot of money and what can the A team from it except spending much money?
In addition there could B restriction about age or about number of players over certain age (number of senior players who can play there) in Spanish League? Anyone knows about their system regarding B team? This year only Villareal and Barca have B team in Segunda Division. If I remember it correctly Barca B team was in very low league some years ago.
Elmago99
15-01-2011, 10:59
Back to the transfers: it is reported that Galliani and Preciozi will meet on Monday to discuss about Criscito ... Criscito has the same agent as Antonini. The problem with Criscito coming is that Antonini could ask to leave to Juventus who would want him. Anyway, he should stay at least until the end of this season.
Wow that could complicate things....
I think injury played a big part in Santacroce development. Another factor is coaching, as Napoli did went through a few coaches with different formations over the past few years.
To me, I still rate Santacroce over Bonnucci and Racchionia.
I share with you the two reasons. 21-24 is the last period for some physical improvements, he even lost it with injuries, and the form would affect his mental abilities badly.
I still hope we'll get him cheap and your assessment is true, but for now I can't help doubting him. 2,5 years of youth is a lot of important time.
Well, except very few exceptions (the most talented ones), the Italian defenders generally need more time to develop, because coaches in Italy tend to prefer an experienced 35yo defender instead of a young 20yo defender, even if the 20yo is talented and just needs games. That's the way it works in Italy.
De Silvestri or Balzaretti, or even Criscito (who was a CB when he started), are some good examples of young talented players who needed to wait their time ... They aren't WC players (yet, they still can be), but they are for sure good players and these 3 names would improve our defence !!
But they could get the chance in smaller clubs, on loan or co-owned.
I think Milan are very careful about the commitment for the team, so they'd rather use home-grow like Antonini or Abate than spend on Di Silvestri (from a rival and not professional) or Balzaretti (Palermo's president hates us :D). Criscito is OK, but he is expensive.
Of course super talent like Ibra, Binho & Cassano are always exceptional, but they are the attackers. Using bad mental players for defense is suicide, IMO :D
Personally, I never thought Mexes was ever likely to be world class imo. He's good, but he never really stood out to me as someone great (I also think the same of Agger). Zapata is a talented player, but like Santacroce, injuries have really affected his growth. At 24, both could still look to make the next step and become great defenders, but at this point admittedly it's hard to see it happening. Santacroce for 5 million or less (seems to be the possible going rate) is a gamble worth taking, even if he turns out as nothing more than an alternative Bonera.
Agree with every word :D
Two and a half years ago, the legendary Cap retired and Nesta was injured, so we lowered the requirements :D
But they could get the chance in smaller clubs, on loan or co-owned.
Many of them got no or few chances even the talented ones. I think, it is really hard for a young player without experience to compete with much older players (experienced players) even in smaller club in Serie B and C since experience is just so essential for many coaches.
Elmago99
15-01-2011, 11:16
Can anyone brief me on why Palermo President Zamparini hates us?
Gabriel489
15-01-2011, 11:28
Can anyone brief me on why Palermo President Zamparini hates us?
From what I gathered, he was being nice to B & G by offering his best players to us in more than one occasion, but B & G mocked him....and turned out those best players actually had their best seasons right after they left Palermo.
In short, Milan can forget about anyone from Palermo unless he is on a free transfer or pay double to triple.
Gabriel489
15-01-2011, 11:38
Come on, a championship of reserve teams is nothing more than the Primavera players who are too old to play with the Primavera and some senior players coming from injuries ...
Actually, there are two ways to do it:
- English way, a championship between the reserve teams of Premier League
- French way, a B senior team playing in a real championship (with restrictions: if the first team is in Serie A, the B team can't play in a professional championship for example, so even if the B team wins its championship, they will stay in their division)
IMO, the best way to do it is the French way because the reserve/B teams of the Ligue 1 teams play in a real competition against teams who try to become professional and some others trying not to be sent in a lower division ... that makes a huge difference because they play against motivated players and as a consequence, they have to play seriously.
The Ligue 1 teams use the reserve team to give experience to their young players and they put the players coming back from an injury there for one or two games as it's less dangerous (the level is lower, so less risk to get a new injury by playing at 100% too soon).
In France, it's done like that:
Ligue 1 -> Ligue 2 -> Nationale -> CFA (Amateur French Championship) -> CFA 2 ...
I don't think I'm wrong there, the L1, L2 and Nationale championships are professional, CFA is the best amateur division, teams fight to go in Nationale, and the reserve teams are in CFA.
So Gabriel, if the French teams can do it, the Italian teams can do it too ... and about money, for the Serie A/B teams, it's like having a new junior team.
Geo, for starter I am not saying having a reserve team is a bad thing, I think it must be done if clubs want to build their team instead of buy and buy and buy players every season.
Point I am trying to make is that, as much as we mock or jeer these Serie A teams owners in transfer....they are all pretty brilliant people with great minds working with them but yet fail to see the thing that we see. Thus, that really must be problems and I think financial is one of them, as clubs must add at least 15 more players to their payroll, with another set of coaches, assistants, trainers and admin staff.
Now I am not saying that Ligue clubs are richer than Serie A clubs but it is just extra money that the owners need to spend. Since a lot of clubs are struggling already, that extra 4-5mil is a lot.
What I think clubs should do is increase the age limit on their youth team to 24 or 25. B/c lets face it, if you are 24 or 25 and still cannot break into first team football at the top level with any clubs(including loans), it is safe to say the player is just not good enough to play. On top of that, these youth teams should allow to play in the Coppa and play all reserve teams in all leagues.
Galliani is meeting Preziosi tomorrow for Criscito so i'm guessing that is pretty much done.
Again, i have to say that the few times i saw Criscito play, he was pretty poor, but given all the positive comments i read here, i'm gonna trust my fellow MM members and hope for the best.
On a more negative note, it seems Tottenham is going for Frey....it would be so much better to play against Gomes :(
Geo, for starter I am not saying having a reserve team is a bad thing, I think it must be done if clubs want to build their team instead of buy and buy and buy players every season.
Point I am trying to make is that, as much as we mock or jeer these Serie A teams owners in transfer....they are all pretty brilliant people with great minds working with them but yet fail to see the thing that we see. Thus, that really must be problems and I think financial is one of them, as clubs must add at least 15 more players to their payroll, with another set of coaches, assistants, trainers and admin staff.
Now I am not saying that Ligue clubs are richer than Serie A clubs but it is just extra money that the owners need to spend. Since a lot of clubs are struggling already, that extra 4-5mil is a lot.
What I think clubs should do is increase the age limit on their youth team to 24 or 25. B/c lets face it, if you are 24 or 25 and still cannot break into first team football at the top level with any clubs(including loans), it is safe to say the player is just not good enough to play. On top of that, these youth teams should allow to play in the Coppa and play all reserve teams in all leagues.
The club actually would need one more coach, that's it ... Because when you see the roster of our Primavera for example, we could easily do a second team. In the worst cases, we could have to add 4-5 young players, but what do they earn ? Something like 50K a year for the best ones, so it really wouldn't be a problem for most of the Serie A clubs.
It seems the French formation is good (the German one is the best nowadays), it's maybe thanks to this system (so, after what said Siregar, that means France and Germany use the same kind of system with B teams and their young players being used in them: is it a coincidence ?) ...
You say that 4-5M would be needed to make this kind of team, I would tell you that this is in no way the kind of budget needed to build an amateur team !! Amateur clubs don't have that money, or they have it to run the whole club, not only their first team, I really think 1M (seriously, less would be needed) a year would be in the highest budgets to run an amateur team as a B team for the Serie A clubs ... and for the clubs who don't have this money or don't want to use that kind of budget, they just don't register a B team. You musn't have a B team, you are allowed to have a B team.
Oh, and anyway, I never understood why Serie A clubs don't have a B team as when I look at the club of my city for example here in France, it's a small club, the first team is in CFA 2 (second amateur division), this club has 4 adult teams ... why Serie A clubs can't have several teams at several levels ?
GeoTav, why did you say that the German system is the best nowadays? I don't know so much about their system and I don't know what the DFB did that make their youngster seems better than others today (many clubs use young players and how many young players called up and played for German national team especially in World Cup 2010). The German federation should have done something good with their youth system but until now I still have no idea what they have done.
Can anyone brief me on why Palermo President Zamparini hates us?
toni and amauri. galliani was cheap and hurtful.
Wow that could complicate things....
Eheh, worse, Antonini and Criscito share their agent with ... Abate !!
Originally posted by leBRn
Again, i have to say that the few times i saw Criscito play, he was pretty poor, but given all the positive comments i read here, i'm gonna trust my fellow MM members and hope for the best.
Agree,Criscito has such medioc physical attributes;in best case,he is becoming a new tassoti.if something goes wrong,he will end up as a bonera.zapata might be a more secure investment if we want a CB-oriented full back,and I don't think it demands 18 million to aquire him.
Elmago99
16-01-2011, 00:00
Agree,Criscito has such medioc physical attributes;in best case,he is becoming a new tassoti.if something goes wrong,he will end up as a bonera.zapata might be a more secure investment if we want a CB-oriented full back,and I don't think it demands 18 million to aquire him.
Zapata wasn't exactly Baresi against Milan. He got nutmegged i think twice (once for a goal), and I don't remember him doing anything outrageously well...
We'll see.. I think Criscito is certainly an upgrade to Antonini, but it will make things very complicated as Geo has said Abate, Antonini and Criscito share the same agent...and Criscito is not the World Class LB that we've been dreaming of... He's not going to fly up the line like Bale beating 2 guys and crossing like Cafu to Ibra..that's for sure...but he will be relatively solid defensively.
Can anyone brief me on why Palermo President Zamparini hates us?
when luca toni was in palermo he was offered to us by zampa,but Galliani was all cocky and said he would be embarrassed to present toni to the san siro faithfuls...i think its something like this..
GeoTav, why did you say that the German system is the best nowadays? I don't know so much about their system and I don't know what the DFB did that make their youngster seems better than others today (many clubs use young players and how many young players called up and played for German national team especially in World Cup 2010). The German federation should have done something good with their youth system but until now I still have no idea what they have done.
An article i could find...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html
shyt, inter is starting to look like the old inter again, milan needs to do something so we dont risk another udinese type game, cause i dont want to drop anymore points, and especially when we visit them and Leo later on in the season.
It's just the "new-boss" effect and maybe some of the momentum gathered after winning the CWC. I don't think it's going to last long. When they lose that 1st game, I believe they won't have the ability to bounce back. Same thing happened to us last year after the 2nd derby.
Filipéz 182
16-01-2011, 04:46
It's just the "new-boss" effect and maybe some of the momentum gathered after winning the CWC. I don't think it's going to last long. When they lose that 1st game, I believe they won't have the ability to bounce back. Same thing happened to us last year after the 2nd derby.
dont think so. Inter simply got a high quality squad, they got many worldclass players and its pathetic from benitez that he got such results with that squad.
Inter is our main scudetto contender, and we have to watch out, they are really back!
Gabriel489
16-01-2011, 04:51
RB and injury were the main factors for Inter bad form. They r just doing what they are suppose to be doing.
Gabriel489
16-01-2011, 04:57
A bit off topic, IMO players even cup tied should be able to play in CL or Europa with their new teams after any transfer window. For example, if Messi is sign by Milan today, he should be able to play for Milan in CL. Kind of like salary dump for NHL and NBA.
ACMILAN1983
16-01-2011, 05:46
There seems to be some uneasy feeling about Inter's improvement since Leonardo joined them in December, which is understandable. What he's done is essentially moved to a shape closer to Mourinho's last season which most of the players are more comfortable with.
However, I don't think the results are necessarily a true reflection of how good Inter actually are right now. Against Napoli they were dominated for stretches and hit on the counter, whilst against Catania they were again struggling and had to turn the match around. Against Bologna I've only seen the goals, but what cannot be ignored is how poor Bologna were defensively on every goal scored (the first of which was offside anyway). That said, reports suggest Inter again failed to actually control and dominate the match after they were leading 2-0 and were lucky Bologna didn't get back into the match.
What is also worth noting is Inter currently still seem weak at the back. Since Leo joined they've conceded in every match and look particularly vulnerable on corners.
So, the question is how good are Inter actually? There have been improvements under Leo from the calamity that was Benitez, even if at this point it seems more to do with morale and retrieving key players than actual tactical improvements. They've beaten a title contender, but didn't play a particularly convincing game, while they arguably "struggled" (failed to convince against) to beat 2 relegation battlers.
