View Full Version : Summer mercato 2009
Rossoneri Fuego
11-08-2009, 06:01
^^shows how much you know about football in general insulting sergio ramos, that guy would start spain's attacks in the euro's and trackback and defend i swear to god man i hope you think next time you make a such a comparison out of proportion,
Sergio Ramos >>> Maicon
What do you want? Sergio Ramos? Considering the current economic condition, buys like De Silvestri would be smart, especially when a deadweight like Oddo can be inserted..... You just admitted yourself that these players have more than enough potential to take a starting spot very soon......
Didn't Maldini once say that Ramos was his heir? :bri:
No, I don't want Ramos. As Christian said, he's too much like Janku - although I think he's quite a lot better than Marek, not worse. In any case he wouldn't be worth the price we'd have to pay.
But maybe we could've looked at someone like Rafinha (unsettled at Schalke). He's not Maldini either, but having seen him quite a few times (though not regularly) he seems sound at the back, and very capable going forward. Juve have been looking at him, I think - not that we should necessarily pay too much attention to the doings of Alessio Secco...
But him and Zambro covering the fullback positions, with Antonini and maybe de Silvestri as backups would be good, and very attainable if management had just a little ambition.
What we should've done was to hijack Roma's deal for Motta (with us being able to offer CL football and Roma not) and not mess up with the Cissokho deal. Then with a little luck our fullback situation could've been set for the next 10 years.
Revolver
11-08-2009, 06:07
Honestly, I don't think we need a LB so much, considering we have Antonini who's decent reliable LB, who can defend and at least participate in attacks, which is important because it makes width in our midfield. Side backs are the least important positions in a team. Just look at Juve's side backs. They have 4 of them, 3 of them are crap and one (De Ceglie) is not better than Antonini. Then, there's statistics. Manchester won Premier League and CL with crappy O'Shea, Inter won Scudetto last year with (overrated) Santon, Barca won La Liga and CL with Abidal and Silvinho at LB spot... We'll do well with Antonini.
With the money we would spend there, it's better to invest in a player who can cover Ronaldinho AND Seedorf because we don't have any decent player to do this. Di Gennaro is crap, and whatever any of you say, Abate is too. Hernanes would be a perfect fit, he even can be a starter ahead of Seedorf, and he's young and would be a direct Seedorf's replacement. He's very versatile too so he can replace Pirlo, Seedorf, or Ronaldinho. And, truth too be told, we are lacking replacements for every one of them. Van Der Vaart could be a cheaper option, but as I already pointed out, just as a Ronaldinho's replacement, not Seedorf's.
Rossoneri Fuego
11-08-2009, 06:08
Bale is 20 yrs old and the best teams in england are all scouting him it's natural,De Sylvestri is 19 i rather have 2 young guys in the back then loose every game by 3 goals with jakulovski or favalli and start blaming our goalkeeper or coach rather than actually acknowledge the fact that our wide backs are slower than turtles
^^shows how much you know about football in general insulting sergio ramos, that guy would start spain's attacks in the euro's and trackback and defend i swear to god man i hope you think next time you make a such a comparison out of proportion,
Sergio Ramos >>> Maicon
maicon is the best rb in the world(some may say dani alves too)..sergio ramos is peanuts compared to maicon..
Whoah, De Silvestre is 19? Great talent! We need a LB/RB who can easily play at CB if needed, or can adequately cover for Zambrotta if he is forced to play CB due to injury. P.S, where the hell has Albertazzi gone? Suddenly, MGT has lost confidence in him.....
Honestly, I don't think we need a LB so much, considering we have Antonini who's decent reliable LB, who can defend and at least participate in attacks, which is important because it makes width in our midfield. Side backs are the least important positions in a team. Just look at Juve's side backs. They have 4 of them, 3 of them are crap and one (De Ceglie) is not better than Antonini. Then, there's statistics. Manchester won Premier League and CL with crappy O'Shea, Inter won Scudetto last year with (overrated) Santon, Barca won La Liga and CL with Abidal and Silvinho at LB spot... We'll do well with Antonini.
With the money we would spend there, it's better to invest in a player who can cover Ronaldinho AND Seedorf because we don't have any decent player to do this. Di Gennaro is crap, and whatever any of you say, Abate is too. Hernanes would be a perfect fit, he even can be a starter ahead of Seedorf, and he's young and would be a direct Seedorf's replacement. He's very versatile too so he can replace Pirlo, Seedorf, or Ronaldinho. And, truth too be told, we are lacking replacements for every one of them. Van Der Vaart could be a cheaper option, but as I already pointed out, just as a Ronaldinho's replacement, not Seedorf's.
you have some good points there,but i think the examples of teams failing because of really bad full backs are a lot more than the aboves...:5ok:
the truth is that i am feeling each and every day better with antonini,he really impressed me in our preseason matches,and believe me i hardly get impressed..
the thing is i believe that the money should be spent for a wc dc,and then go for an amc(snejder maybe),i am really nervous about our defence issue(nesta out for 1 year now,ts=? for me,the rest of them=no comment),and the thing that annoys me most is that i dont see any concerns(gali,leo)on that..
Sergio Ramos has lost his shine in recent times (inconsistent, red cards), but has acheived ALOT at such a young age.... Maicon is supposedly in his prime. But still, let's not argue about that, bcs neither are coming to Mialn.... For me, DeSilvestri with Oddo inserted in the deal would be the best... Only problem is he is a RB, and Zambrotta is solid there. Suspect position is LB.....
Jay Crisp
11-08-2009, 06:28
Bale is 20 yrs old and the best teams in england are all scouting him it's natural,De Sylvestri is 19 i rather have 2 young guys in the back then loose every game by 3 goals with jakulovski or favalli and start blaming our goalkeeper or coach rather than actually acknowledge the fact that our wide backs are slower than turtles
DSilvestri is 21 not 19 and is a good player that could get better with time.
Bale is overratted like all british players its not his fault but he is not worth 13 million. Again he has talent but if he realises it is up to him.
Dutchie-Milan
11-08-2009, 06:31
De Silvestri is only 19?I thought he was 21 or something like that,now i really want him more!
I would be very happy if he came to us,whether Oddo leaves or not,i dont care,i really want him to join us,he is so talented that it is really stupid from Lazio to even consider selling him.Really stupid Lotito!
De Silvestri would be a upgrade from what we have,come on guys: Zambro,Oddo,Janku,Antonini,Albertazzi.
He is better then Oddo and Janku,thats for sure,he is further in his development then Albertazzi,Albertazzi could be turning out to be a better player then De Silvestri,but now he is better then our rookie.Only Zambro and maybe Antonini(not sure)are better or at the same level,so how could he be not a upgrade???
Dutchie-Milan
11-08-2009, 06:32
Bale is waaaaay to injury prone,and we dont need that kind of players,even IF Bale would be a great LB and 100% succes for us,he still isnt worth it because he will be out every week,especially in Serie A,where they play as hard as EPL.
but still, to convince jose mourinho (picky on targets) is more difficult to convince our previous coach and mgmt. i mean i don't only blame mgmt for our current situation but i also blame the coach, he never took care of his potential starters: Borriello, Gourcuff, Cardiciao?? i mean Ancelotti literally encouraged our management to go for 30+ players if he trusted more the youngsters, the mgmt would thought of investing in youngsters. i mean we lost the best play maker in the making a future golden ball winner, and we wasted more than 20 mil on borriello (8 transfer and salary difference for his old contract).
I blame Gourcuff. He started 18 games and subbed in 15 more during his first season in Milan. Carlo gave him every opportunity to prove himself that season and he did nothing to stand out from the crowd. I certainly saw nothing from him to make me think he's a future golden ball winner, whatever he might have accomplished in the inferior French league last year notwithstanding.
I don't know why so many Milan fans can't just let this Gourcuff thing go. He was very average in Milan and I don't recall there being any big uproar when Milan agreed to loan him to Bordeaux with a 15 million euro option to buy. Unless you (that's a collective "you," I'm not meaning to pick on you Lebanese) were outraged and were saying "My God! What is Milan doing?!!!!" at the time of the loan deal, I don't see how you can be so critical of Milan in this matter.
Personally, I hope Inter does buy him so we can see if he's suddenly become the next Kaka (hint: he's not) like so many Milan fans now seem to think based on what he did in France last year.
Dutchie-Milan
11-08-2009, 06:39
Fans are acting very girly on this forum for real IMO,by bashing MGT for letting Gorky go,because like Rick said,NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WHEN HE WAS LOANED WITH OPTION TO BUY TO FRANCE!!!!!1
He turned out to be the heir of Zidane,and suddenly everybody said it was stupid from MGT blablabla,very easy bashing and very pathetic.
He was pathetic with us,and played not consistent and not good,period,he showed some limps of talents,but so did Oddo....
He wasnt good enough and nobody,including myself,MGT and everybody else in the world and on this forum,expected that he would be doing such things in Ligue One.
It wasnt MGT fault,get over it.
ZvonimirBoban
11-08-2009, 06:46
but still, to convince jose mourinho (picky on targets) is more difficult to convince our previous coach and mgmt. i mean i don't only blame mgmt for our current situation but i also blame the coach, he never took care of his potential starters: Borriello, Gourcuff, Cardiciao?? i mean Ancelotti literally encouraged our management to go for 30+ players if he trusted more the youngsters, the mgmt would thought of investing in youngsters. i mean we lost the best play maker in the making a future golden ball winner, and we wasted more than 20 mil on borriello (8 transfer and salary difference for his old contract).
Gourcuff is a future balon d'or winner? Ha. Will never happened, trust me, I think that's too much for him.
@Saliwonczyk: friend, that's a nice info, but would you use another thread for it, not "SUMMER MERCATO"? we have plenty of threads here, you can use one of them or make a new one.
I blame Gourcuff. He started 18 games and subbed in 15 more during his first season in Milan. Carlo gave him every opportunity to prove himself that season and he did nothing to stand out from the crowd. I certainly saw nothing from him to make me think he's a future golden ball winner, whatever he might have accomplished in the inferior French league last year notwithstanding.
I don't know why so many Milan fans can't just let this Gourcuff thing go. He was very average in Milan and I don't recall there being any big uproar when Milan agreed to loan him to Bordeaux with a 15 million euro option to buy. Unless you (that's a collective "you," I'm not meaning to pick on you Lebanese) were outraged and were saying "My God! What is Milan doing?!!!!" at the time of the loan deal, I don't see how you can be so critical of Milan in this matter.
Personally, I hope Inter does buy him so we can see if he's suddenly become the next Kaka (hint: he's not) like so many Milan fans now seem to think based on what he did in France last year.
Fans are acting very girly on this forum for real IMO,by bashing MGT for letting Gorky go,because like Rick said,NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WHEN HE WAS LOANED WITH OPTION TO BUY TO FRANCE!!!!!1
He turned out to be the heir of Zidane,and suddenly everybody said it was stupid from MGT blablabla,very easy bashing and very pathetic.
He was pathetic with us,and played not consistent and not good,period,he showed some limps of talents,but so did Oddo....
He wasnt good enough and nobody,including myself,MGT and everybody else in the world and on this forum,expected that he would be doing such things in Ligue One.
It wasnt MGT fault,get over it.
Rick and Dutchie, I applaud you two. You two hit the point clearly.
Rick and Dutchie, I applaud you two. You two hit the point clearly.
Thank you, my friend. :cheers:
Damn. I was just at another Milan forum where I lurk but rarely post and some nincompoop actually said that losing Gourcuff was worse than losing Kaka. :v46:
I blame Gourcuff. He started 18 games and subbed in 15 more during his first season in Milan. Carlo gave him every opportunity to prove himself that season and he did nothing to stand out from the crowd. I certainly saw nothing from him to make me think he's a future golden ball winner, whatever he might have accomplished in the inferior French league last year notwithstanding.
I think 15 minutes in every second game is hardly "every opportunity to prove himself". You need a stretch of full games to do that. Something a underperforming Seedorf always got. Really, what did Seedorf show that Gourcuff didn't? Gourcuff began brightly was good sometimes, but never was trusted in any way. He never got any kind of consistancy.
Carlo almost never gave trust to young players, which was kind of sad.
what you dont seem to get or you just cant handle is that,even after the clause we could have stayed close to gorky all year long,and make him feel important..
then whatever his clause was,he would have prefer to rejoin us,thats where i blame the management i am not blaming them for letting him on loan or even for putting the clause in his contract..
he preferd bordeux not because of the clause or the money,but because he felt important for them..
Fans are acting very girly on this forum for real IMO,by bashing MGT for letting Gorky go,because like Rick said,NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WHEN HE WAS LOANED WITH OPTION TO BUY TO FRANCE!!!!!1
A lot of people complained about a to low buy out clause (you have to have one when you loan to France) and said it would come and bite our ass. Now it has done just that and one year from now some big club will buy him for the €20M that he has written in his contract.
what you dont seem to get or you just cant handle is that,even after the clause we could have stayed close to gorky all year long,and make him feel important..
then whatever his clause was,he would have prefer to rejoin us,thats where i blame the management i am not blaming them for letting him on loan or even for putting the clause in his contract..
he preferd bordeux not because of the clause or the money,but because he felt important for them..
Gourcuff is the most paid player in France if I'm not wrong, Gourcuff told the medias that Ambrosini called him sometimes, he also told after his meeting with Leonardo that they wanted him to be one of our main players even if there is no guarantee of being a starter in Milan with the quality of everyone, Gourcuff asked to Bordeaux a clause to leave next year, I don't remember if this clause has been put on the contract but I'm pretty sure that the guy will leave next year ...
So Gourcuff didn't stay for money if you want (despite what I said before), he didn't stay there because of the clause, but he didn't stay because he felt he was important, to me, the guy just took the best choice for his international career ... being the main player of a top club in France (but a club that isn't a top club in Europe), just to shine and then keep his place in the French NT ... nothing more, nothing less.
Gio-mania
11-08-2009, 07:58
Kalac out, possibly to Parma.
Monaco's Gk Roma in.
http://www.sportmediaset.it/mercato/articoli/articolo25717.shtml
A lot of people complained about a to low buy out clause (you have to have one when you loan to France) and said it would come and bite our ass. Now it has done just that and one year from now some big club will buy him for the €20M that he has written in his contract.
No you don't have to have one ...
Filipéz 182
11-08-2009, 08:01
Fans are acting very girly on this forum for real IMO,by bashing MGT for letting Gorky go,because like Rick said,NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WHEN HE WAS LOANED WITH OPTION TO BUY TO FRANCE!!!!!1
this aint true! At least on devilsmania most people (like me) thought he shouldve got way more chances!! and if he would be loaned it should definetly NOT include an option to buy, and cerainly not a 15m buy out clause!
everybody could see the kid had qualities, but carlo only played him for like 10-15mins. even brocchi got more chances as AM than gourcuff...
ZvonimirBoban
11-08-2009, 08:10
@Rick: you're welcome, it was nothing... heheh... let Merda buy him for 20M or something bigger and we will see whose laugh is the last laugh. Why cry over spilt milk?
ZvonimirBoban
11-08-2009, 08:12
Kalac out, possibly to Parma.
Monaco's Gk Roma in.
http://www.sportmediaset.it/mercato/articoli/articolo25717.shtml
Roma is only slightly better than Kalac or Dida...
^ Why would we need a keeper in return?
Visiting the Gourcuff thing again, he shouldn't even have been loaned, doesn't really matter how many posted about that or not. Before he came here he was already known and recognized as a big prospect and I am sure Geo-Tav is right about the buyout clause, by the way....any way back to mercato, I hope we see some more attacking/creative mid rumours at least.
hany.Egypt
11-08-2009, 08:13
Fans are acting very girly on this forum for real IMO,by bashing MGT for letting Gorky go,because like Rick said,NOBODY SAID ANYTHING WHEN HE WAS LOANED WITH OPTION TO BUY TO FRANCE!!!!!1
First it's ridiculous to say other members '' are acting girly '' just because you disagree with them not to mention its sexism as well.
Many of us we screaming that Gorky has the talent, Gorky has potintials, Gorky is young, Gorky deserves more playing time and he certainly offers much more than Emerson and Brocchi who play ahead of him, the fact that you don't remember that doesn't mean it did not happen, search carefully before putting words in other members mouth or claiming the did not say something said hunderd times just because you did not here it.
I havent bashed the management for selling Gourcuff (Not recently anyway), but its funny how some posters here decide to view things the way you like.
Firstly, it simply isnt the case that people "suddenly" started to rate Gourcuff as a big prospect. When the news was first announced many of us applauded the loan deal as a chance for him to grow and come back to Milan.
Secondly, it wasnt clear to us at the time that there was a buyout clause. During the season, when Galliani kept vomitting out the fact that there was a buy-out close, we spent the remainder of the season saying how we would like to see him come back.
Thirdly, some of us actually bothered to stream Bordeux matches and we saw a palyer that quite literally dragged his team towards the championship. Something our squad could have done with.
**EDIT** Oh and this player from an inferior league has become a crucial part of the french national side, turning their qualifying fortunes round!
Fourth, As far as calling the French league inferior, players such as Drogba and essien have come from that same 'inferior' league and are now two of the strongest players around. I bet none of you would have complained had we signed Benzema from that inferior league too.
Fifthly, Gourcuff was given chances in his first season. There were occassions he impressed and times when he didnt. This is not unusual for a young player. He was also content that he would be given more oppertunities in his second seasons as displayed by his interviews and the fact he didnt leave then. About his second season, go and check how many games he started and then tell us if you think that was enough oppertunity. I think you will find it was a ridicuously low amount of starts.
Sixth, about Gourcuff as a player. He isnt a 'Kaka'. He doesnt rely on his pace as Kaka does. It is all about movement, first touch and constant desire to move the ball around. A traditional playmaker if you like. This is a very technical and mature position so it is not inconceivable that a player of this type may take a season or two to come good. So please save us from your 'All knowing predictions of the kid's future'.
Seventh, please dont try and tell us that we didnt predict what he would do in Ligue 1. He came to Milan with the tag of 'New Zidane'. He scored on his CL debut. Berlusconi was swooning over him after his first trainign session. Ancelotti was forced to admit he has done well at Bordeux. When we sent him away alot of us we hoping for the kind of performances we saw. The one thing that none of expected was to actually lose him wheb we saw those performances.
Time will tell, but in the mean time no Milan fan should feel the need to apologise to another set of fans. If there are fans here that dont appreciate the way Galliani is conducting business then it is their perogative to 'complain', 'whine', 'b!itch', 'moan' or however else you like to describe it!
No you don't have to have one ...
For a years time I heard people write that, although I never seen an actually ruling on it. Would be doubly retarded by our poor management if we added that if it was not compulsory.
For a years time I heard people write that, although I never seen an actually ruling on it. Would be doubly retarded by our poor management if we added that if it was not compulsory.
I said sometimes here that you don't have to put a clause in a loan deal with French clubs and I gave examples like Morientes and Saviola who were loaned some years ago in Monaco and Monaco at the end of their deal never managed to agree on a price ... as there were no set price at start, so no clause.
About Gourcuff, it was clear that the plans were:
- a loan to allow him to play regularly and show what he is worth
- a clause to sell him to this club if he shows some good things but isn't great, allowing us to make some cash for an average player
Our problem is that he turned to be a very good player ...
Also I think Bordeaux played well in the negotiations and probably asked for this clause in the deal. We wanted to loan him in Ligue 1, but not in a minor club, we wanted to loan him probably in one of the clubs where he could have played some CL games, so it was Bordeaux, Lyon or Marseille, no other club. Lyon already had too many players so, even if they wanted him, there was no sure place for him in the starting XI, Marseille plays in a formation where Gourcuff has no place (wingers), and so it was Bordeaux or nothing ...
Anyway, it is past now, I don't think that discussing about the past all the time (because we spoke about that for a lot of time here and on the Gourcuff topic) is interesting.
Revolver
11-08-2009, 09:08
you have some good points there,but i think the examples of teams failing because of really bad full backs are a lot more than the aboves...:5ok:
the truth is that i am feeling each and every day better with antonini,he really impressed me in our preseason matches,and believe me i hardly get impressed..
the thing is i believe that the money should be spent for a wc dc,and then go for an amc(snejder maybe),i am really nervous about our defence issue(nesta out for 1 year now,ts=? for me,the rest of them=no comment),and the thing that annoys me most is that i dont see any concerns(gali,leo)on that..
That's the point, Antonini actually isn't bad full back. Neither are Abidal, Santon, etc, buy they're worst players in their respective teams. About the defense, I think there's no concerns because Nesta has recovered well. After seeing him in pre-season matches, I believe that, he was great. I really don't know why Leonardo is insisting on a full back, when it's clear that Berlusconi is willing to spend further on just one player, and we have only 3 creative players in the squad and they all are starters. But I'm starting to believe that he will go with Ambrosini instead Seedorf (why promoting player as a captain if he'll sit on the bench?), so he could play his full backs further upfront which will make the team more dangerous on the counter. So that leaves Seedorf as a cover. I don't like the team without Seedorf in it but Leonardo is very well paid for his job, so he knows best.
The comments posted on Gourcuff make me a bit sad given our current situation.
Home from a hard and rough days work, and still nothing new on the market.
But hey! Ho! a message to reply to! Hurray!
