Most of the Italians players(except defenders and goalies) gain momentum and confidence after turning 22-24 years old, this is why according to me, we shouldn't be hurrying with Italians, keep loaning them to different clubs till they start gaining momentum and confidence. This is the mistake that we committed against Petagna, Cristante, Darmian(he was good till Louis Van Gaal was at the club, Mourinho destroyed him).
(10-22-2019, 04:14 AM)porcho Wrote: [ -> ]This has always been my point. Say someone like Verdi. He's no Starter... but then we wouldn't need to buy Castillejo(ignoring the fact there were other factors there).
Or Darmian... we wouldn't need to buy Conti.
There's 40m right there saved that we could have spent on much needed CM
Not to mention the fact we sold off Locatelli and signed Biglia. Talk about an own goal.
Plus, these guys getting more game time earlier may have meant that they developed better.
Not to say that we should keep all of them but why sell off average youth to sign average middle aged players.
Example... I'm happy we sold off Cutrone and brought in Leao. Huge improvement in my books.
We've had years of poor decisions and I think we're being a little unrealistic to not expect it to take years to fix it all. That being said, I'm also one of the impatient ones that expects us back to our best ASAP.
(10-22-2019, 11:35 AM)AC_Troy Wrote: [ -> ]The million dollar question is when are the poor decisions going to stop?
My positive answer is soon...
My realistic answer is not in the foreseeable future. Not while Gazidis is sticking his head into the footballing side of the club.
I think the fundamental part of some of these moves that you guys are forgetting, is the fact that a lot of those players WANTED to go. They wanted to play and didn't want to sit on the bench. They think they should be starters at 20-21 years old, but the truth is that they weren't ready. We are talking about things that happened YEARS after the fact.
Darmian didn't develop for years after we let him go. Was he going to want to sit on the bench all that time? And if he did, was he going to develop? Saying we'll just loan them out sounds great in theory, but not all of them want that.
Look at Locatelli for example. He didn't even want a buy-back clause inserted. He thought he should be a starter, and as soon as he wasn't starting he started to pout and eventually left and wanted nothing to do with us.
Cristante is another one. He wanted to be a starter, but the fact is he wasn't ready. He actually wasn't ready for 2-3 years after he left us for Benfica. He was even trash in Benfica so they let him go too. You are talking 2-3 years of battling to hold on to a player in order to develop him...all the while he is pouting for not starting and wants to leave.
Verdi is still not a starting material for a CL battling side....case and point Napoli. He warmed the bench there so ended up leaving because he didn't want to sit on the bench.
Cutrone is one of the only ones that i can remember being upset for being sold. But him too...he thought he should be a starter when he simply wasn't up to that...at least not yet. So he was pouting on the bench and being all mad. Still, I respect the fact that he wanted to stay here and fight.
I don't feel bad for letting these guys go. None of them have turned out world class after leaving us. Some of them have had good seasons here or there, but nothing world beating. The problem was the replacements we kept signing. At the time, maybe they were a bit better then our youngsters, but still mediocre nonetheless. These were short-sided moves by the management. Hopefully things change.
(10-23-2019, 03:21 AM)nefremo Wrote: [ -> ]I think the fundamental part of some of these moves that you guys are forgetting, is the fact that a lot of those players WANTED to go. They wanted to play and didn't want to sit on the bench. They think they should be starters at 20-21 years old, but the truth is that they weren't ready. We are talking about things that happened YEARS after the fact.
Darmian didn't develop for years after we let him go. Was he going to want to sit on the bench all that time? And if he did, was he going to develop? Saying we'll just loan them out sounds great in theory, but not all of them want that.
My argument here is he should have been playing. It's not like we had much better.
Look at Locatelli for example. He didn't even want a buy-back clause inserted. He thought he should be a starter, and as soon as he wasn't starting he started to pout and eventually left and wanted nothing to do with us.
This I agree with. But I'd argue that he should have been starting as we didn't have better.
Cristante is another one. He wanted to be a starter, but the fact is he wasn't ready. He actually wasn't ready for 2-3 years after he left us for Benfica. He was even trash in Benfica so they let him go too. You are talking 2-3 years of battling to hold on to a player in order to develop him...all the while he is pouting for not starting and wants to leave.
Cristante I've never rated... even now.
Verdi is still not a starting material for a CL battling side....case and point Napoli. He warmed the bench there so ended up leaving because he didn't want to sit on the bench.
I agree here although I'd rather have kept him and given him some real game time instead of relying so heavily on Suso.
Cutrone is one of the only ones that i can remember being upset for being sold. But him too...he thought he should be a starter when he simply wasn't up to that...at least not yet. So he was pouting on the bench and being all mad. Still, I respect the fact that he wanted to stay here and fight.
I do too but ultimately don't think he was good enough.
I don't feel bad for letting these guys go. None of them have turned out world class after leaving us. Some of them have had good seasons here or there, but nothing world beating. The problem was the replacements we kept signing. At the time, maybe they were a bit better then our youngsters, but still mediocre nonetheless. These were short-sided moves by the management. Hopefully things change.
Pretty much. It's not so much that I think we should have kept them. It's that coupled with who we replaced them with. If we sold Locatelli for example and replaced him with someone better then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Same goes with all of them.
Perfect example being Cutrone... Now that we've seen some more of Leao... Who cares that Cutrone was sold?
(10-23-2019, 03:34 AM)porcho Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much. It's not so much that I think we should have kept them. It's that coupled with who we replaced them with. If we sold Locatelli for example and replaced him with someone better then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Same goes with all of them.
Perfect example being Cutrone... Now that we've seen some more of Leao... Who cares that Cutrone was sold?
I do.
I actually don't see Leao and Cutrone as direct competitors for a same position. They have very different characteristics too. When Piatek stinks and does nothing but diving, I wish that we still had a fighter in Cutrone pairing up with Leao.
(10-23-2019, 03:44 AM)ACM2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I do.
I actually don't see Leao and Cutrone as direct competitors for a same position. They have very different characteristics too. When Piatek stinks and does nothing but diving, I wish that we still had a fighter in Cutrone pairing up with Leao.
I agree. very much different players. But I'm not sure we would have ended up with LEao if we did not sell Cutrone. But I still don't rate him that high. He was all fight, very little ability. Sad to see the kid go but I thought he'd be a better fit for the EPL. Still early days so I hope he fits in there and does well.
We need to start to sign Italian talents not only foreign players.
Inter signed Sensi, Barella, Juve signed Bernardeschi, Roma Zaniolo, Pellegrini and Napoli has Insigne.
There are five italian players left worth to sign, Belotti, Chiesa, Berardi, Tonali and Vignato. Chiesa is impossible and will sign to Juve, so is Belotti whose value is sky high, Berardi is an Inter fan, so we must sign Tonali and Vignato.
Tonali who is a Milan fan to replace Kessie and be the new Pirlo/Gattuso mix next to Bennacer an Paqueta! Vignato to be the next superstar, a trequartista behind Piatek and Leao. He could be our New Kaka!
Belotti would be icing on the cake, he is also a Milan fan!
Donnarumma
Calabria Caldara Romagnoli Theo Hernandez
Tonali Bennacer Paqueta
Vignato
Leao Piatek/Belotti
I think in two years this team could be phenomenal! Young, fast, Italian and full of talents!
We are not that far...
mark my words, we will be udinese under gazidis, and we wont be the old milan where we have a proud lineup of italian players as our core, gazidis and eliot vision is to make money, so udinese business model is the way to go