At this point, I'm still reserving my judgement on Inter to see what they do over a stretch of a month or two. It'll be interesting to see how they perform over the coming month or so as they will face some tough opposition (Palermo, Udinese, Juve and Roma).
An article i could find...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html
Great article, regin. Thanks for giving the link. That what I have searched for. I thought that they did it only some years ago (4-5 years ago) but they started around 10 years ago. Yeah, building youth sector needs a lot of patience. Really impressed with the whole thing hey have been doing and amazed how they change their football philosophy (from stamina and physical endurance to technical ability of the players).
No wonder so many young players play for Bundesliga clubs and new young players joining die Nationalmannschaft.
There seems to be some uneasy feeling about Inter's improvement since Leonardo joined them in December, which is understandable. What he's done is essentially moved to a shape closer to Mourinho's last season which most of the players are more comfortable with.
However, I don't think the results are necessarily a true reflection of how good Inter actually are right now. Against Napoli they were dominated for stretches and hit on the counter, whilst against Catania they were again struggling and had to turn the match around. Against Bologna I've only seen the goals, but what cannot be ignored is how poor Bologna were defensively on every goal scored (the first of which was offside anyway). That said, reports suggest Inter again failed to actually control and dominate the match after they were leading 2-0 and were lucky Bologna didn't get back into the match.
What is also worth noting is Inter currently still seem weak at the back. Since Leo joined they've conceded in every match and look particularly vulnerable on corners.
So, the question is how good are Inter actually? There have been improvements under Leo from the calamity that was Benitez, even if at this point it seems more to do with morale and retrieving key players than actual tactical improvements. They've beaten a title contender, but didn't play a particularly convincing game, while they arguably "struggled" (failed to convince against) to beat 2 relegation battlers.
At this point, I'm still reserving my judgement on Inter to see what they do over a stretch of a month or two. It'll be interesting to see how they perform over the coming month or so as they will face some tough opposition (Palermo, Udinese, Juve and Roma).
IMO, it is hard for Inter to keep a clean sheet without Cesar & Samuel: one can make unbelievable saves, one rarely makes mistake. Juve & Roma also have GK problems. For the first part of this season, Abbiatti was the best GK and Muslera was quite solid.
I didn't watch recent matches of Inter, so I wonder why they could play like this despite of lacking creative player. Has Leo learnt it from the lost 0-2 against "9 men Inter" last season? In that match, we played 4-3-3 without Pato, Nesta & Seedorf (very important because we have no ACM), Rino was outmuscled by Muntari and Borri was a child between Lucio & Samuel.
I don't know if Leo still has the habit of using only one formation & same line-up :respect: we won & lost thanks to this habit. Let's see :D
Our new midfielder will probably, sorry, surely be Lazzari ... Cellino said that the player requested him to be sold and added that now, Milan will have to show that they are really interested (that means "show your money" :D).
Criscito-Lazzari can be good players to improve the squad, not necessarely the first team, but the whole squad ...
A bit off topic, IMO players even cup tied should be able to play in CL or Europa with their new teams after any transfer window. For example, if Messi is sign by Milan today, he should be able to play for Milan in CL. Kind of like salary dump for NHL and NBA.
Why ?
Actually, this rule is good because without it, the Winter mercato would be as active as the Summer mercato, teams could change a lot of players if they want without caring about who is cup tied ...
What I mean is that a guy like Bale for example is the best player of Tottenham in CL this season, without this cup tied thing, Real Madrid and Inter would probably manage to get him right now, but with this rule, Tottenham is "protected" ("" because they can refuse offers, but if tomorrow Real Madrid comes with a 50M offer for Bale, I doubt Tottenham would refuse ... the fact is that Real Madrid won't come with such an offer for Bale for example because he is cup tied) from mercato attacks from richer CL rivals ...
Gabriel489
16-01-2011, 10:15
I see it the other way, as teams can reinforce themselves better for the challenge of CL. Take your Bale example, if Real is willing to spend 50mil on Bale and Spurs is willing to sell him now for that price. Lets that be, as Spurs would make a good profit and Real will get an inform player. Other teams can play that game too. On top of that, having Bale will make Real chances better but if they lose, all of us will be laughing at them even more. Take NHL and NBA for example, the big spender at the transfer deadline rarely win anything at the end. The teams that spent little and complete their team often wins.
Overall, I think it will just makes the teams more competitive.
when luca toni was in palermo he was offered to us by zampa,but Galliani was all cocky and said he would be embarrassed to present toni to the san siro faithfuls...i think its something like this..
Well, if that's the case i think the San Siro faithfuls would have lived with that. After all, we were presented to a certain Mr. Emerson once. And we survived...
:beer:
abbeyleemaniac
17-01-2011, 04:26
Milan didnt sign Toni and Torres, when we had the chance, because of 2 seasons,
1-Gila was italian(to Torres)(also was proven in Serie A)
2-Gila was young(to Toni)
Jay Crisp
17-01-2011, 06:19
We offered to take Garay on loan from Madrid but they don't want to let him go on loan...source goal.com.
Elmago99
17-01-2011, 08:15
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=milannews.it
Juventus are willing to exchange Marco Motta for Daniele Bonera and Massimiliano Allegri said NO because Daniele Bonera can play all positions in defense... LOL...yeah so can my grandma but that doesn't mean she'll do a good job....:1avs:
I really think this coach is used to Cagliari players, and doesn't realize we're MILAN
kastriot
17-01-2011, 08:38
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=milannews.it
Juventus are willing to exchange Marco Motta for Daniele Bonera and Massimiliano Allegri said NO because Daniele Bonera can play all positions in defense... LOL...yeah so can my grandma but that doesn't mean she'll do a good job....:1avs:
I really think this coach is used to Cagliari players, and doesn't realize we're MILAN
Motta is not Milan material either, its actually the same as Bonera, one season wonder...if Juve are willing to exchange him after 6 months that tells you smth, doesn`t it???
Abate is 23 years old, he has been very good lately...and there is much room left for improvements. Unles we don`t go after Alves,Maicon or Van der Wiel I say lets stick with the Blondie for now :D
Milanster
17-01-2011, 09:07
'Lazzari free to join Milan'
http://www.football-italia.net/jan17j.html
Cagliari President Massimo Cellino has given Milan the green light to sign Andrea Lazzari.
The 26-year-old is Max Allegri's No 1 choice to reinforce his midfield in Janury.
Lazzari worked with Allegri for two years in Sardinia and has a close bond with the Milan boss.
“There is a willingness to negotiate,” Cellino said.
“However in my opinion there won't be any particular problems seeing the relationship that I have with a true friend like Milan Vice-President Adriano Galliani.
“If Milan and Lazzari want [the move], then there is no problem. But we need an adequate compensation.”
Hopefully we sign him and he can kick Slowdorf out of the starting line-up!!
Elmago99
17-01-2011, 09:12
Motta is not Milan material either, its actually the same as Bonera, one season wonder...if Juve are willing to exchange him after 6 months that tells you smth, doesn`t it???
Abate is 23 years old, he has been very good lately...and there is much room left for improvements. Unles we don`t go after Alves,Maicon or Van der Wiel I say lets stick with the Blondie for now :D
I'm not saying Motta would start, Roma nor Juve want him. However, I'd trade Bonera for a bunch of training cones. Obviously I dont want Motta either, I'm just excited someone actually wants Bonera!:dcool:
Abate is our Right Back, hands down. It's time to get a LB though, as we can't go on with Bonera and Antonini. Furthermore, ACM is obviously a problem. These 2 issues can hopefully be resolved this transfer window, as I don't like this run of form, and the vulnerabilities in our squad are very obvious at the moment.
Jay Crisp
17-01-2011, 10:27
Lazzari and Criscito Im confident will come.
Arildonardo
17-01-2011, 10:33
Milan linked with Ajax' danish wonderkid Christian Eriksen. Turns 19 in February and was the youngest player to participate in last year's World Cup.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/462/netherlands/2011/01/17/2309756/milan-prepare-11-million-offer-for-ajax-wonderkid-christian
For those who know the dutch language:
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1441/Ajax/article/detail/563415/2011/01/16/AC-Milan-hengelt-naar-Eriksen.dhtml
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 11:26
Any Midfielder who can run the full match and can pass the ball is a better fit than Seedorf. Before we call him Slowdorf, now he should be known as Stopdorf, as he does not even move on the pitch.
'Lazzari free to join Milan'
http://www.football-italia.net/jan17j.html
Cagliari President Massimo Cellino has given Milan the green light to sign Andrea Lazzari.
The 26-year-old is Max Allegri's No 1 choice to reinforce his midfield in Janury.
Lazzari worked with Allegri for two years in Sardinia and has a close bond with the Milan boss.
“There is a willingness to negotiate,” Cellino said.
“However in my opinion there won't be any particular problems seeing the relationship that I have with a true friend like Milan Vice-President Adriano Galliani.
“If Milan and Lazzari want [the move], then there is no problem. But we need an adequate compensation.”
Hopefully we sign him and he can kick Slowdorf out of the starting line-up!!
LOL for the bold part. :D
I just hope Lazzari and Criscito will come to Milan this January.
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 12:00
Having Criscito is good, as he can also pay as DM as well as LB. Lazzarri is a typical depth player for Milan, but he could well turn out to be the final piece for Milan to win the league.
Having Criscito is good, as he can also pay as DM as well as LB. Lazzarri is a typical depth player for Milan, but he could well turn out to be the final piece for Milan to win the league.
Yes, I also think that Milan should value him as depth, not crucial player like Pirlo (as heir of Seedorf for example). Having him should benefit us due to his characteristics that our players might not have.
Ziegler's name has popped up again
I just don't hope that we get an average player who won't improve our fullback (left-side position) quality significantly enough even the player is free. It is better to have primavera player than such player since kind of player will only fill our bench as first or even second sub.
MilanMikey
17-01-2011, 20:58
atm were linked with ziegler and lazzari and criscito heavily - im hoping for criscito as a pose to ziegler but i also wouldnt mind ziegler tbh.. hes not too bad, i mean he has potential although 25, its stil a decent age to devolop i guess. he has a hard shot, good at fks i dont know too much about his game play as far as crossing and passing goes or even dribbling or speed soo for me i can't say much i just saw a few goals hes scored and he has a rocket shot.. lazzari would be good actually, id love to see him @ milan hes talented , and hes a good team player as well players like him are heavily under rated until they end up at clubs like milan and every little thing they do good gets his rep up, but @ the same time its hard to play under the pressure of being a milan player so who knows how that will end up.. what happend to our need for a striker, i guess they changed their minds after cassano? bcuz i mean if cassano replaced r80, even when we had r80 we were looking for a striker soo? im pretty sure when inzaghi gets back it will be the end of his career, i mean if he still manages to score goals thats just not normal tbh
Ziegler might be a good option for our left fullback ,the guy used to play midfield,is well equipped physical wise and skill wise for the position.
Since the success of abate,I'm so convinced that our defence tactical tradition can work magic on the process of transition for a former attack player to be a defensive one.
Plus, he won't cost much,maybe 7-8 million will do.
Gabriel489
17-01-2011, 23:02
Ziegler is cup tied for CL while Crisito is not. To me thats a huge difference.
Here Chinese media said that ziegler's contract expire this summer, we might get him for only 2.5 million now.
I seriously doubt criscito can bring immediate quality impact to our defence line the next half of the season.and scudetto champion should be our No1 objective this season.
Gabriel489
18-01-2011, 02:20
Criscito is a better defender than Ziegler. Honestly, I will be pretty piss if Milan can't get pass Spurs.
Arildonardo
18-01-2011, 05:12
And now... Michel Bastos:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/01/18/2311056/milan-scout-olympique-lyonnais-michel-bastos-during-victory-over-
And now... Michel Bastos:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/01/18/2311056/milan-scout-olympique-lyonnais-michel-bastos-during-victory-over-
Bastos as a LB ?
He's like Bale, he has exploded when he was used in his real position which is the left winger/midfielder one ...
Bastos in defence would be a downgrade over Antonini, but of course an upgrage for the attacking moves. Is it what we need ? I'd rather have a complete LB, one who can defend well and attack well when needed, not a 99% defensive LB nor an extra-attacking player ...
Nowadays, there is no place for Bastos in our team as we play in 4-3-1-2. Unless we want to waste a lot of money (he's in Lyon, not Lecce), our time (he'll end up on the bench in our current team because there is no way we'll change our formation for him) and his time (he won't improve a lot by being used in a wrong position whereas he could be an astonishing winger in a big club using wingers).