I'm sorry, but this is really inappropriate and immature. How can you read someone's post and decide whether or not they truly love the team and are "true" fans? And BTW, who are you to be accusing others of not knowing enough about football?
People have different opinions, if you don't agree with someone, then accept it as a difference of opinion, there's no need to be passing personal judgements.
rt, for one thing, the conversation I had with Filipéz ended like 3 pages back (to your post at least). I've already accepted that he portrays himself to be a fan who doesn't rate our elder players based on their recent performances and not their past history. For me, it was over and I'd already started ignoring him the minute he started cussing. In my opinion, thats already appropriate and mature enough of a response for him. You may think otherwise, but thats your opinion.
You ask me how I can formulate an opinion of someone based on what he writes? I ask you, how can I NOT?
I don't know him personally, and I don't feel I have an obligation to either. So I base my impressions and responses on what people post up on the forum. Whats so wrong with that??? He comes out with a post slanting a player we've had on our books for nearly a decade, whose won everything with and for us that there is to be won. I'm not a big fan of the current Kaladze, but as a poster on this forum, I would expect that I have my own right to take offense. Thats my right. The way I react to that post is also up to me. I'm not as submissive as you as in that I have to accept everything that I don't like quietly. That too is my right.
You talk about me passing personal judgment? Oh, thats fresh, from someone who just came by and called me immature and inappropriate for having a difference in opinion with someone, who I might add, has nothing to do with you, rt. The conversation was between me and Filipéz. You butting in three pages after everything has been settled just portrays you to be a busybody and a hypocrite who enjoys picking fights with other people. Seriously, this had nothing to do with you in the first place, unless you're like Filipézs' closet lover or something, so why bother butting in at all? Real mature, man, real mature....
The things I say may offend you, but, seriously, I'm entitled to my own opinion and my own impression of you (which is none too good right now), and if you really do feel offended, I don't give a rats @ss, because you butting into someone else's conversation just goes to show how "mature" you are. In my humble opinion, you totally deserved being told off. :devf::devf::devf:
I think 15 minutes in every second game is hardly "every opportunity to prove himself". You need a stretch of full games to do that. Something a underperforming Seedorf always got. Really, what did Seedorf show that Gourcuff didn't? Gourcuff began brightly was good sometimes, but never was trusted in any way. He never got any kind of consistancy.
Carlo almost never gave trust to young players, which was kind of sad.
He started 18 frickin' games. At one point he started and played the full 90 minutes in six straight games. He did nothing to justify keeping him in the lineup. And if you couldn't see that Seedorf was a superior player to Gourcuff in the 2006-07 season, then I just don't know what to say to you.
ACMILAN1983
11-08-2009, 10:28
Ryo, while I don't really want to get involved with your arguments with others, your posts are going way off topic. Regarding your argument with Filipez, clearly you don't appreciate his viewpoint which is fine, but you did make personal comments about him which you should be aware are against the forum rules. Rt9 didn't make personal arguments against you, as his post implies your behaviour at the time of replying to Filipez was immature.
Whilst I'm not in a position to really force you to do this, I will ask you to please take your personal differences with others into private conversation, rather than writing long posts here when it's got nothing to do with the topic.
Some people like Gorky, some don't..and that's normal, we all have different opinions.
But,
Losing a player that is a starter in a French National team is a bad move, no matter how well some people think they can see the future
Gilardinho is the starter for Italian national team, so freaking what?
Nobody is crying over his departure.
Filipéz 182
11-08-2009, 11:05
Ryo, while I don't really want to get involved with your arguments with others, your posts are going way off topic. Regarding your argument with Filipez, clearly you don't appreciate his viewpoint which is fine, but you did make personal comments about him which you should be aware are against the forum rules. Rt9 didn't make personal arguments against you, as his post implies your behaviour at the time of replying to Filipez was immature.
Whilst I'm not in a position to really force you to do this, I will ask you to please take your personal differences with others into private conversation, rather than writing long posts here when it's got nothing to do with the topic.
for me its OK, and I hope its the same for Ryo, I'll just ignore his post, even when I really want to reply on his last post but I wont, I just wont stop that way. I only want to add that rt9 hasnt said anything wrong and also deserves respect, like any member here!
rt9, some people are only here to bash people and pretend to be better than everyone, its not worth replying anymore :)
Lets discuss Milan again, and just ignore those 'sad' words.
ontopic again! Ole! :D
Very little transfer news the last few days, I really thought we would close in on de silvestri, but so far nothing. He's maybe not the perfect choice but he for sure is talented, I remember him playing a good game against us. I've seen him like 5/6 times and he always impressed me, thought he's fallen back recently. but I hope we can get the best out of him again.
He's the better option over Bale!
I havent bashed the management for selling Gourcuff (Not recently anyway), but its funny how some posters here decide to view things the way you like.
Firstly, it simply isnt the case that people "suddenly" started to rate Gourcuff as a big prospect. When the news was first announced many of us applauded the loan deal as a chance for him to grow and come back to Milan.
Secondly, it wasnt clear to us at the time that there was a buyout clause. During the season, when Galliani kept vomitting out the fact that there was a buy-out close, we spent the remainder of the season saying how we would like to see him come back.
Thirdly, some of us actually bothered to stream Bordeux matches and we saw a palyer that quite literally dragged his team towards the championship. Something our squad could have done with.
**EDIT** Oh and this player from an inferior league has become a crucial part of the french national side, turning their qualifying fortunes round!
Fourth, As far as calling the French league inferior, players such as Drogba and essien have come from that same 'inferior' league and are now two of the strongest players around. I bet none of you would have complained had we signed Benzema from that inferior league too.
Fifthly, Gourcuff was given chances in his first season. There were occassions he impressed and times when he didnt. This is not unusual for a young player. He was also content that he would be given more oppertunities in his second seasons as displayed by his interviews and the fact he didnt leave then. About his second season, go and check how many games he started and then tell us if you think that was enough oppertunity. I think you will find it was a ridicuously low amount of starts.
Sixth, about Gourcuff as a player. He isnt a 'Kaka'. He doesnt rely on his pace as Kaka does. It is all about movement, first touch and constant desire to move the ball around. A traditional playmaker if you like. This is a very technical and mature position so it is not inconceivable that a player of this type may take a season or two to come good. So please save us from your 'All knowing predictions of the kid's future'.
Seventh, please dont try and tell us that we didnt predict what he would do in Ligue 1. He came to Milan with the tag of 'New Zidane'. He scored on his CL debut. Berlusconi was swooning over him after his first trainign session. Ancelotti was forced to admit he has done well at Bordeux. When we sent him away alot of us we hoping for the kind of performances we saw. The one thing that none of expected was to actually lose him wheb we saw those performances.
Time will tell, but in the mean time no Milan fan should feel the need to apologise to another set of fans. If there are fans here that dont appreciate the way Galliani is conducting business then it is their perogative to 'complain', 'whine', 'b!itch', 'moan' or however else you like to describe it!
Just a few comments:
If you think the French league is not inferior to Serie A, then I don't know what to say to you.
And there have been as many "new Zidanes" as there have been "new Maradonas."
The truth is (and you can go back to the 2006 summer mercato thread and see) that most posters had barely heard of the guy and nobody was really jumping for joy at his signing (I was probably one of his biggest backers, noting at one point that if he realized his potential people wouldn't look back on the 2006 mercato as such a disaster). Gourcuff didn't at all make up for the frustration of that scandal-driven mercato. So don't go acting like everyone thought he was going to be great shakes when he first came to Milan. He was an excellent prospect and nothing more.
I knew the loan deal had a buyout clause from the very beginning. Why didn't you?
What Gourcuff did at Bordeaux last year and anything he might do in the future -- even if he wins 10 golden balls in a row! -- is completely immaterial. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity he had at Milan and he did very little, actually, when he was here. So Milan didn't really lose anything in this deal. They made money off a player who couldn't cut it when he had the opportunity.
B1tching and whining and moaning about Gourcuff isn't going to bring him back. You'll be doing yourself a favor if you learn to live with it.
Filipéz 182
11-08-2009, 11:09
He started 18 frickin' games. At one point he started and played the full 90 minutes in six straight games. He did nothing to justify keeping him in the lineup. And if you couldn't see that Seedorf was a superior player to Gourcuff in the 2006-07 season, then I just don't know what to say to you.
gourcuff did get his chance in his first season here! and he did OK. nothing more, but you could see the kid was extremely talented, not showing it allways but you could see he had great potential.
in his second season though he was pretty bad, but it was (also) Carlo's fault. Carlo and gourcuff seem to have a bad relation and Carlo only played the kid sometimes in the last mins of a game. I remember Brocchi being picked over gourcuff as attacking midfielder, that says enough...
I also think leo really wanted him back but gourcuff decided different, and I dont blame him, a WC is coming up and at bordeaux he's the man and he's in a team were he performs great! so this way he'll probably keep his place in the french national team, while coming back to milan wouldve been a gamble for him. Its sad we lost him but life goes on!! If we can sign hernanes I would be totally over him!
Some people like Gorky, some don't..and that's normal, we all have different opinions.
But,
Losing a player that is a starter in a French National team is a bad move, no matter how well some people think they can see the future
Why, then, do you seem to have the expectation that Milan should have been able to see the future and know that a player who had not taken advantage of his opportunities in Milan would go on to have the season Gourcuff did last year for Bordeaux? The loan deal with the option to buy was signed before he had played a single game for Bordeaux. Not a single person on the planet thought Gourcuff would have the season he did. Anyone who claims they did is a liar.
And I don't recall any of us who aren't frantic over the "loss" of Gourcuff saying that he can't have a bright future. In fact, those who seem to think they have a crystal ball are the ones who make claims such as "future golden ball winner" in relation to the player.
For the record, I like Gourcuff a lot. I always did. I was one of the pro-Gourcuff posters here when others didn't see him as a significant signing. But the fact is that he didn't do much to seize his opportunity while he was here. Maybe he just wasn't the right player for Milan or wasn't right for Carlo's system. But facts are facts. And it seems silly to me to expend so much effort complaining over the departure of a player who didn't do much while he was here. Hell, you might as well complain about Patrick Viera.
Blacktop
11-08-2009, 11:27
Kalac out, possibly to Parma.
Monaco's Gk Roma in.
http://www.sportmediaset.it/mercato/articoli/articolo25717.shtml
We don't need another GK. With Kalac (possibly) leaving, our ranks are still full.
As I said, everyone has their own opinion.
I like Gorky too and I too was happy to see him on loan to acquire some experience, but I didn't know he had a buy out clause.
I resend our mgmt not bringing him back and I believe they could if they wanted to.
gourcuff did get his chance in his first season here! and he did OK. nothing more, but you could see the kid was extremely talented, not showing it allways but you could see he had great potential.
in his second season though he was pretty bad, but it was (also) Carlo's fault. Carlo and gourcuff seem to have a bad relation and Carlo only played the kid sometimes in the last mins of a game. I remember Brocchi being picked over gourcuff as attacking midfielder, that says enough...
I also think leo really wanted him back but gourcuff decided different, and I dont blame him, a WC is coming up and at bordeaux he's the man and he's in a team were he performs great! so this way he'll probably keep his place in the french national team, while coming back to milan wouldve been a gamble for him. Its sad we lost him but life goes on!! If we can sign hernanes I would be totally over him!
Well, that's the thing. As I had just written in my response to Fret, he didn't seem to be the right player for Milan or at least for Carlo's system. But Carlo did give him plenty of opportunities in his first season. I don't blame Gourcuff at all for wanting to leave or for not coming back because he didn't play much in his second season and every player wants to be at a place where they can play (I only blame him for not doing more to take advantage of his opportunities). Going to Bordeaux was obviously the right move for Gourcuff. I think he did the right thing for himself by not coming back to Milan (even with Leonardo as the new coach). But how can Carlo or the Milan management be blamed for sending him there? When the loan deal was made, nobody knew that the past season would be Carlo's last at Milan and that he would be moving the Chelsea. So why should Milan go to great lengths to keep a player who was not in the coach's plans and who hadn't played well when he was here? I know some will say that at least Milan should have gotten more for him, but honestly 15 million euros in last year's market for a player who had accomplished little or nothing was a pretty damned good price. It's just that with Real Madrid's spending spree and the ridiculous nature of this summer's market, people's perceptions of player values have changed and they're projecting this year's values (and the past season's performance) onto a deal that was struck a year ago.
Rick, my friend.......
How many of these players seemed right for Milan: Brocchi, Emerson, Seedorf, Oddo :1d31: Jankulovski, Ibrahim Ba, Ronaldo?
Just a few comments:
If you think the French league is not inferior to Serie A, then I don't know what to say to you.
Rick Rick Rick, its funny how you always try to interpret other peoples views differently fromt he way they were intended. My examples make it clear the French league is capable of producing world class playerswho are ready for big teams in the so called stronger leagues. And if you aregoing to back up the arguments that I was trying to counter, then that would suggest you believe Milan shouldnt sign players who have done well in inferior leagues. And if thats what you are saying, "I dont know what to say to you".
And there have been as many "new Zidanes" as there have been "new Maradonas."
New Maradonnas - Saviolla, Riquelme, Messi, Aimar, Ortega, Lavezzi, Aguero.
5 of those players would have got into our side in their peak.
That is a list of 7 players described as the new Maradonna. You said there are as many 'new Zidanes'. Can you name them please. the only one I can think of other than Gourcuff is Ribery who would also get into the Milan side.
The truth is (and you can go back to the 2006 summer mercato thread and see) that most posters had barely heard of the guy and nobody was really jumping for joy at his signing (I was probably one of his biggest backers, noting at one point that if he realized his potential people wouldn't look back on the 2006 mercato as such a disaster). Gourcuff didn't at all make up for the frustration of that scandal-driven mercato. So don't go acting like everyone thought he was going to be great shakes when he first came to Milan. He was an excellent prospect and nothing more.
Again, you know very well I wasnt claiming to predict the future. But I was happy as most that Milan had signed a young talented player. And let me remind you that once he had signed, there were people posting about his performances against Lyon (An excellent side in the CL at the time). And we had some pretty impressive clips to get excited about. After watching Kaka blossom at Milan, we had enough reason to hope for Gourcuff to develop too.
I knew the loan deal had a buyout clause from the very beginning. Why didn't you?
I dont know, maybe you date Galliani? Again, its funny how you ignore my mention about the fact that Milan didnt do enough to keep him even after giving a buyout clause.
What Gourcuff did at Bordeaux last year and anything he might do in the future -- even if he wins 10 golden balls in a row! -- is completely immaterial. He didn't take advantage of the opportunity he had at Milan and he did very little, actually, when he was here. So Milan didn't really lose anything in this deal. They made money off a player who couldn't cut it when he had the opportunity.
I find it amazing how you think "anything he might do in the future" is immaterial. The whole point of signing young players is what they will do in the future. But again you obviously didnt understand my points about him being ready for Milan now and proving this with his performances for Bordeaux and France.
B1tching and whining and moaning about Gourcuff isn't going to bring him back. You'll be doing yourself a favor if you learn to live with it.
Rick, I didnt go through years of education to believe everything I was told by the likes of you or Galliani. If I dont like something then I will say it.
And I find it extremely ironic and hypocritical for people to come on here and 'b!tch' and 'moan' at people who they think are 'b!tching' and 'moaning'.
You could do your self a favour and either ignore our 'b!tching' and 'moaning' or reply without 'bitching', 'moaning' or trying to enforce your opinions on us or even better using the phrase "I dont know what to say to you" right before you write a zillions sentences in your reply!
And I don't recall any of us who aren't frantic over the "loss" of Gourcuff saying that he can't have a bright future. In fact, those who seem to think they have a crystal ball are the ones who make claims such as "future golden ball winner" in relation to the player.
As you seem to have put yuor self into a little clique. Some members of your clique wantinter to sign him so he fails and funnily wnough they rate him at 20m.
And by the way, you dont need a crystal ball to see what he has done to stop Lyons domination in France and the way he plays for the French national side.
Home from a hard and rough days work, and still nothing new on the market.
But hey! Ho! a message to reply to! Hurray!
rt, for one thing, the conversation I had with Filipéz ended like 3 pages back (to your post at least). I've already accepted that he portrays himself to be a fan who doesn't rate our elder players based on their recent performances and not their past history. For me, it was over and I'd already started ignoring him the minute he started cussing. In my opinion, thats already appropriate and mature enough of a response for him. You may think otherwise, but thats your opinion.
You ask me how I can formulate an opinion of someone based on what he writes? I ask you, how can I NOT?
I don't know him personally, and I don't feel I have an obligation to either. So I base my impressions and responses on what people post up on the forum. Whats so wrong with that??? He comes out with a post slanting a player we've had on our books for nearly a decade, whose won everything with and for us that there is to be won. I'm not a big fan of the current Kaladze, but as a poster on this forum, I would expect that I have my own right to take offense. Thats my right. The way I react to that post is also up to me. I'm not as submissive as you as in that I have to accept everything that I don't like quietly. That too is my right.
You talk about me passing personal judgment? Oh, thats fresh, from someone who just came by and called me immature and inappropriate for having a difference in opinion with someone, who I might add, has nothing to do with you, rt. The conversation was between me and Filipéz. You butting in three pages after everything has been settled just portrays you to be a busybody and a hypocrite who enjoys picking fights with other people. Seriously, this had nothing to do with you in the first place, unless you're like Filipézs' closet lover or something, so why bother butting in at all? Real mature, man, real mature....
The things I say may offend you, but, seriously, I'm entitled to my own opinion and my own impression of you (which is none too good right now), and if you really do feel offended, I don't give a rats @ss, because you butting into someone else's conversation just goes to show how "mature" you are. In my humble opinion, you totally deserved being told off. :devf::devf::devf:
Ryo, while I don't really want to get involved with your arguments with others, your posts are going way off topic. Regarding your argument with Filipez, clearly you don't appreciate his viewpoint which is fine, but you did make personal comments about him which you should be aware are against the forum rules. Rt9 didn't make personal arguments against you, as his post implies your behaviour at the time of replying to Filipez was immature.
Whilst I'm not in a position to really force you to do this, I will ask you to please take your personal differences with others into private conversation, rather than writing long posts here when it's got nothing to do with the topic.
Ryo,
I don't want to make it look like there is an "anti-Ryo" league here (there isn't), as I always value the existence of different views. But I have to agree with some members here in that you might have over done it a little bit once in a while. Some of your posts, while still very enjoyable to read, concern me as I can clearly see personal attack from you. I can also see that you try to voice them in a light-hearted and humorous way, but personal attack is still personal attack, and it is against the forum rule. This is a "family-like" forum, and the admins and mods have made great efforts in keeping it like this. I happen to like it very much, and I am sure that you will enjoy the company of many fellow milanistas' different opinions, as insane some of them might sound. But be polite, tolerant, respectful, and appreciative. Be in Rome, do what Romans do, right? :)
Sorry for off-topic, and I am going to butt out now. :tong:
Ryo,
I don't want to make it look like there is an "anti-Ryo" league here (there isn't), as I always value the existence of different views. But I have to agree with some members here in that you might have over done it a little bit once in a while. Some of your posts, while still very enjoyable to read, concern me as I can clearly see personal attack from you. I can also see that you try to voice them in a light-hearted and humorous way, but personal attack is still personal attack, and it is against the forum rule. This is a "family-like" forum, and the admins and mods have made great efforts in keeping it like this. I happen to like it very much, and I am sure that you will enjoy the company of many fellow milanistas' different opinions, as insane some of them might sound. But be polite, tolerant, respectful, and appreciative. Be in Rome, do what Romans do, right? :)
Sorry for off-topic, and I am going to butt out now. :tong:
No, no, its perfectly alright when the response is one that is formulated in the way you put it. Respect is due to those who give it. Bringing up a long-forgotten arguement when both parties had already resolved it in their own way, however, is just in my opinion, both a waste of time and shows little respect. My way of retaliation may be seen by some as over done, but I stand by what I said. Everyone has as much right to their own opinions and impressions as anyone else on this forum.
That said, back to the topic at hand...
Warro Bantan
11-08-2009, 12:34
Thanks Xudong, good point.
I am not here to take sides, but to ask that we keep this thread on-topic...Gourcuff is in the past...unless we have some rumor linking him to a return to Milan (and not Intert) then, discussions pertaining to him have no place in the mercato thread.
If you guys want to discuss him, then I am sure there is a thread in the Players section, or if not, do it by private message.
He is no longer a player of Milan, and unless some miracle happens, he wont be coming back to play for us.
Enough on Gorky already.
rosoneri_11
11-08-2009, 12:41
From: http://goal.com/en/news/10/italy/200...ac-milan-agent
Tottenham Hotspur Full-Back Gareth Bale Would Love Milan Move - Agent
The Welsh left-back is a wanted man at Milanello, but there has been no official contact - yet...
7 Aug 2009 19:16:44
After completing the signing of Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, the Rossoneri are turning their attentions to their full-backs. While much press speculation has been focused on their right-back, where Lorenzo De Silvestri is thought to be the first choice to rival Gianluca Zambrotta, Milan are also looking at a replacement for Marek Jankulovski.
Attention has now turned once again to Tottenham Hotspur's Gareth Bale, and the player's representative has admitted that the Welshman would love to move to Milan.
"It's true, the player likes Milan but for the moment no official offer has arrived for him," Peppino Tirri told calciomercato.it.
