View Full Version : Summer mercato 2009
Milan need at least 3 new players for next season CB LB and ST
Mexes/Alex/Agger - Marcelo/ClichyTawio - Benzema/Keirrson/Drogba/Eto'o
My AC Milan for 2009-10 seazon would be:
Coach Leonardo
Out of the team:Kalac, Kalade, Emerson Favalli. Senderos, Sheva, Seedorf, Viudez
Buy players: Mexes, Agger, Clichy, Hernanes, Benzema
Add to team: Gourcuff, Thiago Silva, Albetrazzi, Abate, Paloschi
Would this be a reality...
slifersd
13-04-2009, 15:43
Well if Man Utd are in crisis then we are in deep sh.. :5hoest:
They could lose half of everything they have right now and would still be richer than us.
The only way they would sell players (Vidic) is not because of money they'd need from transfer, but 'cause they wouldn't see that particular player in their future plans anymore.
IMO
..here is the text from that link...
Manchester United will face huge financial problems over the coming years, according to reports.
The Old Trafford club has revealed a pre-tax loss of Ģ44.8million this week, adding further debt to Red Football Joint Venture.
Malcolm Glazer feature size AI
MALCOLM GLAZER
The organisation was set up in 2005 after the Glazer family borrowed heavily to buy the club, and it is now in nearly Ģ700million worth of debt.
With United winning the Premier League and Champions League last season, the club's total turnover was Ģ256million.
However, the overwhelming debt has swallowed that up immediately and it is thought the Glazers are borrowing more money to cover it.
The Daily Mail's Des Kelly writes: "It's a tangle of holding companies, parent companies, 'secured' borrowing, 'debt streams' and 'payment in kind' loans that would require the services of a professional expert to unravel.
"If you like calculus then they may be bedtime reading. But here is the scenario for you in a nutshell.
"The Glazers are basically using their American Express card to pay off the Ģ699million shopping bill they ran up on their Visa card. And next year, they'll shove it all on Mastercard."
Starting in four years, the repayments on the loan will be due, with the club having to pay off between Ģ75million-Ģ150million each year.
A final Ģ600million bill will then have to be settled in eight years time.
It is understood that the club could try to counter the effects of this by increasing season ticket prices or selling highly valued players such as Cristiano Ronaldo.
ManU owners know what they are doing and I can almost guarantee that they are going to sell the club before all the debt comes biting them in the butt. Any idiot would know that sports teams typically don't make money and the only way for an owner to benefit from purchasing a sports team is when they sell it for a higher price. For the Glazers, who aren't exactly the biggest soccer fans in the world to buy ManU, they must have had an exit strategy. As revenue continue to increase, the value of the team will only get higher despite all the debt. Soon enough, the value will be high enough that the Glazers will sell the team for a pretty good gain and pay off their own debt.
Blacktop
13-04-2009, 16:31
My AC Milan for 2009-10 seazon would be:
Coach Leonardo
Out of the team:Kalac, Kalade, Emerson Favalli. Senderos, Sheva, Seedorf, Viudez
Would this be a reality...
No. Why are people so hard up on Leonardo coaching this team? He has no experience and I can't see him coaching a large team like ours.
Christian
13-04-2009, 17:13
Well if Man Utd are in crisis then we are in deep sh.. :5hoest:
They could lose half of everything they have right now and would still be richer than us.
The only way they would sell players (Vidic) is not because of money they'd need from transfer, but 'cause they wouldn't see that particular player in their future plans anymore.
IMO
Nope you got it all wrong. You can say alot about Galliani and co., but they do control finances responsably. We don't have a penny of debt, which is mostly because we don't own our stadium, which is also why the English teams score higher on forbes' list etc. if the debt's from the stadium is subtracted they don't though.
Anyone ever watched Leo Franco (GK) of atletico madrid plays?
I think he's a decent GK. And since he'll be out of contract this season (got the info from goal.com), why don't we sign him as our substitute GK? atleast he's 31 so still have 4+ years ahead of him , he's free, and I think he's better than Kalac and would ask cheaper salary than Dida.
The only problem is that he's an argentinian, Non EU player...
Bosniaco
13-04-2009, 20:57
Anyone ever watched Leo Franco (GK) of atletico madrid plays?
I think he's a decent GK. And since he'll be out of contract this season (got the info from goal.com), why don't we sign him as our substitute GK? atleast he's 31 so still have 4+ years ahead of him , he's free, and I think he's better than Kalac and would ask cheaper salary than Dida.
The only problem is that he's an argentinian, Non EU player...
You said it your self. Non EU, no good. We wasted last year two spots, we dont want to the same. One is occupied by Thiago Silva.
But he is a very decent keeper, a very good back up but I would not take him as first choise.
Bosniaco
13-04-2009, 21:28
Man, I just remembered, what is going on with Nani at Man U. I mean the guy does not play at all. Noone is requesting him, but he is a clear copy of Cristiano Ronaldo.
Actually he's been playing in La Liga since 1998, at Real Mallorca (1998 - 2004) and Atletico Madrid (2004 - ...). So after 10 years, is there any chance that he already has Spanish Passport? How many years is needed for a player to get a passport in Spain?
---
Edited: just browse some more, and found that he has EU passport http://www.footballdatabase.com/index.php?page=player&Id=938
Full name: Leonardo Noeren Franco
Date of birth: May 20, 1977
Birthplace: San Nicolas, Argentina
Nationality: Argentinian
2nd nationality: Italian
EU passport: Yes
Height: 189 cms
Weight: 75 kgs
Italian passport? Now that's interesting.
So get rid of Kalac and Dida, sign Leo Franco for free...
Italian passport? Now that's interesting.
So get rid of Kalac and Dida, sign Leo Franco for free...
I think it would be better to sign a young (between 20 and 25yo) Italian GK to be the substitude of Abbiati.
Leo Franco is good but I don't understand the need to sell/fire Kalac and Dida (except for their wages) if it is to take another 30+ GK (except Buffon) ?
ACMILAN1983
14-04-2009, 08:02
My AC Milan for 2009-10 seazon would be:
Coach Leonardo
Out of the team:Kalac, Kalade, Emerson Favalli. Senderos, Sheva, Seedorf, Viudez
Buy players: Mexes, Agger, Clichy, Hernanes, Benzema
Add to team: Gourcuff, Thiago Silva, Albetrazzi, Abate, Paloschi
Would this be a reality...
I don't see why you would want Leonardo. He's a completely unknown factor as a coach.
I'd keep Viudez and send him on loan (as with Darmian), and I wouldn't add Paloschi, I think he needs to develop by playing frequently.
I also wouldn't want Mexes in all honesty, I think he's very highly overrated and instead I would rather look to try and get Alex or even moreso, my dream CB signing would be Santacroce.
Also, I like the look of Hernanes, but I don't see where we'd use him. As for Benzema, I think he's out of our reach. Right now maybe Dzeko is more realistic.
We're currently linked with Barzagli, apparently we're looking to see how he's doing in Germany.
Geo, please. Zeljko "0:5" Kalac? He is tragic. :) About Nelson - many users praised him after game against Chievo, but have a look. Dida's saves from this match based on reflex, not on his goalkeeping skills. ;) He has got very hesitant hold. Nelson catches easy balls on two - times (oh, you know what I mean; it's hard for me to say it in English). I don't belive in Dida. Maybe my opinion will change after few matches, but now I want to say: he won't be anything more than substitute. Very exclusive substitute.
Btw. we have rights to Felipe - young goalie from Brazil. :) He plays for Santos. Probably, but I'm not sure.
What do you think about Keirrison? IMO he is very gifted, but we don't need Pato's copy. We aren't looking for forward like Brazilian. Ade, Ade, Ade and Adebayor once again! I don't belive in Eto'o, cause we don't have arguments to sign him. Keirrison would cost about 15 milions euro - I suppose - so if, we'll sign not - target man forward it will be Paloschi. :)
That's my point of view.
I have watched yesterday a game in which Thiago Silva played for his former club. And I have to say that this player can play as a fullback wiithout ANY problems. At the right side of course.
In the same way, if Milan decides that Agger will be our target, he is able to play as a LB also.
Next thing is that Roma will most likely sell Doni and Mexes. Milan wants Mexes and they say it clearly. And will go for him only if Roma wants to sell him. But personally I am not convinced with MExes and his "super talent" etc.
Our defence will most likely be great again only is Sandro NEsta can come back and then whoever of these players plays next to him will play 20% better as NEsta is worlds best CB. Pirlo spoke about him few days back and said he is doing better and is working hard.
What do I want to say? IF Nesta is not able to play anymore, and doctors in the club JUST HAVE TO KNOW THAT, Milan needs TWO players: MExes AND Agger. Then with the possibility that one of Agger or Silva play as fullbacks.
And then, the thing noone talks about is Seedorf. He can play serious football anymore. Our midfield, as it is now, is not capable of playing at high tempo for 90 min.
Geo, please. Zeljko "0:5" Kalac? He is tragic. :) About Nelson - many users praised him after game against Chievo, but have a look. Dida's saves from this match based on reflex, not on his goalkeeping skills. ;) He has got very hesitant hold. Nelson catches easy balls on two - times (oh, you know what I mean; it's hard for me to say it in English). I don't belive in Dida. Maybe my opinion will change after few matches, but now I want to say: he won't be anything more than substitute. Very exclusive substitute.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan at all of Dida and Kalac, they aren't good enough (anymore for Dida) for Milan. They are almost useless players. But taking Leo Franco to replace them is another step in the wrong direction.
I have watched yesterday a game in which Thiago Silva played for his former club. And I have to say that this player can play as a fullback wiithout ANY problems. At the right side of course.
In the same way, if Milan decides that Agger will be our target, he is able to play as a LB also.
Next thing is that Roma will most likely sell Doni and Mexes. Milan wants Mexes and they say it clearly. And will go for him only if Roma wants to sell him. But personally I am not convinced with MExes and his "super talent" etc.
Our defence will most likely be great again only is Sandro NEsta can come back and then whoever of these players plays next to him will play 20% better as NEsta is worlds best CB. Pirlo spoke about him few days back and said he is doing better and is working hard.
What do I want to say? IF Nesta is not able to play anymore, and doctors in the club JUST HAVE TO KNOW THAT, Milan needs TWO players: MExes AND Agger. Then with the possibility that one of Agger or Silva play as fullbacks.
And then, the thing noone talks about is Seedorf. He can play serious football anymore. Our midfield, as it is now, is not capable of playing at high tempo for 90 min.
Why do I think to have already read that some weeks ago ?? :D
We all know what we need and who we don't need anymore. Anyway, like I already said, I disagree with the way you want to use these defenders: they play their best football as CB, but still you want to put Silva on the right and Agger on the left, so, who do you want for our CB positions ? We won't buy 50 defenders, I think we're just going to buy a CB, a LB or RB (true LB or RB, not a CB playing well at LB or RB), and promote Albertazzi maybe for some games. Even if Nesta recovers, he won't be able to play all the games anyway, so he will have to be considered like a substitute too.
About Seedorf, we can keep him, he said he would maybe retire next year ... if we use him properly (as a sub), he can be useful. It's as a starter that we can't rely on him anymore. Of course, I already know your reply so you don't have to post it ("if Ancelotti is still there, this coward is going to use his beloved Seedorf as a starter").
Stam was used as a RB and played excellent football. Modern defenders are versatile and are able to play different roles with giving the needed balance in the back line that practically converts to 3 man line in 3-5-2 sistem.
Example today: Chiellini and Santacroce.
About Thiago: He already played as a RB, its not my immagnation that placed him there. If Serginho can play LB then for sure Agger can play LB just like Kaladze played it well after playing CB and even DM in Kyev. Caracteristics of players are important, not their positions like in football manager. Not all CB's can play like fullbacks, but some can are are very usefull in that.
Thiago especially has all the needed attributes to do it. Technique, extreme speed, shoot, cross and can convert to 3 man line when LB goes to transform into midfielder ( Stam-Serginho combination ).
Corluka is actually a CB and plays even better as a CB. Simunic ( now best rated Cb in Bundesliga ) was a great LB for Croatia for years. Thuram played it all...etc. And also, from newer, Micah Richards, the same situation. Plays CB and RB. No problems at all.
Why do I think to have already read that some weeks ago ?? :D
We all know what we need and who we don't need anymore. Anyway, like I already said, I disagree with the way you want to use these defenders: they play their best football as CB, but still you want to put Silva on the right and Agger on the left, so, who do you want for our CB positions ? We won't buy 50 defenders, I think we're just going to buy a CB, a LB or RB (true LB or RB, not a CB playing well at LB or RB), and promote Albertazzi maybe for some games. Even if Nesta recovers, he won't be able to play all the games anyway, so he will have to be considered like a substitute too.
No, only one of them would play fullback, other fullback would be Zambrotta. An attacking fullback with the caracteristics to play very high up field. Do not forget that Zambro started his career as a RM.
Examples:
Zambro-Nesta-Thiago-Agger--
Thiago-Nesta-Agger-Zambro-
No, only one of them would play fullback, other fullback would be Zambrotta. An attacking fullback with the caracteristics to play very high up field. Do not forget that Zambro started his career as a RM.
Examples:
Zambro-Nesta-Thiago-Agger--
Thiago-Nesta-Agger-Zambro-
Yes but what we need is mainly CBs. You write about Nesta like if he would come back and naturally become a starter for the whole season, I write like if Nesta wouldn't come back (of course, I hope he will come back, but I don't hope too much because I have the bad feeling I will be disapointed by the duration of his come-back before the following injury).