Milanster
18-01-2011, 07:55
Any Midfielder who can run the full match and can pass the ball is a better fit than Seedorf. Before we call him Slowdorf, now he should be known as Stopdorf, as he does not even move on the pitch.
Sorry Gab! my mistake....I'll call him Stopdorf from now on! lol
Brasileiro
18-01-2011, 11:48
Watching Brazil´s NT game last night(South America U-20 and Olympic Quali.) someone said on TV that 30 Europeans Clubs were represented at the VIP gallery... Some were scouts, but the guy said Milan and Chelsea(and others clubs) had directors there... anyone know who is the director representing Milan?
hitmannq8
18-01-2011, 12:14
Who were the players that shined the most in that game Brasiliero?
Milan & Genoa have agreed a free on Criscito according to Milannews.
I thought of last summer how we were linked with players like Fabiano, Huntelaar, Borriello and ended up with Ibrahimovic and Robinho, I was hoping for the same thing to happen this January but now we are getting the ever-so-mediocre Criscito, probably for a crazy free. I think Preziosi has been ripping Galliani apart in terms of negotiations. We got Sokratis for 6m plus co-ownership of Odu, Zigoni, and Strasser. We then had loaned Boateng from then, and then bought half contract by trading Beretta's 50%. When the time comes that we have to pay for all these contract we will really be screwed. He will be asking like 6 million for half of Strasser's contract alone, and he never even payed for his 50% nor will he ever meet Strasser. At first I thought all these 50% co-ownerships might have been a good idea, but I really can't see it turning out to be good for Milan in any way.
Anyway, Criscito is probably going to be sold to us for 12m euro, which is INSANELY ridiculous for the next overrated average Italian defender (adds to the list of Zaccardo, Barzagli, Bocchetti, Gambarini). We really should have gone for Coentrao, we needed a new Maicon in our fullback spots, the portugese player was just what we wanted, even if we needed to splash 20m on him, he would be worth it. I'm really disappointed we are going for Criscito, especially if the price is rumored to be at least 10m.
Gabriel489
18-01-2011, 12:19
I think Milan has actually been ripping off Genoa. I thought Papa is an co ownership deal. Prince was a straight out transfer for Milan but due to non eu, he is a Genoa player in name only.
hitmannq8
18-01-2011, 13:26
Papa was 6.1million + co-ownership of Odumadai, Zigoni, Strasser, we have his full ownership.
Prince (who is German) was bought by Genoa from Portsmouth by 6m, and he was loaned to us for 1.5million, and we have the right to buy him next summer, for an amount that would be negotiated then. After Milan liked what they saw with Prince, they traded 50% of Beretta for 50% of Prince.
Brasileiro
18-01-2011, 13:26
Who were the players that shined the most in that game Brasiliero?Brazil didn´t played that good, my friend. It was a Neymar show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoAzbKKt4Wc&feature=related
But the first game is always hard for young kids. But I ilked the 2 CB´s.
Anyway, Criscito is probably going to be sold to us for 12m euro, which is INSANELY ridiculous for the next overrated average Italian defender (adds to the list of Zaccardo, Barzagli, Bocchetti, Gambarini). We really should have gone for Coentrao, we needed a new Maicon in our fullback spots, the portugese player was just what we wanted, even if we needed to splash 20m on him, he would be worth it. I'm really disappointed we are going for Criscito, especially if the price is rumored to be at least 10m.
This leads me to my first days here in MM...
I picked up several "fights" here because I was all for Milan to buy Alex and there was that "italian squad", saying that Bonera, Ferrari(yep, Ferrari!!) were better options than Alex, because they were Italians CB´s. The next Italian great defenders!!Bonera and Ferrari:2whis:
I think 8/10 millions is fair to Criscito since he is Italian(EU issue). I´m not that sold on Coentrao at 20 millions. It´s a lot of money for a work in progress. Marcelo was bought for 3 million euros. Just saying...
Prince was born in Berlin, there is no Robinho type confusion for Prince.
I have posted before that I think co-ownership deals are pointless and useless, both on the pitch and even financially...I have seen nothing to change my mind.
Considering our need Criscito would be good but not great transfer.
abbeyleemaniac
18-01-2011, 14:16
Bonera was never good a world class defender and however Ferrari at Parma was impressive, after failing at inter, then Roma signed him then he failed at there as well...
Regarding Criscito, i didnt like what i read today in newspapers, especially in La Gazzetta dello sport, 5m euros+Merkel(co-ownership) for Criscito's co-ownership. Merkel is an interesting player, he has many plus, he has a bright future, just 18 years old, he can be a box to box player for our first 11 soon. He just need playing with regularity with a Serie A side. Unfortunately in Serie A he only can get great minutes only in co-ownership deals.
Cristian Eriksen is one of the players i would like to have at Milan, amazing young player, ideal player to replace Seedorf.
Lets not forget we won champions with Kaladze and Simic as wing backs, yet he gave up on scudetto in that year. we need width for Serie A, so i'd rather to have Coentraro.
And However Criscito is an upgrade over Antonini, solid defensively and good and dymanic FB in offense. he can further improve offensively.
it seems Braida watched Lyon's Lorient game live. Cissokho or Bastos.
Elmago99
18-01-2011, 14:24
From what I've seen here and also read elsewhere, Genoa is certainly making money off of all these deals. Sokratis could turn out to be a failure and end up somewhere else, and Genoa got 6.1 Million for him, plus other co-ownerships. Boateng I'm assuming is already paid off?.. and depending on how Strasser and Beretta perform in coming years, that could up our price we paid for Boateng....if my understanding is correct.
In regards to Criscito, he's better than Antonini, no doubt. He's a more natural defender, not a Midfielder turned LB (even though he has no Left Foot).....
However, most of us, me included, wanted Coentrao. He performed well at the World Cup under pressure, can attack, is technical, and showed pretty good defensive understanding, and can improve. When you have Antonini and Bonera occupying LB spot, you can't get worse at defending:cpuke:...I'm sure Coentrao could do better and A LOT better at attacking and crossing. For €8 Million more than Criscito, I think it would be worth it to call Rui Costa and :v103:....
I look at Flamini as Gattuso's replacement, Strasser as Ambrosini's, Merkel as Seedorf's, Boateng and Lazzari as offering something different from Pirlo.
However, we still lack ACM, and I hope there's more talk of it this transfer window and Seedorf in that spot is just not working....it's as if we're beating ourselves:swars:
abbeyleemaniac
18-01-2011, 14:45
Braida Bastos, Galliani Criscito and Ziegler. i wonder who the real target for Milan, and however why didnt we link with Coentraro?
Eriksen is what we need for midfield.
MilanMikey
18-01-2011, 15:23
neymar is ****ing amazing .. whichever club gets him is extremely extremely lucky thats world player of the year guarentee right there holy..
Michel Bastos? The Brazilian who doesn't play like one. who needs this guy? I agree with Geo, this dude can't be a better defensive option than Luca... Now Contreao, that's a man after my heart. He might not be much of a defender but I absolutely believe he can and will be an upgrade over Luca. 20 million is a lot of money maybe a swap deal with one of the youngsters or most of the dead-wood would reduce the fee.
I must be the only one, even if I don't like this co-ownership system, to think that if we can use some of our young players to get some more established players cheaply, it's a good thing ...
The fact is that none of our current young players (actually, as the current generation was an improvement over the previous one, I think the next generation of Primavera players will be more interesting as it seems we really start to work seriously with them) seems good enough to turn into a WC player. Yeah, Merkel and Strasser showed good and promising things, they showed talent, but I don't see any of them, given their current level, making it into our first team sooner or later. They could become good squad players, not regular first team players IMO.
And actually, I don't care giving half of their contracts (which means we still own them, and can take them back, we're more powerful than clubs like Genoa) if that means that we will try to get established, experienced and/or WC players in a soon future ...
About Coentrao, don't forget something: Real Madrid wants him, the coach of Madrid is Mourinho (who manages to create stars), he's a Portuguese, he's a god in his country, and what is the nationality of Coentrao ?
Just because of Mourinho, I think Real Madrid has 99% more chances than us to get Coentrao ...
Cissokho
How are his teeth looking these days?
:ilol:
No matter which one comes in (Zeigler, Criscito) it looks like our left back woes will be sorted by the end of the Transfer window. FINALLY.
Although i would be much happier with Zeigler, who looks the real deal and has fantastic technique, And if Juventus turned down Criscito, maybe he is just not good enough (Even though i think he is a very good and versatile player)?
Im surprised Taiwo's name hasn't been mentioned. weren't we after him at the start of the year?
No matter which one comes in (Zeigler, Criscito) it looks like our left back woes will be sorted by the end of the Transfer window. FINALLY.
Although i would be much happier with Zeigler, who looks the real deal and has fantastic technique, And if Juventus turned down Criscito, maybe he is just not good enough (Even though i think he is a very good and versatile player)?
Im surprised Taiwo's name hasn't been mentioned. weren't we after him at the start of the year?
I'm not surprised at all, and I thank our management for not thinking about this player !! :D
HO-YOUNG
18-01-2011, 21:38
Our fullbacks run hard and try to defend and give their all in every match whether it was good enough or not... i like that...
but when was the last time a milan fullback:
1. scored a goal?
2. kick a shot on target?
3. delivered 2 pinpoint crosses in the same half of a match?
4. cut inside and created something?
5. entertained?
6. could be the second name on the team sheet?
Elmago99
18-01-2011, 22:29
Our fullbacks run hard and try to defend and give their all in every match whether it was good enough or not... i like that...
but when was the last time a milan fullback:
1. scored a goal?
2. kick a shot on target?
3. delivered 2 pinpoint crosses in the same half of a match?
4. cut inside and created something?
5. entertained?
6. could be the second name on the team sheet?
1. Last one to score was CAFU
2. CAFU
3. Oddo 2 Assists....
4. Serginho
5. Maldini
6. ?
sorry to get off topic, but i couldn't help it:
Aston Villa bought Darren Bent for GBP 18Mio that could end being 24!!!! :haha:
More expensive than Ibra :D
by the way, does anybody else think that Genoa are more of a supermarket than a football team???
Every transfer market they have like 10 players coming in & 10 going out!!!
This is the January market and here is what they have done so far:
Acquisti: Antonelli (Parma), Paloschi (Parma), Jelenic (Koper), Hallenius (Hammarby), Tuncara Gomes (Belenenses), Kucka (Sparta Praga), Boselli (Wigan), Floro Flores (Udinese)
Cessioni: Ranocchia (Inter), Tomovic (Lecce), Modesto (Parma), Palladino (Parma), Toni (Juventus), Rudolf (Bari), Sculli (Lazio).
They r just in the business of trading players...don't think they care about the results.
sorry to get off topic, but i couldn't help it:
Aston Villa bought Darren Bent for GBP 18Mio that could end being 24!!!! :haha:
More expensive than Ibra :D
Yeah, Spurs bought him from Charlton for £16,5 in 2007 and now after about two decent seasons with Sunderland here come the Villans. Pretty much like Gila IMO, a good player for mediocre clubs but lacks something to excel in big one.
by the way, does anybody else think that Genoa are more of a supermarket than a football team???
Every transfer market they have like 10 players coming in & 10 going out!!!
This is the January market and here is what they have done so far:
Acquisti: Antonelli (Parma), Paloschi (Parma), Jelenic (Koper), Hallenius (Hammarby), Tuncara Gomes (Belenenses), Kucka (Sparta Praga), Boselli (Wigan), Floro Flores (Udinese)
Cessioni: Ranocchia (Inter), Tomovic (Lecce), Modesto (Parma), Palladino (Parma), Toni (Juventus), Rudolf (Bari), Sculli (Lazio).
They r just in the business of trading players...don't think they care about the results.
To some extent they remind me of Udinese who often unearth talents from the farthest parts of the world, bringing in players that even those at tribalfootball don't even have imagination to write rumours about. Once in a while, they do found a gem. The most recent one that comes to mind is Alexis Sanchez. And I'm sure they'll sell him to the highest bidder by the end of this season. That said, I think it's their right to do so. :respect:
Considering our tight budget recent years(for backline, TS' 1000 million is the biggest investment),I think David ruiz should be No 1 priority this summer,he can play fullback in emergency or big games.