"Many coaches are a fan of Bale, [Tottenham manager Harry] Redknapp included. Unsellable? In today's market there is no such thing as an unsellable player.
"However, no offer has come in, we have not talked about it [a transfer] with Tottenham, nor of his price. That said, I think that the figures circulating [in the press amounting to €12-15m] are correct."
Bale is still only 20-years-old but has endured a difficult time due to injuries and low confidence at White Hart Lane, having signed for Spurs in 2007.
Lebanese
11-08-2009, 12:45
Gourcuff is the most paid player in France if I'm not wrong, Gourcuff told the medias that Ambrosini called him sometimes, he also told after his meeting with Leonardo that they wanted him to be one of our main players even if there is no guarantee of being a starter in Milan with the quality of everyone, Gourcuff asked to Bordeaux a clause to leave next year, I don't remember if this clause has been put on the contract but I'm pretty sure that the guy will leave next year ...
So Gourcuff didn't stay for money if you want (despite what I said before), he didn't stay there because of the clause, but he didn't stay because he felt he was important, to me, the guy just took the best choice for his international career ... being the main player of a top club in France (but a club that isn't a top club in Europe), just to shine and then keep his place in the French NT ... nothing more, nothing less.
Geo watch out for what you say, you will turn out to have a girly attitude, just like me.
Milano84
11-08-2009, 12:47
True, but I think that the point was that he still deserves respect for what he has done, especially considering what he's been through with his brother and all.
Everyone gets old, wether they have a big contract or not is more down to the management than anyone else. Still every player that has achieved what Kaladze has with us, deserve at least the respect that we don't give him obscene names etc. no matter how poor he has been doing recently.
Anyway, I think most fans would agree that Kaladze can no longer perform at Milan level. Would be a good deal for him to I'd think, if he could move to Bayern where he is apparently wanted.
i dont think i said anything disrespectful. SSaying we need to sell kaladze isnt disrespectful. Its my opinion and its fair critism.
if you think this is disrespectful whats the point of a forum???
I understand what you mean with people going F--- KALADZE, Peice of S--- etc etc. Thats unnecessary
ZvonimirBoban
11-08-2009, 12:48
Warro, I understand your point and I respect that but I can't stand not to reply about this now. Just this one, please, and I will stop.
As you seem to have put yuor self into a little clique. Some members of your clique wantinter to sign him so he fails and funnily wnough they rate him at 20m.
SO WHAT?
Milano84
11-08-2009, 12:48
hold it right there, kala still a veteran defender with loads of experience. albertazzi is still a rookie
and thats the problem w/ an OLDER squad.... older players demand more because in all jobs, you are paid on your resume not your potential.
i'm not saying we need to do an arsenal by any means... but deep squad spots like 5th cb, 3rd gk or last choice striker should go to a young players not old pensioners
ZvonimirBoban
11-08-2009, 12:49
I hope we see some more attacking/creative mid rumours at least.
So far, Fabregas and Hernanes. (You asked rumor, aren't you? :delol:)
Milano84
11-08-2009, 12:51
If we're going to strengthen the fullback positions - which we must - then there's no point in talking about players like Bale, de Silvestri, Drenthe, Dossena etc. Those players wouldn't improve anything (as starters). De Silvestri and maybe Bale would be decent back-ups and in the future could turn out to be Milan starting XI material.
i personally would LOVE de silvestri and bale over most any others. Zambrotta is only 32, he has a couple years left and as he fades these youngsters will grow. both have world class potential but r green. Gone r the days milan can buy a 'star' really..... we need to be looking at up and comers.
Samaldinho
11-08-2009, 12:52
K77SH,
Rick was not saying that a player who does well in France is incapable of doing well in Serie A. However, so far, Gourcuff has done poorly in Serie A, and has done well in Ligue 1. Many players have done great in Ligue 1 but not in Serie A, or the Prem, or La Liga. That is the issue, Gorky, might be great in Ligue 1, but he has, so far, done terrible where it matters for Milan, in Serie A.
Saviola has no business anywhere near Milan. Nor Riquelme. Saviola and Riquelme were never good enough for Milan in their "primes," Riquelme in his "prime" was never good enough to overtake Pirlo. Aimar? Maybe, just maybe. Ortega? Lavezzi? Perchance. Aguero? That is the only player I'd take, but, I wonder where Pato will be at his age?
However, other "New Maradonas" include, D'Alessandro, Carlos Marinelli, and Diego Latorre. Just to name a few.
As to other "new Zidanes," I don't think I'd want Mourad Meghni, or Ahmed Yahiaoui either.
I don't want to comment on the other stuff, because it is rather pointless. At the end of the day, Gorky isn't here. Is he a good player? Yes. In fact, like Rick, I was also a huge fan of this player.
Does it matter where or not Carlo ruined him here at Milan? No. Because he isn't here. Plus, even if Carlo DID ruin him, what if Carlo was the reason that Pato actually became the player he was? Maybe it was Carlo that ensured Kaka reached the dizzying heights he has? Pirlo too? Maybe even Seedorf? Perhaps? Life, like football, is a story of chance, of circumstance, of fate, whatever you want to call it, at the end of the day, you need to be around the people and in the place that will allow you to best succeed. Unfortunatley, that did occur for Gourcuff.
Gorky's departure is frustrating because of the sort of transfer market we've had. But, like all players before him, he will be forgotten. Just like many other great players who have come to Milan, but have had success in other places. Roberto Ayala, Patrick Vieira, Patrick Kluivert, Edgar Davids, and Chedric Seedorf (haha).
Whether you knew about the clause, or didn't, again, is immaterial. I think what bothers me is that we are putting Gorky in some sort of angelic place. However, Galliani went to Gourcuff and at the time, knew that Carlo was leaving, that he would be given the opportunity to take over Kaka's spot, and if not, at least Seedorf's, and do you know what happened? Gourcuff turned Milan down.
Why? Is it because Domenech is a crazy bastard? Maybe. Is it because Gourcuff wanted a spot in the French team? Sure. But at the end of the day, he was afraid of playing here, and you could tell he was a coward for not taking such a challenge. At least, that's how I look at it. I mean, if Domenech isn't picking players in Serie A simply because they are there, well, he's just plain stupid. Frey, Mexes, Flamini, and had he stayed, Gourcuff, would be excellent additions to any squad.
Yes, you might have a right to complain, and the right to be suspicious of what Galliani says (I think we all are, no matter if it was a right or not) but at the end of the day, Rick is right, because the more we spin our wheels over this move, the more energy we have wasted on something that just won't change.
I'm not sure if Gourcuff would've done well in Milan had he returned, and maybe we will never know? Maybe he will be one of those Milan players to return (like Oddo, Abbiati, or Sheva). I'm not sure if Gourcuff will be a huge success, I think that will depend on whether he can make that next step up. Whether he's a good player or not, is not in question. But I also don't question that Gila is a good player either. I just don't think he has the mentality for a club like Milan. Frankly, until Gourcuff shows it, neither does he.
ps. I like the formation in your sig, especially how it would trick Flamini in being a midfielder and a fullback.
Milano84
11-08-2009, 12:53
pato is only 1 year younger than aguero
So far, Fabregas and Hernanes. (You asked rumor, aren't you? :delol:)
Rumour is the best we can do :D
Filipéz 182
11-08-2009, 13:04
Milan:Roma alle prese con le visite
Offerta al Torino per Dzemaili
Flavio Roma
Flavio Roma sta effettuando le visite mediche. Al termine potrebbe essere ufficialmente il nuovo portiere del Milan. Al massimo mercoledě mattina verrŕ emesso il comunicato della societŕ. I rossoneri intanto hanno offerto 4 milioni e Zigoni al Torino per avere Dzemaili. Infine, Galliani ha detto che il terzino arriverŕ solo ed esclusivamente se sarŕ ceduto Oddo. Questi i omvimenti di giornata in casa Milan.
Il portiere proveniente dal Monaco č alle prese con gli accertamenti clinici. Una volta conclusi, il Milan diramerŕ il comunicato ufficiale dell'avvenuto acquisto. E' questione di ore. Potrebbe avvenire nella serata di martedě o al piů tardi durante la mattinata di mercoledě.
Per quanto riguarda il mediano granata c'č stata un'accelerata delle operazioni durante la giornata di martedě. Cairo e Foschi avrebbero chiesto come contropartita Zigoni. L'attaccante - non si sa ancora con qualce formula - andrebbe a rimpinguare il reparto offensivo di Colantuono.
Per quel che riguarda il terzino, invece, č stato Galliani a parlarne chiaramente. Solo la cessione di Oddo puň sbloccare l'arrivo di un esterno basso che Leonardo chiede.
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looks like the Flavio Roma rumours are getting serious...
What the hell is our management doing, signing another 2nd choice goalkeeper while we've already got 4 goalkeepers :s
maybe now kalac and dida will leave... then it makes sense.
the article also says we made an offer for dzemaili, 4m + zigoni.
I dont know him very well that dzemaili... anyone?
Filipéz 182
11-08-2009, 13:19
some good rumours!!
Milan, Leonardo vuole un terzino: assalto a De Silvestri
Alla Lazio andrebbero Oddo e soldi. Intanto il Bayern ha chiesto Kaladze.
Il mercato del Milan potrebbe non essersi fermato a Oguchi Onyewu e Klaas-Jan Huntelaar: questo č quanto sperano i tifosi rossoneri e anche Leonardo, che pur confermando le ambizioni di Scudetto del Diavolo, ha contemporaneamente chiesto un ulteriore sforzo alla societŕ per rendere piů concreti i sogni tricolori del club di Via Turati.
“Il mercato č aperto fino al 31 agosto e piano piano io credo che anche questi sono momenti importanti per queste valutazioni, per dire ciň di cui abbiamo bisogno – ha dichiarato l’allenatore - Credo che piano piano stiamo costruendo una squadra importante”.
Dichiarazioni che costituiscono un evidente indizio di come Leonardo abbia chiesto almeno un altro acquisto a Silvio Berlusconi e Adriano Galliani, ovvero un esterno difensivo in grado di spingere sulla fascia, non a caso il primo movimento di mercato effettuato e poi rinnegato dai rossoneri con Aly Cissokho.
Il primo nome sulla lista degli acquisti in questo senso č quello di Lorenzo De Silvestri, 21enne terzino destro della Lazio che piace tantissimo in Via Turati e che, oltre che per le sue qualitŕ tecniche, corrisponde anche per etŕ (giovane) e ingaggio (basso) ai nuovi parametri fissati dalla dirigenza meneghina
Dal canto suo De Silvestri verrebbe volentieri al Milan, anche perché da tempo in rotta con Claudio Lotito: il presidente biancoceleste non č perň disposto a privarsi del suo gioiellino a prezzi di saldo e per cederlo vuole almeno 7-8 milioni, cifra “cash” che i rossoneri vorrebbero abbassare di almeno 3 milioni inserendo nella trattativa Massimo Oddo, senza escludere ulteriori esborsi qualora l’ex-biancoceleste decidesse di non ridiscutere il proprio ingaggio, al momento troppo alto per gli standard laziali.
Proprio una cifra intorno ai 5 milioni potrebbe peraltro finire nelle casse del Milan dalla cessione di Kakhaber Kaladze, richiesto da un Bayern di Monaco ritrovatosi improvvisamente a corto di centrali dopo l’addio a Lucio e l’infortunio a De Michelis. Difficile perň che, viste le ovvie incognite sul futuro di ex-lungodegenti come Alessandro Nesta e Daniele Bonera, a Milanello vogliano sfoltire anzitempo questo reparto: al momento, l’imperativo č quello di comperare ancora, non di vendere. Almeno cosě sperano Leonardo e i tifosi rossoneri.
11-08-09 (Alice Sport-Italy)
ZvonimirBoban, what are you asking??
K77SH,
Rick was not saying that a player who does well in France is incapable of doing well in Serie A. However, so far, Gourcuff has done poorly in Serie A, and has done well in Ligue 1. Many players have done great in Ligue 1 but not in Serie A, or the Prem, or La Liga. That is the issue, Gorky, might be great in Ligue 1, but he has, so far, done terrible where it matters for Milan, in Serie A.
Saviola has no business anywhere near Milan. Nor Riquelme. Saviola and Riquelme were never good enough for Milan in their "primes," Riquelme in his "prime" was never good enough to overtake Pirlo. Aimar? Maybe, just maybe. Ortega? Lavezzi? Perchance. Aguero? That is the only player I'd take, but, I wonder where Pato will be at his age?
However, other "New Maradonas" include, D'Alessandro, Carlos Marinelli, and Diego Latorre. Just to name a few.
As to other "new Zidanes," I don't think I'd want Mourad Meghni, or Ahmed Yahiaoui either.
ps. I like the formation in your sig, especially how it would trick Flamini in being a midfielder and a fullback.
Samaldhinio, I appreciate your attempt to make the debate more objective. The main issue I have with Rick's argument is that it doesnt factor in Gourcuff's age. Its a very unsophisticated view. He did badly so that is it. He is still developing as a player and will reach peak in a few yeas. To cast him off as some kind of failure is obsurd.
Good point on the new Zidanes and Maradonnas although I think Riquelme at his peak would have done well in this current Milan side, Lavezzi is a player alot of Milanista want here (especially if Ronnie doesnt cut it), Aimar from his valencia days was a joy to watch and Aguero speaks for himself.
I suppose the point I tried to make is that you dont get compared if there isnt a spark. And where there is a spark, which is then backed up by championship winning performances then there is something more substantial.
I do believe Milan could have done more to keep him even if he returned to france for one more year. But time will tell, Il feel gutted if he is another player to make a fool of an Italian giants evaluation. i.e. Patrick Viera and Thierry Henry.
But, in the end like you say, nobody knows.
Oh thanks for the compliment on the sig. Flamini has played his best for us on that wing when he can run without thinking too much about positioning and it would allow Gatusso to destroy around. Flamini could go home and tell his wife how he plays in midfield for AC Milan. I dont know, I just dont see a Milan side with 4 defenders, Pirlo, Ronnie and 2 strikers. oh and imagine that side with Abate coming on the right wing with 30 minutes to go. Damn, I wana manage Milan, no matter how badly Id do!!
Back to topic, Roma. Why?? when we have 4 goal keepers. Cant we just sell them all, use the money to buy Buffon and pray he doesnt get injured:neww:
Samaldinho
11-08-2009, 13:48
Dzemaili, I've watched him a lot with Torino. It would be easy to call him a Flamini-type of player. I think he has a great range of passing, both short and long, but also has a willingness to run forward, and a great engine.
He works for his team and I also happened to find a video of his highlights against Milan, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15KY6sZhWQ).
He reminds me of a more aggressive Pirlo, and honestly, I think for around 2 or 3 million, he is worth it. I don't think he'd be competing for a spot with either Flamini or Abate, but he'd probably be a player who can take over from Pirlo from time to time, just like Vogel and Dhorosoo had done in years before.
He has potential, maybe not as a starter, but he would really give us depth, and while he would have a similar engine to Abate or Flamini, he seems to have a little more subtle passing skills than Flamini, and perhaps a little more fine tuned than Abate is.
boing boing
11-08-2009, 14:19
Nice catch Samaldinho. He does look good and perhaps may be an economical solution to our midfield stagnation. But Braida recently said that Milan is not interested in him.
Braida: "Dzemaili non ci interessa"
http://milannews.it/index.php?action=read&idnotizia=10680
Hasan Rossonero
11-08-2009, 14:30
Milannews: Flavio Roma is practically a Milan player. Tomorrow he will have his medical.
:)
Maltese Charlie
11-08-2009, 14:31
ESCLUSIVA MILANNEWS: E' fatta per Flavio Roma
11.08.2009
Il matrimonio tra Flavio Roma ed il Milan č praticamente cosa fatta. Secondo quanto appreso in ESCLUSIVA da Milannews, l'estremo difensore ex di Piacenza e Chievo arriverŕ domani a Milanello per sostenere le visite mediche e porre la firma sul contratto. Il portiere proveniente dal Monaco andrŕ cosě ad aggiungersi al novero degli estremi difensori a disposizione di Leonardo che potrebbe perdere Zelijko Kalac, vicino, secondo indiscrezioni uscite oggi, alla rescissione del contratto.
According Milannews Milan signed the goalkeeper Flavio Roma. Medical test is for tomorrow.
Samaldinho
11-08-2009, 14:37
I would be scratching my head, but, I guess that means that 1) Milan has no faith in Kalac [FINALLY!] 2) Dida and Abbiati are both injured, leaving 3) Storari the only viable goalkeeper we have, so Roma will just be a backup, maybe he'll be better than Storari? Who knows?
Maybe this means we're getting rid of BOTH Dida AND Kalac? Wow.
I would be scratching my head, but, I guess that means that 1) Milan has no faith in Kalac [FINALLY!] 2) Dida and Abbiati are both injured, leaving 3) Storari the only viable goalkeeper we have, so Roma will just be a backup, maybe he'll be better than Storari? Who knows?
Maybe this means we're getting rid of BOTH Dida AND Kalac? Wow.
But if we wanted a backup for Storari by waiting for the come back of Abbiati, why taking a 35yo GK ??
And for moment, Dida is still there, as well as Kalac ...
@GeoTav, Temporary back up would be older actually, young guy wouldn't want to be a temp and then perhaps forgotten.
I am just saying that in general, I have no idea what is going o nwith our team.
Hasan Rossonero
11-08-2009, 14:44
I think Roma will be the backup to Abbiati. From what I know, he is a very capable keeper.
Milan Prepare Double Swoop For Flavio Roma & Blerim Dzemaili - Report
The Rossoneri are launching a double swoop, but the players in question are not Lorenzo De Silvestri and Gareth Bale as has been previously mooted...
11 Aug 2009 20:05:13
Flavio Roma (Foto Grazia Neri)
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According to reports this evening, Milan are preparing to bolster their squad further before the league campaign begins. Sportmediaset are claiming that the Rossoneri are not only moving in for Monaco's 35-year-old goalkeeper Flavio Roma but are also making a bid for midfielder Blerim Dzemaili.
Torino are set to receive €4m plus Gianmarco Zigoni for Dzemaili, who has been incessantly linked with Palermo. Zigoni is a new signing at Milan, having joined the Rossoneri from Treviso, and is highly rated by the Milanello staff. As a result he will probably move to the Granata on loan, although a co-ownership deal remains a possibility.
While negotiations for Dzemaili are yet to be concluded, Sportmediaset are also reporting that Flavio Roma is undergoing a medical with the Rossoneri physios. The move could be announced officially later tonight if it progresses smoothly.
Meanwhile, any moves for a full back can only be initiated after the sale of Massimo Oddo, according to Adriano Galliani. Although the vice-president is happy to allow Leonardo to have Lazio's De Silvestri, he must first find a buyer for Oddo, who spent last season on loan with Bayern Munich.
goal.com
Warro Bantan
11-08-2009, 14:53
Just read on football-itallia (formerly of channel4 origin) that Kaladze is staying, becuz we rejected Bayern's approach....
So, while there is some good news on the goal-keeping situation, not so for the CD....:sigh:
I doubt that anybody has any confidence in Kalac now. It is strange though where Dida is these days. He must be injured, I guess, otherwise, why isn't he playing at all?
I am all for selling Dida if that's going to happen, but I doubt Dida will want to leave. It is not his fault when our senile management gave him that crazy contract. It would be a crime not to take it, I guess. And I don't blame him for not willing to be re-negotiate his contract, after all, a contract is a contract, and not everyone has to bleed black and red.
On a technical note, I think Dida can still make contribution, but his salary does not match his status. IMHO, Storari is just a small version of Dida, anything he can do, Dida can do better (or just slightly better), but Storari probably doesn't earn half of what Dida does. If we were the old Milan when money was not an issue, I say keep Dida and dump Storari. But it is different now.
That's why I am surprised that we bring in Roma. I have watched him too few games to make any valid judgment, but I believe that he was called upon a few times by Lippi, so he must not be too bad. I am just really curious waiting to see what will happen to the three backup keepers we now have. It would be interesting if we offer Roma a one-year contract and fail to offload any of those three, since we will then have four keepers on the exit all at the same time next summer.
Milano84
11-08-2009, 16:27
Real Madrid Look To Sell Robben, Van der Vaart, Sneijder & Negredo - Report
The Dutch trio are set for the exit as Madrid aim to recoup €80 million...
11 Aug 2009 07:14:02
Arjen Robben - Real Madrid (Goal.com)
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Real Madrid will place Arjen Robben, Wesley Sneijder and Rafael Van der Vaart on the transfer list in a bid to recover some of the millions spent this summer, according to AS.
Robben, who has already expressed his desire to remain at Madrid, was recently singled out for praise by coach Manuel Pellegrini. It appears, however, that despite Pellegrini's wish for him to stay, the winger will now be shown the door.
The Dutch contingent has attracted interest throughout the summer, along with Alvaro Negredo, and it now appears that all four could make way as Los Blancos look to increase their summer transfer revenue.
Florentino Perez's summer spending has so far totalled €254 million, with €33m recovered from the sale of Javi Garcia, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Javier Saviola and Dani Parejo. It appears that the initial plan was to spend €280m and offset €90m in sales.
There have been enquiries about taking the named players on season-long loan deals, but Madrid are not interested in anything other than straightforward transfers.