So for me, our next defence is:
Zambro (or LB bought) - CB bought - Thiago Silva - Zambro (or RB bought)
Subs: Kaladze, Antonini, Nesta?, Jankulovski, Albertazzi, Bonera
=> And that's not enough actually (in terms of quantity, if we again have a season with injured players, we're going to suffer and really use Ambrosini as a CB :D).
Then we need two players: Agger and Mexes. And we are fine again. With the use I wrote. That is why in modern football its important to have versatile defenders.
MArek is not a fullback and he prooves it every single game.
Then we need two players: Agger and Mexes. And we are fine again. With the use I wrote. That is why in modern football its important to have versatile defenders.
MArek is not a fullback and he prooves it every single game.
Of course he isn't, it's why he is on the bench in my "defence".
And do you really think we're going to spend money for both Agger and Mexes ?! I don't think so ... it will be one of them (or other CB), not both.
No, only one of them would play fullback, other fullback would be Zambrotta. An attacking fullback with the caracteristics to play very high up field. Do not forget that Zambro started his career as a RM.
Examples:
Zambro-Nesta-Thiago-Agger--
Thiago-Nesta-Agger-Zambro-
If Agger is capable to play well as CB and Nesta is fit, I'll choose the second option, which is to play Thiago Silva as fullback since he has better quality to play as fullback compare to Agger (assumption : Agger moves to Milan).
I don't see why you would want Leonardo.
We're currently linked with Barzagli, apparently we're looking to see how he's doing in Germany.
i dont think braida and leonardo are that stupid to scout barzagli in germany when they had enough of him in italy..
the barzagli thing is a smokescreen..
if they were in germany it must have been for dzeko..
Huh, I'm not sure about Thiago Silva as a right back or Agger as a left back. I've never seen them on this positions and - in my opinion - it would be wasting their potential. I prefer moving Ignazio Abate to the right back. Then we have two right backs: Zambrotta and Abate and also two left backs: Jankulovski and Antonini. :)
We also need only one centre back, thanks to having Daniele Bonera, Kakha Kaładze and Thiago Silva in our squad. In reserve we have Albertazzi and Darmian. Let's keep real, nobody won't sell Kaładze or Bonera. Midfield depends on what Ancelotti wants to play. 4321 or 4312. I prefer adapting Chelsea's 433, because we have got perfect players to use this formation.
Post Scriptum.
What about Felipe Mattioni? He has played in Primavera... What's with him? I doubt we would pay 6 milion fee.
Moutinho will be available this summer. Sporting announced he had the right to leave.
I don't think we need him, I think he will be expensive, but anyway, I wanted to say it ... :D
I think it would be better to sign a young (between 20 and 25yo) Italian GK to be the substitude of Abbiati.
Leo Franco is good but I don't understand the need to sell/fire Kalac and Dida (except for their wages) if it is to take another 30+ GK (except Buffon) ?
my reason is because he's out of contract a.k.a. free...
besides, he just 31, still "young" for a goalkeeper. I'm not suggesting him to be our 1st GK, just a back up.
cheaper than dida, younger than kalac, more reliable than both, why not?
---
one more question (maybe I missed a post/topic or so), what happened with hurtado? Is he going to join us next season?
rinogattuso
14-04-2009, 12:00
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calciomercato.it%2Fnews%2F46273%2FESCLUSIVO-AGENTE-DZEKO-EDIN-TIFA-MILAN-MA.html&sl=it&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
This is call for Milan to get Edina Dzeko!!I'm sure 100% now..
Nope you got it all wrong. You can say alot about Galliani and co., but they do control finances responsably. We don't have a penny of debt, which is mostly because we don't own our stadium, which is also why the English teams score higher on forbes' list etc. if the debt's from the stadium is subtracted they don't though.
Did you see the "richest clubs in the world" list?
Christian
14-04-2009, 15:48
Did you see the "richest clubs in the world" list?
You meen Forbes' list?? Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/34/soccer-values-09_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Rank.html)
The added value, aswell as the increased income, is due to them owning their stadiums. Try to subract the debt though, and you get a different picture. Milan could borrow loads of money aswell and build our own stadium, and that would probably put us on top of that list.
We lost Ribery was an excellent solution...
Originally posted by maslok
Huh, I'm not sure about Thiago Silva as a right back or Agger as a left back. I've never seen them on this positions and - in my opinion - it would be wasting their potential. I prefer moving Ignazio Abate to the right back. Then we have two right backs: Zambrotta and Abate and also two left backs: Jankulovski and Antonini. :)
I like the idea, abate has all the potential to be a great one,though he has lot to learn at this position.I prefer a world class genuine fullback;we don't have any,janku never was,and zambro is over his peak.
Also care about things going on felip mattioni,we are fighting for a CL place right now,fielding him at this moment would be a hard choice.so we would't get a close look at him in action and judge what quality in him.
Bosniaco
14-04-2009, 21:20
I think we should definiitly look into shakhtar donetsk squad, players like Jadson, Fernandinho, Ilsinho, Srna, Wiliam all good players
ACMILAN1983
15-04-2009, 04:10
i dont think braida and leonardo are that stupid to scout barzagli in germany when they had enough of him in italy..
the barzagli thing is a smokescreen..
if they were in germany it must have been for dzeko..
Never know, Barzagli's an Italian international and we're in desperate need of quality defenders.
It could also be they were scouting Grafite, after all we're linked to him too. ;)
I think it's most likely we were looking at Dzeko, but if the interview with his agent is to be believed he won't come cheap.
Either way, I have been watching Barca lately, and they play the football I would like to see Milan playing next season. It's a quick, high pressing possession game where movement is key. Eto'o is the leading forward, with Messi closest in support and Iniesta moving up the field to support and create.
Xavi plays centrally as a playmaker with Yaya Toure and Keita supporting in front of defence. A standard back four with Dani Alves and Abidal pushing forward as wing backs.
Now, for Milan, the equivalent would be Pato up front like Eto'o, with Kaka supporting him (a bit like Messi). Gourcuff returning would be there to take the creative role Iniesta has at Barca and Pirlo would play as Xavi does.
Flamini and Rino are two defensive midfielders that cover the defence like Yaya and Keita (both Flamini and Keita possess the qualities to push forward) and for wing backs we would have Zambro and hopefully someone new.
Whilst our differences to Barca would be to make adjustments to the qualities in our side, Barca play in a very similar way to what I hope to see us doing next year.
my reason is because he's out of contract a.k.a. free...
besides, he just 31, still "young" for a goalkeeper. I'm not suggesting him to be our 1st GK, just a back up.
cheaper than dida, younger than kalac, more reliable than both, why not?
---
one more question (maybe I missed a post/topic or so), what happened with hurtado? Is he going to join us next season?
I've seen him play a couple of times and wasn't impressed, Kawiki. Dida and Kalac aren't impressive either but I think keeping them is a better option, especially if Galliani can make Dida receive a pay cut.
Anyway, about Hurtado, after one friendly game (I don't remember against who), it seemed that Carletto cs didn't think Hurtado is of Milan quality and some MM member here said that he ended up being signed by one of the MLS clubs.
I dont think Milan will ever play like Barca and I dont think Milan needs to play like Barca. With all respect to your post which is an excellent idea.
But I consider Milan to be one of the few clubs that has its trademark in Europe. Ours is a defence and a football that kills the tempo and then strikes and win 1:0. I adore Milan coz of that.
First, above ALL, we need to fix the defence and make it class again. So our defence can play high up and our midfielders can play freely.
Years back we had a back 4 that practically didnt need a imdfield to defend the goal. Tomislav Ivic ( Im sure you people dont know who he is so...: He was a coach of Porto, Marseille, Ajax, sporting director of clubs etc. Close friend of many coaches like Wenger, Benitez, a tutor for Mourinho and Mou said Ivic is the best coach he learned from at Porto and so on...led Croatia in ferw games when we won in PAlermo vs Italy 1:2 but couldnt be a constant Nt coach coz of the Croatian president back then and so...) once said in one CL show that the real power of Milan is a defence of back 4 ( back then it was Maldini-Nesta-Stam-Cafu ) that can hold the line high up and can play 1 on 1 with anyone in the world and so our midfielder like Pirlo and Seedorf can move freelin and play higher and also Seedorf can go wider etc.
This team of Milan needs 2 dm's to cover all the space that the invalids in back 4 leave. Plus, we are completely unable to make the playing space smaller ( something L'pool did yesterday in the first 45min. ).
We now have 3 players that are able to play well in the back line: Zambrotta, Nesta ( pleeease be fit!!), Thiago. Lets not kid ourselves with Kaladze and Bonera, Marek etc.
If we want a serious defence that can play vs Chelsea, Barcelona...we need to invest in 2 defenders of highest class.
We play our football with players like Favalli, SENDEROS, Kaladze, Bonera, Marek as fullback, old Seedorf, immobile Pirlo, 19 year old forward... and we expect same results? Come on.
And, Braida was not in Germany to see Brazagli. He knows how Brazagli breaths, he was there to see Dzeko. I dont know what he saw, I havent STILL saw Dzeko in 90 min.
If we were somehow able to invest in Alex ( which I think is absolutly impossible! ) and one player that can also play LB but can defend great, we can do great things. Also we could have used Kaladze as a LB and he'd do 5X better then CB, but our coach is a clown.
We now want Mexes coz the man is pretty or something? He is ok, but he is not top class! NOT TOP CLASS!
ACMILAN1983
15-04-2009, 07:11
I dont think Milan will ever play like Barca and I dont think Milan needs to play like Barca. With all respect to your post which is an excellent idea.
But I consider Milan to be one of the few clubs that has its trademark in Europe. Ours is a defence and a football that kills the tempo and then strikes and win 1:0. I adore Milan coz of that.
First, above ALL, we need to fix the defence and make it class again. So our defence can play high up and our midfielders can play freely.
Years back we had a back 4 that practically didnt need a imdfield to defend the goal. Tomislav Ivic ( Im sure you people dont know who he is so...: He was a coach of Porto, Marseille, Ajax, sporting director of clubs etc. Close friend of many coaches like Wenger, Benitez, a tutor for Mourinho and Mou said Ivic is the best coach he learned from at Porto and so on...led Croatia in ferw games when we won in PAlermo vs Italy 1:2 but couldnt be a constant Nt coach coz of the Croatian president back then and so...) once said in one CL show that the real power of Milan is a defence of back 4 ( back then it was Maldini-Nesta-Stam-Cafu ) that can hold the line high up and can play 1 on 1 with anyone in the world and so our midfielder like Pirlo and Seedorf can move freelin and play higher and also Seedorf can go wider etc.
This team of Milan needs 2 dm's to cover all the space that the invalids in back 4 leave. Plus, we are completely unable to make the playing space smaller ( something L'pool did yesterday in the first 45min. ).
We now have 3 players that are able to play well in the back line: Zambrotta, Nesta ( pleeease be fit!!), Thiago. Lets not kid ourselves with Kaladze and Bonera, Marek etc.
If we want a serious defence that can play vs Chelsea, Barcelona...we need to invest in 2 defenders of highest class.
We play our football with players like Favalli, SENDEROS, Kaladze, Bonera, Marek as fullback, old Seedorf, immobile Pirlo, 19 year old forward... and we expect same results? Come on.
And, Braida was not in Germany to see Brazagli. He knows how Brazagli breaths, he was there to see Dzeko. I dont know what he saw, I havent STILL saw Dzeko in 90 min.
If we were somehow able to invest in Alex ( which I think is absolutly impossible! ) and one player that can also play LB but can defend great, we can do great things. Also we could have used Kaladze as a LB and he'd do 5X better then CB, but our coach is a clown.
We now want Mexes coz the man is pretty or something? He is ok, but he is not top class! NOT TOP CLASS!
mrki, I think you misunderstood when I compared us to Barca. I don't want us to play like Barca as such, this is an idea I've been thinking about since around the middle of this season (and back then I wasn't really watching much of Barca), when we saw Pato up front supported by Kaka and Seedorf behind. Had Seedorf been more consistent and our midfield more capable at running (back then we were sticking mostly to Beckham and Ambro with Pirlo), then we would have seen some great results. The few times Janku (a role which Flamini is making his own now) was put in midfield and we had a stronger runner than Ambro, we saw some great results.
I agree one of the club's trademarks has been a strong defence, which goes further back to our Italian traditions. This is especially an element I don't want us to lose either, because a good defence is key to success.
That's why I would rather we prioritize getting a top class CB and LB, than prioritize CB and CF and stick with Janku at LB, then we can look to press higher (similar to Sacchi's Milan) without fear of getting caught easily at the back. Players like Pirlo will get freedom to play closer to the attackers and imagine Gourcuff playing instead of Seedorf, with freedom to create.
Our inability to close spaces is because we don't stick to playing as a unit. Our players don't work together as a group, but instead as individuals. Sacchi's philosophy was to imagine the team tied by a rope, so as your teammates move, you're forced to keep tight and not leave spaces (some say he actually tied the players together in training).
So essentially I completely agree that we need to invest in our defence, and god forbid we have another season of putting up with Favalli, Senderos, Kaladze, Bonera, Marek as fullback and an old Seedorf in the starting lineup every week. I disagree about Pirlo and Pato though. Pirlo is immobile, but that's our tactical set up, and even Carlo acknowledged after the Italy games (where Pirlo was Italy's best player) that Pirlo gets more freedom with Italy. However, Carlo at the same time said he won't change Pirlo's role in Milan, and Pirlo will play in front of the defence. I argue it's not Pirlo that's the problem, but Carlo's stubborn tactics that compromise Pirlo's game. As for Pato, he may be just 19, but the guy is our best player for 2 years running, so simply cannot be dismissed.
About Barzagli, when I originally posted about him I was just saying the latest rumour. I'm quite aware we're most likely looking at Dzeko. ;)
I agree about Alex (as you probably know my dream signing is Santacroce), though I wouldn't want Kaladze at LB. After this season I simply have no faith left in the guy. I'm not particularly keen on Mexes either, I think he's highly overrated.