Coentrao is a dream sign! but real madrid is there to compete.our chance is slim like antonini's built.by the way,he and David Ruiz will cost us 40-50 million,we might have to sale pato to get the fund.
I'm OK with abate as our right fullback, we need another one with similiar level as left fullback,and antonini is capable of play both subs.duplicating a left 'abate' might be a reasonable and economical solution(how about ziegler and constant as blueprints).
The reason I'm not buying into criscito is due to his small built, lack of great speed and skill versatility;Is his agility,positioning sense and tactical quality good enough to compensate these flaws remains to be proven. (I just saw his few games on world cup,I don't know if he improves a lot recently.)
abbeyleemaniac
19-01-2011, 06:18
David Luiz wont cost that much, appr. 25-30 m euros(at most) 40-50 m euros for a defender is a dream.
Ziegler is a player that i like, it seems Samp is asking for 3.5 m euros while we offered 2.5 m euros, so 1 m euros difference is nothing. Criscito is young and nice lad and however he costs so much and however Genoa doesnt want to sell him for now. Ziegler is right player for us for now.
Filipéz 182
19-01-2011, 06:21
Ziegler is not good enough! We should take someone who improves our first 11.
Criscito isnt a dream signing but he is better than antonini. I'm still hoping for Coentrao, he would take our team a level up!
It would be difficult to believe that Milan would spend so much money for a fullback. His price at least 15 mil euros and I don't see Milan spend so amount of money for a fullback. For a CB I still can believe it (seeing how we were used to have great world class CB) if the CB is for the heir of Nesta (our main CB beside Silva). I can't remember we spend much money for LB. We (almost) did it (Cissoko) for about 13 mil euros but we know what happened with him.
I can see we sign Criscito this winter transfer (or at least summer) and evaluate the condition of Nesta whom I think will prolong his job as football player in Milan.
Filipéz 182
19-01-2011, 06:54
We need a fullback bigtime, so I can see us spending 15m.
I must be the only one, even if I don't like this co-ownership system, to think that if we can use some of our young players to get some more established players cheaply, it's a good thing ...
The fact is that none of our current young players (actually, as the current generation was an improvement over the previous one, I think the next generation of Primavera players will be more interesting as it seems we really start to work seriously with them) seems good enough to turn into a WC player. Yeah, Merkel and Strasser showed good and promising things, they showed talent, but I don't see any of them, given their current level, making it into our first team sooner or later. They could become good squad players, not regular first team players IMO.
And actually, I don't care giving half of their contracts (which means we still own them, and can take them back, we're more powerful than clubs like Genoa) if that means that we will try to get established, experienced and/or WC players in a soon future ...
I agree with you Geo. We the fans give too much focus on how the player is right now (his current talent) and that he would turn to be a very much better player but we fail to include the information about his transfer fee to Milan (the difference we paid to get the player and receive to sell half of contract of the player) and the possibility that they could also turn to be a mediocre players in the future. In addition, other important thing is that what we get (selling the other half) is a REAL money, exact money or whatever it is called, fresh money (in the hand) that can be used NOW, not possible money (even much more than now) that we could receive in the future (if the young players turn to be great) or money (in more amount) that we have to spend in the future to buy the other half of contract. Young players could be like investment, both have huge risk (IMO developing young players with what Milan do now is a more risky than general investment since Milan won't use many of them, not like in Palermo, Lazio or Napoli where the young players are used regularly). Nowadays we also don't have much money like before so we should utilize what we have and the option of getting money.
If we HAVE to sell half of contract of young players to get a more experienced and better quality (in current time), I don't mind. It is better to get someone who is ready to play as fullback better than Anto (I don't say Criscito is, I only give a condition) but loosing half of contract other future prospect , rather still keeping the full ownership of the prospect players without improving the quality of our current team and only thinking about future profit that we COULD get from these young players.
Important thing is like Geo said, we still can get the player if the player turns to be great. The problem to get good-great players is the price (player like Pastore, Hamsik, etc) but still having 50% of the contract makes us still having the Ace card to get the players since we are much better financially compared to Genoa or other small clubs.
Kaka1899
19-01-2011, 07:42
strange how we tried to get Fabiano and Sevilla wanted a fair sum of money for him and now Juve have managed to get him ina January window.
Gabriel489
19-01-2011, 09:49
The thing about this 50% co-ownership deal....is the fact unless they pull a Borreillo-18 or 19 goals in a season, it will not be much for Milan to buy them back.
Take Strasser or Merkel for example, they might be showing signs of greatness....but unless they take over Milan midfield, they still will worth as much or a just abit more than when Milan sold half of their rights.
ZvonimirVukic
19-01-2011, 10:37
1. Last one to score was CAFU
2. CAFU
3. Oddo 2 Assists....
4. Serginho
5. Maldini
6. ?
Last one to score was antonini as i recall
Ziegler is not good enough! We should take someone who improves our first 11.
Criscito isnt a dream signing but he is better than antonini. I'm still hoping for Coentrao, he would take our team a level up!
Yep. I think he is fantastic. He would be an upgrade for sure.
Jon Dahl Tomasson is available on free transfer by the way. A better option to bring him back to replace Inzaghi & spend money on defenders such as David Luiz. Wow, some times I even surprise myself. Not only I am the best pundit out here, but also can be best the best 'Transfer Guru' :cool:
Jon Dahl Tomasson is available on free transfer by the way. A better option to bring him back to replace Inzaghi & spend money on defenders such as David Luiz. Wow, some times I even surprise myself. Not only I am the best pundit out here, but also can be best the best 'Transfer Guru' :cool:
JDT? Tell me you are kidding, man. I mean Lo Scorpione Bianco? Again?:grinser:
Jay Crisp
19-01-2011, 11:42
I think Tommason should never of left , very good quality backup striker always weighed i with his fair share oh goals..got some important ones also.
Arildonardo
19-01-2011, 12:46
I think Tommason should never of left , very good quality backup striker always weighed i with his fair share oh goals..got some important ones also.
Ok, I can agree he WAS ok. Now though? No! :p231:
Also hearing rumours about Trezeguet again. Surely and hopefully that's a lot of BS...
Arildonardo
19-01-2011, 12:50
We were supposedly interested in him before. Would be a solid (although expensive) alternative on both center back and right back position:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/11/transfer-zone/2011/01/19/2312915/sergio-ramos-could-be-set-for-real-madrid-exit-after-bust-up
The thing about this 50% co-ownership deal....is the fact unless they pull a Borreillo-18 or 19 goals in a season, it will not be much for Milan to buy them back.
Take Strasser or Merkel for example, they might be showing signs of greatness....but unless they take over Milan midfield, they still will worth as much or a just abit more than when Milan sold half of their rights.
Strasser is better than rino or ambro at the same age. he just needs the faith to play.
Merkel is still a bit raw. Maybe in another year he'll be more ready.
We were supposedly interested in him before. Would be a solid (although expensive) alternative on both center back and right back position:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/11/transfer-zone/2011/01/19/2312915/sergio-ramos-could-be-set-for-real-madrid-exit-after-bust-up
Expensive piece of filth. Over-rated ans card machine. Would get more if he wasn't playing for the most corrupt team in the world.
Expensive piece of filth. Over-rated ans card machine. Would get more if he wasn't playing for the most corrupt team in the world.
Tony, usually i agree with what you say but i believe in this case you are maybe a bit harsh on Ramos,\. Yes, he's got a card problem and sometimes an attitude problem and i don't believe he is one of the top players of the world right now but he's more than decent for sure. He's versatile as a defender, he is not afraid to play hard and helps a great deal on the attack. Wouldn't really mind him playing for us.
Elmago99
19-01-2011, 14:03
Expensive piece of filth. Over-rated ans card machine. Would get more if he wasn't playing for the most corrupt team in the world.
Didn't our own Paolo Maldini say that Sergio Ramos will be the next FB "Legend"??... he rated him very highly and wanted Milan to buy him....
Sergio Ramos is a good defender, probably better as a Right Back then Center Back, but very good, try to name defenders better than him and you will see the list is short.
Didn't our own Paolo Maldini say that Sergio Ramos will be the next FB "Legend"??... he rated him very highly and wanted Milan to buy him....
Sergio Ramos is a good defender, probably better as a Right Back then Center Back, but very good, try to name defenders better than him and you will see the list is short.
If Paolo told you to put your hand in a fire...
I can judge the players well enough, and ramos is a dirty player, with no respect for opponents, like his club and manager.
Bar about 5/6 players there are no genuine WC players in the modern game. Maybe Ramos is a good player, but that just shows how far the standards have dropped.
Elmago99
19-01-2011, 14:47
If Paolo told you to put your hand in a fire...
I can judge the players well enough, and ramos is a dirty player, with no respect for opponents, like his club and manager.
Bar about 5/6 players there are no genuine WC players in the modern game. Maybe Ramos is a good player, but that just shows how far the standards have dropped.
No respect for opponents, club, and manager....????
Sounds like Cassano to me, cursing out the owner of the club..also Robinho at Man City...Ronaldinho at Barcelona when he partied too much, Balotelli (another Milan target) does all sorts of disrespectful things.
As far as your 2nd comment, I agree, it's hard to find World Class defensive players, perhaps the standard has dropped. Guys like Nesta and Puyol are getting older, Carragher, Terry as well. As far as Italian defenders goes, there are few and far between. Literally the best right now are Nesta and Chiellini. Nesta has a year or so left, and Chiellini will be a life long Juventus player. Bonucci and Rannocchia are average, and Santacroce doesn't even play. Gamberini, Barzagli are below average, and the rest look like Bonera:kap:
It's mind boggling that we're looking for an All-Brazilian Center Back pairing of our future. Look at Real Madrid, in my opinion their Carvalho-Pepe pairing are very average, and not world class in my opinion....so on this account, Tony, I agree with you. So then what's your solution for how our Back Line should look for the next decade?
Jay Crisp
19-01-2011, 14:50
Ok, I can agree he WAS ok. Now though? No! :p231:
Also hearing rumours about Trezeguet again. Surely and hopefully that's a lot of BS...
Roger that...Over
Arildonardo
19-01-2011, 14:55
If Paolo told you to put your hand in a fire...
I can judge the players well enough, and ramos is a dirty player, with no respect for opponents, like his club and manager.
Bar about 5/6 players there are no genuine WC players in the modern game. Maybe Ramos is a good player, but that just shows how far the standards have dropped.
Everything was so much better in the good old days... :tong:
So if the general standard of players have dropped, then maybe he's more than good enough anyway? We'll probably never have a new Maldini, Baresi or Nesta, live with it. If we can keep Ibrahimovic and Cassano quiet, then surely we could with Ramos?
People have different opinions on different players. Some people actually remember Zidane as a great football player, rather than a card machine. He got at least 12 red cards during his career. Some of them pretty nasty as well... Not comparing Zidane and Ramos though.
Arildonardo
19-01-2011, 14:56
Roger that...Over
And out...
sorry no thread for the next game so will post here:
Cesena were 2-0 down after 16 mins and have equalized in around 13 mins!!!
interesting team....can they get sg off inter tonight :)
sorry no thread for the next game so will post here:
Cesena were 2-0 down after 16 mins and have equalized in around 13 mins!!!
interesting team....can they get sg off inter tonight :)
There is a coppa match tomorrow :ilol:
No respect for opponents, club, and manager....????
Sounds like Cassano to me, cursing out the owner of the club..also Robinho at Man City...Ronaldinho at Barcelona when he partied too much, Balotelli (another Milan target) does all sorts of disrespectful things.
As far as your 2nd comment, I agree, it's hard to find World Class defensive players, perhaps the standard has dropped. Guys like Nesta and Puyol are getting older, Carragher, Terry as well. As far as Italian defenders goes, there are few and far between. Literally the best right now are Nesta and Chiellini. Nesta has a year or so left, and Chiellini will be a life long Juventus player. Bonucci and Rannocchia are average, and Santacroce doesn't even play. Gamberini, Barzagli are below average, and the rest look like Bonera:kap:
It's mind boggling that we're looking for an All-Brazilian Center Back pairing of our future. Look at Real Madrid, in my opinion their Carvalho-Pepe pairing are very average, and not world class in my opinion....so on this account, Tony, I agree with you. So then what's your solution for how our Back Line should look for the next decade?
Balotelli has age as an excuse and Cassano is a little crazy.
I think Robinho done more for City than they did for him, and we all know R80 stopped being professional some years ago.