Paul Madden, Goal.com
-------------------
inter will claim 1, but itll be interesting to see... bundesliga and epl teams r interested but most these playrs want bigger clubs. Just like huntelaar who didnt want stuttgart or tottenham.
I would be shocked if we dont look to swoop 1 late. The fee will only drop as perez' loans really r contingent on sales he hasnt been able to make
Graeme C
11-08-2009, 16:37
Abbiati
Santacrocce Nesta Thiago
Flamini Gatusso Pirlo Zambrotta
Ronnie
Pato Huntelaar
Mate, were very much on the same channel with the formation. Its flexable and Zambrotta can switch between left and right back.
i hope galliani and leonardo goes to the holland england game so they can see huntelaar perform, but more importantly VDV and Afellay.
Mate, were very much on the same channel with the formation. Its flexable and Zambrotta can switch between left and right back.
Hey two compliments in one day:1d31: All we need now is Santa:v46:
boing boing
11-08-2009, 17:06
Galliani sul terzino: "Arriva se piazziamo Oddo"
Galliani: A new full back will arrive once we get rid of Oddo.
http://milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=10725
I don't know who wants to buy him. :(
Milano84
11-08-2009, 17:17
Abbiati
Santacrocce Nesta Thiago
Flamini Gatusso Pirlo Zambrotta
Ronnie
Pato Huntelaar
no offense but this is a pretty bad formation. Maybe 5 years ago when zambrotta was in his prime but to plya a 3-4-1-2 requires class wingbacks. Ones who have endless energy to fly up and down the flank.
Flamini may have the energy but he doesn't know how to play like a wingback, nor does he cross. Watch dani alves or maicon or evra... do you see any of that in flamini? Second Zambrotta is getting too old to play attack fullback, moving him up like that would put even more pressure on his aging body.
The last team to play this tactic successfully was brazil WC2002 team and they had roberto carlos and cafu in there prime
lastly a large reason the 3-5-2 has died is because of rise of 4-3-3.... attacking wide players in 4-3-3 keep those wingbacks back.... think if wep layed barca.... theyd be too busy dealing w/ messi and henry to go attack.... all of a sudden there whole midfield and defense and push up and nullify our attack. its an outdated tactic that can really only work with world class talent
no offense but this is a pretty bad formation. Maybe 5 years ago when zambrotta was in his prime but to plya a 3-4-1-2 requires class wingbacks. Ones who have endless energy to fly up and down the flank.
Flamini may have the energy but he doesn't know how to play like a wingback, nor does he cross. Watch dani alves or maicon or evra... do you see any of that in flamini? Second Zambrotta is getting too old to play attack fullback, moving him up like that would put even more pressure on his aging body.
The last team to play this tactic successfully was brazil WC2002 team and they had roberto carlos and cafu in there prime
lastly a large reason the 3-5-2 has died is because of rise of 4-3-3.... attacking wide players in 4-3-3 keep those wingbacks back.... think if wep layed barca.... theyd be too busy dealing w/ messi and henry to go attack.... all of a sudden there whole midfield and defense and push up and nullify our attack. its an outdated tactic that can really only work with world class talent
No offence taken.
I think Flamini could do pretty well in this role. He broke into the Arsenal team as a fullback and has played his best football for Milan at rightback towards the end of last season. I dont think most Milan fans realise how capable he is at crossing and shooting. Mostly because we havent seen it yet.
About Zambro's age. At the 2002 WC Cafu was 32 years old, the same age Zambro is now.
About dealing with Henry and Messi, You have the two wide centre backs to deal with them and if they drift back then you have Gatusso to help Flamini or Zambro. Then Pirlo to trip them up:D
I dont know if you remember the Juve match a few years ago when Nedved was the ballondor. Carlo played Rui on the wing and the Nedved had to chase him back and was completely nullified. Well with Pato and Ronnie (Hopefully) tormenting the Barca fullbacks then Messi and Henry would alos need to help out.
But you are right, a system like that requires quality. The only question mark is whether Ronnie can still provide that quality. If so, then Id be happy with this formation.
Milano84
11-08-2009, 17:58
No offence taken.
I think Flamini could do pretty well in this role. He broke into the Arsenal team as a fullback and has played his best football for Milan at rightback towards the end of last season. I dont think most Milan fans realise how capable he is at crossing and shooting. Mostly because we havent seen it yet.
About Zambro's age. At the 2002 WC Cafu was 32 years old, the same age Zambro is now.
About dealing with Henry and Messi, You have the two wide centre backs to deal with them and if they drift back then you have Gatusso to help Flamini or Zambro. Then Pirlo to trip them up:D
I dont know if you remember the Juve match a few years ago when Nedved was the ballondor. Carlo played Rui on the wing and the Nedved had to chase him back and was completely nullified. Well with Pato and Ronnie (Hopefully) tormenting the Barca fullbacks then Messi and Henry would alos need to help out.
But you are right, a system like that requires quality. The only question mark is whether Ronnie can still provide that quality. If so, then Id be happy with this formation.
i like it too but i think the problems arise in this....
yes cafu was 32 but cafu ran like a maniac till he was 35/36. He was atypical to say the least. Now look at zambrotta... you see the fatigue set in, you can see he isn't what he once was. He is still a good fullback, but i think his days of being zambrotta worlds best fb a la 2004-06 r behind him.
2nd cafu and roberto carlos could take on or get by every defender in the world. Flamini can't... he runs but he isnt gonna dribble by someone like dani alves. Zambrotta cant the same way he used to be able to either...
3rd it nullifies pirlo.... he isnt needed as much w/ ronnie right on top of him. In our 4-3-2-1 he had options... optins infront... options side to side, options flying from behind.... in this he has gattuso next to him (real dynamic pass) wings wide or ronaldinho who will sit slightly deeper. Pirlo cant push up too much cause he would need to provide support in defense.
4th on teams that play a 4-3-3 u will need wingbacks dropping because if messi in a 4-3-3 makes a run at your outside CB. u now have a CF running and other winger running + midfielders pushing up... all this and u expect ur cb to take messi on 1 on 1? You will get skinned alive. Gattuso will provide hewlp in stopping counters thru the middle, but he cant possible be on both wings at once, despite what our eyes tell us sometimes.
in short, as soon as zambrotta or flamini overshoot a quick pass to winger and u have 5 or so players running at ur 3 man backline.
I realize of course i am using best example of a 4-3-3 but it still stands....
No offence taken.
I think Flamini could do pretty well in this role. He broke into the Arsenal team as a fullback and has played his best football for Milan at rightback towards the end of last season. I dont think most Milan fans realise how capable he is at crossing and shooting. Mostly because we havent seen it yet.
About Zambro's age. At the 2002 WC Cafu was 32 years old, the same age Zambro is now.
About dealing with Henry and Messi, You have the two wide centre backs to deal with them and if they drift back then you have Gatusso to help Flamini or Zambro. Then Pirlo to trip them up:D
I dont know if you remember the Juve match a few years ago when Nedved was the ballondor. Carlo played Rui on the wing and the Nedved had to chase him back and was completely nullified. Well with Pato and Ronnie (Hopefully) tormenting the Barca fullbacks then Messi and Henry would alos need to help out.
But you are right, a system like that requires quality. The only question mark is whether Ronnie can still provide that quality. If so, then Id be happy with this formation.
One more obvious hole in that formation... we don't actually have Santacrocce. I highly doubt anyone else in our defensive lineup could make it in that formation, bar the two other guys already listed in there.
boing boing
11-08-2009, 19:51
To play with 3 defenders, we need a ridiculously strong defense. I doubt we will ever play in this formation.
Samaldinho
11-08-2009, 20:16
Flamini has tremendous quality, both as a crosser, and as someone who can shoot. He has the engine, and the skills to play that position.
In terms of Zambro, I'm sorry, to say he some sort of finished player is a bit harsh. He was one of the most underrated and unappreciated players for Milan last year, and he still has a fantastic work rate. Watching him against Benfica, I don't see what he's lost, to be honest.
Yes, we obviously don't have Santacroce, but that formation has him, and if we did have him, I would have to say, that would be one of the best defenses in the world.
Plus, Chelsea showed how to nullify Messi. It's pretty simple, push him to the byline, isolate him. Man Utd should have learned from Chelsea, but they obviously didn't.
Plus, Barca's 4-3-3 has yet to be tested against a quality Italian side. If Inter gets Sneijder, or Cassano, someone to play in place of Stankovic, then I will truly fear them. However, until then, they will be the "all most right" team.
Barca's 4-3-3 depends on the inability for the other team to hold onto possession as much as it can. Chelsea tried to out-hustle Barca, and frankly, they probably should have had a penalty in their second leg semi, and Barca had a bit of luck (every champion does), but I think the only way to truly beat them is to do the counterintuitive thing, and that is to maintain possession. Why? While Henry, Messi, and Eto'o (now Ibra) are instructed to hustle back for the ball, they problem is that their midfield is not designed to deal with the other team having continued possession of the ball.
Yaya is the anchor to the team, and without him, Iniesta and Xavi are lost.
If Milan got a real top-class LB, and Ronaldinho played like he could, I would be confident against playing Barca. The thing is, Ronaldinho is going to be the big "what if."
The brilliant part of Barca is that the way they play, forces to other team to try and play things quickly. It's instinct to many, try and play forward, quickly, catch them off-guard. The reality is quite the opposite.
Hold onto the ball, let Messi and Henry run their hearts out, and if they win the ball back, see how much running they have left in them.
If you play smart, you can overcome Barca. Think of the George Forman, Muhammad Ali fight and you'll get what I mean.
And to add more - to this 3-4-3/3-5-2 discussion, playing with such a formation would be out of our identity.
Milan has always played with a formation looking like 4-3-1-2, and with Ancelotti and his Christmas Tree, 4-3-2-1 which was a kind of more defensive 4-3-1-2 ... or a modified 4-3-3 (instead of the wingers, we had two "central" attacking midfielders) depending on your point of view.
So I think we need to keep our identity on the pitch, and don't forget too that we have some players who have been there for years now (from Nesta to Pirlo without forgetting the likes of Gattuso and co), and telling them that finally, we'll play with 3 defenders, I don't know how they would accept it ... and how they would adapt.
About Flamini, if you want him to request to be sold next year, put him in the RB position ... he said before the pre-season that he doesn't want to play in this RB position too often because he is a midfielder. If that can help, he can play there for some games, but he doesn't want to be counted as a RB. And if you put Flamini in the RB position (let's imagine he is ok with that), then, what will happen ? Instead of a quality FB, we'll need another quality midfielder, and I don't think I'll be wrong that for an equal quality, the midfielder will be more expensive than the RB/LB ...
Home from a hard and rough days work, and still nothing new on the market.
But hey! Ho! a message to reply to! Hurray!
rt, for one thing, the conversation I had with Filipéz ended like 3 pages back (to your post at least). I've already accepted that he portrays himself to be a fan who doesn't rate our elder players based on their recent performances and not their past history. For me, it was over and I'd already started ignoring him the minute he started cussing. In my opinion, thats already appropriate and mature enough of a response for him. You may think otherwise, but thats your opinion.
You ask me how I can formulate an opinion of someone based on what he writes? I ask you, how can I NOT?
I don't know him personally, and I don't feel I have an obligation to either. So I base my impressions and responses on what people post up on the forum. Whats so wrong with that??? He comes out with a post slanting a player we've had on our books for nearly a decade, whose won everything with and for us that there is to be won. I'm not a big fan of the current Kaladze, but as a poster on this forum, I would expect that I have my own right to take offense. Thats my right. The way I react to that post is also up to me. I'm not as submissive as you as in that I have to accept everything that I don't like quietly. That too is my right.
You talk about me passing personal judgment? Oh, thats fresh, from someone who just came by and called me immature and inappropriate for having a difference in opinion with someone, who I might add, has nothing to do with you, rt. The conversation was between me and Filipéz. You butting in three pages after everything has been settled just portrays you to be a busybody and a hypocrite who enjoys picking fights with other people. Seriously, this had nothing to do with you in the first place, unless you're like Filipézs' closet lover or something, so why bother butting in at all? Real mature, man, real mature....
The things I say may offend you, but, seriously, I'm entitled to my own opinion and my own impression of you (which is none too good right now), and if you really do feel offended, I don't give a rats @ss, because you butting into someone else's conversation just goes to show how "mature" you are. In my humble opinion, you totally deserved being told off. :devf::devf::devf:
Wow, more personal attacks! I won't waste my time responding to you suffice to say that when I see something unfair or wrong I am not the type of person to sit back and just let it pass. What you wrote many pages ago was wrong, it was a personal attack and it's against forum rules. I merely pointed it out. If that has resulted in more personal attacks on me, then that's fine. It simply reflects back to your level of maturity (or lack thereof).
Now back to Gourcuff. I just hope he stays with Bourdeaux for some time and keeps developing. The way he's going, it looks like he'll be a big star in the future. The facts are these:
1) He wasnt given a proper chance by Carlo (just like a lot of other young players who have come and gone)
2) He was loaned because he was unhappy at not getting regular football. The selling price was added because we bought Dinho and he was going to be surplus to requirement anyways, so if Bordeaux wanted to buy him, they'd have to cough up the cash, which at that time given his form, IMO was appropriate for him (although now it is seeming way too low)
3) He had 2 options: continue at Bordeaux where he is now well established and the team's key player, or return to Milan and play second fiddle to Dinho (in a World Cup year, I might add). So the choice was pretty obvious, if I was him, I'd stay on at Bordeaux as well.
So, there is nothing further we can do. My only regret is that Carlo did not give him more chances, which would have to come at the expense of Seedorf, because if he did I'm sure we'd be seeing the "real" Gourcuff and he may have become a key part of the team
Flavio Roma would be a welcome addition in place of Kalac. Last I heard the player is already at Milanello conducting medical tests.
Wow, more personal attacks! I won't waste my time responding to you suffice to say that when I see something unfair or wrong I am not the type of person to sit back and just let it pass. What you wrote many pages ago was wrong, it was a personal attack and it's against forum rules. I merely pointed it out. If that has resulted in more personal attacks on me, then that's fine. It simply reflects back to your level of maturity (or lack thereof).
Just let it go, man. It is good for you this way. Trust me. It is not worth it at all. :u56:
Flavio Roma would be a welcome addition in place of Kalac. Last I heard the player is already at Milanello conducting medical tests.
I am curious who will want Kalac. I heard Parma, but didn't they just get someone else (Milante (spelling?) from Sampdoria? It would be interesting if we are stuck with five goalies. I guess our management has a plan already (no sarcasm). :cool:
Rossoneri Fuego
11-08-2009, 20:50
no offense but this is a pretty bad formation. Maybe 5 years ago when zambrotta was in his prime but to plya a 3-4-1-2 requires class wingbacks. Ones who have endless energy to fly up and down the flank.
Flamini may have the energy but he doesn't know how to play like a wingback, nor does he cross. Watch dani alves or maicon or evra... do you see any of that in flamini? Second Zambrotta is getting too old to play attack fullback, moving him up like that would put even more pressure on his aging body.
The last team to play this tactic successfully was brazil WC2002 team and they had roberto carlos and cafu in there prime
lastly a large reason the 3-5-2 has died is because of rise of 4-3-3.... attacking wide players in 4-3-3 keep those wingbacks back.... think if wep layed barca.... theyd be too busy dealing w/ messi and henry to go attack.... all of a sudden there whole midfield and defense and push up and nullify our attack. its an outdated tactic that can really only work with world class talent
that's one hell of a breakdown bro keep the knowledge coming if only we can hear more consructed opinions like these
Thanks, Xudong. I just felt the need to point out the obvious that's all. As for Kalac, Parma would be pretty mad to want him, but then again, if they want him enough, then let's make them pay....can you imagine Galliani trying to negotiate a transfer fee for Kalac? After all, he is a European and World Champion you know? :)
Samaldinho
11-08-2009, 21:39
I don't think I'd realistically play a 3-5-2, but, I think with those players, it would be a pretty good formation.
I also agree, playing Flamini as a full-back would be the best way to get him to be sold, but I joked with K77 that it was a great way to trick him into playing as a full-back but still giving him the title of a midfielder.
I agree, I think, especially considering the players we have available, the 4-3-1-2 would be the best formation. I honestly think that a new FB and perhaps a midfielder to update Seedorf is all Milan really needs to be a top-class team again.
I think Milan's GK situation is looking to be Abbiati, Storari, Roma. It looks like Kalac and Dida are on their way out, and while I think Dida is a great backup to have, his wages do not match up to what role he would serve here.
I guess the rumors over Dzemaili are persisting, even though Braida said there were no negotiations. I think he's a good player, maybe not a certain starter, but, as he showed at Torino, he can really rise to the occasion if given the opportunity.
Samaldinho
11-08-2009, 21:47
The Uruguayan boys just got squad numbers (according to wikipedia), 17 for Viudez and 24 for Cardacio. Does that mean they will actually figure for our squad this season? I wonder what will happen to them, and whether they will be played at all this pre-season.
Milano84
11-08-2009, 21:54
One more obvious hole in that formation... we don't actually have Santacrocce. I highly doubt anyone else in our defensive lineup could make it in that formation, bar the two other guys already listed in there.
i think bonera is better than santacroce anyway. Maybe not in 3 years but now he is... still you're right
ZvonimirBoban
11-08-2009, 22:07
I doubt that anybody has any confidence in Kalac now. It is strange though where Dida is these days. He must be injured, I guess, otherwise, why isn't he playing at all?
I am all for selling Dida if that's going to happen, but I doubt Dida will want to leave. It is not his fault when our senile management gave him that crazy contract. It would be a crime not to take it, I guess. And I don't blame him for not willing to be re-negotiate his contract, after all, a contract is a contract, and not everyone has to bleed black and red.
When will his contract be finished?
Galliani: A new full back will arrive once we get rid of Oddo.
http://milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=10725
I don't know who wants to buy him. :(
Surely hard task for poor Galliani to get rid of him... :dcool:
Now back to Gourcuff. I just hope he stays with Bourdeaux for some time and keeps developing. The way he's going, it looks like he'll be a big star in the future. The facts are these:
1) He wasnt given a proper chance by Carlo (just like a lot of other young players who have come and gone)
2) He was loaned because he was unhappy at not getting regular football. The selling price was added because we bought Dinho and he was going to be surplus to requirement anyways, so if Bordeaux wanted to buy him, they'd have to cough up the cash, which at that time given his form, IMO was appropriate for him (although now it is seeming way too low)
3) He had 2 options: continue at Bordeaux where he is now well established and the team's key player, or return to Milan and play second fiddle to Dinho (in a World Cup year, I might add). So the choice was pretty obvious, if I was him, I'd stay on at Bordeaux as well.
So, there is nothing further we can do. My only regret is that Carlo did not give him more chances, which would have to come at the expense of Seedorf, because if he did I'm sure we'd be seeing the "real" Gourcuff and he may have become a key part of the team
Have we reached the consensus that we will not be talking about him anymore in this thread?
The Uruguayan boys just got squad numbers (according to wikipedia), 17 for Viudez and 24 for Cardacio. Does that mean they will actually figure for our squad this season? I wonder what will happen to them, and whether they will be played at all this pre-season.
Actually I never liked them and did not put any faith above them.
Anyway Bayern are close to sign Bosingwa, so maybe they will not want Kaladze anymore...
http://goal.com/en/news/15/germany/2009/08/12/1435581/bayern-munich-close-to-sealing-175m-bosingwa-deal-with
EDIT:
http://goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2009/08/11/1434099/fiorentina-transfer-would-be-a-dream-boca-juniors-ezequiel
I've never heard about this guy before, but if you read in this article he claimed that Milan is chasing him. Anybody know who he is?
Milano84
11-08-2009, 22:12
And to add more - to this 3-4-3/3-5-2 discussion, playing with such a formation would be out of our identity.
Milan has always played with a formation looking like 4-3-1-2, and with Ancelotti and his Christmas Tree, 4-3-2-1 which was a kind of more defensive 4-3-1-2 ... or a modified 4-3-3 (instead of the wingers, we had two "central" attacking midfielders) depending on your point of view.
So I think we need to keep our identity on the pitch, and don't forget too that we have some players who have been there for years now (from Nesta to Pirlo without forgetting the likes of Gattuso and co), and telling them that finally, we'll play with 3 defenders, I don't know how they would accept it ... and how they would adapt.
About Flamini, if you want him to request to be sold next year, put him in the RB position ... he said before the pre-season that he doesn't want to play in this RB position too often because he is a midfielder. If that can help, he can play there for some games, but he doesn't want to be counted as a RB. And if you put Flamini in the RB position (let's imagine he is ok with that), then, what will happen ? Instead of a quality FB, we'll need another quality midfielder, and I don't think I'll be wrong that for an equal quality, the midfielder will be more expensive than the RB/LB ...
we won scudetto in 1998 w/ a 3-4-3 (with abbiati and ambrosini btw!).
For me formation has never been the identity its more style of play... players like pirlo, gattuso...albertini, ambrosini.. farther back ancelotti, desailley,rijkaard..to the great gianni rivera and of course the defensive greats... Milan has always held great possession and controlled midfield irregardless of formation.
Everyone talks about van basten, sheva, now pato... but milan is always defined for me by possession football. Its kind of whats scared me most in preseason, total lack of possession and 'milan football' starting namely w/ ronaldinho who does brilliant things but gives the ball away soooo much
Blacktop
11-08-2009, 23:53
And I don't blame him for not willing to be re-negotiate his contract, after all, a contract is a contract, and not everyone has to bleed black and red.