Either way, getting back to my original point, whilst I used Barca as an example of how I want us to be set up next season, hopefully this post gives you an idea that I don't want us to lose our identity, and my thought process is very much based on Milan's (and in particularly, Sacchi's) philosophy of football.
Taiwio should be 1st choice lb, not midget clichy.
Brasileiro
15-04-2009, 08:36
I dont think Milan will ever play like Barca and I dont think Milan needs to play like Barca. With all respect to your post which is an excellent idea.
But I consider Milan to be one of the few clubs that has its trademark in Europe. Ours is a defence and a football that kills the tempo and then strikes and win 1:0. I adore Milan coz of that.
First, above ALL, we need to fix the defence and make it class again. So our defence can play high up and our midfielders can play freely.
Years back we had a back 4 that practically didnt need a imdfield to defend the goal. Tomislav Ivic ( Im sure you people dont know who he is so...: He was a coach of Porto, Marseille, Ajax, sporting director of clubs etc. Close friend of many coaches like Wenger, Benitez, a tutor for Mourinho and Mou said Ivic is the best coach he learned from at Porto and so on...led Croatia in ferw games when we won in PAlermo vs Italy 1:2 but couldnt be a constant Nt coach coz of the Croatian president back then and so...) once said in one CL show that the real power of Milan is a defence of back 4 ( back then it was Maldini-Nesta-Stam-Cafu ) that can hold the line high up and can play 1 on 1 with anyone in the world and so our midfielder like Pirlo and Seedorf can move freelin and play higher and also Seedorf can go wider etc.
This team of Milan needs 2 dm's to cover all the space that the invalids in back 4 leave. Plus, we are completely unable to make the playing space smaller ( something L'pool did yesterday in the first 45min. ).
We now have 3 players that are able to play well in the back line: Zambrotta, Nesta ( pleeease be fit!!), Thiago. Lets not kid ourselves with Kaladze and Bonera, Marek etc.
If we want a serious defence that can play vs Chelsea, Barcelona...we need to invest in 2 defenders of highest class.
We play our football with players like Favalli, SENDEROS, Kaladze, Bonera, Marek as fullback, old Seedorf, immobile Pirlo, 19 year old forward... and we expect same results? Come on.
And, Braida was not in Germany to see Brazagli. He knows how Brazagli breaths, he was there to see Dzeko. I dont know what he saw, I havent STILL saw Dzeko in 90 min.
If we were somehow able to invest in Alex ( which I think is absolutly impossible! ) and one player that can also play LB but can defend great, we can do great things. Also we could have used Kaladze as a LB and he'd do 5X better then CB, but our coach is a clown.
We now want Mexes coz the man is pretty or something? He is ok, but he is not top class! NOT TOP CLASS!
I donīt know, my friend...
Bruce Buck(donīt remember the name) a Chelsea director, said that they will need to sell 4 or 5 players at the end of the season.
Imo itīs impossible to Chelsea hold Terry, Alex, Carvalho and Ivanovic for one more season. Three great defenders and one with great upside for only 2 spots?? Also, Chelsea fans(and board) are high on a CB youngster called Mancienne(sp?), and want him to play more...
Ivanovic wants to play more to develop his game...Alex already lost his spot at Brazil NT(Itīs said here in Brazil that Dunga tell him to goes to a team where it start)...and since Carvalho and Terry are legends at Chelsea, and Alex will enter in his final year of contract, I can see a Alex purchase more realistic now...
Btw, Brazilian players do crazy things to be in a World Cup, so even for a great professional like Alex, asking to be sell isnīt out of this world. Indeed, he already asked to a transfer in January concerned about his NT spot, but Felipão changed his mind...
About the second bold part:
As Iīm preaching for years in MM, Mexes is one of the most over hyped defender that I remember. Look, i never said that he was bad, it would be unfair, but thereīs no way this guy can be labeled a world class.
Mexes is a good defender, no doubt about that. But like what Iīm saying about Zapata since last year, I really donīt understand(but respect) the hype about this guys...
Brasileiro
15-04-2009, 08:59
I agree one of the club's trademarks has been a strong defence, which goes further back to our Italian traditions. This is especially an element I don't want us to lose either, because a good defence is key to success.
Either way, getting back to my original point, whilst I used Barca as an example of how I want us to be set up next season, hopefully this post gives you an idea that I don't want us to lose our identity, and my thought process is very much based on Milan's (and in particularly, Sacchi's) philosophy of football.
A strong defence with a great attack and possession of the ball, ACMILAN1983 :)
I got your point about Barca...We(with our particularities) really have some similarities with this Barca. In our best days(not only with Sacchi, but also with Carlo) we used to press the adversary a lot, and also to hold the possession of the ball for long time. This is the Barca secret, and what make their defense so good...
But to do this, a team need to have at least a good defense, and not the one(horrible) we have now. People forget we won a champions playing with three #10(Rui Costa, Pirlo and Seedorf) in our midfield, without to lose the Italian identity...
Imo, if our board give Carlo his wish(Alex) and a promise like Santacrocce...more a new MID and a healthy Nesta and Tiago, we can reedit that great football played some years ago(or against M. United) next season...
What make Milan different, is that we can mix a Italian way to defend, with a Brazilian way to attack. Right now, we can barely do the second:moan:
Christian
15-04-2009, 09:14
I really hope you're right about Alex Brasileiro. Alex/Thiago Silva would make a great CB-pair that would be able to suport the kind of high pressure football we should be playing, perhaps it will even be Brazil's CB-Pair for 2010. The only downside to signing Alex would be that he doesn't have an EU-passport, which would rule out a move for Dzeko, Zuniga, Maxwell, Keirrison, Hernanes, etc, but I still feel the CB position should have priority this summer, unless Nesta is sure to return to 100%, then we should priorities the LB(RB) position.
About Barcelona, I've been watching them all season, and I can only recomend everyone else to watch some of their games. The way they're playing at the moment is amazing, the first half in the first leg against Bayern, is probably the best football i've ever seen someone play, and I do agree that there are some aspects of their game that we could learn something from. Mainly the way their forwards put pressure on the ball, whenever they lose it. Whenever they lose the ball especially Henry, but also Eto'o and Messi put pressure on the ball imediatly, and coupled with a high defensive line, which leaves little space to play the ball out, this pressure usually results in a poor long ball so Barcelona can start up again. The difference between us and them at the moment, is that, first of all, our forwards especially Ronaldinho and Seedorf, don't put out the kind of pressure we need. Second, and more importantly, whenever we lose the ball, our defenders basicly run all the way back to our goal, making it impossible to build any kind of pressure, because there's simply to much space. This is mainly because they're so slow, so they're forced to stay close to our goal, cause they can't catch up with fast strikers.
The first step is to get a faster CB-pair, which we're thankfully working on, then we can start getting Kaka, Ronaldinho, Seedorf, Pato or Inzaghi to put more pressure on the ball.
Taiwio should be 1st choice lb, not midget clichy.
i beleive taiwo doesn't have a EU passport..
I just read that Adriano could cancel his contract with Inter ...
Did anyone think that all this story is just a way for Adriano to leave Inter before this summer or next year to come to Milan ? :D
Hasan Rossonero
15-04-2009, 09:42
Moratti has confessed that Adriano's contract could be torn up. Why do I have a feeling if that happens, we will sign the out-of-sorts, out-of-form, and lumbering forward? It will be a repatriation of sorts, and Adriano may feel at home in the Brazilian disapora. Just like Ronaldinho has. So at home in fact that he, like Dinho, may relinquish any pretense to professionalism or even trying to get back into shape. Well he already has. To have two players with the combined work ethic of a South American three-toed sloth would be suicide.
Adriano did well to come back this season, a lot more than Ronaldinho I think, because Adriano was a joke since 2 years. Anyway, I was just ... joking, I don't think all that story was made up to allow him to come to Milan.
ACMILAN1983
15-04-2009, 09:52
A strong defence with a great attack and possession of the ball, ACMILAN1983 :)
I got your point about Barca...We(with our particularities) really have some similarities with this Barca. In our best days(not only with Sacchi, but also with Carlo) we used to press the adversary a lot, and also to hold the possession of the ball for long time. This is the Barca secret, and what make their defense so good...
But to do this, a team need to have at least a good defense, and not the one(horrible) we have now. People forget we won a champions playing with three #10(Rui Costa, Pirlo and Seedorf) in our midfield, without to lose the Italian identity...
Imo, if our board give Carlo his wish(Alex) and a promise like Santacrocce...more a new MID and a healthy Nesta and Tiago, we can reedit that great football played some years ago(or against M. United) next season...
What make Milan different, is that we can mix a Italian way to defend, with a Brazilian way to attack. Right now, we can barely do the second:moan:
I'm glad you understand what I'm trying to say Brasileiro.
About the part I put in bold, I don't think we defend the Italian way either ;)
I read in the Newspaper today that David Villa said he would not join Milan, although they came forward, but that he would rather play in England...Idiot... :)
hany.Egypt
15-04-2009, 10:40
Originally Posted by Brasileiro
What make Milan different, is that we can mix a Italian way to defend, with a Brazilian way to attack. Right now, we can barely do the second
I'm glad you understand what I'm trying to say Brasileiro.
About the part I put in bold, I don't think we defend the Italian way either ;)
I fI am not mistaken Brasileiro meant that we can barely attack like Brazelians while we can't defend like Italians, so you both say the same thing. ;)
rosoneri_11
15-04-2009, 11:11
I read in the Newspaper today that David Villa said he would not join Milan, although they came forward, but that he would rather play in England...Idiot... :)
Idiot? No! He is smart and logical.
Just come to his place, if you were Villa you would choose to play in Italy instead of England wich is the best leauge of the world with the best teams of the world,playing the best football on the world from all the other leauges? Are you sure?
If i were Villa i would choose Milan just because i love Milan and im a fan o her, but because Villa is Villa and not a fan of Milan he choose nice,smart and logical.
You can't compare campionato with England league and Spanish. Italian league is like German and France league, but even if they looks the same i don't know if the Italian is better from them.
There are plenty of players who even take a pay cut to play at the San Siro, if he is not one of them then so be it. As many do of course I rate him highly, even higher than Torres in my opinion but nothing to be gained from criticizing him.
I still don't understand this argument about which league is better. Playing well in CL doesn't mean that whichever team that wins that league is a 'better' league. The simple reason is that you are equating one person as a representative of the entire nation.
WE already know, very well, that Milan, Juve, Man U, Liverpool, Real M., has a lot more 'prestige' in their names than teams like Chelsea etc. At the end of the day, I really think 'prestige' matters in attracting team players. Unless you screw yourself up completely financially (like Nottingham Tree or Sheffield Wednesday or Wimbledon), these teams are still one with high levels of prestige and honor that attract talents.
Hasan Rossonero
15-04-2009, 12:28
Idiot? No! He is smart and logical.
Just come to his place, if you were Villa you would choose to play in Italy instead of England wich is the best leauge of the world with the best teams of the world,playing the best football on the world from all the other leauges? Are you sure?
If i were Villa i would choose Milan just because i love Milan and im a fan o her, but because Villa is Villa and not a fan of Milan he choose nice,smart and logical.
You can't compare campionato with England league and Spanish. Italian league is like German and France league, but even if they looks the same i don't know if the Italian is better from them.
Actually I would disagree just a bit. Italy and Spain, IMO, are on the same level. The Prem is on a different planet.
Roma and Juve beat Real fairly convincingly over the last two seasons.
Look at the La Liga teams put to the sword this year in Europe. Real Madrid were dismantled. Barca are where they are because they got to play a hapless Bayern side, and, before that, an even more abysmal Sporting side. Villarreal may well go out today--after their first decent opposition. Italian teams had tough draws, and even then Roma stretched Arsenal to the last penalty kick.
In my opinion England is way ahead of Spain and Italy.
Our summer mercato has to revolve around how our coach next season wants to play. If we're going to persist with Ronaldinho, there's no way we can buy a top forward, play 4-3-2-1 and give everyone equal minutes. I hope there's a clear plan forward so that the mercato can be built around this structure.
The way I see it we need a CB and LB regardless. Then the rest depends on formation.
If we want to play 4-3-2-1, then we should bring in a midfielder (Gourcuff ?) who could play as part of the attacking 2 or midfield 3 players and if we're getting a striker it should be someone of decent quality, not a superstar, because Pato will be getting the majority of the minutes.
If we want to play 4-3-1-2 then we'll need a partner for Pato up front and a midfielder isn't as necessary although we could still bring Gourcuff back because he can play CM pretty well.
Moral of the story? I hope there's a clear plan forward or we'll be having more Sheva/Dinho purchases.
Hasan Rossonero
15-04-2009, 12:38
Kaka' has come out and said that "this is the end of the cycle and we need to rejuvenate our team."
Various sources (gazzetta, for example).
Christian
15-04-2009, 12:46
I think you make a good point Mystik. CB and LB definetly should be sorted first. I do hope we could get a low profile striker though, preferably a young one.
Actually I would disagree just a bit. Italy and Spain, IMO, are on the same level. The Prem is on a different planet.
Roma and Juve beat Real fairly convincingly over the last two seasons.
Look at the La Liga teams put to the sword this year in Europe. Real Madrid were dismantled. Barca are where they are because they got to play a hapless Bayern side, and, before that, an even more abysmal Sporting side. Villarreal may well go out today--after their first decent opposition. Italian teams had tough draws, and even then Roma stretched Arsenal to the last penalty kick.
In my opinion England is way ahead of Spain and Italy.