Ramos acts in the same way as Materazzi. Deliberate fouls, pushing people in the face, even national team-mates who helped him become a WC winner.
Brazil seem to be the only country producing genuine talents in all departments.
The youth system of Milan needs to be reviewed starting from the junior ages. Only then can we see how the club progress as once the fair play deal comes in, most big spenders won't be in Europe, including Milan.
Everything was so much better in the good old days... :tong:
So if the general standard of players have dropped, then maybe he's more than good enough anyway? We'll probably never have a new Maldini, Baresi or Nesta, live with it. If we can keep Ibrahimovic and Cassano quiet, then surely we could with Ramos?
People have different opinions on different players. Some people actually remember Zidane as a great football player, rather than a card machine. He got at least 12 red cards during his career. Some of them pretty nasty as well... Not comparing Zidane and Ramos though.
Personally I thought Zidane to be an over-rated player due to 2 goals in a WC Final, and as you said a very dirty player.
I don't mind the standard dropping, but I've got a problem with player's being dirty sobs or racists which Ramos is.
ZvonimirBoban
19-01-2011, 16:05
If Paolo told you to put your hand in a fire...
I can judge the players well enough, and ramos is a dirty player, with no respect for opponents, like his club and manager.
Bar about 5/6 players there are no genuine WC players in the modern game. Maybe Ramos is a good player, but that just shows how far the standards have dropped.
So your point is?
If standard has dropped then surely he's one of the best player in the world. We don't need good players, we need one of the best in the world, and Ramos is one of them. If that means the standard has dropped, then that means he is better than most players out there (in his position), so why not?
Name any right-backs better than him right now. I'd say only Lahm, maybe Alves and Maicon, and even those are disputable.
PS: racists? How?
Russo-Neri
19-01-2011, 16:06
it's hard to find World Class defensive players, perhaps the standard has dropped.
Perhaps offensive players are just so much more skilled and quicker than the "good old days". Perhaps we shouldn't expect clean sheets every game. That said, we still need a FB that can play defense. We keep getting exploited by opposing offenses.
Jay Crisp
19-01-2011, 16:12
and Out...
Yes Indeed!!!!
So your point is?
If standard has dropped then surely he's one of the best player in the world. We don't need good players, we need one of the best in the world, and Ramos is one of them. If that means the standard has dropped, then that means he is better than most players out there (in his position), so why not?
Name any right-backs better than him right now. I'd say only Lahm, maybe Alves and Maicon, and even those are disputable.
PS: racists? How?
Not in my book is he one of the best. He is a thick mf.
All you mentioned are better than him esp Alves & Maicon. You can add Ivanovic too, and prob half a dozen Brazilians nobody has heard of.
He gave an interview a few months ago that was clearly racists. I'm not going to dig it up as I find the player disgusting.
Ironic for someone of gypsy extraction to be a racist, esp in Spain.
Abate has shown more def awareness and covering ability this season than Ramos has ever done as a rb.
Who is Ziegler? Is he good enough to be our fullback backup? :uhm:
Bosniaco
19-01-2011, 20:56
Who is Ziegler? Is he good enough to be our fullback backup? :uhm:
He is a very good left footed player and going foward he is pretty good, however I would question his defensive abilities. He is still 25 years old, so there is still room for improvment.
He is a very good left footed player and going foward he is pretty good, however I would question his defensive abilities. He is still 25 years old, so there is still room for improvment.
Well, 25 years old player should be an established one, not player expected to be improving especially in part (defensive ability for offensive-minded player) that is very hard to improve even for young player.
If he really comes to Milan, I hope he is AT LEAST good enough to be our sub for Zambrotta.
I haven't seen one ziegler's game as a left fullback this season,but I saw his games as a midfielder in world cup.his game style is like prince boateng's with less speed and fiercity but more dicipline.
The material to be a elite fullback is right there, the combination of strength,speed,sprint distance and versatile skill.Still the project is to work on his defence and positioning awareness.at this department, we got former tactical masters tassoti in coaching staff.I remember when abate's fullback earlier stage, he is far behind than ziegler right now.
Plus,3 million is worth the gamble.
hitmannq8
19-01-2011, 21:45
Ziegler, I'm not even sure if he is better than Nini..... Having another option has LB is good, but it's not really good if both our LB's are just as bad as each other.
Ziegler is 25 and people claim there is room to improve, and in his career so far he really hasn't done anything special consistently. On the hand you have Coentrao at 22, who has all the tools necessarily to be the new Maicon (at left back). Coentrao has already played a full World Cup and was Portugal's best player probably, and is already worth about 20m at 22 years old as a fullback. Coentrao, in my opinion, is not only excellent offensively, but he has some real good defensive skills as well that can only get better in a school like Milan.
I really wish Ziegler coming in is simply to replace Jankulovski who is leaving in the summer. We really need a dominant fullback. Yes Abate's improvement is very pleasing to see, and I will support the kid, but I am not yet convinced that Abate should be our RB for the next era. I'd love to have him in the squad, but not as the starter (not yet at least).
So to summarize: Ziegler is not that good, not at all. Hopefully he's just a squad addition, something like what Lazzari will be. These players can be very important for us in the long-run, but they are not starting material at a club like Milan, just saying.
EDIT: latest news from mediaset claim that Ziegler is practically already Milan player for 4 and half years, Milan payed Samp 3 million euro (the ones we got from Flamengo for Dinho).
http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/articoli/articolo51369.shtml
Let's become realistic ...
What want clubs like Benfica with players like Coentrao or David Luiz ? They want money, a lot of money, but they also want to keep these players until the end of the season !!
When you look at the rumours about Coentrao going to Real Madrid, it seems there is an agreement but the player won't leave in January, only in June ...
What do we want right now ? WC players ? Not sure ... unless someone becomes available in this mercato (that means: leaves his club and joins us), it won't happen IMO. In this January month, what we are going to buy is players adding depth to the squad, and as a consequence, we're going to try to get players who aren't cup tied !! We need players who can make an impact now and can play in all the competitions. Someone is saying Cassano ? He's among the players of the previous category: WC (or almost) player available now.
So we should maybe stop dreaming about guys like Coentrao (we're no more even linked with him) during this January month, this kind of player is probably going to come this summer, but right now, that won't happen.
hitmannq8
19-01-2011, 22:18
Actually I just went and youtube scouted Ziegler, I am very impressed with how he scores goals... he scores alot more goals than I am used to from a full back, he doesn't assist enough though and his defense isn't great... but he's scored a few free kick rocket shots with his left foot too. He looks so much better than Criscito that was rated for somewhere between 12-18million!
GeoTav, I really don't think he has any agreement with Real like how you think. Real Madrid are really set on the left flank, they have Marcelo and a sub as Arbeloa, there's no way that Mourinho will bring Coentrao to replace Marcelo because Marcelo is now one of Mourinho's first players in the starting 11. I can see Barcelona making a bid for Coentrao, that's the only position that they are not excellent in. Man United also have Evra, who is also playing very well for them and will play for them for at least 2 more years, I don't think they will join the race for him.
I remember seeing an interview in the summer with Rui Costa, and he said that Milan have the priority on all of his players at Benfica. I don't think getting Coentrao is impossible and is definitely within reach. We were almost going to pay 15m for Cissokho but cancelled at the last minute, I think it is fair to say Coentrao is a much better option than Cissokho so I think going 5m extra for a player that will be a starter in this team for the next decade will be a very wise move.
and we can save a little money for the summer, let go of Seedorf, Pirlo and Ambrosini and get in CESC FABREGAS :D with the wages we save from those 3. Actually let me calculate how much those three make in wages: Seedorf 4.5, Pirlo 6m, Ambrosini 4m, that's 14.5 + another 14.5 for taxes so thats 29 MILLION we are spending every year on three players that are past their best.... Thats 29 million, with another 10 million, can bring the best midfielder in the world Cesc Fabregas, I wish Galliani considers him. Hope Cesc also realises that if he goes to Barca, he will not find any place.
Elmago99
19-01-2011, 22:33
Let's become realistic ...
What want clubs like Benfica with players like Coentrao or David Luiz ? They want money, a lot of money, but they also want to keep these players until the end of the season !!
When you look at the rumours about Coentrao going to Real Madrid, it seems there is an agreement but the player won't leave in January, only in June ...
What do we want right now ? WC players ? Not sure ... unless someone becomes available in this mercato (that means: leaves his club and joins us), it won't happen IMO. In this January month, what we are going to buy is players adding depth to the squad, and as a consequence, we're going to try to get players who aren't cup tied !! We need players who can make an impact now and can play in all the competitions. Someone is saying Cassano ? He's among the players of the previous category: WC (or almost) player available now.
So we should maybe stop dreaming about guys like Coentrao (we're no more even linked with him) during this January month, this kind of player is probably going to come this summer, but right now, that won't happen.
Listen, I'd LOVE for us to get Coentrao in the Summer. I don't feel we're good enough to win Champions League this year, but with 2-3 more signings, we can maybe challenge next year. The problem is that I think there will be a lot more competition in the summer for guys like D. Luiz, Coentrao, Ganso, Lamela, etc. which is why I'd snap them up now, and use them to help win us the Scudetto, which should be our main focus this year.
I would not mind:
Starting RB: Abate
Backup RB: Antonini, Zambrotta
Starting LB: Coentrao
Backup LB: Ziegler
Starting CB's: Nesta, T. Silva
Backup CB's: D. Silva, Astori, Sokratis
Dead wood to leave: Onyewu, Yepes, Jankulovski, Oddo
Elmago99
19-01-2011, 22:37
Actually I just went and youtube scouted Ziegler, I am very impressed with how he scores goals... he scores alot more goals than I am used to from a full back, he doesn't assist enough though and his defense isn't great... but he's scored a few free kick rocket shots with his left foot too. He looks so much better than Criscito that was rated for somewhere between 12-18million!
GeoTav, I really don't think he has any agreement with Real like how you think. Real Madrid are really set on the left flank, they have Marcelo and a sub as Arbeloa, there's no way that Mourinho will bring Coentrao to replace Marcelo because Marcelo is now one of Mourinho's first players in the starting 11. I can see Barcelona making a bid for Coentrao, that's the only position that they are not excellent in. Man United also have Evra, who is also playing very well for them and will play for them for at least 2 more years, I don't think they will join the race for him.
I remember seeing an interview in the summer with Rui Costa, and he said that Milan have the priority on all of his players at Benfica. I don't think getting Coentrao is impossible and is definitely within reach. We were almost going to pay 15m for Cissokho but cancelled at the last minute, I think it is fair to say Coentrao is a much better option than Cissokho so I think going 5m extra for a player that will be a starter in this team for the next decade will be a very wise move.
and we can save a little money for the summer, let go of Seedorf, Pirlo and Ambrosini and get in CESC FABREGAS :D with the wages we save from those 3. Actually let me calculate how much those three make in wages: Seedorf 4.5, Pirlo 6m, Ambrosini 4m, that's 14.5 + another 14.5 for taxes so thats 29 MILLION we are spending every year on three players that are past their best.... Thats 29 million, with another 10 million, can bring the best midfielder in the world Cesc Fabregas, I wish Galliani considers him. Hope Cesc also realises that if he goes to Barca, he will not find any place.
I have watched Sampdoria a descent amount as in America Fox Soccer Channel shows a lot of Serie A, and he is probably the best Left Back in Serie A. He is better than dirty filthy Chivu, and Juventus' wing backs are just bad. He's a big step up from Antonini, I can guarantee you. He can score, cross, defend, and he's actually left footed.
As for Cesc Fabregas, dream on....
I like coentrao very much,he is top level already.but we are back to where we started again,do we have the fund nowadays?
I think the predictable realistic budget for next summer will be around 30 million,and david ruiz should be No1 priority.
Lebanese
19-01-2011, 23:50
I have watched Sampdoria a descent amount as in America Fox Soccer Channel shows a lot of Serie A, and he is probably the best Left Back in Serie A. He is better than dirty filthy Chivu, and Juventus' wing backs are just bad. He's a big step up from Antonini, I can guarantee you. He can score, cross, defend, and he's actually left footed.
As for Cesc Fabregas, dream on....
Well the best left back in serie A is Riise.