I see this here and on the R&B cesspool all the time.
I'm not trying to start a fight, but I really wish people would stop holding Dida up as the poster boy for not being a Milanista simply because he hasn't reworked his contract for the so-called sake of the team. No one else on the roster save for Gattuso (and his reduction was minimal at best) has bothered to renegotiate their deals either, while Ambro was recently asking for a 4-plus-million-a-year extension. Does that mean they don't bleed red and black either?
Quite frankly, it's not the players' fault if management doesn't have a clue about saving for a rainy day.
When will his contract be finished?
Once again, it expires after the end of the upcoming season.
Rick Rick Rick, its funny how you always try to interpret other peoples views differently fromt he way they were intended. My examples make it clear the French league is capable of producing world class playerswho are ready for big teams in the so called stronger leagues. And if you aregoing to back up the arguments that I was trying to counter, then that would suggest you believe Milan shouldnt sign players who have done well in inferior leagues. And if thats what you are saying, "I dont know what to say to you".
No, it was you who misinterpreted what I said. When I said Ligue 1 was an inferior league, I was speaking in relation to Serie A. I was not saying that Ligue 1 completely sucked or that good players did not come from there (good players can come from any league). But Ligue 1 is a league that good players move from. Serie A is a league that good players move to. That's why I answered you like I did.
New Maradonnas - Saviolla, Riquelme, Messi, Aimar, Ortega, Lavezzi, Aguero.
5 of those players would have got into our side in their peak.
That is a list of 7 players described as the new Maradonna. You said there are as many 'new Zidanes'. Can you name them please. the only one I can think of other than Gourcuff is Ribery who would also get into the Milan side.
Samir Nasri was labeled "the new Zidane." Sofiane Feghouli has been labeled "the new Zidane." Hell, the other day I was reading something about some 6-year-old who has been labeled "the new Zidane!" It all means absolutely nothing.
Again, you know very well I wasnt claiming to predict the future. But I was happy as most that Milan had signed a young talented player. And let me remind you that once he had signed, there were people posting about his performances against Lyon (An excellent side in the CL at the time). And we had some pretty impressive clips to get excited about. After watching Kaka blossom at Milan, we had enough reason to hope for Gourcuff to develop too.
You were claiming that those who disagreed with you were purporting to see the future, when in fact I was saying that nobody knows the future. And again, when Milan signed Gourcuff, I was one of his biggest backers (if you were as well, that's fine). But that doesn't change the fact that he did nothing in a Milan jersey to justify any particular confidence.
I dont know, maybe you date Galliani? Again, its funny how you ignore my mention about the fact that Milan didnt do enough to keep him even after giving a buyout clause.
Well you keep mentioning that they should have done more, so tell me -- what should they have done? Should they have absolutely guaranteed him a spot in the starting lineup no matter how he played (even in the face of his previous failure in Serie A)? Should they have gotten down on their knees and begged him? Should they have given him half ownership in the team? Provided him with a different Italian prostitute every night? What do you suggest?
The deal was forged more than a year ago. Milan had no legal recourse. It was up to Bordeaux to meet the fee that had been agreed upon and it was up to Gourcuff to decide to accept a contract with Bordeaux. I just don't know what you expected to happen.
I find it amazing how you think "anything he might do in the future" is immaterial. The whole point of signing young players is what they will do in the future. But again you obviously didnt understand my points about him being ready for Milan now and proving this with his performances for Bordeaux and France.
How is it material what he does in the future -- from this point on -- considering he is not a Milan player? That boat has sailed and the only thing that will change is how much you and others who want to worry about Gourcuff will agonize over what you see as losing something. As far as I'm concerned, that's immaterial.
Rick, I didnt go through years of education to believe everything I was told by the likes of you or Galliani. If I dont like something then I will say it.
Which is exactly what I'm doing. I don't like the fact that so many can't let go of this Gourcuff thing and can't rid themselves of the sort of negativity that makes me wonder why they even bother to pay attention to a sport and a team that makes them so miserable and unhappy. So I'm saying it.
And I find it extremely ironic and hypocritical for people to come on here and 'b!tch' and 'moan' at people who they think are 'b!tching' and 'moaning'.
You could do your self a favour and either ignore our 'b!tching' and 'moaning' or reply without 'bitching', 'moaning' or trying to enforce your opinions on us or even better using the phrase "I dont know what to say to you" right before you write a zillions sentences in your reply!
And I find it hypocritical that you would b1tch and moan about my b1tching and moaning over all the b1tching and moaning you're doing considering how much b1tching and moaning you're actually doing. ;)
And when I said "I don't know what to say to you" I was speaking of one specific subtopic in this conversation -- a subtopic that I said nothing further about. :w157:
Milano84
12-08-2009, 00:03
I see this here and on the R&B cesspool all the time.
I'm not trying to start a fight, but I really wish people would stop holding Dida up as the poster boy for not being a Milanista simply because he hasn't reworked his contract for the so-called sake of the team. No one else on the roster save for Gattuso (and his reduction was minimal at best) has bothered to renegotiate their deals either, while Ambro was recently asking for a 4-plus-million-a-year extension. Does that mean they don't bleed red and black either?
Quite frankly, it's not the players' fault if management doesn't have a clue about saving for a rainy day.
Once again, it expires after the end of the upcoming season.
i would completely agree. I think alot of it is poorly articulated posts.
the problem is with management. Personally if i played i'd try to get largest contract possible too
Milano84
12-08-2009, 00:04
Samir Nasri was labeled "the new Zidane." Sofiane Feghouli has been labeled "the new Zidane." Hell, the other day I was reading something about some 6-year-old who has been labeled "the new Zidane!" It all means absolutely nothing.
i would LOVE nasri on milan... great talent
tim_milan
12-08-2009, 00:25
Gorcuff is this.....Gorcuff is that....guys we dont have him no longer in our team....he s gone and our managment had failed from preventing that to happen. So lets just lay the Gorcuff matter to rest coz just as we all would have loved to have him play in the Milan shirt,the bottomline s its not going to happen. So why whine over the past and get imprisoned in it. We have a better future to talk about.
IMO just as importantly as any other player that we would like to have in our team, i think our goalkeeping department too requires a new face. Wat say??
Samaldinho
12-08-2009, 00:29
Don't worry guys, things will be fine. We're AC Milan.
Man, I wish I was the man who had to bribe referees, why do I say this? Well, because I wish they all looked like this (http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20070619elpepuage_2/XLCO/Ies/20070619elpepuage_2.jpg).
Wow.
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 00:42
how much would Marco Motta cost? 10-15 mil? he seems like the perfect player for us...
and could we sign fredrico marcheti for Abs and ~1-2 mil? seems like a fair deal
He started 18 frickin' games. At one point he started and played the full 90 minutes in six straight games. He did nothing to justify keeping him in the lineup. And if you couldn't see that Seedorf was a superior player to Gourcuff in the 2006-07 season, then I just don't know what to say to you.
2006/07? I was thinking you talked about his second season. Although Seedorf only performed in UCL that year as he left his more effective midfield position in serie A. Gorcuff was great the first games he played by the way. Starting 18 games, especially over two seasons isn't much, hardly something close to consistancy or "trust".
Please remind me when he finally got those 6 games in a row since I can't remember that.
When the team play really bad and you have a aging team you think it would be time to give a young player the chance.
how much would Marco Motta cost? 10-15 mil? he seems like the perfect player for us...
and could we sign fredrico marcheti for Abs and ~1-2 mil? seems like a fair deal
Marco Motta have signed for Roma. Can't be signed by another team this year.
Samir Nasri was labeled "the new Zidane." Sofiane Feghouli has been labeled "the new Zidane." Hell, the other day I was reading something about some 6-year-old who has been labeled "the new Zidane!" It all means absolutely nothing.
I can easily name a couple of more. Meghni for example. Unimportant though as media labels is pretty meaningless.
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 01:52
=
Please remind me when he finally got those 6 games in a row since I can't remember that.
I think when Sheva, Kaka', even Pato came here they did not get starting spot automatically. They have to battle with others, impressing coach with limited playing time.
Gabriel489
12-08-2009, 02:22
Sheva came and started right away, and even before Pato came Berlu already said that he will score 50 goals.....thats pretty much means he will start, as at that time, Pippo was in and out of the lineup till March, Gila lost all confidence, RO just can't cut it and R99 was done for the season. As for Kaka, he did not start actually, he subbed a lot of games and realyl broke into the starting 11 as he was the only one who had speed and could dribble past multiple defenders in Milan's midfield at that time.
As for Gourcuff, I thought he played solid when he started for Milan not great but good enough to be part of the rotations. Then he was hit by injury the second year.
Anyway, no point talking about Gourcuff as he will almost certainly never comes back to play for Milan and unless we all become fans of French National Team, no point talking about him.
As for Motta, he will be playing for Roma and unless Roma continues to struggle, he will be there for awhile.
I'm tired argue this Gourcuff story so I won't even go there. If you want to believe 5-10 minutes at the end of a game is enough for a playmaker to win a spot then so be it. We can always continue it in his personal thread. I always said Inter need a player like him and I hope he doesn't go there eventually.
Back to Milan, reports linking us to a fullback are very encouraging as we definitely need at least one for this upcoming season, and one next season as Zambro has already started showing signs of decline. All we're missing are links to a creative CM and I think our squad would be close to complete. We also need to hope Pato plays better than he has been so far this preseason because what I've seen of him hasn't been too pretty.
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 02:39
Oddo need to be sold if we were to get another fullback, said Galliani. I don't understand why there are no rumors about us starting to really negotiate with Lazio about De Silvestri. I mean, we want him, he wants to go, Lotito said he is a greedy player who only thinks about money, combine it together and we get one new young fullback!
Why can't we get another fullback and then try to sell Oddo? Are we really that poor?
Gio-mania
12-08-2009, 04:07
Sheva came and started right away, and even before Pato came Berlu already said that he will score 50 goals.....thats pretty much means he will start, as at that time, Pippo was in and out of the lineup till March, Gila lost all confidence, RO just can't cut it and R99 was done for the season. As for Kaka, he did not start actually, he subbed a lot of games and realyl broke into the starting 11 as he was the only one who had speed and could dribble past multiple defenders in Milan's midfield at that time.
As for Gourcuff, I thought he played solid when he started for Milan not great but good enough to be part of the rotations. Then he was hit by injury the second year.
Anyway, no point talking about Gourcuff as he will almost certainly never comes back to play for Milan and unless we all become fans of French National Team, no point talking about him.
As for Motta, he will be playing for Roma and unless Roma continues to struggle, he will be there for awhile.
Yes.
Sheva was a starter when he joined us, and in fact, was the top Serie A goalscorer of 1999/2000 (his first one).
Kakŕ subbed for Rui Costa during the beginning of his first season, but soon became a starter (and I recall Manuel Rui Costa stating that he accepted being benched because he was aware that Kakŕ was pure class).
As you said, Pato was since the beginning proclaimed to be our new starting forward. He made his debut asap, and showed his class.... as for RO, he was already loaned out to Zaragozza that season (2007/08).
Personally, I feel there is a clear difference in quality between the mentioned Sheva-Kakŕ-Pato and Gourcuff. When bought, those three players were set to be in the first team, apart from Kakŕ (who made it there very quickly, albeit). Gourcuff was bought to be a mere rotation player with future potential. But competing with Kakŕ for the role along with Carletto's well known attitude towards squad-rotation made it difficult for him to play much. While yes, he didnt have much playing time (36 games in two seasons, roughly half starting from the bench), I feel like he doesnt have that STAR quality like Sheva, Kaka and Pato.
A real star is one who plays first team football since he is like 18. Now as said, Gorky could've had more playing time. But I just dont feel he is the next Zidane. Im not saying he is rubbish, but he isnt a star either. He will probably become a good player, but no Zidane. I also suspect he suffers a bit from the Gila-syndrome.
But, he is gone, will never come back. So who gives? Lets look at the (maybe not too bright) future.
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 05:13
Why can't we get another fullback and then try to sell Oddo? Are we really that poor?
It's not about money, but about place. Right now we have:
- Oddo in RB
- Janku in LB
- Antonini and Zambro who could play both
- Bonera in RB who can also play as CB
- Kaladze in LB who can also play as CB
- Favalli who can play as CB, RB, and LB
It's not about they are all quality or not, but it is obvious we need to get rid some of them if our new fullback is to be given a place.
For example if we buy De Silvestri and make him starter, we have roughly 3 or 4 backups for him. That's true we can do rotation but the playing time for those backups will decrease if there are 3 or 4 backups compared to only 2 or 3 backups.
We are not Mierda who buy first then sell, we are Milan who sell then replace (or not), you may look at it positively or negatively.
EDIT: also do not forget, we have Albertazzi. That makes the fullbacks position more crowded (but not in quality, unfortunately).
Revolver
12-08-2009, 05:24
Talking about 3-5-2 formation, well we played something like this when we won the title in 1998/99. It was the only way Zaccheroni could play, with 3 CBs and wing backs.
This was our first 11 back then:
Abbiati - Sala, Costacurta, Maldini - Helveg, Albertini, Ambrosini, Guglielminpietro (Ziege) – Leonardo, Bierhoff, Weah.
It actually was 3-4-3, with easy transformation into 3-4-1-2, as Leonardo could play as as supporting striker/winger and as an attacking midfielder, and it was the way to fit Boban, who was a classic AM, in that formation. For next season (1999/00) Gattuso (!) and Serginho were our new wing backs and Shevchenko replaced Weah. But we were bad that year, as we were eliminated in the first phase of CL, and we had to fight even for the 4th place in Serie A. The season after that (2000/01) was even worse.
The reason for our failure in those seasons mentioned was weak defense. For example, in 1999/00 season, we conceded 40 goals, seven teams conceded less goals. We even had the most efficient attack in the league and we were able to pick just 4th place on the table. The reason why I'm telling all this is that when you want to play in this formation you have to have 3 world-class CBs and 2 amazingly energetic wing backs. Furthermore, Albertini was a class in defense comparing him with Pirlo.
So, no 3-5-2 formation doesn't work, not just for us, but nowhere today.
ACMILAN1983
12-08-2009, 05:26
Galliani has apparently confirmed that Kalac's contract will be rescinded and we'll get Flavio Roma according to goal.com
Not a particularly exciting transfer.
Why can't we get another fullback and then try to sell Oddo? Are we really that poor?
Because we'd have surplus to requirements if we fail to sell Oddo. We'd also have an extra wage to pay (and Oddo's isn't a small wage) and it would make it more difficult for Leo to manage the squad (something you often hear Mou complain about).
Galliani has apparently confirmed that Kalac's contract will be rescinded and we'll get Flavio Roma according to goal.com
Not a particularly exciting transfer.
Not exciting but fine. I believe Roma is twice as good as Kalac, and btw. we're probably talking about third 'keeper so no need to make drama about it...
It's not about they are all quality or not, but it is obvious we need to get rid some of them if our new fullback is to be given a place.
Offcourse we must first get rid of Oddo but to me bigger problem will be finding a buyer for him than to get new fullback.
And next season Favalli should go and then we might buy Zapata (next season he'll gain Italian nationality so he won't be counted as NON-EU)...
Samir Nasri was labeled "the new Zidane." Sofiane Feghouli has been labeled "the new Zidane." Hell, the other day I was reading something about some 6-year-old who has been labeled "the new Zidane!" It all means absolutely nothing.
Offcourse it doesn't mean anything but Gourcuff besides his tehnical abilities is hard worker for the team.
I want to say that he would be first great addition to this new Milan and with Flamini and Gattuso would do much... But no need to talk about him anymore....
The EU thing only counts if you buy a player from outside Italy, I think.
Did Ambro really sign a new contract? I don't remember reading that he did. If so, was it only a one year extension? Also, when does Kaladze's contract expire?
This Dzemaili guy seems half decent, theres a video of him playing for torino against milan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15KY6sZhWQ&feature=related
played well. also has freestyling experience not sure if he does it on the field like a ronaldinho-type player because theres no telling from one video of a few nice tricks he did against milan but he's also been on joga bonito. idk, point is he's not bad and hes only 22 years of age plus we need a creative midfielder.. I think it would be a great signing if we get him at a good price seeing as theres not much hype around him and im sure torino could use the money?
2006/07? I was thinking you talked about his second season. Although Seedorf only performed in UCL that year as he left his more effective midfield position in serie A. Gorcuff was great the first games he played by the way. Starting 18 games, especially over two seasons isn't much, hardly something close to consistancy or "trust".
Please remind me when he finally got those 6 games in a row since I can't remember that.
When the team play really bad and you have a aging team you think it would be time to give a young player the chance.
It was November/December 2006. Go to ESPN Soccernet and find his stats. You can pull up the game log for that season.
And 18 games started might not be much over two seasons, but it represented plenty of opportunities in his first season -- opportunities that he didn't take advantage of to prove he could be anything special in Serie A. As I said before, for whatever reason, he was no longer in Carlo's plans. At the time his loan deal was signed, nobody had reason to believe that Milan would be making a coaching change the following summer. So what reason was there to refuse to loan him out back to France where he could continue his development (even knowing a transfer option had to be included)? For that matter, even halfway or more through the past season nobody knew if Bordeaux could afford such a hefty transfer fee. The only reason they could was because they made the Champions League. Who could have predicted that last summer? I know some will say it was largely due to Gourcuff that Bordeaux finished so well in Ligue 1, but I say that had he played half as well for Milan when he had the opportunity he never would have been loaned out in the first place.
The fact is that Milan made a tidy profit on Gourcuff. Some have said he was worth more than the 15 million euros agreed upon in the loan deal based on potential. But didn't he have the same potential when Milan bought him for 3.5 million euros two years before? So why did Milan get him so cheap? By the time he was loaned to Bordeaux, there were more questions about him than there had been when Milan bought him from Rennes. So Milan made an 11.5 million euro profit on him. And they used the transfer fee they received for him to buy Huntelaar -- a far more proven player -- in this summer of our discontent. Was that really such an awful trade-off?
The EU thing only counts if you buy a player from outside Italy, I think.
Did Ambro really sign a new contract? I don't remember reading that he did. If so, was it only a one year extension? Also, when does Kaladze's contract expire?
That's correct. If the player is already in Italy, he doesn't count against your non-EU limit.
I didn't see that Ambro had actually signed a new deal, but there were stories a couple of months ago that he would sign a new one-year extension and Silvio was quoted as saying that a one-year extension would be no problem. So apparently it's going to happen if it hasn't already. And Kaladze's contract expires next summer.
Hasan Rossonero
12-08-2009, 07:03
I'm ambivalent about Gourcuff. On the one hand I think he did not show his quality when he got the chance, so I do agree with Rick. He seemed really slow every time I saw him play. However, Milan's lack of patience is symptomatic of Milan's philosophy towards youngsters. Not everyone can be a Pato the first season. We also insisted on playing Seedorf time and time again. In the 2006/07 season, I could tolerate this preferential treatment. But in the 2007/08 season, we should have really done more for Gourcuff. I think it is really galling that we are now stuck with a jaded Seedorf while Gourcuff is being heralded as THE talent in French football.
In short, yes, Gourcuff did not show his quality, but we should not have loaned him to Bordeaux. We should have had a bit more patience.
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 07:30
Move on please, guys... no point in talking him now, use another thread please...
Warro Bantan
12-08-2009, 07:49
Thanks Boban....I hope they listen to u....they certainly have paid me no attention....maybe becuz I didn't say "please"? :dontkn:
Rossoneri Fuego
12-08-2009, 08:04
yea or else there going to bring up kaka' again^^^
for me 18 games over 2 years is nothing..
although i agree that normally there was no place for him,as we had gr8 amcs..but the following season i ve got a feeling that we re going to feel sorry we lost him,as noone is who they used to be(dinho,seedorf,kaka's gone)..and you dont have to be fortune teller to see that..
Just let it go, man. It is good for you this way. Trust me. It is not worth it at all. :u56:
No worries, Xu, my altercation with truly relevant people ended exactly 12 pages ago, I'm not going to bother digging up old graves again. For the actually respectable posters on this forum, I'll do what I can to keep myself in check.
Roma's signing is a welcome piece of news, for significance, if nothing else. We're starting to lose some of the really weak and ageing pieces of deadwood on the bench and beyond. Imo, this can only be good for the team.
Gabriel489
12-08-2009, 08:43
Why r u guys still on this Gourcuff thing?
Was it a good deal for Milan at this time? Yes
Will Milan looks stupid in a few years time? Yes, barring no major injury to Gourcuff. He will be just like how Davids, Veira and Ayala before. He might not reach the height of ZZ, but he will probably be one of the best playmaker for the next 10 years.
Was it a mistake from Milan? NO, it was not. As judging by Gourcuff's play prior to last season, he is no where near the 15mil value.
Could Milan done more to keep Gourcuff? Yes, as at least from Gourcuff, he never felt like he was part of Milan when he was on loan.
Hopefully this will be the last mistake the MGT makes in regards to young talented players.
Vieira never got a chance, same as Gourcuff, both Davids & Ayala were unsuccessful in Milan imo.
tim_milan
12-08-2009, 09:32
lol...well said curci...about oddo...i m wondering whose going to buy him..