Perhaps the big four in England are collectively the best four, but make no mistake, the best team in Europe is Barcelona, it's as clear as anything. They're way ahead of any other team as far as i'm concerned. People are bashing Bayern and perhaps they're right, but the way Barcelona played (the way they always play when they put on their A squad and give 100%), is on another level than anyone else, and there there was really never any other outcome for Bayern Munich.
They dominated Lyon, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Valencia, Villareal (who by the way both Arsenal and Manchester United haven't been able to beat in 3 games) etc. how much more do they have to prove?
Hasan Rossonero
15-04-2009, 12:49
I think you make a good point Mystik. CB and LB definetly should be sorted first. I do hope we could get a low profile striker though, preferably a young one.
Perhaps the big four in England are collectively the best four, but make no mistake, the best team in Europe is Barcelona, it's as clear as anything. They're way ahead of any other team as far as i'm concerned. People are bashing Bayern and perhaps they're right, but the way Barcelona played (the way they always play when they put on their A squad and give 100%), is on another level than anyone else, and there there was really never any other outcome for Bayern Munich.
They dominated Lyon, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Valencia, Villareal (who by the way both Arsenal and Manchester United haven't been able to beat in 3 games) etc. how much more do they have to prove?
Yes, I was talking more collectively. Just like our win in 2007 did not prove that Serie A was the best league in Europe. The fact that there were three other semi-finalists from the prem was more telling of which league is the best.
Also, I agree. Barca are certainly playing football from another planet, but I would be curious to see how they would fare against Liverpool, Chelsea or Man U.
Warro Bantan
15-04-2009, 13:24
Kaka' has come out and said that "this is the end of the cycle and we need to rejuvenate our team."
Various sources (gazzetta, for example).
Its also on channel4:
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/apr15n.html
This article goes even further by indicating he wants a "Gerrard" type addition...which I find very interesting, as maybe Gourcuff could be molded so to be? :dontkn:
Hope so...which implies directly that I hope Gorky returns, and Seedorf rides the pine, or goes to Samp or better yet Ajax to end his career:guw:
In short, KAka' says our midfielders need to play up and down, he talked about MODERN football! One of these players is Hernanes, Fabregas and even Gourcuff ( depends on how he's played ). Enough of deep super-passer Pirlo and walking Seedorf. That doesnt work anymore.
Hasan Rossonero
15-04-2009, 13:37
In short, KAka' says our midfielders need to play up and down, he talked about MODERN football! One of these players is Hernanes, Fabregas and even Gourcuff ( depends on how he's played ). Enough of deep super-passer Pirlo and walking Seedorf. That doesnt work anymore.
Kaka' : "Si al calcio moderno"
Mrki: "No al calcio moderno"
:D
hany.Egypt
15-04-2009, 14:20
Gus I just read on an Egyptian site that Villa said that playing with Ibrahemovic would be something great.
thinking about Ibr and Villa and Balotelli in one squad...........brrrrrrrrr very scary.
Gus I just read on an Egyptian site that Villa said that playing with Ibrahemovic would be something great.
thinking about Ibr and Villa and Balotelli in one squad...........brrrrrrrrr very scary.
Not very scary my friend IF they play for Inter. :sun:
rosoneri_11
15-04-2009, 16:08
I still don't understand this argument about which league is better. Playing well in CL doesn't mean that whichever team that wins that league is a 'better' league. The simple reason is that you are equating one person as a representative of the entire nation.
WE already know, very well, that Milan, Juve, Man U, Liverpool, Real M., has a lot more 'prestige' in their names than teams like Chelsea etc. At the end of the day, I really think 'prestige' matters in attracting team players. Unless you screw yourself up completely financially (like Nottingham Tree or Sheffield Wednesday or Wimbledon), these teams are still one with high levels of prestige and honor that attract talents.
My meaning was that "You are a world class player, you want to play in a world class club wich is at the best league of the world, and this is at England.Why to choose Italy insteaf of them?"
The most logical is to choose Chelsea,Man Utd,Liverpool over us!
About the prestige, i think we had prestige, now we don't have that, chelsea has more prestige from us, they have a better team and they are playing at the best league. They have more possibilities to attract players from us.We had a great past but now nothing, chelsea had no past but they have a great now. In simple....everyone wants to play with the best teams, and we are not like them.
Just think that we are a circus and a football shame keeping players like favali,Maldini,kalac,Dida,kaladze,emerson and some others and paying them to much.
I agree that at the moment the teams you mention are 'over' us, but I'm not sure if I will agree with you that Chelsea has more prestige than us. Prestige, I think, shouldn't be built just by ONE day, or ONE GOOD year.
And after all, nobody remembers the loser. They remember the winner. It's the winner-take-all game.
And as a matter of truth, in terms of trophy and recent (recent I mean for the past decade), Milan is one of the most, if not the most, successful teams. Liverpool, Man U, Real M. and Barcelona are also close, and Chelsea is nowhere near in terms of prestige.
***
Your last sentence is right, but you have also left out players like Gattuso, Kaka`, R80, Pato, (and btw, I'm surprised you put Maldini's name there; I imagine any defenders would like to play alongside with Maldini, far away from the 'circuit' that you're talking about), Pirlo, and Gattuso (and Flamini, if you will).
Note: 'm not saying Milan shouldn't change: I'm just saying that some of you are in such a negative mindset all the time that you only see the negative side; there is no problem with it, of course, because then you'll take action to solve problems. But you also misses out opportunities for growth internally.
It's laughable how because Milan played terrible for just a few years and we are considered no longer prestigious. What makes you think prestige goes away just so easily, if it takes years to build it? Reputation, yes; prestige? no.
Kaka' : "Si al calcio moderno"
Mrki: "No al calcio moderno"
:D
hahaha! bravo man!
Yes to fast football, no to NBA audience!
It will take Chelsea years to reach the level of prestige that Milan has. I don't think there are many young players coming through around the world right now who have "a life-long dream of playing for Chelsea", they way they might with Milan, Barca, United etc. If Chelsea can keep it up it will change of course, but it takes more than five years.
As for the EPL being the strongest league in Europe, the CL proves very little. It's only the top 4 in England that's stronger than the top 4 of Spain and Italy. And the reason for that (apart from their ridiculous amounts of money) is the "weakness" of the EPL - the lack of strength in depth.
You have the same 4 teams qualifying for the CL year in, year out, obviously they'll improve like that. But the English mid- and lower-table teams are certainly not superior to the Spanish and Italian ones. The UEFA cup serves as prove of that as well as the almost complete lack of upsets in the EPL (I mean small teams beating big ones) which are far more infrequent than in Italy and especially Spain.
Christian
15-04-2009, 17:04
In short, KAka' says our midfielders need to play up and down, he talked about MODERN football! One of these players is Hernanes, Fabregas and even Gourcuff ( depends on how he's played ). Enough of deep super-passer Pirlo and walking Seedorf. That doesnt work anymore.
I just don't get the whole slacking Pirlo all the time... You have to realise that the reason he plays so far back is because he's been instructed to do so. Watch any Italy game and watch him play as a number 10, and watch him do it like one of the best in the world... Ofcourse he's not gonna be creating a million chances playing in front of the defence, but that's Carlo's fault if any.
Really the Pirlo hating is uncalled for, and we would be making a BIG mistake if we stopped playing him, he's 29, and he is definetly still one of the best midfielders in the world.
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 00:39
Is England the better league? Lets break it down.
Marketing and promotion: Prem is light years ahead of Italy and way ahead of Spain.
Competition: Prem has more movement and teams rarely play for the draw even against the big 4. Italy-no need to say how teams play. And Spain is somewhere in the middle.
Atmosphere: Prem and Spain are about the same level due to constantly selling out its stadium, can't really say that about Italy.
Players: Can't really compare as all three leagues have players that can dominte the game. If you pick best 18 players from each league, maybe I am bias toward Italy, I think Series A has the best team.
To be honest, even though I love Milan and all, I must admit that if I am a player at Villa's level, I will choose to play in England more than Italy or Spain.
Mainly b.c of how the game is play and its atmosphere. The game is more open, the atmosphere is always great with the sell out crowd.
TO be honest, I had been saying this for awhile, if Series A or Spain or any league that wants to challenge the Prem, it starts with marketing and promotion of the the league as awhole and not just individual teams.
Esp. Series A as they really have problems of getting fans into the stadium. B/c when I watch matches, I can feel the excitment in the stands when I watch the Prem and Liga, but I really can't feel that with Series A unless it is rival matches, like Inter Vs Milan. But thats not the case with Prem and Liga.
Secondly the game itself. Series A is really boring, I had been watching it for almost 20yrs and it had never been this bad. Just the other days as I was cleaning up my storage, I found VCR tapes(DVD back in the early 90s) of Milan and other Series A games in the early 90s, and they were great matches, even if the score was 0-0, the speed of the game was fast and the atmoshpere was also awesome, in short it was like watching a Prem game now. What happened????
I think Series A has alot of problems and pls stop fooling yourself and say that it is on the same level or just abit behind of the Prem, b/c it isn't. Yes, it might be true that beside the BIG 4, the Prem level is a huge drop off, but the game itself is not and the fans still flock to the stadiums.
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 01:03
I agree that at the moment the teams you mention are 'over' us, but I'm not sure if I will agree with you that Chelsea has more prestige than us. Prestige, I think, shouldn't be built just by ONE day, or ONE GOOD year.
And after all, nobody remembers the loser. They remember the winner. It's the winner-take-all game.
And as a matter of truth, in terms of trophy and recent (recent I mean for the past decade), Milan is one of the most, if not the most, successful teams. Liverpool, Man U, Real M. and Barcelona are also close, and Chelsea is nowhere near in terms of prestige.
***
Your last sentence is right, but you have also left out players like Gattuso, Kaka`, R80, Pato, (and btw, I'm surprised you put Maldini's name there; I imagine any defenders would like to play alongside with Maldini, far away from the 'circuit' that you're talking about), Pirlo, and Gattuso (and Flamini, if you will).
Note: 'm not saying Milan shouldn't change: I'm just saying that some of you are in such a negative mindset all the time that you only see the negative side; there is no problem with it, of course, because then you'll take action to solve problems. But you also misses out opportunities for growth internally.
It's laughable how because Milan played terrible for just a few years and we are considered no longer prestigious. What makes you think prestige goes away just so easily, if it takes years to build it? Reputation, yes; prestige? no.
To me Prestige is a better word than History. And I agree with u completely about Milan is probably one of the most prestigous club around the world, it is on the same level as Real, Barcelona, Juve, Pool, Boca Jr and Sao Paolo.
To be honest, I won't even consider Man U a pretigous b/c to me they are only great for the last 15 yrs or so. Yes, they were great in the 60s too, but thats nothing compare to us, and Real.
The thing is that ManU is a machine in terms of marketing itself and on top of that EPL also markets itself better than Series A.
As for Milan losing its prestige, well, you can't lose it but as I said earlier, prestige is just another word for HISTORY. And if we continue to play the way we had been playing, Carlo continues to use the same players, and Galli continue with his policy of buying has been. We will always be a team with a great history while at the same time-no future.
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 01:14
I just don't get the whole slacking Pirlo all the time... You have to realise that the reason he plays so far back is because he's been instructed to do so. Watch any Italy game and watch him play as a number 10, and watch him do it like one of the best in the world... Ofcourse he's not gonna be creating a million chances playing in front of the defence, but that's Carlo's fault if any.
Really the Pirlo hating is uncalled for, and we would be making a BIG mistake if we stopped playing him, he's 29, and he is definetly still one of the best midfielders in the world.
I think Pirlo is great player but that does not mean Milan should not offload him.
TO me, Pirlo is great as long as he has other players to do all the running for him. For example, if Pirlo is playing for Pool, he will probably win FIFA player of the year award, as he got literally the whole team running up and down the field for him. But when he plays for us, who is running beside Kaka, Pato, Zambro and Janku. Seedorf walks on the pitch and even when he runs, it seems like he is jogging. R80 is Pirlo with better dribbling and footwork skills.
To me, in order for Pirlo to stay and be effective, Seedorf and R80 must not be on the field with him. Flamini, Janku and Beckham must be his midfield partners with Kaka and Pato as strikers with Zambro and Antonini playing FBs.
But you and I both knows that Carlo will never try this.
hitmannq8
16-04-2009, 01:53
I've read a rumour that Meerseman (however you spell it, the guy incharge of MilanLab) has offered his resignation as a result of the troubles that have happened to Nesta, Boriello, Ronaldo and Kaka but Milan has rejected it. Any one hear anything on this matter?
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 02:41
I would not blame Nesta, Ronaldo and Borreillo injury on him. As Nesta is abit of injury prone, esp since the WC06. Ronaldo, his injury was inflicked during a game but his conditioning was horrible due to his lifestyle. As for Borreillo, he was rushed back b/c Carlo lacked strikers.
For the Kaka's injury, no comment on that.
Is England the better league? Lets break it down.
Marketing and promotion: Prem is light years ahead of Italy and way ahead of Spain.
Competition: Prem has more movement and teams rarely play for the draw even against the big 4. Italy-no need to say how teams play. And Spain is somewhere in the middle.
...
Secondly the game itself. Series A is really boring, I had been watching it for almost 20yrs and it had never been this bad. Just the other days as I was cleaning up my storage, I found VCR tapes(DVD back in the early 90s) of Milan and other Series A games in the early 90s, and they were great matches, even if the score was 0-0, the speed of the game was fast and the atmoshpere was also awesome, in short it was like watching a Prem game now. What happened????
The bolded part: It's true the smaller English teams tend to attack the bigger ones a lot more than in Italy, and to a lesser extent Spain. But when you're talking competition in the league it should be about the results that are achieved by the small clubs, not how they are achieved. And I think it's a fact (I haven't thoroughly checked it yet) that the Italian and (in particular) the Spanish leagues are more balanced.