Ziegler has 5 career goals and 11 assists, and all in serie A. He played in tottenham, hamburg and wigan and it wasnt a good spell most of the time as a sub, I'm not really decided on Ziegler nor criscito they are both an average players and I can't really understand the hype around criscito he didn't live up the hype when he used to be a juventus youngster. So I'm not gonna say that I don't want any of them because anything over zambrotta, bonera, oddo, antonini and jankulovski is a heavenly upgrade
hitmannq8
20-01-2011, 01:49
has anyone seen the U-20 world cup game of Argentina?
anyone notice Juan Manuel Iturbe???? This kid is dominated the first game just like how Messi dominated the youth championships before he hit the fame.... I remember Genoa were trying to buy this kid last summer... he's worth keeping an eye on. Could be even better than Ganso/Lamela and cheaper.
MilanMikey
20-01-2011, 01:57
We all have to understand that every team has gone through what we have gone through, i mean with this hole rebuilding stage etcetc. its not that were cheap- we have contracts with players like gattuso,ambrosini,seedorf,bonera,janku,antonini,zambrotta these are probably some hefty wages.. if we let off all those players including tax it would be somewhere close to 80-100 million A YEAR maybe even more.. its all a rebuilding stage i guess you could say, right now barcelona has all their players either in their prime or in their growing stage but all phenominal talents, lets not forget when gattuso,pirlo,seedorf etc were all in the same age category and were all great players, the problem is WERE . the thing that made me nervous is we didnt start to rebuild quicker, in all honestly the only constructive mercato we had so far was this summer past buying ibra and robinho getting rid of huntelaar and boriello and kaladze etc bringing in papa and also getting rid of an out of shape dinho whom is 30 for cassano 28 who has alot more to offer nowadays then dinho.
out-bonera,antonini,seedorf
in-ziegler,lazzari,a striker
Gabriel489
20-01-2011, 02:19
There are still plenty of dead weights such as Seedorf, Bonera, Papa, Janku, Oddo, Zambro, and to some extend even Pirlo, Ambro and Gattuso.
Ofcourse getting them all away and replace with players ain't possible, but hopefully in Galli and company can do so within 2 yrs, since the focal point of Milan is Ibra and he is 29, so the time to win is now instead of 5 yrs later.
ZvonimirBoban
20-01-2011, 03:45
has anyone seen the U-20 world cup game of Argentina?
anyone notice Juan Manuel Iturbe???? This kid is dominated the first game just like how Messi dominated the youth championships before he hit the fame.... I remember Genoa were trying to buy this kid last summer... he's worth keeping an eye on. Could be even better than Ganso/Lamela and cheaper.
Goal.com had already gone one step further by calling him The New Messi.:rone::clap:
Originally posted by elmago99
Listen, I'd LOVE for us to get Coentrao in the Summer. I don't feel we're good enough to win Champions League this year, but with 2-3 more signings, we can maybe challenge next year. The problem is that I think there will be a lot more competition in the summer for guys like D. Luiz, Coentrao, Ganso, Lamela, etc. which is why I'd snap them up now, and use them to help win us the Scudetto, which should be our main focus this year.
I would not mind:
Starting RB: Abate
Backup RB: Antonini, Zambrotta
Starting LB: Coentrao
Backup LB: Ziegler
Starting CB's: Nesta, T. Silva
Backup CB's: D. Silva, Astori, Sokratis
Dead wood to leave: Onyewu, Yepes, Jankulovski, Oddo
Agree generally, sale pato next summer, get david ruiz and coentrao,upgrade our defenceline to top level;set CL champion as No1 objective next 2 seasons when ibra in his prime time and before nesta hit decline period. buy ganso and lamela with our annual transfer budget for gradual rebuilding.
abbeyleemaniac
20-01-2011, 04:18
1) Esteban Andrada (Lanús)
2) Germán Pezzella (River)
3) Nicolás Tagliafico (Banfield)
4) Hugo Martín Nervo (Arsenal)
5) Bruno Zucculini (Racing)
6) Leonel Galeano (Independiente)
7) Juan Iturbe (sin club)
8) Ezequiel Cirigliano (River Plate)
9) Rogelio Gabriel Funes Mori (River Plate)
10) Michael Hoyos (Estudiantes LP)
11) Sergio Araujo (Boca)
12) Rodrigo Rey (River Plate)
13) Leandro González Pires (River Plate)
14) Claudio Mosca (Arsenal)
15) Adrián Martínez (San Lorenzo)
16) Rodrigo Battaglia (Huracán)
17) Héctor Cardozo (Estudiantes La Plata)
18) Lucas Rodríguez (Argentinos Juniors)
19) Facundo Pereyra (Banfield)
20) Mauro Díaz (River Plate)
Erm, and your point is. . .
Arildonardo
20-01-2011, 04:40
Not in my book is he one of the best. He is a thick mf.
All you mentioned are better than him esp Alves & Maicon. You can add Ivanovic too, and prob half a dozen Brazilians nobody has heard of.
He gave an interview a few months ago that was clearly racists. I'm not going to dig it up as I find the player disgusting.
Ironic for someone of gypsy extraction to be a racist, esp in Spain.
Abate has shown more def awareness and covering ability this season than Ramos has ever done as a rb.
I disagree with Abate > Ramos. I'm not saying Ramos is THE best in the world, just saying that he's one of the better ones and in my opinion he's surely good enough for Milan.
I know Ramos can be quite dirty sometimes. If he's a racist then that, of course, is disgusting. But I'm not aware that he is.
http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/milan/?action=read&idnet=bWlsYW5uZXdzLml0LTQzMzAy
hahahha leo want ganso hmmmm
we buy retro zigler wtf he is like antonini with more best form in the moment ...
Filipéz 182
20-01-2011, 09:30
Looks like we gonna sign Reto Ziegler. Dont know really why as zambrotta and Antonini are just as good or maybe even better.
About the Sergio Ramos discussion, my 2 cents about that are that this player is a kind of dirty Maicon. Physically and technically, he can do whatever Maicon does. His problem is that he has no brain ...
Anyway, there is room for improvement, let's remember that Maicon was nothing before coming to Inter, he was a joke in Monaco, and suddenly turned into one of the best, if not the best, RB in the world.
Looks like we gonna sign Reto Ziegler. Dont know really why as zambrotta and Antonini are just as good or maybe even better.
Zambrotta is injured and is good but can't play anymore more than 2 games in a row.
Antonini and Abate are, as a consequence, our only serious options available for these positions. We clearly need one, if not two, players. It's why I believe we could take both Criscito and Ziegler for example. Antonini would switch to the right side, there would be a turnover between Abate and Anto, one between Criscito and Ziegler on the left, it would just be good ...
And I always thought Ziegler was a good player. So I think he will be a good squad player.
Filipéz 182
20-01-2011, 09:48
But it wouldnt solve our fullback problem. We would still have weak fullbacks :D we need someone who improves the first 11.
But it wouldnt solve our fullback problem. We would still have weak fullbacks :D we need someone who improves the first 11.
Well, it will improve our first XI: it adds competition, which will force Antonini to give his best or he will be replaced. Antonini is able to make some great performances (he did it last year), far better than what he has showed this season, so if that helps him to play again at some good level, that's an improvement for our best XI ... :D
If he doesn't manage to play well, Ziegler will be very happy to take his place and show us how a left footed LB hugs the line ... :)
Zambrotta is injured and is good but can't play anymore more than 2 games in a row.
Antonini and Abate are, as a consequence, our only serious options available for these positions. We clearly need one, if not two, players. It's why I believe we could take both Criscito and Ziegler for example. Antonini would switch to the right side, there would be a turnover between Abate and Anto, one between Criscito and Ziegler on the left, it would just be good ...
And I always thought Ziegler was a good player. So I think he will be a good squad player.
I am not a fan of Nini the RB, :D but both him and Abate are rarely good at the same time, so let them compete for one position is a good idea.
And I don't know any transfer guru who buy 2 LBs in January :D
Brasileiro
20-01-2011, 10:23
has anyone seen the U-20 world cup game of Argentina?
anyone notice Juan Manuel Iturbe???? This kid is dominated the first game just like how Messi dominated the youth championships before he hit the fame.... I remember Genoa were trying to buy this kid last summer... he's worth keeping an eye on. Could be even better than Ganso/Lamela and cheaper.
I will not put Ganso and Lamela in the same sentence, my friend. Thats not fair with Ganso. Lamela still has done nothing in football to deserve this hype.
On a side(and sad for me) note, Giuliano will be sold today for a Ukraine team that I never heard before. And the best part, for only 10 millions(euros).
A player that was one of the best players of the last Under-20 WC, shined at Brasileirão, was chose the best player of the last Libertadores da America(S.A. Champions League) and did it all comming from the bench. And all of it with only 20 year old, for a position we need and we are not even looking for him?!?! When I said here some months ago that Brazilian players are underrated these days...
Unbelievable that with his talent, and performances at high level, no one but a freaking small Ukraine team buy him and for only 10 millions. I´m done...
I will not put Ganso and Lamela in the same sentence, my friend. Thats not fair with Ganso. Lamela still has done nothing in football to deserve this hype.
On a side(and sad for me) note, Giuliano will be sold today for a Ukraine team that I never heard before. And the best part, for only 10 millions(euros).
A player that was one of the best players of the last Under-20 WC, shined at Brasileirão, was chose the best player of the last Libertadores da America(S.A. Champions League) and did it all comming from the bench. And all of it with only 20 year old, for a position we need and we are not even looking for him?!?! When I said here some months ago that Brazilian players are underrated these days...
Unbelievable that with his talent, and performances at high level, no one but a freaking small Ukraine team buy him and for only 10 millions. I´m done...
Well, didn't he play for Dynamo Kiev or another Ukranian club before that ?
The fact is that nowadays, for a talented player, with no disrespect for the clubs from Eastern Europe, when they sign there, there is almost no chance, unless the guy shines with this club in CL, that one of the big clubs of Europe will look for him ...
IMO, nowadays, it's like wanting to make it harder for his own career to sign in Ukraine or Russia ...
Jay Crisp
20-01-2011, 11:16
He's gone to Dnipropetrovsk Brasileiro..Yeah not a huge name BUT...they are pumping in money just like Shakhtar built a new stadium nice one aswell and have Juande Ramos as manager (read into that how you like) so Im thinking Giuliano and his agent think , we'll be playing in Europe club competition next season and be in the shop window..Make alot of money for a season or 2 and move on then.But I do agree he should of gone to a bigger club.Not the worst move though as you see even with Yaya Toure 1 or 2 seasons and boom you get the attention of a huge club.
Brasileiro
20-01-2011, 11:49
Well, didn't he play for Dynamo Kiev or another Ukranian club before that ?
The fact is that nowadays, for a talented player, with no disrespect for the clubs from Eastern Europe, when they sign there, there is almost no chance, unless the guy shines with this club in CL, that one of the big clubs of Europe will look for him ...
IMO, nowadays, it's like wanting to make it harder for his own career to sign in Ukraine or Russia ...
No, Geo... first time he will leave Brazil... and you couldn´t be more right about the bold part.
Giuliano is a smart boy, and he accepting this move let me confused. Jucilei last season had a chance to go there(E. Europe) and his agent said they will hold for a better league. He almost go o PSG, but also chose to wait for a BIG in Europe. Giuliano will kills his chance with Brazil NT and he was almost certain at Olympic squad. Terrible move... and strange, for a guy that said he plan his career in the mold of Kaká.
He's gone to Dnipropetrovsk Brasileiro..Yeah not a huge name BUT...they are pumping in money just like Shakhtar built a new stadium nice one aswell and have Juande Ramos as manager (read into that how you like) so Im thinking Giuliano and his agent think , we'll be playing in Europe club competition next season and be in the shop window..Make alot of money for a season or 2 and move on then.But I do agree he should of gone to a bigger club.Not the worst move though as you see even with Yaya Toure 1 or 2 seasons and boom you get the attention of a huge club.Thanks for the info, Jay...
If the recent history shows anything for these young Brazilians, is that this is a bad strategy. Fernandinho come from being a bright spot in world title from Brazil under-20 and is still there. William is a amazing young #10 and is still there. Douglas Costa is a player for a big club and is forgotten there... Btw, from what I heard here, these Ukraine and Russia clubs don´t sell easily. Plus, I doubt they will improve(as players) there...
It´s better to pull a Hernanes and goes to Europe at 25.
ACMILAN1983
20-01-2011, 12:17
Without wanting to sound pessimistic, I think a lot of players will join these eastern european sides for money
He's gone to Dnipropetrovsk Brasileiro..Yeah not a huge name BUT...they are pumping in money just like Shakhtar built a new stadium nice one aswell and have Juande Ramos as manager (read into that how you like) so Im thinking Giuliano and his agent think , we'll be playing in Europe club competition next season and be in the shop window..Make alot of money for a season or 2 and move on then.But I do agree he should of gone to a bigger club.Not the worst move though as you see even with Yaya Toure 1 or 2 seasons and boom you get the attention of a huge club.