I always knew a keeper was always coming but not that this deal s been done yet. The medicals have still to take place.
I thinks this deal is pretty decent in the sense that he s atleast better than Kalac i guess. We havent spent big money. So i feel its a fair deal also considering the fact that Abiatti and Dida are not in the best shape.
As much as i enjoy knocking management for their ineptitude i think the jury is still out on yohan. I've seen many many players look like they walked on water in France only to be brought back down to earth in any of the big leagues. Granted this phenomenon isn't unique to any one league but the gulf in results may be attributed to MANY factors. These include the tighter defenses in italy, yohan's own improvements different coach and tactical setup. But pato and kaka both had to prove their worth to the team. Kaka had to dethrone a superstar while Pato had to put up with frequent and often unexplainable benching by ancelotti. Both overcame their odds. At the time of his being overlooked, seedorf was on fire so i can't really fault anyone. Only that carlo should have given him more playing time over the likes of Emerson and brocchi. On a side note it disturbs me deeply that Pato was willing to play ANYWHERE for Ancelotti but not for Leo. I wonder if he is really in charge of the dressing room
Thanks Boban....I hope they listen to u....they certainly have paid me no attention....maybe becuz I didn't say "please"? :dontkn:
Sorry Warro. I only got involved because I get frustrated that so many just won't leave it alone and my purpose was to state a case for why it's not worth worrying about. Obviously it's useless, so I've said my last on the subject. :gun:
Christian
12-08-2009, 09:43
Check this out, from www.goal.com/it/ (http://www.goal.com/it/news/7/calciomercato/2009/08/12/1436511/real-van-der-vaart-gli-spagnoli-dovrebbero-lasciarlo-andare)
Real Madrid may have to be forced to let go by Rafael Van der Vaart pocket without even one euro!
E 'questo il pensiero di Wil van Megen, Advocate as part of the union of professional players, that the Real Madrid has no right to ask for money for the sale of Dutch.
The reason? A Van der Vaart was not even given by a Real Madrid jersey number, a warning that the Spaniards are not respecting the contract that still binds to the Dutch merengues.
Would be funny if they had to sell him for free. Wouldn't be to surprising either, the Real Madrid management has showed earlier that they are completly brain dead.
'The Bulldog'
12-08-2009, 09:43
What's intriguing....what is mgt planning to do with the two Uruguay players: Cardacio Mathias and Viudez??
They can't remain in the squad for another year, it's better off for them and the club to loan them out...
Warro Bantan
12-08-2009, 10:21
The Guardian´s Rumor Mill http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/12/football-transfer-rumours-sol-campbell has a snippit at the very end, which reads:
Finally, Villa have been mentioned so little in relation to transfers this summer that it only seems fair we end with another datum about them. Er, Wesley Sneijder has rejected them. He's off to Milan instead.
Wonder how close to the truth that is?
warro i think they mean he's off to milan(for inter),there are a lot of rumors today about inter agreeing a loan transfer, with buy-out clause,with real..
to be honest i think that inter will eventually get him..
Milano84
12-08-2009, 10:40
As much as i enjoy knocking management for their ineptitude i think the jury is still out on yohan. I've seen many many players look like they walked on water in France only to be brought back down to earth in any of the big leagues. Granted this phenomenon isn't unique to any one league but the gulf in results may be attributed to MANY factors. These include the tighter defenses in italy, yohan's own improvements different coach and tactical setup. But pato and kaka both had to prove their worth to the team. Kaka had to dethrone a superstar while Pato had to put up with frequent and often unexplainable benching by ancelotti. Both overcame their odds. At the time of his being overlooked, seedorf was on fire so i can't really fault anyone. Only that carlo should have given him more playing time over the likes of Emerson and brocchi. On a side note it disturbs me deeply that Pato was willing to play ANYWHERE for Ancelotti but not for Leo. I wonder if he is really in charge of the dressing room
I will 1000% agree on this. I think he's a good player, who actually would suit our new tactics MUCH more. What bothers me is a replacement has not been brought.
Leo wants to do a 4-3-3, maybe a 4-3-1-2, but w/ central midfielders who push more. In the 4-3-3 gourcuff could thrive because the playmaker plays in cm. he could link up beautifully w/ ronaldinho for example. As of how i have real questions whether we have enough creativity, namely players who can dribble or run at defenders from midfield. Pirlo is an amazing passer, but will not beat a player on dribble. Seedorf used to be able to but he's slowed down and he's more about passing than taking on defenders. Flamini, fast, again technically limited, ambrosini, smart... not going to beat his man that way, and gattuso well, its not his role. What seperated barca's 4-3-3 is having midfielders like xavi and iniesta who can constantly move ball up to attack in multiple ways. Where as when inter tried it (along w/ lacking decent wide attackers... something we DO have), they couldnt cause of lack of midfield creativity.
Gourcuff decided to stay. Thats fine with me, he clearly was afraid of the challenge. But what bugs me is a replacement hasnt come. What about van der vaart (maybe he'll come), sneijder would be ideal. Hernanes (what happened to him), joao moutinho (great player we were once linkeD). The list goes on.... we just need to add someone so when we playe pirlo and a DM we have 1 more creator who has some pace and dribbling skill.
dru,
on the note of carlo and pato. Did you happen to see the seedorf special on fox soccer channel. They have this new program "Center circle" where they sit down and interview players and last week was seedorf. Its really impossible to hate him after hearing him speak, he's a great person. He spoke a bit about his charities and what he's trying to accomplish but the bulk of the interview was football related.
one question was "are you sad to see carlo go?" and he responded NO. He said, in football sometimes a change is needed, he loved carlo as a coach and a friend, but carlo was in need of a new challenge and it might be best thing for milan. He also said leo is capable and it'll take time for them to adjust playing style because they all spent 7 years under carlo, playing 1 way. I was surprised by the answer but its true.
Milano84
12-08-2009, 10:41
warro i think they mean he's off to milan(for inter),there are a lot of rumors today about inter agreeing a loan transfer, with buy-out clause,with real..
to be honest i think that inter will eventually get him..
i agree, but i think its wrong move for both him and inter.
objectively... inter need van der vaart more (he's more adept to playing #10 in a 4-3-1-2.... and we need sneijder (who is more of a creative CM to play in 4-3-3)
i'd love it to be true, you never know.... huntelaar came out of nowhere
_MaJi_tz
12-08-2009, 11:02
There was bad news for full-back Lorenzo De Silvestri, who sustained a knee injury just seven minutes in today gamen against Russia
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 11:05
On a side note it disturbs me deeply that Pato was willing to play ANYWHERE for Ancelotti but not for Leo. I wonder if he is really in charge of the dressing room
What was Pato saying? That he can't play as a real striker and opt to be a second striker? Hmm... you clearly hit some point there.
i agree, but i think its wrong move for both him and inter.
objectively... inter need van der vaart more (he's more adept to playing #10 in a 4-3-1-2.... and we need sneijder (who is more of a creative CM to play in 4-3-3)
i'd love it to be true, you never know.... huntelaar came out of nowhere
Actually we were chasing Dzeko, then Huntelaar, then Fabiano, then Huntelaar again... But still, I agree with you, I'd happily take Sneijder or VDV or maybe both.
@Warro: don't worry, it's same for me, I've said same thing about 4 or 5 times... and you see now, still...
Milano84
12-08-2009, 11:08
There was bad news for full-back Lorenzo De Silvestri, who sustained a knee injury just seven minutes in today gamen against Russia
might be good news in lowering a fee. He appears set on milan, and lazio want more cash than oddo. I expect he'll be one of those august 31st transfers.
he has stated he does NOT want lazio
Filipéz 182
12-08-2009, 11:10
looks like beckham will return!
Milano84
12-08-2009, 11:10
Actually we were chasing Dzeko, then Huntelaar, then Fabiano, then Huntelaar again... But still, I agree with you, I'd happily take Sneijder or VDV or maybe both.
@Warro: don't worry, it's same for me, I've said same thing about 4 or 5 times... and you see now, still...
i thought fabiano was kind of always a smokescreen. Why buy a soon to be 29 year old when u say you want to go younger?
anyway on the pato front, i think he'll go 1 day. He seems set on wanting to prove himself in all leagues... which is fine. Atleast he hasnt tried to say 'i want milan for life' yaddayaddayadda. I only hope if we did sell him we'd go for guiseppe rossi and dzeko.... that would be a great partnership for milan for year to come... both want to be at milan
Filipéz 182
12-08-2009, 11:13
inter will get Sneijder, we will get 35yo beckham... our management is so fcking brilliant sometimes
Beckham torna al Milan per conquistare i Mondiali
18:02 del 12 agosto
(Foto: Valerio Pennicino / GRAZIA NERI) David Beckham tornerŕ a giocare nel Milan. Dopo che il ct dell'Inghilterra Fabio Capello ha ribadito allo Spice Boy che dovrŕ trovarsi una squadra in Europa per il prossimo inverno se vorrŕ far parte della nazionale inglese che andrŕ ai Mondiali sudafricani, l'ipotesi di un suo ritorno in rossonero si fa sempre piů concreta. Stando al "Daily Mirror", nonostante Tottenham e Chelsea abbiano manifestato il proprio interesse per i suoi servizi, il Milan si sarebbe giŕ mosso per riportare il centrocampista inglese in rossonero per un secondo prestito a partire da gennaio. "Non c'č nessun accordo ma il Milan ha detto chiaramente che un ritorno di David sarebbe gradito - commenta un portavoce dello Spice Boy - In questo momento č ancora presto per parlare di trattative tra Milan e Galaxy ma il fatto che Beckham debba giocare in un campionato europeo importante č stato confermato da Capello".
inter will get Sneijder, we will get 35yo beckham... our management is so fcking brilliant sometimes
Beckham torna al Milan per conquistare i Mondiali
18:02 del 12 agosto
(Foto: Valerio Pennicino / GRAZIA NERI) David Beckham tornerŕ a giocare nel Milan. Dopo che il ct dell'Inghilterra Fabio Capello ha ribadito allo Spice Boy che dovrŕ trovarsi una squadra in Europa per il prossimo inverno se vorrŕ far parte della nazionale inglese che andrŕ ai Mondiali sudafricani, l'ipotesi di un suo ritorno in rossonero si fa sempre piů concreta. Stando al "Daily Mirror", nonostante Tottenham e Chelsea abbiano manifestato il proprio interesse per i suoi servizi, il Milan si sarebbe giŕ mosso per riportare il centrocampista inglese in rossonero per un secondo prestito a partire da gennaio. "Non c'č nessun accordo ma il Milan ha detto chiaramente che un ritorno di David sarebbe gradito - commenta un portavoce dello Spice Boy - In questo momento č ancora presto per parlare di trattative tra Milan e Galaxy ma il fatto che Beckham debba giocare in un campionato europeo importante č stato confermato da Capello".
Beckham is such a pain in the ass, get away from Milan your not 24 anymore.
If Van Der Vaart could really go for free, maybe Milan can pick him up, one last gift for the Kaka deal from Madrid. Or we'll probaby get Beckham instead.
Samaldinho
12-08-2009, 11:48
From football-italia.com
Milan-owned Davide Di Gennaro was given a new Andrea Pirlo-style role in front of the defence, but struggled to settle down.
I hope we can get VdV on a free from Madrid, that would make me so happy. No just because he's free, that's a bonus, but mostly because it's from Madrid. I hate that team so much, I hope they lose every game.
Christian
12-08-2009, 11:51
dru,
on the note of carlo and pato. Did you happen to see the seedorf special on fox soccer channel. They have this new program "Center circle" where they sit down and interview players and last week was seedorf. Its really impossible to hate him after hearing him speak, he's a great person. He spoke a bit about his charities and what he's trying to accomplish but the bulk of the interview was football related.
one question was "are you sad to see carlo go?" and he responded NO. He said, in football sometimes a change is needed, he loved carlo as a coach and a friend, but carlo was in need of a new challenge and it might be best thing for milan. He also said leo is capable and it'll take time for them to adjust playing style because they all spent 7 years under carlo, playing 1 way. I was surprised by the answer but its true.
Agreed.
Do you happen to have a link to the interview? I would love to see it.
Milano84
12-08-2009, 11:54
Agreed.
Do you happen to have a link to the interview? I would love to see it.
i have searched a few times... can't find it. Do you live in the usa? I think its re-airing today on FSC.
atleast i saw at 330 (my time, california) on the programming guide so i set my recorder. It was a half hour interview w/ nick webster on a wide array of subjects
Christian
12-08-2009, 11:59
i have searched a few times... can't find it. Do you live in the usa? I think its re-airing today on FSC.
atleast i saw at 330 (my time, california) on the programming guide so i set my recorder. It was a half hour interview w/ nick webster on a wide array of subjects
Nope, I supose it'lll resurface on the net at some point. Will keep an eye after it.
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 13:00
isnt the whole purpose of a loan deal to get a player more playing time to show what they can actually do? and Gourcuff willed his team to a championship, the first one in many years. Comparing him to ZZ is a little much, but he could have been Seedorf from 5-10 years ago...
Milano84
12-08-2009, 13:03
isnt the whole purpose of a loan deal to get a player more playing time to show what they can actually do? and Gourcuff willed his team to a championship, the first one in many years. Comparing him to ZZ is a little much, but he could have been Seedorf from 5-10 years ago...
sometimes you loan a player because you want to sell them but offers of value aren't coming but they must leave...
Cassano to sampdoria
quaresma to chelsea
the gourcuff scenerio wasnt this
I will 1000% agree on this. I think he's a good player, who actually would suit our new tactics MUCH more. What bothers me is a replacement has not been brought.
Leo wants to do a 4-3-3, maybe a 4-3-1-2, but w/ central midfielders who push more. In the 4-3-3 gourcuff could thrive because the playmaker plays in cm. he could link up beautifully w/ ronaldinho for example. As of how i have real questions whether we have enough creativity, namely players who can dribble or run at defenders from midfield. Pirlo is an amazing passer, but will not beat a player on dribble. Seedorf used to be able to but he's slowed down and he's more about passing than taking on defenders. Flamini, fast, again technically limited, ambrosini, smart... not going to beat his man that way, and gattuso well, its not his role. What seperated barca's 4-3-3 is having midfielders like xavi and iniesta who can constantly move ball up to attack in multiple ways. Where as when inter tried it (along w/ lacking decent wide attackers... something we DO have), they couldnt cause of lack of midfield creativity.
Gourcuff decided to stay. Thats fine with me, he clearly was afraid of the challenge. But what bugs me is a replacement hasnt come. What about van der vaart (maybe he'll come), sneijder would be ideal. Hernanes (what happened to him), joao moutinho (great player we were once linkeD). The list goes on.... we just need to add someone so when we playe pirlo and a DM we have 1 more creator who has some pace and dribbling skill.
dru,
on the note of carlo and pato. Did you happen to see the seedorf special on fox soccer channel. They have this new program "Center circle" where they sit down and interview players and last week was seedorf. Its really impossible to hate him after hearing him speak, he's a great person. He spoke a bit about his charities and what he's trying to accomplish but the bulk of the interview was football related.
one question was "are you sad to see carlo go?" and he responded NO. He said, in football sometimes a change is needed, he loved carlo as a coach and a friend, but carlo was in need of a new challenge and it might be best thing for milan. He also said leo is capable and it'll take time for them to adjust playing style because they all spent 7 years under carlo, playing 1 way. I was surprised by the answer but its true.
Huh :confused: i always liked Clarence. I'm one of the few Seedorf fans on R&B/MM.
Milano84
12-08-2009, 13:06
Huh :confused: i always liked Clarence. I'm one of the few Seedorf fans on R&B/MM.
sorry my point was there isnt as much distress in milan locker room over carlo leaving. Seedorf was 1 of biggest carletto fans and he's fine. The older players know...
pato is young and naive
sorry my point was there isnt as much distress in milan locker room over carlo leaving. Seedorf was 1 of biggest carletto fans and he's fine. The older players know...
pato is young and naive
Reeeeeealy o/t but do you know giancarlo "came out" on goal.com :eekani: ? That guy has serious issues :wth:
kastriot
12-08-2009, 13:45
Reeeeeealy o/t but do you know giancarlo "came out" on goal.com :eekani: ? That guy has serious issues :wth:
can u be more specific???:guw:
Flavio Roma officially a Milan player. Kalac is released. It is on www.acmilan.com.
Filipéz 182
12-08-2009, 14:36
Flavio Roma officially a Milan player. Kalac is released. It is on www.acmilan.com.
we rule the market! :D
Rossoneri Fuego
12-08-2009, 14:55
it looks like we will get 1 again Robben,Sneijder,VDV i just hope we dont use our last E.U. spot on a couple of nobody's cardaccio viudez should all be gone, they both cant play anything on the field, i havent even seen em on the bench in the pre season atleast ONCE! i hope we can get a WB, i have no idea why the hell kala did not get sold, too bad lorenzo got hurt today hope it's nothing serious, i really think we will get gareth bale he'll be good world class? only time will tell and im not talking about 1 year either...
and about this 4-3-1-2 fellas it looks like we either are too slow or dont have enough attack why? well we have 3 defensive midfielders and i dont know if anybody's noticed but thats the same exact formation jose mourinho runs ..... anyways i think 4-2-3-1, or a italian 433 would work, but pirlo has to be the engine in midfield and R80 and Pato have to play on the wings and hunterlaar has to play up top alone, but it's a new league for him and country so i hope people dont go on a rampage and start ripping em for not scoring 6 goals, in the first 2 games aganst Siena,Inter but i actually have a good feeling we will get new players before the transfer market ends .. trust me it has been a horrible summer for all us but we almost made it through....
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 15:15
if we could have kept Gourcuff we could have put up a lineup of-
------Abs------
Zambro-Nesta-Silva-New LB
------Pirlo-------
Flamini------------Gourcuff
---------R80------------
Huntelaar--Pato
there is our diamond formation, and with the players to potentially make it work
Warro Bantan
12-08-2009, 15:20
^^^^No really...why are we still talking about Gourcuff?
Warro Bantan
12-08-2009, 15:21
Reeeeeealy o/t but do you know giancarlo "came out" on goal.com :eekani: ? That guy has serious issues :wth: Huh :dontkn:
Rossoneri Fuego
12-08-2009, 15:34
hey let's talk about gourcuff haha relax just some comic relief
Come on people, time to let Gourcouff go. Our management made a decision which at the time they thought was right. It turned out he had a good season, but i bet when we first loaned him from the few performances he put in for us, everyone would have hoped Bordeaux paid the E15m. Don't get me wrong i liked him, but he is no longer a Milan player there is no point making teams with him in or saying how we would be playing, otherwise we could pick teams for players who could play for us or include Kaka (if he had stayed).
I hope we sign Sneijder and De Silvestri, if we do it is a move in the right direction for rejuvinating the team. i do not agree with Kaka's or Gourcouff's sale but hopefully we can build from it.
I wish we had have gone for players such as Cigarini, Criscito, etc.
We have to remember we survived when people like Baresi, Rijkaard, Gullit, Van Basten, Weah, Shevchenko left and unfortunately this year is going to be a transitional year. People like Kalac (who has now gone), Dida, Kaladze, Oddo, Inzaghi are all due for the contracts to expire soon and in all honesty i don't see them being given new ones.
Yes it would be easy to cancel their contracts but we would have to pay them and then find replacements for a cost (plus wages). I think next year we will see Milan make an impact on the transfer market.
So heres hoping for 2010 :kap:
Milano84
12-08-2009, 15:45
it looks like we will get 1 again Robben,Sneijder,VDV i just hope we dont use our last E.U. spot on a couple of nobody's cardaccio viudez should all be gone, they both cant play anything on the field, i havent even seen em on the bench in the pre season atleast ONCE! i hope we can get a WB, i have no idea why the hell kala did not get sold, too bad lorenzo got hurt today hope it's nothing serious, i really think we will get gareth bale he'll be good world class? only time will tell and im not talking about 1 year either...
and about this 4-3-1-2 fellas it looks like we either are too slow or dont have enough attack why? well we have 3 defensive midfielders and i dont know if anybody's noticed but thats the same exact formation jose mourinho runs ..... anyways i think 4-2-3-1, or a italian 433 would work, but pirlo has to be the engine in midfield and R80 and Pato have to play on the wings and hunterlaar has to play up top alone, but it's a new league for him and country so i hope people dont go on a rampage and start ripping em for not scoring 6 goals, in the first 2 games aganst Siena,Inter but i actually have a good feeling we will get new players before the transfer market ends .. trust me it has been a horrible summer for all us but we almost made it through....
i dont think you fully understand the rule...
The rule is each team is allowed to register 2 new NONeu players a season.
You can have an ulimited number of eu players. With the european union working laws, employers are not allowed to discriminate on nationality. IE our whole team could be spanish or german or italian.
The NONEU rule also doesnt apply to players who are already in italy (with work permits). So juve signing felipe melo does not count. Diego also doesnt count cause he has italian passport.
Finally alot of foreign players carry EU passports to not count. Case and point; cardaccio has an italian passport cause of lineage. onyweu has a Belgian one cause he played there so long. Last year our 2 nonEU spots went to vuidez and shevchenko.
So far this year we have used one by registering thiago silva. If you remember, when we signed him in january, we did not have any nonEU spots available. so he counts for this season. But as far as vandervaart or others.... we can sign as many as we want
i dont think you fully understand the rule...