The second part: Yes, Italian football can be very boring, but so too can English football. It all depends on what you like. To me EPL can be very boring because of the sometimes embarrasing technical level. Even in the game between Chelsea and Liverpool (not exactly a boring game per se :hmmm:) the amount of poor passes and basic errors was incredible.
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 05:13
I think it will be an endless argument about the competition of each leagues. It really all depends on how you look at it. To be I think the fact that teams in the Prem are more attack mind is a better competition than having Regginna sitting 8 men defense with two players upfront trying to hit Milan or Inter with counter. Yes, maybe at the end of the day, there won't be the same top 4 teams yr in and out, but these mid table or lower league teams did not play better in general rather they just hold to their 1 pt approach. To be honest thats boring, and what makes it worst is that when I see players on these smaller teams cheers and celebrates their 1pt draw like winning the CL, thats something that need to be change. I would rather see a 2-2 draw or a 0-0 open game than a 0-0 8men defense vs can't score a goal game.
As for the part about boring games, well, to me it has more to do with the lack of movement and the atmosphere of the stadium of Series A more than anything else. As for poor passes and basic errors, well, r u sure u were watching the Pool Vs Blues game and not a training video of Seedorf?
gregapenny
16-04-2009, 05:29
Man what are you talking about? OK, there are problems about attendance in Serie A, but the atmosphere is much much better in Italy. Every club in Italy has its own supporter groups (tifosi) that actually cheer on there team and sing songs act. In England yes, the stadiums are full, but there is no atmosphere (only on Anfield). And I do not count applauding as atmosphere.
You people know Im a great fan of Azzuri and Italy ( as all of you ) and I dont like EPL. But in past few years EPL top teams are simply stronger then Serie a top 4. And that is it. Tactically serie a cannot be matched by all leagues combined...
And about the supporters: Italians INVENTED so called "ultras". So...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevermind it...
Have you noticed that Kaka' basically said that Milan needs new midfielders that are actually capable of running? haha!
My thoughts are: Aquilani still hasnt signed and he is rumored to leave Roma alongside with Mexes and Doni. I'd skip Mexes and Doni and invest in Aquilani as he is a young, modern and versatile midfielder who doesnt play simply coz he is in a fight with Sensi. Dont let him go to Inter or Juve.
Him and Yoan back and we have solved the "duplicates" problem. Also Abate can help.
I just don't get the whole slacking Pirlo all the time... You have to realise that the reason he plays so far back is because he's been instructed to do so. Watch any Italy game and watch him play as a number 10, and watch him do it like one of the best in the world... Ofcourse he's not gonna be creating a million chances playing in front of the defence, but that's Carlo's fault if any.
Really the Pirlo hating is uncalled for, and we would be making a BIG mistake if we stopped playing him, he's 29, and he is definetly still one of the best midfielders in the world.
Untill he showes on the field that he tried his best ( which in Milan I cannot see ) he can sit some time on the bench and actually start working hard on trainings so he can press more then first 15min of each game.
rinogattuso
16-04-2009, 06:07
Fuc* England and their milions..CALCIO PER SEMPRE!!
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 06:19
Atmosphere is not just having fans cheering, it is a lot more than that.
Empty seats is a problem in Italy and not a problem in England, why is that the case?
Another thing I considered better atmosphere is the fact that most stadium in Prem, have their stands very close to the pitch, to me it adds more excitment to the players and fans at home.
Thirdly, the stadium in England seems to be more modern than those in Italy. Now I only get this feeling from watching it on TV, so I could be wrong.
Lastly, maybe is the technology or lighting inside the stadium but when I watch the Prem game on TV, the pictures are a lot better than Series A.
Gabriel489
16-04-2009, 06:20
You people know Im a great fan of Azzuri and Italy ( as all of you ) and I dont like EPL. But in past few years EPL top teams are simply stronger then Serie a top 4. And that is it. Tactically serie a cannot be matched by all leagues combined...
And about the supporters: Italians INVENTED so called "ultras". So...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevermind it...
Have you noticed that Kaka' basically said that Milan needs new midfielders that are actually capable of running? haha!
My thoughts are: Aquilani still hasnt signed and he is rumored to leave Roma alongside with Mexes and Doni. I'd skip Mexes and Doni and invest in Aquilani as he is a young, modern and versatile midfielder who doesnt play simply coz he is in a fight with Sensi. Dont let him go to Inter or Juve.
Him and Yoan back and we have solved the "duplicates" problem. Also Abate can help.
I read about what Kaka said and my first reaction was, he is telling Carlo, Seedorf, Pirlo, along with Emerson and Ambro to leave the team.
rinogattuso
16-04-2009, 06:37
Emerson will leave this summer!!And Seedorf for god sake lol..
We need only Gorky in our midlefield to replace Slowdorf and Pirlo (Flamonster in) sometimes on bench and problem is solved.
Galliani said a few minutes ago that we will not go for Adriano!And he will talk about players which he want to buy at the end of may!
Hahahahaha...Seedorf is a jokermam... He said in SKY CL transmission that he doesnt believe that Carlo will leave to Chelsea and that he has an excellent rapport with Ancelotti ( really???) and if Carlo is to leave he could be on his way to Chelsea to. Yes, the midfleld of Essien, Ballack, Lampard and walking Seedorf.
Seedorf was absolute top class, but he is making a mockery of himself by the way he plays. For him its enough, he cant play for Milan anymore. Gourcuff is too slow for Carletto, but See isnt.
Lets just play Gourcuff, Abate and Flamini and mix it all well and we'll be fine. Another modern player in the middle wouldnt do harm also.
i beleive taiwo doesn't have a EU passport..
And?
We still have one more place to fill, and we can't afford to have a bad defence if we want to win anything. Janku is our weakest def imo.
He needs to be sold this summer too.
rinogattuso
16-04-2009, 07:19
Hahahahaha...Seedorf is a jokermam... He said in SKY CL transmission that he doesnt believe that Carlo will leave to Chelsea and that he has an excellent rapport with Ancelotti ( really???) and if Carlo is to leave he could be on his way to Chelsea to. Yes, the midfleld of Essien, Ballack, Lampard and walking Seedorf.
Seedorf was absolute top class, but he is making a mockery of himself by the way he plays. For him its enough, he cant play for Milan anymore. Gourcuff is too slow for Carletto, but See isnt.
Lets just play Gourcuff, Abate and Flamini and mix it all well and we'll be fine. Another modern player in the middle wouldnt do harm also.
NOO!! Ancelotti said that Gourcuff is to slow to replace KAKA'..When Ricardo is almost became man city player..That is logical for blind man,Carlo is being pised off when our baldie guys wnat to sell KAKA!!
Hasan Rossonero
16-04-2009, 07:43
Atmosphere is not just having fans cheering, it is a lot more than that.
Empty seats is a problem in Italy and not a problem in England, why is that the case?
Another thing I considered better atmosphere is the fact that most stadium in Prem, have their stands very close to the pitch, to me it adds more excitment to the players and fans at home.
Thirdly, the stadium in England seems to be more modern than those in Italy. Now I only get this feeling from watching it on TV, so I could be wrong.
Lastly, maybe is the technology or lighting inside the stadium but when I watch the Prem game on TV, the pictures are a lot better than Series A.
There is indeed a sheen to the Prem matches on television. The bigots and hatemongerers who come to the stadia definitely don't help the image of Serie A either.
But there is some solace. English clubs are heavily in debt, and no matter what anyone says about revenue, that is not a healthy way to run a business. Also, Abramovich has lost a lot of money, so even Chelsea are not the bullies they were on the market.
At the end of the day, the attitude and structure of Italian football needs to change. Maybe we don't need to get rid of choreos etc., but something needs to be done to change the forbidding atmosphere of many desolate stadia across Italy.
There are problems in Spain also--look at the recent fall from grace of Valencia and Deportivo. How can La Liga sustain a competition in which the top 2 keep the rest of the league under their thumb? Also, look at how many top Spanish players play outside their country: Alonso, Fabregas, Torres, Reina etc. These players are stars, and they are plying their trade outside Spain because there is niether an equal distribution of wealth nor, as Fabregas's case shows, a legal restraint to keep youth from fleeing for richer shores.
We have seen this in Italy now too. Giuseppe Rossi, Macheda, etc. find themselves outside Italy because the attitude towards youth in the country is one of immense skepticism and disregard for their growth; just look at our club.
In short, I think football in general has problems, but in particular Italy and Spain need to start thinking of the collective a bit more. I am not talking about a communist revolution or a fraternity per se, but I am talking about a more sensible approach to promoting their football as a product.
Daniel Agger is a very good player. And he could possibly be a good signing for us. The chance of it happening is very slim at the moment. He is happy at Liverpool. We have to remember that he was injured and it's hard to win your place back when Skrtel is doing so well.
Even if he were to leave he would not leave to Milan. He would leave to a club in England or Spain.
its very simple..if italy get euro 2016 then i can see them doing something for the stadiums otherwise i cant see a goverment spending money on stadiums at this moment..
Hasan Rossonero
16-04-2009, 09:26
its very simple..if italy get euro 2016 then i can see them doing something for the stadiums otherwise i cant see a goverment spending money on stadiums at this moment..
True. But even then, the clubs will not reap the financial reward because they do not own their stadia--the city councils do.
I do not watch Roma in Serie A , but in champions league and ESPECIALLY for national team, AQUILANI performs terribly. Is Aquilani a good option for us when we expect running and "modern" football? Aquiliani doesn't have the speed and workrate needed to play as the outside midfielder considering we play Pirlo in the center of the midfield.
hitmannq8
16-04-2009, 13:28
As much as I'd like to see Alex here, I also would like to keep the core of the team Italian still. If our goalkeeper and 2 CB's are going to be Brazilian, where will our Italians fit in? Our 3 strikers are also Brazilian. Yes I hope Alex would come cause he is good enough, but I'd rather Santacroce.
Seems like we missed huge on Ribery. That guy is really really good and would have been the ideal replacement to take the left of midfield. He is more of the Gerrard type of midfielder that Kaka's been talking about.
and to those who think Pirlo should be gone along with Seedorf...I agree, but Pirlo isn't as bad as Seedorf. If we will have a new coach next year, then I say its only fair that Pirlo be tried out in somewhere new, or even at the bench until he finds some consistency. I am upset that Pirlo has been so inconsistent for Milan over the past few years and yes, we all know he's good enough, but comon how much longer could we wait for him to play well (but Pirlo's performance does depend on the rest of our players, so he should get another chance).
Brasiliero, over there in Brazil do you hear of Milan being interested in any Brazilian players? Alex, Hernanes, Kerrison?
Milan's policy for the summer is going to be focused on young players that have not hit the big stage yet, thats what Galliani (or Carlo?) said a few weeks ago. That means they want to go cheap. I think we should keep an eye on Fernando of Porto as he is the excellent all-round midfielder, he is better than Flamini. I do dream of Ribery but it isn't likely. I'd like to see Gourcuff back for the new coach to test out, and would like to see the end of Favalli, Kaladze, Janku, Emerson, Dida, Boriello (too injury prone), Seedorf and Ambrosini.
We really shouldn't have come to this, but because of our management's mistakes and poor decisions over the past years, we have to scratch and start from zero.
It's really difficult for Milan to mantain having WC (great) italian defenders since there are NOW only few great ones : Chiellini and Santacroce (probably future world class defender). The first one is (almost) impossible to get, the second one is surely very hard to take from Napoli. If Santacroce is ALREADY a WC defender, Milan could buy the defender easier even it will cost more money. But right now, Milan will think so many times to buy Santacroce if he is priced so expensively by Napoli.
Brasileiro
16-04-2009, 21:34
As much as I'd like to see Alex here, I also would like to keep the core of the team Italian still. If our goalkeeper and 2 CB's are going to be Brazilian, where will our Italians fit in? Our 3 strikers are also Brazilian. Yes I hope Alex would come cause he is good enough, but I'd rather Santacroce.
Seems like we missed huge on Ribery. That guy is really really good and would have been the ideal replacement to take the left of midfield. He is more of the Gerrard type of midfielder that Kaka's been talking about.
and to those who think Pirlo should be gone along with Seedorf...I agree, but Pirlo isn't as bad as Seedorf. If we will have a new coach next year, then I say its only fair that Pirlo be tried out in somewhere new, or even at the bench until he finds some consistency. I am upset that Pirlo has been so inconsistent for Milan over the past few years and yes, we all know he's good enough, but comon how much longer could we wait for him to play well (but Pirlo's performance does depend on the rest of our players, so he should get another chance).
Brasiliero, over there in Brazil do you hear of Milan being interested in any Brazilian players? Alex, Hernanes, Kerrison?
Milan's policy for the summer is going to be focused on young players that have not hit the big stage yet, thats what Galliani (or Carlo?) said a few weeks ago. That means they want to go cheap. I think we should keep an eye on Fernando of Porto as he is the excellent all-round midfielder, he is better than Flamini. I do dream of Ribery but it isn't likely. I'd like to see Gourcuff back for the new coach to test out, and would like to see the end of Favalli, Kaladze, Janku, Emerson, Dida, Boriello (too injury prone), Seedorf and Ambrosini.
We really shouldn't have come to this, but because of our management's mistakes and poor decisions over the past years, we have to scratch and start from zero.
I heard some buzz here, but nothing to be take serious...
Neymar: There is a talk we are after him, but I really doubt. This boy is worth the hype, but his price will be outrageous. The big spenders will not want to lose another "Pato" type of young talent without fight...and I canīt see we spending this type of money with our actual situation and needs...