That'a a massive name.
Elmago99
20-01-2011, 13:22
Not to spark a bigger conversation, I've already ruffled feathers today, but it is of my opinion that that Western European Clubs (English clubs in particular), won't rule forever. Money shifts, from West to East currently. I think Russian clubs will be very strong in next 5-10 years. I know it's cold and their season is different, but if that all manages to get sorted out, they can and will have the money to buy good players.
Like Dev said, Brazilians and others will go where the money is. It almost always is about the money....Furthermore, England is in such massive debt, along with the E.U., who knows if this will all end up badly, but Russia and Ukraine are in better financial shape. Who knows what will happen. Luckily for us, Berlusconi is extremely rich, partnering rich companies. Moratti is in oil, which is even better business in the next decade....
Jay Crisp
20-01-2011, 13:59
The league times wont and really cant change..cannot be playing in -15 or -20 , there dangerous countries also and corrupt for reasons like this they will never be like the bundesliga or EPL.Sure there is alot of money but you can by euro 2012 how bad they are at organizing ( that sounds kind of xenophobic im not) the powers that be couldnt organize an orgy in a who*re house...I am saying the upper people not the ordinary working man and woman...just my opinion though.
Is Ziegler for sure a Milan player? or still just rumors? Is it a fair comparison to Jankulovski when he came from Udine? Lefty wide player placed at LB in the Italian game, strong going forward and suspect at defense.
Brasileiro
20-01-2011, 15:59
Without wanting to sound pessimistic, I think a lot of players will join these eastern european sides for money
There´s no doubt about that, but it´s not only the player fault. The new Inter president said they need to sell a player asap. I don´t know about other places, but you guys have no idea of the presure some Clubs do to the player accept the offer. Marcelo before Real madrid has a history to tell...
Btw, watching Milan now, if what the TV comentator told is true(is a idiot, but has conections in Italy), you can count Pato out of Milan next season. Unless galliani work some magic...
i dont think 1 problematic game can harm Pato's future with this club. I know footballers are prescious little fairies, but that's a bit over the top.
19 January 2011 - 16.00
www.acmilan.com
OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE FROM A.C. MILAN
MILAN - A.C. Milan announces the purchase of 17 year-old midfielder Mattia Valoti in a co-ownership agreement with a U.C. Albinoleffe.
Comment from Albinoleffe's coach and information about the player (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http://www.calciomercatonews.com/ultime-notizie/2011/01/20/calciomercato-milan-mondonico-preso-il-nuovo-pastore/)
ps: credit to other milan forum for providing the calciomercato link
Originally posted by xvr11
Is Ziegler for sure a Milan player? or still just rumors? Is it a fair comparison to Jankulovski when he came from Udine? Lefty wide player placed at LB in the Italian game, strong going forward and suspect at defense.
Fair comparison to some extent. I did some catch up home work,saw a game video between sampodoria and roma.
The good sign, ziegler looks lot more agile comparing to jankuloski's awkward slow-motion like turnaround when facing wingers' blizzing past.
Brasileiro
20-01-2011, 20:46
i dont think 1 problematic game can harm Pato's future with this club. I know footballers are prescious little fairies, but that's a bit over the top.
I couldn´t watch the second-falf of the game, Codino. Anything new happened or you´re talking about the other game?
The comentator was talking about a locker room rumor...
I couldn´t watch the second-falf of the game, Codino. Anything new happened or you´re talking about the other game?
The comentator was talking about a locker room rumor...
ohh i see.
no no nothing happened, its just the general vibe from media and fans all of a sudden. Everyone gets persuaded so easily when these stories come out.
Did you watch Brasil + Paraguay? i thought Lucas had a very solid game! any news on him (interest, past performences)?
I couldn´t watch the second-falf of the game, Codino. Anything new happened or you´re talking about the other game?
The comentator was talking about a locker room rumor...
http://football-italia.net/blogs/al175.html...could be a stupid article but i guess there is something happening..U remember there was a guy here a few weeks backs back saying something about Pato likely to be sold and he's been having some attitude problems..some rumours here and there are that he was not injured but he was kept out of the squad so that he can get a control over his party life..
Well,the only problem i could see is that probably milan mgmt has huge expectations over Pato and he's still yet to fullfil it..
after Bari's game yesterday, i really don't think we need Lazzari at the moment. Well maybe if he is here to replace Seedorf then fine, but I would hate it if he takes away possible playing time from Merkel.
The kid played an excellent game. I think the position has also helped as there is less pressure than having to be the playmaker of the team, plus he can cover so much ground running up and down the pitch and adding creativity to that 3-man midfield which has been desperately lacking.
It's so good to see a couple of Milan products getting slowly but surely integrated into the 1st team and i think they might be the players to take over from the old guard and the timing will certainly help...just hope our mercato doesn't ruin their chances.
after Bari's game yesterday, i really don't think we need Lazzari at the moment. Well maybe if he is here to replace Seedorf then fine, but I would hate it if he takes away possible playing time from Merkel.
The kid played an excellent game. I think the position has also helped as there is less pressure than having to be the playmaker of the team, plus he can cover so much ground running up and down the pitch and adding creativity to that 3-man midfield which has been desperately lacking.
It's so good to see a couple of Milan products getting slowly but surely integrated into the 1st team and i think they might be the players to take over from the old guard and the timing will certainly help...just hope our mercato doesn't ruin their chances.
Agree. We should give Strasser & Merkel the chance they deserve. Both are confident and have some required skills.
Another news: Criscito is injured, so Milan focus on Ziegler. Montelongo may go to Bologna on loan.
Germany national team's 4 versatile mid is the future .Maybe we can play 2 creative mid + 1 destructive mid instead of our current 2 destructive mid + 1 creative mid. if we have kpb,lazarri and merkel, we can try it. flamini and straseer play midfield stopper, the eldest of these 5 is 26.plus 1 veteran like ambro ,we are well covered at this department in near future.our transfer focus this summer should be the backline.
[url]http://football-italia.net/blogs/al175.html
...could be a stupid article but i guess there is something happening..U remember there was a guy here a few weeks backs back saying something about Pato likely to be sold and he's been having some attitude problems..some rumours here and there are that he was not injured but he was kept out of the squad so that he can get a control over his party life..
Well,the only problem i could see is that probably milan mgmt has huge expectations over Pato and he's still yet to fullfil it..
Well i don't think it is a stupid article as obviously we can see live proof on the pitch that some players are not happy with Pato's contribution...
I am a HUGE Pato fan and a few members here already know that and we have had numerous "discussions" about it......:swars: :P
It is obvious the kid has the POTENTIAL to be the best, even when he is so criticized for not offering enough, his numbers say he is our most prolific striker not just currently but in Milan's history for someone who is 21.
The arguments are whether we should offer him more time to work on his overall game or sell him now for a huge amount of money because his price will include a premium for a potential that some say might never be fulfilled so it will be better to cash on him now. Some even argue that the problem is in the mind, character, partying antics, which are things that could be very hard to change.
he is 21 for God's sake!!!!!!! if a 21 yr-old cannot change and improve then who will??? And please don't tell me that he was given so much time already....that is BS...ever since he came to the club he has been under pressure to score and help us get results because we were in such a mess and for many long periods we only had him as our main striker and he delivered brilliantly.
He got injured, got married, got injured, got divorced, got injured...and got injured again...he has yet to have 1 single NORMAL season for us.
Cool it down around him, let Allegri and the older players help him (but not a la Gattuso during a match), do not criticize every single touch he makes.
We all know how the media likes to speculate about football transfers even when there is absolutely no basis whatsoever (sometimes with the sole purpose of creating unease inside a club's atmosphere), so I do not think that public criticism is the best way to help a struggling 21 yr-old to have a clear mind to concentrate on his work.
Selling Pato should not be an option...obviously not until we are sure he was given enough chances and he failed...which is something i strongly believe he hasn't.
ACMILAN1983
21-01-2011, 03:59
There´s no doubt about that, but it´s not only the player fault. The new Inter president said they need to sell a player asap. I don´t know about other places, but you guys have no idea of the presure some Clubs do to the player accept the offer. Marcelo before Real madrid has a history to tell...
Btw, watching Milan now, if what the TV comentator told is true(is a idiot, but has conections in Italy), you can count Pato out of Milan next season. Unless galliani work some magic...
I have no doubt many players are pressured into it. I'm not really sure what Brazilian clubs are like now, but I was shocked at the corruption some years ago.
Also, we musn't forget many players are willing to move for the money because they can simply earn so much more elsewhere. I remember reading a story about a Brazilian moving to an amateur Norwegian team and working in some fish factory and still earning a lot more than what he would in Brazil. He needed to for his family too. Brazil's economy is improving, but it will take time before players stop doing this.
I'm not sure about Pato. I expect him to start against Cesena with Robinho and Ibra. Ultimately, I think his future at the club is in his hands. He's talented enough to start ahead of every other forward we have, but he needs to work really hard to get that starting spot (I was impressed at how hard Robinho and Cassano worked yesterday).
Gabriel489
21-01-2011, 04:14
Why is it that whenever there is a hot striker in Milan, the other striker will be link to transfer rumors?
Pato is very talented and he has all the tools to become the next big thing in football. People like to compare him to Messi but Messi got players like Dinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Eto and others around him to let him mature slowly. Where as Pato had Kaka, an inconsistent Dinho(while playing out of position), and now Ibra, Robinho and Cassano around him. Look at the Udin game and did you see how well Pato played, his movement, his touches and his shots. Name another 21 yrs old over the past 10 yrs that could play like Pato beside Messi? It is easy to say that Pato will never fulfill his potential....but he is only 21, if he is 25 or so, then it is another story. Regarding his private life, remember the time when you were 21, now imagine you actually had money and fame, what would you be doing after work? Give the kid a break for partying as thats what normal 21 yrs old do.
The only thing that concerns me is his injuries, but I think that had more to do with his size playing in Serie A more than his health in general.
Milanster
21-01-2011, 04:28
Comment from Albinoleffe's coach and information about the player (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http://www.calciomercatonews.com/ultime-notizie/2011/01/20/calciomercato-milan-mondonico-preso-il-nuovo-pastore/)
ps: credit to other milan forum for providing the calciomercato link
Does anyone know much about this 17 year-old Mattia Valoti? potential etc
Why is it that whenever there is a hot striker in Milan, the other striker will be link to transfer rumors?
Pato is very talented and he has all the tools to become the next big thing in football. People like to compare him to Messi but Messi got players like Dinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Eto and others around him to let him mature slowly. Where as Pato had Kaka, an inconsistent Dinho(while playing out of position), and now Ibra, Robinho and Cassano around him. Look at the Udin game and did you see how well Pato played, his movement, his touches and his shots. Name another 21 yrs old over the past 10 yrs that could play like Pato beside Messi? It is easy to say that Pato will never fulfill his potential....but he is only 21, if he is 25 or so, then it is another story. Regarding his private life, remember the time when you were 21, now imagine you actually had money and fame, what would you be doing after work? Give the kid a break for partying as thats what normal 21 yrs old do.
The only thing that concerns me is his injuries, but I think that had more to do with his size playing in Serie A more than his health in general.
Pato shouldn't have been compared to Messi & Ronaldo (the real one) in first place. He is no where near them. Just another talented goal scoring Brazilian & that's it. I don't think Pato can be even 50% of Messi or Ronaldo in future. Pato and Messi are like ground & sky. No disrespect to Pato of-course, but let just face it, he will never be one of those kind of players. :dconf:
kastriot
21-01-2011, 06:22
Pato shouldn't have been compared to Messi & Ronaldo (the real one) in first place. He is no where near them. Just another talented goal scoring Brazilian & that's it. I don't think Pato can be even 50% of Messi or Ronaldo in future. Pato and Messi are like ground & sky. No disrespect to Pato of-course, but let just face it, he will never be one of those kind of players. :dconf:
Thats to be seen...
In term of raw talent he is up there with messi and ronaldo for sure..how will he develop thats a different story. Actually the debate is around this issue lately.
I for one believe that he has not developed on bit. He might score goals at free will,but thats only because he is extremely talented. But mentally he is still the same 17 years old that scored against Napoli.