The rule is each team is allowed to register 2 new NONeu players a season.
You can have an ulimited number of eu players. With the european union working laws, employers are not allowed to discriminate on nationality. IE our whole team could be spanish or german or italian.
The NONEU rule also doesnt apply to players who are already in italy (with work permits). So juve signing felipe melo does not count. Diego also doesnt count cause he has italian passport.
Finally alot of foreign players carry EU passports to not count. Case and point; cardaccio has an italian passport cause of lineage. onyweu has a Belgian one cause he played there so long. Last year our 2 nonEU spots went to vuidez and shevchenko.
So far this year we have used one by registering thiago silva. If you remember, when we signed him in january, we did not have any nonEU spots available. so he counts for this season. But as far as vandervaart or others.... we can sign as many as we want
I think there is something that is missunderstood there too ... :D
Actually, you can buy 2 non-EU players per season (there were talks to allow to buy 3 ...). Like you said, non-EU players who are already in Italy don't count in these 2 allowed purchases.
BUT you can register 3 non-EU players in your team. Last year, we had Sheva, Viudez, and ... and ... ummmmh ... (damn, I can't remember) if I'm not wrong. It's why Thiago Silva couldn't play from January.
So, to make it short: 2 non-EU purchases per season and it is possible to register 3 non-EU players in a team.
PS: So if Viudez stays in Milan, he will still be registered like a non-EU player for this season.
Huh :dontkn:
De fish bway yah fi run way fi confess :o
Milano84
12-08-2009, 15:57
I think there is something that is missunderstood there too ... :D
Actually, you can buy 2 non-EU players per season (there were talks to allow to buy 3 ...). Like you said, non-EU players who are already in Italy don't count in these 2 allowed purchases.
BUT you can register 3 non-EU players in your team. Last year, we had Sheva, Viudez, and ... and ... ummmmh ... (damn, I can't remember) if I'm not wrong. It's why Thiago Silva couldn't play from January.
So, to make it short: 2 non-EU purchases per season and it is possible to register 3 non-EU players in a team.
PS: So if Viudez stays in Milan, he will still be registered like a non-EU player.
i think thats wrong... once they r registered... they r registered. It has to do w/ work permits. you are granted 2 new ones a year MAX. So players who are already in italy, have them therefor if they move teams its not a big deal.... and if u can find EU heritage and get an EU passport you don't count either...
i actually have a friend who is going to play basketball in italy.... he's american, but hiso grandparents immigrated from italy, he was able to get an italian passport so not to count against teams rule....
the only 3 noneu's is not a rule.... otherwise inter wouldnt legally work lol
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i think thats wrong... once they r registered... they r registered. It has to do w/ work permits. you are granted 2 new ones a year MAX. So players who are already in italy, have them therefor if they move teams its not a big deal.... and if u can find EU heritage and get an EU passport you don't count either...
i actually have a friend who is going to play basketball in italy.... he's american, but hiso grandparents immigrated from italy, he was able to get an italian passport so not to count against teams rule....
the only 3 noneu's is not a rule.... otherwise inter wouldnt legally work lol
They maybe found an "Italian heritage" to all their players ?? :D
I just found something actually:
Italy: 2 purchases - no limit in a team
Spain: no limit - 3 non-EU players, registered in another team the year before, in a team (so actually, it's like a limit ... ??)
Netherlands: no limit - no limit in a team
England: no limit - no limit, you need a work permit
France: no limit - 4 non-EU players in a team
Germany: no limit - no limit (they can only have 3 players registered in another team ... ??)
johncharles365
12-08-2009, 16:46
A.C. MILAN OFFICIAL NOTE
8/12/2009
MILAN - A.C. Milan communicate that the working relationship with the footballer Zeljko Kalac has been mutually terminated. To thank him for what he showed during his experience with the Rossoneri, Milan wish Kalac all the best for the future.
A.C. Milan also communicated they have bought Flavio Roma, who has signed a contract until 30 June 2010, from A.S. Monaco.
Thanks for all the, er, hard work Kalac ...
Christian
12-08-2009, 17:42
I watched my team, Denmark, lose to an impressive Chile team earlier today. Was a great game, and the reason I'm writing about it is that Simon Kjćr, who we've been linked with, had a really impresive game for Denmark.
This time Daniel Agger didn't play because of an injury (as usual), but even without a world class CB next to him, Kjćr really looked solid. He was even the CB that carried the ball out of the defense, which he did really well, maybe not aswell as Agger does, but still very confidently.
Earlier when I watched him for Palermo against Inter I wasn't to impressed, but lately after watching him starting and playing well for Denmark, first against Sweden and then against Chile, I'm starting to be really impressed by this guy, especially considering he's only 20.
Anyways, he's staying one more year in Palermo, and it'll be interesting to see how he does. It seems to me like he could turn out to become a great defender.Even if he does have a wonder season, he still has a 12M euro release clause as far as I know, so he'll be available for that regardless.
Milano84
12-08-2009, 17:47
i heard kjaer has his heart set on going to epl. Is that true...?
boing boing
12-08-2009, 18:06
Getting players from Palermo will be very difficult, simply because of the wily owner Zamparini. Post-calciopoli, he had said that he finds it difficult to see that Milan didn't get adequate punishment because we had allegedly bribed referees. He kept up with this kind of attitude. In 07-08 when Milan played at Palermo and after the match when Palermo directors came to shake hands with Galliani, he refused and told them that they weren't football people. Relations haven't improved since then.
This strain in relations doesn't discount the fact that Zamparini is the biggest a$$ in Serie A too.
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 18:11
Getting players from Palermo will be very difficult, simply because of the wily owner Zamparini. Post-calciopoli, he had said that he finds it difficult to see that Milan didn't get adequate punishment because we had allegedly bribed referees. He kept up with this kind of attitude. In 07-08 when Milan played at Palermo and after the match when Palermo directors came to shake hands with Galliani, he refused and told them that they weren't football people. Relations haven't improved since then.
This strain in relations doesn't discount the fact that Zamparini is the biggest a$$ in Serie A too.
but if there is a buyout clause they have to honor it right?
Milano84
12-08-2009, 18:25
its more than just that, pre2005 zampirni was begging people to buy luca toni. He offered him to galliani discounted... and galliani said something to effect 'it would be a disgrace to milan shirt for some1 like luca toni to wear it'
I don't think this Zamparini guy likes us at all. :D And I have also heard about Galliani's hurtful comments regarding Toni. I don't think Galliani should/would ask for more insults which he probably deserves though. :D
Sorry guys, I hope this is the last post (By me anyway) on Gourcuff.
No, it was you who misinterpreted what I said. When I said Ligue 1 was an inferior league, I was speaking in relation to Serie A. I was not saying that Ligue 1 completely sucked or that good players did not come from there (good players can come from any league). But Ligue 1 is a league that good players move from. Serie A is a league that good players move to. That's why I answered you like I did.
If youre only point by stating ligue 1 was inferior to Seria A then what was the point in stating the obvious?? When Oneywu signed for us, the whole reason people questioned the Belgian league and the signing was because they thought the Belgian league was that poor. I could only assume you were trying to make a similar point, because what would be the point otherwise??
Samir Nasri was labeled "the new Zidane." Sofiane Feghouli has been labeled "the new Zidane." Hell, the other day I was reading something about some 6-year-old who has been labeled "the new Zidane!" It all means absolutely nothing.
Yeah yeah yeah, like I said some of these players seem to be delivering on the promise and Gourcuff's performances show he is more than just the latest gimic. I dont see anyone offering 15m for Meghni!
You were claiming that those who disagreed with you were purporting to see the future, when in fact I was saying that nobody knows the future. And again, when Milan signed Gourcuff, I was one of his biggest backers (if you were as well, that's fine). But that doesn't change the fact that he did nothing in a Milan jersey to justify any particular confidence.
Nothing?? Thats your version of your truth. I saw a player with movement, guile and intelligence. I saw a player score on his CL debut. I saw a player try to move around the midfield. I saw potential. As much as it hurts you to admit it, some people saw a player for the future. If you didnt, that your opinion. But I am entitled to mine and for the umteenth time - we will see!!
Well you keep mentioning that they should have done more, so tell me -- what should they have done? Should they have absolutely guaranteed him a spot in the starting lineup no matter how he played (even in the face of his previous failure in Serie A)? Should they have gotten down on their knees and begged him? Should they have given him half ownership in the team? Provided him with a different Italian prostitute every night? What do you suggest?
Why not guarantee him a starting place. Any fool knows he will have play well to keep it. If Wenger could lie to Klinsman and say he will make a powerful duo with Weah just before selling Weah to Milan then surely we could have encouraged Gourcuff a little more. And if Gourcuff was adamant on staying at Bordeux for another year before the world cup, we could have extended the loan. From Bordeux's point of view, we could have sweetened the pot a little with players we are supposedly desperate to get rid of - Dida, Oddo, Kaladze, Vuidez, Cardaccio e.t.c. Anybody remember how many players we loaned to A.Madrid? Oh and the prostitute would have been busy with a certain O.A.P.
The deal was forged more than a year ago. Milan had no legal recourse. It was up to Bordeaux to meet the fee that had been agreed upon and it was up to Gourcuff to decide to accept a contract with Bordeaux. I just don't know what you expected to happen.
Like I said there were options available if Milan wanted to keep him.
How is it material what he does in the future -- from this point on -- considering he is not a Milan player? That boat has sailed and the only thing that will change is how much you and others who want to worry about Gourcuff will agonize over what you see as losing something. As far as I'm concerned, that's immaterial.
Because whether you like it or not, any discussion about young players will involve the word 'potential' and what he may do in the future. Its ridiculous to think otherwise.
And as far as the boat sailing, has it sailed in the same was as Shevchenko who returned? The player has Milan history and when he plays against us the media will bring this back up. So you cant hid from him. Who knows he may even find his way back to Milanello.
Which is exactly what I'm doing. I don't like the fact that so many can't let go of this Gourcuff thing and can't rid themselves of the sort of negativity that makes me wonder why they even bother to pay attention to a sport and a team that makes them so miserable and unhappy. So I'm saying it.
If you dont like my posts, tough, Im not going to change a thing.
And I find it hypocritical that you would b1tch and moan about my b1tching and moaning over all the b1tching and moaning you're doing considering how much b1tching and moaning you're actually doing. ;)
At least I dont try and enforce my opinions on others.
And when I said "I don't know what to say to you" I was speaking of one specific subtopic in this conversation -- a subtopic that I said nothing further about. :w157:
So in other words, when you have no answer to a certain subtopic, that is your get out clause.
By the way, Di Silvestre suffered a knee injury today in the u21 match. So not sure how bad it is and whether the transfer will go ahead. Pleased to see him starting for the u21s though.
Rossoneri Fuego
12-08-2009, 19:23
Leaving Real Madrid In Order To Join Inter Is Not An Option - Wesley Sneijder
The Dutch midfielder has made it clear that he's going nowhere...
12 Aug 2009 22:19:05
The future of Dutch midfielder Wesley Sneijder remains uncertain after the creative playmaker has reacted in a negative manner to rumours linking him with Italian champions Inter.
Earlier on Wednesday a report from Italy emerged that Inter had reached an agreement with Real Madrid to sign Sneijder on a one-year loan deal for €7 million.
The former Ajax star knows nothing of such an agreement though and has made it clear that he's not interested in leaving Madrid in order to move to the Milanese outfit.
"I'll return to Madrid tomorrow and I'm not aware of any agreements between Inter and Real. I'm not interested in joining Inter as I'm keen to stay in Spain and prove my worth at Real. I'll fight for my place, even though the competition is harsh," said Sneijder to SBS6 after the friendly match between Holland and England.
Spanish newspaper Marca claimed earlier this week that Real were planning to offload four more players before the start of the new league season, with Sneijder being one of those four.
Stefan Coerts, Goal.com
Inter will always be a 2nd banana team in Italia hahaha
Milano84
12-08-2009, 20:51
The this g with the gourcuff clause was if he didn't want to move at any point he would havebeen sold irregardless of 15 mil or not. IMO carlo ruined his opiion of Milan but he still could have comeback and prove himself. Clearly he didn't have the balls. Pity he'd start.
I love carlo but hesnot best at nurturing talent. Maybe it's the constant pressure here whereas say fergie or wenger have job security at there clubs so they feel more inclined to think longterm.
Anywy what I don't get is y we haven't replaced gorcuff yet?? A cm/am seedorf type is needed. Someone to rotate with clarence who will be 34 and pirlo who is 30 and played ALOT of games
Leaving Real Madrid In Order To Join Inter Is Not An Option - Wesley Sneijder
The Dutch midfielder has made it clear that he's going nowhere...
12 Aug 2009 22:19:05
The future of Dutch midfielder Wesley Sneijder remains uncertain after the creative playmaker has reacted in a negative manner to rumours linking him with Italian champions Inter.
Earlier on Wednesday a report from Italy emerged that Inter had reached an agreement with Real Madrid to sign Sneijder on a one-year loan deal for €7 million.
The former Ajax star knows nothing of such an agreement though and has made it clear that he's not interested in leaving Madrid in order to move to the Milanese outfit.
"I'll return to Madrid tomorrow and I'm not aware of any agreements between Inter and Real. I'm not interested in joining Inter as I'm keen to stay in Spain and prove my worth at Real. I'll fight for my place, even though the competition is harsh," said Sneijder to SBS6 after the friendly match between Holland and England.
Spanish newspaper Marca claimed earlier this week that Real were planning to offload four more players before the start of the new league season, with Sneijder being one of those four.
Stefan Coerts, Goal.com
Inter will always be a 2nd banana team in Italia hahaha
No rumors can be 100% trusted, but it is always nice to hear that. :rock3:
Wait a minute, 2nd banana team? who is the 1st banana team? us right? :ilol:
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 22:26
Marco Motta have signed for Roma. Can't be signed by another team this year.
since it was a loan then a purchase then cant we technically buy him? he is worth 10-15 million
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 22:39
since it was a loan then a purchase then cant we technically buy him? he is worth 10-15 million
I did not understand. Motta was bought by Roma this year. Directly, not via loan.
Anywy what I don't get is y we haven't replaced gorcuff yet?? A cm/am seedorf type is needed. Someone to rotate with clarence who will be 34 and pirlo who is 30 and played ALOT of games
Stop talking about Gourcuff please.
Except this part of your post, which has some relations with our transfer market. I just want to ask, why did you use word 'replace' when actually Gourcuff has no role in the previous team?
Reeeeeealy o/t but do you know giancarlo "came out" on goal.com :eekani: ? That guy has serious issues :wth:
What is the meaning of 'came out'? (sorry, English isn't my mother tongue)
Did he reappear again? Wow that's kinda creepy.
Getting players from Palermo will be very difficult, simply because of the wily owner Zamparini. Post-calciopoli, he had said that he finds it difficult to see that Milan didn't get adequate punishment because we had allegedly bribed referees. He kept up with this kind of attitude. In 07-08 when Milan played at Palermo and after the match when Palermo directors came to shake hands with Galliani, he refused and told them that they weren't football people. Relations haven't improved since then.
This strain in relations doesn't discount the fact that Zamparini is the biggest a$$ in Serie A too.
I really hate him and his team, I hope we never give a single euro to him, I hope we never buy players from him for any fee except it's free.
Thanks for all the, er, hard work Kalac ...
Maybe it's more like: Thanks for all the hard times...
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 22:41
probably my last post on Gourcuff, but when you loan a talented player put, you hope that he develops into a stud that can help your team. In many ways, Gourcuff was the perfect loan. He became a star. and then he was bought for below his market value. If we really wanted to sell him, we could have gotten 5-15 mil more for him, and if Borduex didnt want to buy for that price, we could have gotten him back. He wouldnt have been Kaka's replacement like some have said, but he would have been perfect as Seedorf's
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 22:42
I did not understand. Motta was bought by Roma this year. Directly, not via loan.
.
they loaned him last season, then bought him... thats a loan then a buy. shouldnt that make him buy-able?
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 22:43
probably my last post on Gourcuff, but when you loan a talented player put, you hope that he develops into a stud that can help your team. In many ways, Gourcuff was the perfect loan. He became a star. and then he was bought for below his market value. If we really wanted to sell him, we could have gotten 5-15 mil more for him, and if Borduex didnt want to buy for that price, we could have gotten him back. He wouldnt have been Kaka's replacement like some have said, but he would have been perfect as Seedorf's
This is maybe your last post, but there will be someone who will reply you. So everybody from this point please :rr30::rr30::rr30::rr30::rr30::rr30: talking about him. Please.
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 22:44
they loaned him last season, then bought him... thats a loan then a buy. shouldnt that make him buy-able?
Is it true? I don't know. You mean he was loaned to Roma before this summer? And when is it? Seriously I'm not following.
Milano84
12-08-2009, 22:46
Coming out/came out= admit they are gay.
We all knew he was (myspacr was pretty clear) but he never flat out admitted it
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 22:49
Is it true? I don't know. You mean he was loaned to Roma before this summer? And when is it? Seriously I'm not following.
he made 13 apperances for them last term starting in Feb. and i think Roma only bought have off his rights for 3.5mil, so we could at least try to buy the other half. that would give us a good chance of getting him eventually, he is a great player
Milano84
12-08-2009, 22:49
Is it true? I don't know. You mean he was loaned to Roma before this summer? And when is it? Seriously I'm not following.
Roma loaned him in January from udinese. Unsure the terms but he wasn't playing at udinese
ZvonimirBoban
12-08-2009, 22:58
About Giancarlo: $hit, I always knew that guy had problems.
About Motta: 10-15M maybe too expensive for us (T_T), I'd prefer a younger De Silvestri with currently assumed cheaper price.
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 23:06
About Giancarlo: $hit, I always knew that guy had problems.
About Motta: 10-15M maybe too expensive for us (T_T), I'd prefer a younger De Silvestri with currently assumed cheaper price.
Motta is a much more complete player than De Silvestri... i would spend the extra dough to get the better player
Lebanese
12-08-2009, 23:09
About Giancarlo: $hit, I always knew that guy had problems.
About Motta: 10-15M maybe too expensive for us (T_T), I'd prefer a younger De Silvestri with currently assumed cheaper price.
Lol like u were there
Gabriel489
12-08-2009, 23:24
Motta is probably the best IT RB beside Zambro.
He is only two yrs older that DiSlivetri, and it a much better player than him by a mile.
pirlofanusa
12-08-2009, 23:25
Motta is probably the best IT RB beside Zambro.
He is only two yrs older that DiSlivetri, and it a much better player than him by a mile.
yeah, he just seems like the perfect WB for Leo's system. I wish we could sign him
Milano84
12-08-2009, 23:38
Motta is a much more complete player than De Silvestri... i would spend the extra dough to get the better player
today. Motta is also 23 and de silvestri is 21. 2 years ago di silvestri was starting at ss nazio as a teenager. He was regarded as best fb prospect IN THE WORLD. He had a bad relationship w/ dellio rossi otherwise no way he'd be sold. Motta is solid but de silvestri could be special.
The way i liken it... motta looks like he could be next pannucci or favalli... solid defender. De Silvestri is widely regarded as 'next zambrotta'... he knows how to fly up and down the flank, has a rocket left and in todays football, attacking FB's r a must especially since we lack width...like all attacking fb's he overshoots some but that comes w/ exerience
Milano84
12-08-2009, 23:40
yeah, he just seems like the perfect WB for Leo's system. I wish we could sign him
Motta? no no no. De Silvestri is a wingback.... motta is a good fullback but he doesnt get up, cross or shoot like de silvestri. Plus de silvestri just turned 21... the amount of growth from 20 to 23 is huge. motta is 23
edit: Im not saying i wouldnt want motta, but ive had my ye on de silvestri for 2 years now. He is widely regarded as best italan player of his generation and a huge talent.... yeah he may not be as good as motta now, but in 2 or 3 years he'll be miles better
Gabriel489
13-08-2009, 00:17
The thing with IT defenders/WB/FB are that when they are young and showed some sort of promises, they are hail as the the next big thing, b/c they are IT. Kind of like Brazil Strikers, as long as they are Brazilian and showed promises at a young age, they will become the next so and so.
What I am trying to say is that unless De Silvestri really comes out and shows he can play at a consistent level. He is still prospect and not a true star.
As for saying Motta is like Pannucci, thats not a bad comparsion as Pannucci is a pretty solid player even at 36.
pirlofanusa
13-08-2009, 00:21
The thing with IT defenders/WB/FB are that when they are young and showed some sort of promises, they are hail as the the next big thing, b/c they are IT. Kind of like Brazil Strikers, as long as they are Brazilian and showed promises at a young age, they will become the next so and so.
What I am trying to say is that unless De Silvestri really comes out and shows he can play at a consistent level. He is still prospect and not a true star.
As for saying Motta is like Pannucci, thats not a bad comparsion as Pannucci is a pretty solid player even at 36.
i think that is a good point. Some players have been billed as the next big thing, such as Bonera. Motta is a really good player, I'm not saying De Silvestri cant be a really good player, but Motta is already the real deal
Milano84
13-08-2009, 00:26
i think that is a good point. Some players have been billed as the next big thing, such as Bonera. Motta is a really good player, I'm not saying De Silvestri cant be a really good player, but Motta is already the real deal
motta had a great 3 months of form. None of you were interested till february/march
de silvestri had same thing in 07/08... and to be fair wasnt poor in 08/09... he just fell out w/ the coach and didnt play.