Keirrisson: I saw the rumor on the press, but as I wrote in "my thread", this boy is being over hyped. Look, his numbers(goals) are amazing, and he knows how to play, but I still didnīt saw this guy shinning as a Palmeiras player in a big competition. His best games came of Paulistão(São Paulo State championship)...didnīt play good (until now) in Libertadores or Brazil Cup.
You know that I hyped Pato after saw him playing just 3 games, as the boy was amazing against the best competition here. But I canīt say the same of Keirrisson. If I was Milan, Keirrisson would be on radar, but not for this year...
Hernanes: Tixi Begirinstain(sp?) Barca director(or vice-president?) was in Brazil some weeks ago to watch Keirrisson live...after that, goes to a São Paulo game to see Hernanes one more time, since he was here last year to see Hernanes playing. The word in the press(reliable), is that Tixi came to see Keirrisson, and fly to Spain even more in love with Hernanes...From what I know, Hernanes is a wish of Guardiola, and he isnīt a Barca player today, because São Paulo was with money last year, and asked for 25M(Barca gave 15M) to sell him. I know this year Sao Paulo will need to sell one player, so...
We have a pipeline with São Paulo, but Iīm not optimistic with this purchase...
Brasileiro
16-04-2009, 21:45
It's really difficult for Milan to mantain having WC (great) italian defenders since there are NOW only few great ones : Chiellini and Santacroce (probably future world class defender). The first one is (almost) impossible to get, the second one is surely very hard to take from Napoli. If Santacroce is ALREADY a WC defender, Milan could buy the defender easier even it will cost more money. But right now, Milan will think so many times to buy Santacroce if he is priced so expensively by Napoli.
Another amazing post, Siregar...
I know and respect the fact people want a Italian defense, or at least one Italian there. But the only realistic(but hard) option now is Santa...and the guy is clearly one for the future.
Fabiano is playing in a almost 3-man defense, and for the right. Heīs almost a right back, and has much to prove in a 2 man defense that he will have to face at Milan.
I think that a defense of Fabiano and T. Silva would not solve ours problems of now. But I think Santa would be a great purchase...
Just my opinion...
Brasileiro
16-04-2009, 22:02
I fI am not mistaken Brasileiro meant that we can barely attack like Brazelians while we can't defend like Italians, so you both say the same thing. ;)
Yep, hany.Egypt...It was what I meant...sad days:moan:
gregapenny
17-04-2009, 04:37
I read today that Leonardo wants to bring Sao Paulo defender Miranda to Milan. Brasileiro is he any good?
Also, one more for our man from the Brasil :) :
We had a debate - can Thiago play as a RB if needed for Milan? Is he capable of doing so?
I was claming that he can be a RB and that he can interpret it well. We took into consideration that if Milan buys one more Cb and ( ?? ) Nesta gets well... So we create a backline with Thiago-Nesta-CB-Zambrotta-
Do you think its possible?
About Santacroce: We has some long discussions even before about him. There was always the 3-5-2 factor that I was trying to explain. A defender that can play so well in 3 back line is a versatile player. Im also sure that Milan could use him as a RB with Nesta-Thiago pairing etc. Aldough he is not world class NOW, it would be a shame to miss him. Even Pato said he was the best CB in serie a as far as he is concerned.
All in all, there will pass some time untill we can say we have a defence like we used to with players like: Baresi, Billy, Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Stam, Sergio etc.
That is why we need to be carefull to have dinamic and modern midfielders in our construction of a team. If you dont have a back 4 that can hold the line itself you need to use a team as a unit.
rinogattuso
17-04-2009, 06:14
My opinion about our next mercato!! We will bring back Abate he can cover all right side he is freakin fast and that is number one rule for fullback.Whith him on right Antonini and sometimes Zambrotta who will go on left side to replace defensive comedy by Jankulovski and in any case if Ambrosini go away for us we would have left DM Flamini and Marek and right DM Gattuso and Mede di Nolce..
I belive in attack of the future by Kaka,Gorucuff,Pato,Dzeko.. and ofenzive bench Ronaldinho,Boriello,Inzaghi i ?? we need minimal 8 players in ofensive tasks.
Thiago Silva,Agger,Barberian from Tibilsi,Bonera (2 left,s right CB) Darminan..
We can go for Gourcuff and Dzeko for about 15 milion euros(that's funny) these two players in near future will cost min. 60-70 milion E.
Gabriel489
17-04-2009, 08:36
Well, to be honest, even if MIlan does not sign any new players beside GK next year, as long as they let go the Sinister Six; Dida, Kalac, Senderous, Kaladze, Emerson and Sheva; as well as the SlowDuo of Seedorf and Pirlo. Welcome back Gourcuff, Abate, Polashi, DiGennaro, and Oddo, promote Albertezzi and Darmian, and introdue T. Silva and Matteoni. I think thats enough for next year, given that they stay relatively healthy. Maybe we won't be favor to win CL and the league but I think it is a step forward then over the past years.
GK: Abbiati and two new keepers
RB: Oddo, Matteoni
CB: T. Silva, Ambrosini(a position I think he can do well in), Bonera, Albertezzi and Darmian
LB: Zambro, Antonini
RM: Beckham and Abate
Midfield: Gourcuff, Flamini, Cadacio and Gattuso
LM: Janku and Di Gennaro
AM: Kaka and Dinho
STK: Pato, Borreillo, Pippo and Polashi
Coach: Lets see what Carlo can do with this roster
To be honest, I thought this year will be the year where we rebuild due to no CL, but instead the team tried to hang on to past glory by keep using over the hill players.
Give this team to Carlo and we'll be 8th! And Oddo?????
Christian
17-04-2009, 09:44
Come on that team is rediculess. You want to let go of Pirlo and keep Beckham? While counting on Di Gennaro and Abate to suddenly become world class? Not to mention Ambrosini as a CB, really, imagine the amount of penalties our oponents would get ! ;)
I know hating Pirlo is the new 'thing', but come on, let's be a bit reasonable. I'm all for self criticism, but not when it's not based on anything and picking scape goats all the time, without any real explanation is just not very classy.
I think everybody would like a younger Milan, and most of all changes. That doesn't mean that we should play every single player under 21 that we can think off, Di Gennaro and Abate are good, sure, they've done decent at their clubs this year, but come on, are they really good enough to be relied upon?
rinogattuso
17-04-2009, 10:56
Give this team to Carlo and we'll be 8th! And Oddo?????
You had said that right now(whit in row injured 8-9 players all season) Carlo have beter team:S:S:S You must kiding me..roffl
Arildonardo
17-04-2009, 11:06
Great list of good young players. Anyone available for us?
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/topten/foreignkids.html
If we bring in youth then Carlo has to go. He doesn't how to develop.
Abate & Di Gennaro would be a step up from emerson and es boy.
I hope we don't renew beckham for next season. Lazy player. Also janku should be sold. Frankly he's like Georgates from inert a few years ago. can't defend, poor crosser, terrible passer.
I don't think dida will go this summer, but next. Kalac has to go.
I'd sign Marchetti, Agger, Abate, Gourcuff, Di Gennaro, Paloschi, Dzeko, Mariga, Rossi (Parma). That list plus a super player (?) would be suffice. A midfield powerhouse or stellar striker, and leave Paloschi in Parma for one more year.
ACMILAN1983
17-04-2009, 11:51
Well, to be honest, even if MIlan does not sign any new players beside GK next year, as long as they let go the Sinister Six; Dida, Kalac, Senderous, Kaladze, Emerson and Sheva; as well as the SlowDuo of Seedorf and Pirlo. Welcome back Gourcuff, Abate, Polashi, DiGennaro, and Oddo, promote Albertezzi and Darmian, and introdue T. Silva and Matteoni. I think thats enough for next year, given that they stay relatively healthy. Maybe we won't be favor to win CL and the league but I think it is a step forward then over the past years.
GK: Abbiati and two new keepers
RB: Oddo, Matteoni
CB: T. Silva, Ambrosini(a position I think he can do well in), Bonera, Albertezzi and Darmian
LB: Zambro, Antonini
RM: Beckham and Abate
Midfield: Gourcuff, Flamini, Cadacio and Gattuso
LM: Janku and Di Gennaro
AM: Kaka and Dinho
STK: Pato, Borreillo, Pippo and Polashi
Coach: Lets see what Carlo can do with this roster
To be honest, I thought this year will be the year where we rebuild due to no CL, but instead the team tried to hang on to past glory by keep using over the hill players.
Honestly, this is really going overboard. I mean the only real purchases you suggest are two goalkeepers who will most likely sit on the bench. Darmian up till now hasn't shown he's capable of even being on the bench and needs some experience of playing (when he's played for either us or the national youth team he's not really impressed).
Ambro in defence is a major risk, never mind he's been off form this season. As for Oddo, he may be having a reasonable season at Bayern, but he's been atrocious at Milan before leaving and really isn't progressing the side or squad any further. As for Mattioni, we haven't even seen him other than a friendly.
Also why do you want to keep Beckham? Granted he's played beyond what was expected of him but he's hardly a step forward for us and really isn't worth spending on as far as I can see.
Finally, about this argument against Pirlo. I know you feel his transition is slow, but let's do a little test in the Torino match. Keep track of how many seconds he's actually spending on the ball, because I am certain on average it won't be more than 2-3 seconds. I'd also like to keep track of how many of his moves/passes are progressive in nature and how many simply don't go anywhere. Whilst I suspect he will, for example, go back a little more than someone like Pato (given the nature of his position) I doubt it'll be a poor result.
Why, why(???), even mentioning in the same sentence defensive duties of Pirlo and PATO?
That makes no sence in any context...
Also, lets see how many seconds Pirlo will sprint in the game, and how many he will jog on the field pretending to be a no.10. Pirlo has some brilliant games and moves, but he is not working hard for past 2 years in most cases and people got sick of him.
Of course Milan will not sell Pirlo, Im also against it. But everyone needs to deserve to play in first 11. He is not god, he is a player in nad shape. We'll not even mention Seedorf who is below all standards of modern football right now.
You had said that right now(whit in row injured 8-9 players all season) Carlo have beter team:S:S:S You must kiding me..roffl
With those who he has he is still not doing what he needs to do. Just waut for the first 11 on sunday...
Why, why(???), even mentioning in the same sentence defensive duties of Pirlo and PATO?
That makes no sence in any context...
He didn't say anything about def duties. He was talking about how they move the ball offensively.
He did make a mistake in comparing their roles in that respect as Pato, bar Kaka is our main goal threat, and will therefore have more pressure on him when he has the ball, whilst Pirlo will only be pressured if an opponent is directly opposing, otherwise they'll drop off to fill in gaps.
Also, lets see how many seconds Pirlo will sprint in the game, and how many he will jog on the field pretending to be a no.10. Pirlo has some brilliant games and moves, but he is not working hard for past 2 years in most cases and people got sick of him.
This kind of accusation coming out of nowhere is, to be honest, at the point of being scandalous. If I remember correctly, Pirlo & Gattuso are the two most running-distance covered based on Champion League statistics, with more than 10km per game.
Shocked? yes me too; when I first saw it on TV I couldn't believe it either.
That's I think about the same level that you expect from other top-elite teams.
***
I honestly don't even see where you logic comes from: That Pirlo is lazy. TBH, whatever your assumption is, Inzaghi should be the laziest person in AC Milan. Why? Because you didn't see him running in front all the time trying to trick component.
***
This is why I say what you post is being scandulous. Is like telling me President Obama is not doing his job because, oh well, you don't see him doing. FGS, not seeing =/ not doing.
***
Gabriel489
17-04-2009, 13:03
I actually think that team is not as bad as everyone make it to be. Look at Juve, they developed 4 or 5 good players by using youth, I don't see how we cant do that as Abate, Di Gennaro, Albertezzi, Mattioni, and Darmian have all the good potential to be solid players. And I did say with that team we won't be favor to win CL and the league but it is a good way to start truly rebuilding and retooling.
As for keeping players like Oddo, Janku and Beckham, like I said, I think they are good enough to act as cover when needed. As I think they are reliable when call upon as subs.
The Ambro as CB is something I believe in, as he is strong in the air and does read the game pretty well, also I put in the fact that T.Silva will be cleaning up behind him.
As for finishing 8, come on, Juve came in third last year with a team relying on unknown players and I doubt we can't do that too.
As for selling Pirlo, well, I always believe he is a great player but I think it is the best interest for Milan and himself to move on.
This kind of accusation coming out of nowhere is, to be honest, at the point of being scandalous. If I remember correctly, Pirlo & Gattuso are the two most running-distance covered based on Champion League statistics, with more than 10km per game.
Shocked? yes me too; when I first saw it on TV I couldn't believe it either.
That's I think about the same level that you expect from other top-elite teams.
***
I honestly don't even see where you logic comes from: That Pirlo is lazy. TBH, whatever your assumption is, Inzaghi should be the laziest person in AC Milan. Why? Because you didn't see him running in front all the time trying to trick component.
***
This is why I say what you post is being scandulous. Is like telling me President Obama is not doing his job because, oh well, you don't see him doing. FGS, not seeing =/ not doing.
***
I just have to replay to this.
I am well aware Pirlo was one of Milan's players who cover most distance in some of his brilliant CL displays. I have mentioned it in here in our CL games milion times, as we all did. Maybe you can read my post again and notice that I saw that Pirlo has brilliant games, but he plays 4,5 of them in CL and 7,8 in serie a. the fact he run 10km in 3 CL games does not hide the fact that he stood his way through 90min of serie a football in 25 games per season in last 2 years. Also, watch the games not like a matematician ( by numbers ), but by the effect of that runs. When Croatia plays, by some miracle Kranjčar has same distances like Srna, Modric etc., but ist mostly wrong runs. Im not saying Pirlo's brilliant games in CL were wrong by a single step, but just so you know that numbers dont describe football. And I wasnt shocked coz I know and I saw what Pirlo can do as the man showed it long before those stats on tv appeared. Other top-elite teams also run on that level, yes. But 20-25 games per year. Not 10 out of 38.