But the poor guy has yet to experience a problem-less season. I am willing to give him all the time in the world because in min time he will still score 20 + goals. But he needs to understand that he is not a kid anymore, guys like C.Ronaldo and Messi were team leaders with 30 + goals, and player of the year.When we pay 20 mil thats what we expect from him.
Now that Ibra is here, he is free of pressure to develop as he should have, but for me to give him the benefit of the doubt he needs to show me that he actually cares,by going the extra mile,by taking the extra challenge.
For god sake, Robinho`s and Ibra`s work rate has made look Pato like a sissy boy,and its not like they are Gattuso or Flamini.
One more thing that really bothers me: now that even he doesn`t have a guaranteed place in the team, when give chance he doesn`t seem to fight for that place.
Maybe i`m to harsh on him, but this is my honest opinion on him based on what he has shown so far.
Galliani: ‘Ziegler, Criscito and Lazzari cost too much’
Speaking to Sky Sport 24, Galliani said: “Ziegler and Criscito? I do not believe they will come, we lack the economic agreement and the demands are excessive. Lazzari? The same goes for him.
“If the market is closed? I wouldn’t say that, we’ll see if there is anything we can do.”
Galliani: ‘Ziegler, Criscito and Lazzari cost too much’
Speaking to Sky Sport 24, Galliani said: “Ziegler and Criscito? I do not believe they will come, we lack the economic agreement and the demands are excessive. Lazzari? The same goes for him.
“If the market is closed? I wouldn’t say that, we’ll see if there is anything we can do.”
Just saw this as well. I doubt Galliani's words can be trusted. :1old: :pp20:
I think we will get at least a defender, we are fine in midfield if the youngsters keep up their performances and the 1st teamp players recover in the meantime.
Elmago99
21-01-2011, 08:40
max allegri on pato.....
http://translate.google.com/translat...u=milannews.it
Pato shouldn't have been compared to Messi & Ronaldo (the real one) in first place. He is no where near them. Just another talented goal scoring Brazilian & that's it. I don't think Pato can be even 50% of Messi or Ronaldo in future. Pato and Messi are like ground & sky. No disrespect to Pato of-course, but let just face it, he will never be one of those kind of players. :dconf:
mzk57, with all due respect, i frankly think that its a stupid comment to make on pato....this kid is really big...do not forget that...i seriously think that pato has even more potential than ronaldo...pls give him more time....pato can be sold but only after his best is over, lets say when he has reached the pinnacle at the age of 27 may be ...he can be sold for a good sum like we did in the case of kaka....BUT NOT NOW for christs sake...!!!!! i would be happy if we sold robinho instead and invested in a centre back cum full back (david luiz) and a midfielder
Elmago99
21-01-2011, 09:52
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/01/21/2316225/antonio-cassano-makes-it-easy-at-milan-robinho
I won't give up on Pato, but very glad Robinho, Ibra, and Cassano are getting along well in that trident...Against better teams though, I'm not convinced Robinho can handle the ACM position, although he did very well yesterday, against a poor team no less...
ACMILAN1983
21-01-2011, 09:55
max allegri on pato.....
http://translate.google.com/translat...u=milannews.it
The link doesn't seem to work?
Ibra's spoken about Pato today as well, but nothing to suggest there are any problems.
Anyway, all this talk about Pato is a little over the top. He needs to work hard to keep his spot on the team, but that's because there's so much competition in the squad for attack, our strongest area by far. I really don't believe he's as problematic as suggested of late.
I've said it numerous times, but Pato going on ability alone has the potential to surpass all of our forwards, including Ibra. He's without a doubt a phenomenon in this aspect. His weakness is his tactical awareness and decision making. He's always played with his instinct and therefore it's not surprising this has been a problem.
However, there's a good chance he's like Ancelotti when Sacchi joined. A player who initially struggled under the new system, but given time (and extra effort, in Ancelotti's case being he did an extra hour training everyday to learn) became integral to the side.
No coach would say no to a talent like Pato (given his age), and I'm sure Allegri will agree.
Aparently we are linked with the left back Marcel Schmelzerfrom Dortmund, from what i have seen he's much better than Criscito and Ziegler, more class & grit....but proble m is that Joachim Leow wont let him go and is trying to tie him up until 2014......
Milan are interested in another LB: Marcel Schmelzer
http://www.rossoneriblog.com/milan-interested-in-e9m-rated-left-back/
This guy has the same agent as Boateng. 28 matches / 3 assists
Jay Crisp
21-01-2011, 10:15
So Ziegler is 25 has played in Italy for 3 year's and played well for alot of it , he is better than Nini Zambro and Janku and Oddo ATM..has been capped 20+ times isnt Coentrao but Galliani says Samp have drasticaly reduce their asking price...they want 3.5 mil that is very fair to me do we have no funds again ?? Dinho's wage alone would almost cover that twice.
You know what could be the problem with Pato ?
He probably joined us too early ...
Look at Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, they firstly joined a good but not top team in Europe and developped normally by then going into a big club.
Now look at Robinho, the guy maybe joined a big club too early and didn't really improve in Madrid. When you see what he has done so far in Milan, the way he moves and gives it all, it's something he could have done earlier in his career if he had played in a club with a bit less pressure before joining a big club.
Of course, for these 3 examples, you have the exception of Kaka' for example who joined us and shined immediately ...
With these examples, what I'm afraid of with Pato is that he could become the so called next big thing, but instead of being it at 22-23 (or even now), he could become it at 25-26 ... I may be a bit pessimistic, but IMO, it's what could happen. Then, the debate about keeping him or receiving a big amount of money now is normal, but the question is: is it worth receiving a big amount of money now but allowing another big club to have one of the best strikers of the future ?
Jay Crisp
21-01-2011, 10:57
No Pato go...I want him to stay he's only 21 since Sept FFS and how much is he worth now 30 35 mil I'd prefer him to stay .
Filipéz 182
21-01-2011, 11:11
Our latest target Marcel schemlzer is a lot better than Ziegler and Criscito IMO. he is having a VERY impressive season :)
Gabriel489
21-01-2011, 11:23
Its so funny how before Ibra and Robinho aerated, everyone here is wishing and hoping Pato to stay and dominate....now that Ibra is here, people want Pato to leave.
Filipéz 182
21-01-2011, 11:25
Its so funny how before Ibra and Robinho aerated, everyone here is wishing and hoping Pato to stay and dominate....now that Ibra is here, people want Pato to leave.
not me :) :::::
Its so funny how before Ibra and Robinho aerated, everyone here is wishing and hoping Pato to stay and dominate....now that Ibra is here, people want Pato to leave.
Until now, I haven't seen anyone wanting him to leave on MM or I missed some posts ?
Ibra and Cassano won't last for a decade, Pato could ... and personnally, I think the fact that WC strikers like Ibra arrived can only be a good thing for Pato as he will learn from them and that will force him to fight to earn a starting spot.
Elmago99
21-01-2011, 11:57
Its so funny how before Ibra and Robinho aerated, everyone here is wishing and hoping Pato to stay and dominate....now that Ibra is here, people want Pato to leave.
:rr30:with this negative energy about Pato Leaving. It won't happen, and I suggest everyone squash these rumors immediately....Hopefully he stays for a decade!
You know what could be the problem with Pato ?
He probably joined us too early ...
Look at Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, they firstly joined a good but not top team in Europe and developped normally by then going into a big club.
Now look at Robinho, the guy maybe joined a big club too early and didn't really improve in Madrid. When you see what he has done so far in Milan, the way he moves and gives it all, it's something he could have done earlier in his career if he had played in a club with a bit less pressure before joining a big club.
Of course, for these 3 examples, you have the exception of Kaka' for example who joined us and shined immediately ...
With these examples, what I'm afraid of with Pato is that he could become the so called next big thing, but instead of being it at 22-23 (or even now), he could become it at 25-26 ... I may be a bit pessimistic, but IMO, it's what could happen. Then, the debate about keeping him or receiving a big amount of money now is normal, but the question is: is it worth receiving a big amount of money now but allowing another big club to have one of the best strikers of the future ?
Interesting point you make with Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, Geo. But I slightly disagree that Pato's joining us a bit "too early" renders "the problem" to his completely fulfilling his potential. While he might've developed more properly in a smaller club with less pressure, the fact that he jumped right away to a big club with even bigger pressure like Milan, and more importantly, how he has coped with it, is IMO a showing of just how strong his mentality is.
Kaka, a relatively unknown player to us then, had took part in more than 50 games already, and won, CMIIW, the MVP trophy in Brasil. But people tend to forget that Pato had less than a year of pro football, playing in TEN games, before he joined one of the biggest clubs in the world, in arguably the most defensive-minded, tactically-demanding league. Can you imagine such drastic change to a kid aged 17? And how did he deal with it? With flying color if you ask me. His stat proves that.
As expected, he encounters some problem now and then, both on how to adapt to tactical demand of the coach (remember, he has had three coaches up to now) and, to a much greater extent, his injuries. Perhaps, he'll take longer time to mature, like you predicted.
It's said that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And seeing how well he has been dealing with the problems, both on and off the field, I have no doubt that he has the required character to fully realize his potential in the future. His best is yet to come, and I'm more than willing to give him time.
what you people talking abauth pato this are the nubmers for pato
thsi season in seria 10 starts and 8 goals
in milan shirt 106 caps and 48 goals :P
one of binh oand cassano will playing with pato and ibrahotovi up front
ACMILAN1983
21-01-2011, 12:47
Gabriel I don't think anyone wants pato to leave (maybe hitman), but the doubts raised about him can be considered fair as he's not maturing as quickly as we hope. That said I think we just need to give him time and support him.
Geo I agree maybe Pato's come too quickly, but I don't think it's the problem. Essentially it seems people want him to grow too quickly and become a leader like messi. The problem is not every player is messi and can lead an attack at 21. Let's not forget messi is a barca youth product and has lived in the club and country since he was a child, and unlike pato hasn't needed to adapt to a new culture or club.
If I'm honest, I only think pato needs a bit of time and consistent playing time to learn and establish himself as a great player
abbeyleemaniac
21-01-2011, 12:52
Pato is already a great player yet he has to improve to be better player, tactically and mentally Pato needs to improve. i want Pato stay with us, as he just need to realize he has to fight for the team and sacrifice himself for the team. He and ibra didnt play that much, considering that, it will be different in coming weeks...
i want Robinho to start, as he offers something we shouldnt forget, his movement, speed, flair, his tricks, he also tracks back, his movement on the wings and how he opens wings.Because of this factors, also we dont have a this kind of midfield who can do this job, i want Robinho to start when he is in form, always. his understanding with ibra also amazing.Our midfield is defensively good, and however offensively for example, we cant replace Boateng properly or Pirlo. we missed them so bad during their absence.
We will be much better when Robinho, Boateng, ibra are fit in attack.
abbeyleemaniac
21-01-2011, 12:56
Gabriel I don't think anyone wants pato to leave (maybe hitman), but the doubts raised about him can be considered fair as he's not maturing as quickly as we hope. That said I think we just need to give him time and support him.
Geo I agree maybe Pato's come too quickly, but I don't think it's the problem. Essentially it seems people want him to grow too quickly and become a leader like messi. The problem is not every player is messi and can lead an attack at 21. Let's not forget messi is a barca youth product and has lived in the club and country since he was a child, and unlike pato hasn't needed to adapt to a new culture or club.
If I'm honest, I only think pato needs a bit of time and consistent playing time to learn and establish himself as a great player
Lets not forget that injuries stopped his progress. we also shouldnt forget why Ancelotti bashed Pato for not working like Cafu or Emerson in training.
i think that because of 2 factors, he didnt mature quickly as we hoped.
About a possible problem between Pato and the other strikers, and more especially Ibra, I don't think there is any, if Ibra can become friend with Balotelli (it seems they have kept in touch since Ibra left Inter) ...
And about Ibra-Balotelli, Ibra replied Balotelli in medias about the possible arrival of Balo in Milan saying that he is sorry but with Pato, Cassano, Robinho, himself and even Inzaghi when he'll come back, it would be too much and there is no need and space, unless Galliani decides the contrary, for a new striker.
If there had been some problems between our strikers, the guy could have said that Balotelli would be very welcome in the club, sending a message to the management that Balotelli would be accepted and, as a direct consequence, Pato could be the guy to make leave (as Ibra, Robinho and Cassano just arrived) for that to happen ... But it didn't happen this way (and will not happen this way hopefully) !! :)
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