Milano84
13-08-2009, 00:35
and fyi, roma's defense conceded 61 goals (only relegation teams were worse).... both pannucci and motta were part of it
ZvonimirBoban
13-08-2009, 00:47
@Lebanese: Yes I WAS there.
I'd take De Silvestri over Motta anytime. They have 2 years margin between them and if you put it in context (21 and 23) that's huge.
I know Roma is better than Kalac, and that GKs are genrally older, but the concept of actually buying a 35 year old (They will try to have him for more than 1 year, bcs they paid his transfer fee as well) in a team which has enough seniors to start with is crazy on MGT's part..... Call me ungrateful, but all our conerted efforts so far with the acquisitions of Beretta, Zigoni, Abate and DiGenarro seem to be blown to dust with this recent buy..... Sure, I wanted Kalac to go, but to replace him someone older?
P.S: DiGenarro is not too bad, and has not been given much playing time so far..... Thing is, his preferred position almost renders him useless to our side......
Motta is not ours anyways...... However, considering our targets, DiSilvestri would be great!
Gabriel489
13-08-2009, 01:46
motta had a great 3 months of form. None of you were interested till february/march
de silvestri had same thing in 07/08... and to be fair wasnt poor in 08/09... he just fell out w/ the coach and didnt play.
Good point but Santon only played 6 months too and last year today, if you say Santon is a better player than Albertazzi, I don;t think anyone would agree with you.
The point is that at least Motta made it as a starting player in Serie A, while De Silvestri still has not make that jump yet.
As for Roma conceding alot of goals, that does not means Pannucci, Mexes, Juan and Motta. IF thats the case, why would you want De Silvestri as Janku, Favalli, even Kala and Senderous played in Milan defense last year and pls remind me how many goals Milan conceded and how many did Lazio?
Gabriel489
13-08-2009, 01:47
@Lebanese: Yes I WAS there.
I'd take De Silvestri over Motta anytime. They have 2 years margin between them and if you put it in context (21 and 23) that's huge.
To me 21 and 23 is not a huge difference, just look at Senderous.
pirlofanusa
13-08-2009, 01:52
I know Roma is better than Kalac, and that GKs are genrally older, but the concept of actually buying a 35 year old (They will try to have him for more than 1 year, bcs they paid his transfer fee as well) in a team which has enough seniors to start with is crazy on MGT's part..... Call me ungrateful, but all our conerted efforts so far with the acquisitions of Beretta, Zigoni, Abate and DiGenarro seem to be blown to dust with this recent buy..... Sure, I wanted Kalac to go, but to replace him someone older?
P.S: DiGenarro is not too bad, and has not been given much playing time so far..... Thing is, his preferred position almost renders him useless to our side......
i agree, this would have been a good chance to grab a keeper for the future. i still wish we could make a deal like Abs+ ~1-3 mil for Marchetti. that would be fair for both sides
Hmmmmmmmmm.....
Milan Target Real Madrid's Royston Drenthe – Report
The Rossoneri are weighing up a loan deal for the former Feyenoord man...
13 Aug 2009 08:48:10
Milan are considering a host of players to solve their left-sided problems, but believe that Real Madrid's Royston Drenthe is one of the best solutions.
Though Gareth Bale remains their first choice target, if a deal cannot be pushed through, Milan will return to los Merengues for another of the Spanish club’s Dutchmen, having signed Klaas-Jan Huntelaar from the Madrid club last week.
Although no official contact has yet been made between the clubs over Drenthe, who can fill in anywhere down the left flank, Il Corriere dello Sport suggests that Milan will sound Real Madrid president Florentino Perez out over a loan move in the coming hours.
Milan vice president Adriano Galliani is thought to be prepared to pay €3-4 million to take the 22-year-old on loan for a season, with an option to make the move permanent for around €7-8m at the end of the season.
The Rossoneri's final major transfer push will begin next week after the Trofeo Tim, and they are expected to move for Gareth Bale and Lorenzo De Silvestri. A move for the latter may be put on hold because the 21-year-old picked up an injury while playing for the Italian Under-21s and Milan will wait to see the extent of the damage.
Anthony Wright, Goal.com
ZvonimirBoban
13-08-2009, 03:07
i agree, this would have been a good chance to grab a keeper for the future. i still wish we could make a deal like Abs+ ~1-3 mil for Marchetti. that would be fair for both sides
Marchetti will come next year if the rumor about that agreement we had with his club is true.
The point is that at least Motta made it as a starting player in Serie A, while De Silvestri still has not make that jump yet.
He did not get the spot, one of the reasons was he wasn't in good terms with the club.
G should try his luck asking for marcelo..
today. Motta is also 23 and de silvestri is 21. 2 years ago di silvestri was starting at ss nazio as a teenager. He was regarded as best fb prospect IN THE WORLD. He had a bad relationship w/ dellio rossi otherwise no way he'd be sold. Motta is solid but de silvestri could be special.
Talks about him being sold has nothing to do with Delio Rossi. Obviously since Delio Rossi already left Lazio. Talks about him leaving is due to his contract going out next summer and him not wanting to sign a new one. That is also the reason he can come cheaper.
Good point but Santon only played 6 months too and last year today, if you say Santon is a better player than Albertazzi, I don;t think anyone would agree with you.
Seriously. Don't tell me you just said that. Anyone that isn't a Milan fan would obviously say Santon is clearly better. There is a reason Santon plays with the senior Italian national team and Albertazzi not even with the U-21.
Corriere dello Sport
Milan on the attack:
Drenthe + Beckham
Dutchman or Bale on the left
i ve been wondering why dont we get lugano????
he is 28
captain of uruguay
he is considered better than caceres in his country(i was talking with an uruguay milan fan and he told me that)
he is FREE!!wants a contract of 2mil..
he is experienced.
i remember we were interested on him,when he used to play for sao paolo
i think he is not non-eu(i think he s got italian passport,not sure although)
and even if he is not wc he would be an upgrade(of our subs at least),and he is far better than onyewu at least..
although lazio and fiorentina want him:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2009/08/13/1437719/free-agent-diego-lugano-to-choose-lazio-or-fiorentina-report
I dont know if this is true, but I just read on wikipedia (I know not the most reliable source) that Drenthe is the nephew of seedorf.
Curiosity about Drenthe
Drenthe is the nephew of Edgar Davids and his girlfriend is the Spanish Playboy model Malena Garcia
Royston has also recorded a Rap song with his friend, Liverpool F.C Winger Ryan Babel. Their Song with U-Niq is called Tak Takie.
Curiosity about Drenthe
Drenthe is the nephew of Edgar Davids and his girlfriend is the Spanish Playboy model Malena Garcia
Royston has also recorded a Rap song with his friend, Liverpool F.C Winger Ryan Babel. Their Song with U-Niq is called Tak Takie.
Be carefull Royston, with Boriello in the team and Berlusconi as the owner, I wouldn't let this girlfriend approach Milanello !! :D
Lebanese
13-08-2009, 06:10
Be carefull Royston, with Boriello in the team and Berlusconi as the owner, I wouldn't let this girlfriend approach Milanello !! :D
A+ GEO
other interesting news it looks like Arrigo Sacci is willing to take over at milan
Jay Crisp
13-08-2009, 06:38
A+ GEO
other interesting news it looks like Arrigo Sacci is willing to take over at milan
Take over what Lebanese ? as coach or a higher up position...OR a buyout.
Jay Crisp
13-08-2009, 06:40
Royston at Milan IDK hes good going forward fast skillfull but defensively he is not WC + for a defender he is tiny 5'5 or 5'6 but R.Carlos was small so maybe it wouldnt matter.
Take over what Lebanese ? as coach or a higher up position...OR a buyout.
I don't think Sacchi has the money to buy AC Milan, so he wants to step in a coach role I reckon.
Personally, I wouldn't mind. His comments regarding our team are 90% of the time spot on.
Thiago Silva Excited About Milan's Prospects For The Season
The former Fluminense defender is upbeat about the Rossoneri's chances in the coming months after a disappointing pre-season...
13 Aug 2009 11:40:28
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Thiago Silva - Milan (Grazia Neri)
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Thiago Silva
Thiago Silva joined Milan from Fluminense last January in a €10 million deal, but was unable to play for the first-team due to the limit on non-EU players. However, he is now ready and raring to go for Leonardo's side after a bright pre-season for him personally in which he scored twice.
"To arrive in a great club like Milan was my dream," Thiago Silva told Il Corriere dello Sport.
"I'm happy because I've found an excellent atmosphere here; I'm training with lots of champions and I have the chance to learn a lot.
"[Scoring goals from defence] happened there too, but I have had more opportunities here than I had in three years at Fluminense. I have the advantage that Leonardo always wants me in the opposition penalty area when we have a set-piece."
The 24-year-old went on to praise Ronaldinho's commitment, as the former World Player of the Year attempts to rediscover his form of 2005/06.
"He is working hard. It has been some time since I saw him concentrate so hard. He is very attentive to what he does on the pitch, but also to what he does off it. Like me, he has a tendency to fatten a bit, so we must always be on a diet."While the Rossoneri consider moves for Gareth Bale and Royston Drenthe, Thiago Silva went on to make his own suggestion for Milan's search for a left-back.
"Junior Cesar. He's a friend of mine, we played together at Fluminense - now he has gone to Sao Paolo. He would do well in Europe," he concluded.
Dutchie-Milan
13-08-2009, 07:06
Drenthe is a great player,many of us are wanting a player who is very dynamic and explosive,he is the perfect player of that,he has the same agressiveness as Edgar Davids,he is fast and very skillfull,also he is maybe small but like R.Carlos,he is very phisiqually strong,he really is a beast.
But its true that he isnt a LB really,because in defense he isnt that strong IMO,wich is a pitty,but in attack oh boy....he really would be what we needed at midfield,his explosiveness is really impressing and he could be the heir of Seedorf.I hope he comes,its not a coincedence that from all Dutch players,only he(and maybe Sneijder)is having lots of playing time in the pre-season of Madrid.
The coach believes in him because he has great attributes and is hard working,i would welcome him,even if he would play as a Fullback wich isnt really his position,at least he would be better then Janku.And he is the player who runs up and down the flank for the full 90 minutes,he would be a great purchase.'
As for the Flavio Roma purchase,it was a great deal,releasing Kalac and signing a goalie who is ten times better then him is great.
Roma is better then Storari,Kalac AND Dida,acctually Dida is better but Roma is way more consistent,if Dida plays you dont know what will happen,he sometimes delivers WC performances,wich is normal because he once was one of the best,but sometimes he gives horror shows....
Roma gives consistent performances and is a very decent goalie as backup,he did a great job at Monaco,really glad we got him,with him against Inter i am not afraid because he can do a great job. Here is something from youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZo2kBfE_pg
Finally we have a good first goalkeeper(Abbiati)and a very decent second goalkeeper(Flavio Roma).
Rossoneri Fuego
13-08-2009, 07:34
hey dutchie! lol need some spark in a attack? bring in a dutch lol,i hope robben,sneijder,VDV,drenthe anyone of those comes the fact is WE REALLY NEED A ATTACKING MIDFIELDER!
Rossoneri Fuego
13-08-2009, 07:44
ITALY/ AC MILAN, Beckham set to return
Source: milannews.it
Sources close to AC Milan and David Beckham's entourage are claiming that the English ace will return to AC Milan. Apparently, AC Milan GM Adriano Galliani already has an agreement with Beckham and he is working on another loan deal. Beckham could join AC Milan before the end of this month on loan instead of waiting for his contract with the LA Galaxy to expire at the end of the year. He would than sign for the Italian club on a permanent basis
hmmm?
Warro Bantan
13-08-2009, 07:59
Some not so good news re Rino and his knee, in the last couple of paragraphs:
http://www.football-italia.net/aug13h.html
@ least we have Flamini....
Glad to have Roma for the derby...crucial that our defense is confident about the shot-stopper.
I would love drenthe. Every time i see him he impressed me. His defence isn't that great but he has a lot of athleticism to recover and he can improve here.
Drenthe would be a great addition. I wonder when Abbiati will be ready. It might end up being quite a long-term injury from the looks of it, otherwise there might not be a need to upgrade from Kalac to Roma, because with Abbiati fit, they will be our 3rd string keepers.
Seems like Storari might start and Roma and DIda may have to fight it out to be number 2---at least until Abbiati comes back.
bLOND !-,-!
13-08-2009, 08:56
what do u think which players will be in our first 11 for the derby game ??
will seedorf play ? flamini ? ambro ? jankulovski ?
im only certain that pato,ronaldinho,pirlo,nesta,thiago
for other 6 players i think that nobody can know except leonardo.... or ?
what do u think which players will be in our first 11 for the derby game ??
will seedorf play ? flamini ? ambro ? jankulovski ?
im only certain that pato,ronaldinho,pirlo,nesta,thiago
for other 6 players i think that nobody can know except leonardo.... or ?
if the game was tomorrow i would play:
-----storari------
zambro-nesta-ts--antonini
--rino-pirlo-flamini
-----------dinho
----pato----
-----hunter---
if dinho keeps behaving unprofessionally i would play seedorf there..
antonini>>>marek,but i still hope we get another full back..
ps of course i am sure nesta wont play 50 games,so we need another cb too..
and because of my lack of trust in dinho i think we may need a medfilder too..
Oh my god bLOND !-,-!. With the exclamation marks in your username and all those question marks in your post, I'm starting to get flashbacks of Jure again. :)
In fact, you are asking about our best possible line-up....hmmm, i think I know where you might be able to find the answer.....:)
bLOND !-,-!
13-08-2009, 09:17
if the game was tomorrow i would play:
-----storari------
zambro-nesta-ts--antonini
--rino-pirlo-flamini
-----------dinho
----pato----
-----hunter---
i dont think that leo will give a starting place to antonini over jankulovski, then there is flamini/ambro/seedorf question, maybe abate too, and roma or storari
Milano84
13-08-2009, 09:37
I would love drenthe. Every time i see him he impressed me. His defence isn't that great but he has a lot of athleticism to recover and he can improve here.
god i knew you would like drenthe....
he doesnt impress me, but he is young and real madrid is a mess. I Think Bale is better. ALso drenthe is only 5-5 (167cm).... thats super tiny for a lb
Dutchie-Milan
13-08-2009, 09:54
god i knew you would like drenthe....
he doesnt impress me, but he is young and real madrid is a mess. I Think Bale is better. ALso drenthe is only 5-5 (167cm).... thats super tiny for a lb
He is small,but so was R.Carlos and Edgar Davids,they were also small but still phisyqually very strong,Gattuso isnt tall either,but also very strong.
Its the same story at Drenthe,he is a little man,but he is filled with agressiveness,explosiveness and dynamic.He is also very strong at the ball.So the height isnt a problem.
when i mention drenthe everyone shut me down, now that we are linked with him everyone seems to have a sudden change of heart.
Gabriel489
13-08-2009, 10:19
Seriously. Don't tell me you just said that. Anyone that isn't a Milan fan would obviously say Santon is clearly better. There is a reason Santon plays with the senior Italian national team and Albertazzi not even with the U-21.
I SAID LAST YEAR TODAY. WHICH MEANS AUG OF 2008. WHERE SANTON WAS STILL PLAYING BEHIND ALBERTAZZI in the U20 team
when i mention drenthe everyone shut me down, now that we are linked with him everyone seems to have a sudden change of heart.
i think drenthe is not the right choice for a lb,he cannot defence at all and he forgets to stand on his place(on the back) when needed,which is really important for full backs..although offensively he has a lot of quality,he needs to mature alot so as to be a starter..
how comes you like so many dutch players???
Question: Since Gourcuff was on our books up until this summer, and was signed by Bordeaux, can he still be signed by another club?
Milano84
13-08-2009, 10:58
let me link you with a scout review of drenthe...
One columnist described Royston Drenthe as being “so disorganised he probably keeps his shoes in the fridge” and while there is plenty of power about his game there is little precision.
Nor, though, have there been many opportunities since he joined Real Madrid from Feyenoord in 2007 off the back of an impressive U21 European Championships for Holland. When he has played, he has been used as a left-winger, left-back and even central midfielder.
There have been glimpses of his athleticism and skill, and his willingness to run at players, as well as a powerful shot, but there have been moments of madness too. Still young, the potential is definitely there. Crashed into a police car during his first weeks as a Real Madrid player: his satellite navigation system told him to turn right, so he did.
http://footballtalentspotter.com/player/roystondrenthe-8289.aspx
I realize we shouldn't put too much credibility in these, but its not first time ive heard this and his play on the field honestly shows it... no idea what he's doing. Has some natural talent/ability but that isnt enough to get you ontop. A quote i heard seedorf say stood with me "the younger players today all have the skill/technique. But many lack the mentality/true tactical understanding which is why they struggle to live up to the potential they show at a young age". Drenthe I think falls into this category.
BTW here is bale: http://footballtalentspotter.com/player/garethbale-807.aspx
Bale has alot to show also, but to me if his tactical awareness is sketchy he can easily pop in at LM in a 4-4-2 (perhaps w/ abate) and that team could take on most of serie A. and he has every tool (i mean he's barely 20, born july 1989) to be absolutely world class LB, just needs some time. Keep in mind since moving to tottenham as a 17 year old he's had 4 different coaches in 2 seasons + a couple foot injuries... hardly the way for a teenager to improve
Milano84
13-08-2009, 11:00
Question: Since Gourcuff was on our books up until this summer, and was signed by Bordeaux, can he still be signed by another club?
i'm almost 100% positive, a clause his his contract says he cannot be re-sold this summer. Next summer yes, but not this summer
Milano84
13-08-2009, 11:01
I SAID LAST YEAR TODAY. WHICH MEANS AUG OF 2008. WHERE SANTON WAS STILL PLAYING BEHIND ALBERTAZZI in the U20 team
i was under the impression albertazzi played CB? atleast for u20s....
Blacktop
13-08-2009, 11:20
Seems like Storari might start and Roma and Dida may have to fight it out to be number 2---at least until Abbiati comes back.
I can't see Storari holding onto #1 for long when Dida and/or Abi come back. He hasn't been entirely convincing so far.
Maltese Charlie
13-08-2009, 11:34
Most of you wish this rumor will be true!!!!
Anche Dida fa la valigia?
Secondo indiscrezioni dopo Kalac, il Milan potrebbe salutare anche Nelson Dida. L'estremo difensore brasiliano č ormai da tempo č relegato in panchina e stando a voci di corridoio, la dirigenza rossonera vaglia seriamente l'ipotesi di anticipare il divorzio, rispetto all'attuale scadenza del contratto. Dida conta molti estimatori in Europa, placati solo dal corposo ingaggio percepito dal giocatore (4 mln). In Grecia parlano di un fortissimo interesse dell’Olympiakos, che potrebbe clamorosamente sfociare in trattativa, qualora il Milan decidesse di "liquidare" Nelson accettando la proposta del brasiliano di ricevere una buonuscita.
Ac Ultima
13-08-2009, 11:47
Translate to English
Ac Ultima
13-08-2009, 11:48
Any new devolopments
Hasan Rossonero
13-08-2009, 12:17
Translate to English
Dida may also be let go. Clubs are interested in him (I severely doubt this...four years ago yeah, but now??), like Olympiakos, but his 4 mill euros salary is an issue.
If he does leave, then I wish him the best. He was great for us up until a few years ago.
EDIT: The source is milannews.it
Blacktop
13-08-2009, 12:19
What's the source? Not a notable one, I'm assuming.
Any new devolopments
Try to avoid double posting (especially asking about new developments merely a minute after your original post). Thanks.
Drenthe falls very often (too often and too easily), a bit like di Gennaro, which I don't like. Other than that, he seems energetic, and is young so I wouldn't mind if he comes.
olympiakos wont go for dida,not 1 in a milion,i dont know where did that come from..
olympiakos bought this year a gk,and right now he has 2 decent ones,the frst will retire at the end of the season,but they would nt give more than 1mil/year for a golie..
here in greece there's nowhere in the news,and nth about a gk in general..and there are over 12 sports newspapers(!!)
I dont know if this is true, but I just read on wikipedia (I know not the most reliable source) that Drenthe is the nephew of seedorf.
Drenthe is the nephew of Edgar Davids and his girlfriend is the Spanish Playboy model Malena Garcia
:stress: :w262: :D
i think drenthe is not the right choice for a lb,he cannot defence at all and he forgets to stand on his place(on the back) when needed,which is really important for full backs..although offensively he has a lot of quality,he needs to mature alot so as to be a starter..
how comes you like so many dutch players???
idk Holland is my favorite national team and, i enjoy watching the dutch play, i think the play very well together. i really cant explain why, but i just love the dutch.
Samaldinho
13-08-2009, 13:20
I'm not sure if anyone posted this, but, apparently we have recently purchased another youth player, from Treviso, like Zigoni.
His name is Matteo Barbini, and he is an attacking midfielder.
Milannews interviewed him, you can find the English translated interview, plus a video, here (http://forum.soccermanager.com/showthread.php?t=46872).
It looks like our youth setup is really being reinforced. I guess Milan is really trying to build for the future. Yes, this could be argued to be "a little late," and it is. But, it is better late than never.
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