You dont understand why do I think Pirlo is lazy? And you after that talk about comparism between no.9 PIPPO INZAGHI and Andrea Pirlo and their movement?? And then you use the word "scandalous" about my post about Pirlo beying lazy and me saying it without ground? Come on... Have you EVER seen Inzaghi move without the ball? The man moves brilliantly and every coach and defender in the world will say so. Even Mourinho said Pippo moves like he has 25 years, not 35. Its just that is not seen on tv coz he is a pure forward and noone keeps camera on a forward without the ball. CL game Bayern-Milan (0:2), Pippo gets subbed in around 70th with like 7,8km ( for a pure no.9 player )at the age of 33... The man scored 300 goals with lazy movement...yes of course. And not only that Pippo moves well, he is also a player that has IN ESSENCE different role then one DM/CM. A player that needs to move RIGHTLY, not to run like headless idiot. One of the best movement forwards of ALL TIMES and you say he doesnt move and is lazy...? So much of your knowledge of movement off the ball. I saw a film where Cappello ( or Lippi ?) says he never saw a forward move that way like Inzaghi does. I think its on youtube somewhere, a movie about Inzaghi in like 8/9 parts.
The last example about politics and football? I see the pitch so I can say what is happening. Politics and such examples have nothing to do with my description of movement of Pirlo. Coz in football you sit on stands and you look...
I just have to replay to this.
I am well aware Pirlo was one of Milan's players who cover most distance in some of his brilliant CL displays. I have mentioned it in here in our CL games milion times, as we all did. Maybe you can read my post again and notice that I saw that Pirlo has brilliant games, but he plays 4,5 of them in CL and 7,8 in serie a. the fact he run 10km in 3 CL games does not hide the fact that he stood his way through 90min of serie a football in 25 games per season in last 2 years. Also, watch the games not like a matematician ( by numbers ), but by the effect of that runs. When Croatia plays, by some miracle Kranjčar has same distances like Srna, Modric etc., but ist mostly wrong runs. Im not saying Pirlo's brilliant games in CL were wrong by a single step, but just so you know that numbers dont describe football. And I wasnt shocked coz I know and I saw what Pirlo can do as the man showed it long before those stats on tv appeared. Other top-elite teams also run on that level, yes. But 20-25 games per year. Not 10 out of 38.
You dont understand why do I think Pirlo is lazy? And you after that talk about comparism between no.9 PIPPO INZAGHI and Andrea Pirlo and their movement?? And then you use the word "scandalous" about my post about Pirlo beying lazy and me saying it without ground? Come on... Have you EVER seen Inzaghi move without the ball? The man moves brilliantly and every coach and defender in the world will say so. Even Mourinho said Pippo moves like he has 25 years, not 35. Its just that is not seen on tv coz he is a pure forward and noone keeps camera on a forward without the ball. CL game Bayern-Milan (0:2), Pippo gets subbed in around 70th with like 7,8km ( for a pure no.9 player )at the age of 33... The man scored 300 goals with lazy movement...yes of course. And not only that Pippo moves well, he is also a player that has IN ESSENCE different role then one DM/CM. A player that needs to move RIGHTLY, not to run like headless idiot. One of the best movement forwards of ALL TIMES and you say he doesnt move and is lazy...? So much of your knowledge of movement off the ball. I saw a film where Cappello ( or Lippi ?) says he never saw a forward move that way like Inzaghi does. I think its on youtube somewhere, a movie about Inzaghi in like 8/9 parts.
The last example about politics and football? I see the pitch so I can say what is happening. Politics and such examples have nothing to do with my description of movement of Pirlo. Coz in football you sit on stands and you look...
I gotta say that this is a great post. Couldn't agree more. No offense to you jeff :)
I think it's time to sell pirlo. The man has been with the club for nearly 10 years, its time for change. Not everybody can be like Maldini and play with a club for that many years. Pirlo has plenty of value, Milan must act like normal clubs and make sales when they need to do for the sake of the business end of the club. You cannot let players leave the club at 33 yrs+ old and expect a decent return. Selling Pirlo for 18-25 M would inviggorate the clubs money spending on younger players with big upside. You can't allow yourselves to be attached to players and deem them untouchable...
I gotta say that this is a great post. Couldn't agree more. No offense to you jeff :)
No worry, because he misunderstood completely what I mean about Inzaghi, which is fine.
@mrki: I'm glad you see the point about Inzaghi; that's exactly point I was trying to make.
And if you don't see the same effectiveness in Pirlo, that's a matter of opinion. But here is a dilemma:
On the one hand, you bash Carlo every time when Milan drew / lose, because he ... and... and ... (I will save the space here).
On the other hand, you bash Pirlo for not working hard enough, because he ... and ... and ... (I will save the space here again).
So is it Carlo's fault that he put Pirlo where he is (while Lippi seems to get the better out of Pirlo in Italian team), or is it Pirlo (or in fact, you can fill in the blank by replacing Pirlo with any other team members) himself the issue ?
Or is it the management that brought in the wrong players, and coaches, after all?
Who is at fault? Where is your stand? What's your bottom line?
***
And before anyone wonders where my stand is, I just think that our yet another disastrous season can be attributed to two reasons:
1) Getting the wrong players (e.g., R80, Sheva, even Beckham now; and not any DC that we hope for at the beginning of the season)
2) Injury
If any one wants to say that these two factors didn't play a significant role in our campaign this season at all, peace.
Jxx
p.s.: It's not even meant to be politic for the last example; it was meant to be just an example, and I honestly have no idea what you are saying in your last sentence. My conclusion is that you misunderstand my post, which is my fault since I didn't post it clearly. I apologize.
ON selling Pirlo:
We should sell everyone, because none of them is qualified enough to play for Milan tbh:
1) Dida -bah. Abbiati? maybe.
2) Maldini, Favalli, Janku, ... OUT OUT OUT way too old
3) Flamini - keep, because he is young.
4) Ambro - out. Gattuso, stay, until one day he can't run anymore due to age or stuff then we should offload him immeadiately.
5) Pirlo - defiitely out. Too slow, getting old.
6) Kaka` - on his way out; for $$; injury-prone, didn't perform well for a long time.
7) R80 - cannto catch up old form anymore. OUT.
8) Pato - Definitely keep. He is young, and good. (though a few years later he'll be injury-prone like Kaka` and then we should sell and get 18M or 25M.
9) Borriello - injury prone, out.
10) Inzaghi - keep because he can score a goal at the end.
11) Seedorf - OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT
12) Carlo Ancelotti: OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT
13) Emerson - out.
14) Sheva - out.
15) Thiago - stay.
16) Who else? Out.
17) Oh Beckham: Keep. Money generating machine;
IMHO, Ancelotti is the one that has to be on the way out. Milan is far too long in the comfort zone. the players need new environment and hunger. Player like seedorf and pirlo has won everything. Arsene wenger could be the best solution. there goes my 5 cents
spina_don
17-04-2009, 19:45
ON selling Pirlo:
We should sell everyone, because none of them is qualified enough to play for Milan tbh:
1) Dida -bah. Abbiati? maybe.
2) Maldini, Favalli, Janku, ... OUT OUT OUT way too old
3) Flamini - keep, because he is young.
4) Ambro - out. Gattuso, stay, until one day he can't run anymore due to age or stuff then we should offload him immeadiately.
5) Pirlo - defiitely out. Too slow, getting old.
6) Kaka` - on his way out; for $$; injury-prone, didn't perform well for a long time.
7) R80 - cannto catch up old form anymore. OUT.
8) Pato - Definitely keep. He is young, and good. (though a few years later he'll be injury-prone like Kaka` and then we should sell and get 18M or 25M.
9) Borriello - injury prone, out.
10) Inzaghi - keep because he can score a goal at the end.
11) Seedorf - OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT
12) Carlo Ancelotti: OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT
13) Emerson - out.
14) Sheva - out.
15) Thiago - stay.
16) Who else? Out.
17) Oh Beckham: Keep. Money generating machine;
That part was funny...Who else, in fact everyone should be out cuz we need to regenerate our team...U just broke down Milan's team!!! lol
Christian
17-04-2009, 20:01
Just read an interesting interview with Luciano Moggi. He's being loudmouthed as always, but he did say an interesting thing:
Moggi may well have the opportunity to prove himself again in football, as he claims he is considering a comeback.
“In December I received an offer from a big European club who want to get back to the top of the continent, as their objective is to revamp and win the Champions League.
“I would be given the role of counsel to the President. It really is a huge club. I have to decide whether or not to accept this proposal, but I’ll make that decision in the next few days.”
Now I'd honostly doubt that we'd be going for Moggi because of his tainted reputation, but notice what he really says. He received an offer from a 'huge' club who wanted to get 'back' top the top of Europe. It could be Inter, but honostly have they ever been at the top of Europe. It could also be Juventus, but somehow I doubt that. That leaves us in Italy. If he would move abroad the only club that really strikes me as huge and in a down period has to be Real Madrid.
He may be left with a horrible reputation after Calciopoli, but you can't deny his results. Perhaps he is the kind of guy that could help Galliani buy the right players.
No, this is not the kind of guy we need. Yes, he brings results, but in a backhanded, slimy way. We don't need to taint our club by bringing someone of this character on board.
All I want from Galliani and co is to start taking a few risks in the transfer market. Buy a promising player from the Bundesliga or Ligue 1 and see what happens. After all, players like Hamsik, Zarate, Inler all came from so-called lesser leagues---it's just that we're not willing to take chances and end up settling for the so-called big name avaliable on a free on a huge contract.
Gabriel489
18-04-2009, 00:34
Pls, don't for one second think Galli is saint compare to Moggi as they are the same level, the only diff. is Moggi got caught and Galli did not.
As for having Moggi at Milan, well, thats interesting as on one hand he actually has a plan in how to develop the squad and actually sticking to it, and bringing in new talent players all the time, while on the other hand, he will sell Kaka and Pato if the prices is right.
One thing for sure though, changes are needed in Milan, if this team stay the same for next season, we will end up fighting for CL spot again instead of challenging INter for the League.
hitmannq8
18-04-2009, 01:19
I DO think Moggi is talking about us, as I do still remember that mysterious meeting of Moggi and Berlusconi just before the Calciopoli.
And Mrki posted a wonderful post about Pirlo and Pippo. I really have had enough with Pirlo not putting in effort. I agree with ARIO, we need to kick out Carlo ASAP and let the new coach come in and set his foundations and whatever. Kicking out Carlo will result in other advantages such as kicking out Kaladze, Seedorf, Ambrosini and benching has-beens like Janku (a never been actually) and Pirlo.
It's all about the system we play and how we utilize our players. Pirlo is an awesome player when utilized correctly. I think when we play teams that close down, we need faster players, wingers who can spread the play and create space---in this context, Pirlo is quite useless as his lack of pace doesnt help, and any pinpoint passes he makes only goes to the opposition. BUt, when we play big CL games against attack minded teams, Pirlo is awesome, we need him to dictate the tempo and connect defense to midfield and midfield to attack.
THe problem is that Carlo only seems to know one way to play----and that one way seems to include Pirlo and Seedorf regardless of their form or the opposition.
Now, with Moggi---what good could he do to our club with his tarnished reputation? I don't care if Galliani and co do the same, Moggi has been caught and convicted and anyone associated with him has suffered. I don't want to win some scudettos and then have them revoked due to offhand dealings of the general manager.
ACMILAN1983
18-04-2009, 03:26
Why, why(???), even mentioning in the same sentence defensive duties of Pirlo and PATO?
That makes no sence in any context...
Also, lets see how many seconds Pirlo will sprint in the game, and how many he will jog on the field pretending to be a no.10. Pirlo has some brilliant games and moves, but he is not working hard for past 2 years in most cases and people got sick of him.
Of course Milan will not sell Pirlo, Im also against it. But everyone needs to deserve to play in first 11. He is not god, he is a player in nad shape. We'll not even mention Seedorf who is below all standards of modern football right now.
Firstly, you haven't read my post properly at all as I never mention the defensive duties of Pirlo and Pato, and more importantly, I'm not comparing them, but making the distinction that we shouldn't expect the same number of offensive moves from Pirlo that we do from Pato (who was an example) as they play completely different roles.
As for Pirlo not sprinting, I've said it before that it's due to tactics. I even cited Carlo admitting in an interview Pirlo get's more freedom with Italy...
"With the national team Pirlo plays in a different position than with Milan. In the match against Montenegro he had more freedom compared to his usual position. Seven years ago he proposed to play as a central midfielder and if he now wants to play in a different role I will listen to him, but Andrea is such an intelligent player that he would never ask me that. He has become the best player in his position and I think it's both his desire and mine that he continues to play in front of the defence.
I've bolded the parts where he clearly states how Pirlo plays with more freedom with Italy than at Milan where he's used in front of the defence. Tactically, Pirlo can't run as he doesn't have the freedom to do so. Against Cagliari, where he was given more freedom for once, he ran a lot more and often ran at opponents. In other matches, he will make a pass and if he's not in front of the defence for some reason, he will move back to that position immediately.
And Pirlo is not in bad shape at all. He's been one of our more consistent performers this half of the season.
He didn't say anything about def duties. He was talking about how they move the ball offensively.
He did make a mistake in comparing their roles in that respect as Pato, bar Kaka is our main goal threat, and will therefore have more pressure on him when he has the ball, whilst Pirlo will only be pressured if an opponent is directly opposing, otherwise they'll drop off to fill in gaps.
Again, as I said to Mrki, I wasn't comparing Pato to Pirlo, I was making a distinction between the two. I said it so that people won't come back and argue "I did your test and Pirlo did so many progressive moves, but it's still nothing compared to Pato or Kaka who did this many more".
Agree 100% with 1983
I don't see why you would want Leonardo. He's a completely unknown factor as a coach.
I'd keep Viudez and send him on loan (as with Darmian), and I wouldn't add Paloschi, I think he needs to develop by playing frequently.
I also wouldn't want Mexes in all honesty, I think he's very highly overrated and instead I would rather look to try and get Alex or even moreso, my dream CB signing would be Santacroce.
Also, I like the look of Hernanes, but I don't see where we'd use him. As for Benzema, I think he's out of our reach. Right now maybe Dzeko is more realistic.
We're currently linked with Barzagli, apparently we're looking to see how he's doing in Germany.
hany.Egypt
18-04-2009, 08:27
To Xvr11
Aquilani is one of the best midfilfers in Seria A not only in Roma, probably you did not notice that because you watch Roma only in the champions league (which I don't as I watch them in Seria A only) but keep in mind that those who doesn't follow Seria A used to say the same about Totti who is world class, the problem with Aquilani is that he is very prone to injuries so when ever gets fit and start performing he gets injured again and strugle again to reach his old form and so on.
About this endless discussion about Pirlo, to those who wants to get rid of him, I would like to ask 1 question why do you want to sell Pirlo and want to keep kaka? Both are underperforming at the moment and haven't performed well for roughly 2 years, if you want to be fair then sell both or keep both but selling one and keeping the other means you have double standards.
One last thing, so long as Italian defenders are not capable of playing for Milan then we have to go for forgine one and any talk about the Italian identity and Italian core will be useless as well as racist (at least its my opinion).
I personally feel with Valencia being deeply in the red Milan should offload Sheva and Seedorf and move for Silva and Villa.
Also I've always been one of the few to say that Carlo should stay but I just dont see the club going forward with him in charge.
Our only problem is that Carlo Ancelotti can't play modern football. We can't lead the game and play faster although we have got the best technical 2nd line and forwards in Serie A. We have problems with posession attacking. We need someone who can change our way of playing. Then we can change the weakest points in our squad. That's my point of view.
I hope, Abramovich will enjoy Carletto.
Maevious
18-04-2009, 10:26
Our only problem is that Carlo Ancelotti can't play modern football. We can't lead the game and play faster although we have got the best technical 2nd line and forwards in Serie A. We have problems with posession attacking. We need someone who can change our way of playing. Then we can change the weakest points in our squad. That's my point of view.
I hope, Abramovich will enjoy Carletto.
well said :beer:
hany.Egypt
18-04-2009, 10:40
I hope, Abramovich will enjoy Carletto.
And sheva as well, amen.
Jeff and ACMILAN1983, I will explain all the details and elaborate futher lately coz I dont have time right now at this mment. Just wanted to say sorry if I misunderstood some parts of your posts. That stuff oftenly happens in forums so people in the end talk different things.
Still I just want to say Im NOT for Pirlo's sale! But just for making him work harder and if needed benching him when Pirlo is not at his top. Coz when Pirlo is not on his top he creates problems to his team due to his fragile phisical presence in the middle of the field. When team is underperforminh Pirlo will not raise the team, but will fall down with it. He plays well when players around him play well. Someone compared Pirlo and Kaka's influence - dont do that.Etc...
I'll explain further in some other post.
P.S.
Moggi? Anyday as far as Im concerned. Agnielli bought games, Moggi was his employ. And Moggi is a genial football scout. Probably the best in the world.
No worry; one reason why that post of mine really sucks coz I wrote it in such a short period of time (in a rush)... it's ok even if you can't respond in a while...
Still I just want to say Im NOT for Pirlo's sale! But just for making him work harder and if needed benching him when Pirlo is not at his top. Coz when Pirlo is not on his top he creates problems to his team due to his fragile phisical presence in the middle of the field. When team is underperforminh Pirlo will not raise the team, but will fall down with it. He plays well when players around him play well. Someone compared Pirlo and Kaka's influence - dont do that.Etc...
I'll explain further in some other post.
P.S.
Moggi? Anyday as far as Im concerned. Agnielli bought games, Moggi was his employ. And Moggi is a genial football scout. Probably the best in the world.
Exactly
and he is not the reason why Milan doesnt play well all the time
He doesnt have the same constancy like 2 or 3 seasons ago but hes still an important player for Milan
I cant say i agree on what u said about Moggi
But we dont need him anyway couz we already have someone like him
He just hasnt been caught yet
LOL
If anyone wants to see Keirrison and Neymar, Palmeiras is playing against Santos now.
http://atdhe.net/live-tv-6368.html
http://atdhe.net/live-tv-6371.html
http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=36558&part=sports
This is another interesting question that you raise, marcovb:
Pirlo depends on others to play well, but others also depends on Pirlo to play well (you can have Inzaghi, kaka` all running in front but no one sends the ball up, which happens when Pirlo is out).
It's really a matter of interdependence; again not fair to just speak of an individual.
Dr Milano
18-04-2009, 17:34
2nd Place Doesnt Matter to Galliani Cause hes a lunatic and doesnt want an automatic cl spot :dcool:wish i could bash his bald head
and suprise suprise milan wont be spending big in the summer as usual
the current situation didnt have what it took to win the uefa cup never mind the champions league _
were screwed
I think with the new rules all the first 3 places are automatic spots. The only differences between third and second are the intangibles such as pride, morale etc.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/format/newsid=788373.html
...
• The 2009/10 access list has been changed according to the following principles: 22 teams (21 teams + the titleholder) qualify directly for the group phase instead of 16. The three national associations with the highest UEFA coefficient ranking will each have three teams who gain automatic entry to the group stage, with the countries ranked 4 to 6 in the standings having two automatic qualifiers and the associations ranked 7 to 12 having one.
...
Dr Milano
18-04-2009, 17:41
hmmm when you put it that way _ suppose 3rd isnt as bad as it seems :r14:
Bosniaco
18-04-2009, 20:01
Who I would really get from Palmerias is Lenny, he is the man.
Galliani acts disugustingly as our gm, but if we got moggi i'd seriously stop my support of Milan with Berlu in charge. moggi has robbed Milan of many titles since he's being involved in football sinc Napoli in 1990 onwards.
He's not a good scout as he cheats through gea or whatever their called to fix players destinations.
i would like to see Pirlo in a squad that never stops running... unlike our current walking Milan...
Just imagine a squad that's constantly moving, Pirlo is pretty much the only 'quiet' player, spraying passes left, right n center...
I think we'll see the real Pirlo then...
Gabriel489
19-04-2009, 03:02
THats why I think Pirlo should play in the EPL, b/c almost all the teams there play a running game.
ACMILAN1983
19-04-2009, 03:36
Jeff and ACMILAN1983, I will explain all the details and elaborate futher lately coz I dont have time right now at this mment. Just wanted to say sorry if I misunderstood some parts of your posts. That stuff oftenly happens in forums so people in the end talk different things.
Still I just want to say Im NOT for Pirlo's sale! But just for making him work harder and if needed benching him when Pirlo is not at his top. Coz when Pirlo is not on his top he creates problems to his team due to his fragile phisical presence in the middle of the field. When team is underperforminh Pirlo will not raise the team, but will fall down with it. He plays well when players around him play well. Someone compared Pirlo and Kaka's influence - dont do that.Etc...
I'll explain further in some other post.
I don't mind misunderstanding points, I just hope we're clear. If Pirlo isn't performing, then yes, he should be benched. But right now, he's not the first I'd look to remove from this team.
As for Pirlo not raising the team. Again, it's based on how we use him. In his current role, he has to rely on players around him moving into space as his primary job is to distribute the ball and dictate play. If the players aren't moving, which is pretty much the case in Milan for almost 3 years now, he has no targets to pass to and his game suffers. However, in 2002 he was the main reason we got into the CL for 2003 after some incredible performances behind the forwards. Without a doubt that season he did raise the level of the team.
gregapenny
19-04-2009, 04:30
Paloschi scored again for Parma. He must come back and compete with Borriello for starting eleven. And don't give that bull****, that he is not ready for Serie A. He was ready last year, when he immediately scored against Siena and he is twice as ready now.
Your wrong greg. none of our youth are ready. Even Antonini at 27 isn't ready as conf by seedorf and carlo a few weeks back.
I don't mind misunderstanding points, I just hope we're clear. If Pirlo isn't performing, then yes, he should be benched. But right now, he's not the first I'd look to remove from this team.
Well some things about some half-players are so obvious that I didnt even mention them. Players like Favalli, Seedorf, Senderos, Kaladze, Emerson, $hevchenko etc. are the ones that need to go first.
But Pirlo is being considered one of the best DM's in the world by some of the guys in here, and he plays below every standard. In fact I dont think Pirlo played more then 3 world class games this year, no matter who he plays with. That is NOT a normal behaviour of a player who is considered as good as Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso etc. Im just asking it to be fair: Pirlo sucks this year in 9% of cases, and we played our best football with Rino-Flamini-Seedorf ( See plays well in the beggining of the year before the idiot Carlo decides to play him in 60 games in a row and destroys his fitness condition ... ).
I now clame that Milan would play its best football next year with Rino-Flamini and Yoan in the middle. Pirlo can play IF he raises his movement level on the level he was 3 years ago. If not, I dont see why he would play. This is not a game of friends, its professional squad.
Actually a flat four of Gourcuff, Rino, Flamini, Kaka would be our best option for next season, esp if Kaka wants box to box players. Only Rino of that 4 would hang back a bit more.
Christian
19-04-2009, 06:58
Well some things about some half-players are so obvious that I didnt even mention them. Players like Favalli, Seedorf, Senderos, Kaladze, Emerson, $hevchenko etc. are the ones that need to go first.
But Pirlo is being considered one of the best DM's in the world by some of the guys in here, and he plays below every standard. In fact I dont think Pirlo played more then 3 world class games this year, no matter who he plays with. That is NOT a normal behaviour of a player who is considered as good as Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso etc. Im just asking it to be fair: Pirlo sucks this year in 9% of cases, and we played our best football with Rino-Flamini-Seedorf ( See plays well in the beggining of the year before the idiot Carlo decides to play him in 60 games in a row and destroys his fitness condition ... ).
I now clame that Milan would play its best football next year with Rino-Flamini and Yoan in the middle. Pirlo can play IF he raises his movement level on the level he was 3 years ago. If not, I dont see why he would play. This is not a game of friends, its professional squad.
I don't think we'll ever agree on Pirlo, so I guess we should just agree to disagree. I just don't particularly like the whole name-droping of players calling them poor thing.
Generally I think we need to give some credit where credit is due, and show some respect. Like Favalli as an eksampel. So many times have I seen him getting slamed on these forums, and I just don't think it's justified. I think we all can agree that he's no Daniel Alves as a full back, or a Baressi as a CB, but let's face it, he's performed WAY above what anyone was expecting from him this year. We shouldn't necissarily keep him, but we should show some respect to a player that for once is performing better than what we expect.
I respect Favalli ( Favalli was a grat player when he was young ) but he has nothing to do in Milan. Im sorry but that is truth. Galliani is planning to prolong his contract according to tottomercato...it just has no sence.
He was never a great player. A journeyman at most. Should never had ended up in Milan. Only ended up in inert because of mancini. A sign of the decline in Milan and Italian football when players like favalli are playing for big teams.
gregapenny
19-04-2009, 07:46
Favalli will leave in the end of the season. And don't trust Tuttosport, they are Turin piece of ****... Everything they write is trash...
Actually a flat four of Gourcuff, Rino, Flamini, Kaka would be our best option for next season, esp if Kaka wants box to box players. Only Rino of that 4 would hang back a bit more.
Rino + Flamini would not work
Rino + Flamini would not work
Why ? Did you see them playing together ?
Mystik, I saw you put a link for the game with Neymar and Keirrison, did you watch it ?
Any comment about the players ?
Rino + Flamini would not work
How about this
---------------------2 strikers-------------------
------Gourcoff-----Flamini-----Kaka-----Rino---------
or
---------------------2 strikers-------------------
-----------------------Kaka-------------------------
----------Flamini-----Gourcoff-----Rino----------------
It works for me :)
And is ACM really linked with Arsenal's Aderbayor? And how much ACM is willing to pay? It must be around 25 mil. Why not add 5 mil more and get Torress or Villa if possible, specially since both of them have shown their dsire to play in Serie-A (atleast according to Goal.com)
Aderbayor would be waste of money :5milan:
Your first formation can't work ...
And just something I noticed the last few days (didn't post but I checked what was new): is it possible to write correctly the names of the players ? :D
rinogattuso
19-04-2009, 08:46
LONDON (England) - They have no doubts in England: the forbidden dream Berlusconi called Emmanuel Adebayor. According to today's edition of 'The Daily Mail', the patron rossonero would be willing to invest 35 million to buy the Arsenal striker, courted in the past.
Your first formation can't work ...
I would disagree....
If the players play well and do their thing, it doesn't really matter what kind of formation they're in.
RealM played 4-4-2 or shall we say 4-2-2-2 with Zizou and Figo and they crushed everyone. They weren't just stars who walked around on the field, but rather players who were running, closing down opponents, did their work in the defence too.
The moment they slowed down (seedorf syndrome) RealM collapsed.
Today, Barca uses technical players,to me, they're all attacking midfielders, but they also play their part in defense, put pressure on opponents etc....
I would disagree....
If the players play well and do their thing, it doesn't really matter what kind of formation they're in.
RealM played 4-4-2 or shall we say 4-2-2-2 with Zizou and Figo and they crushed everyone. They weren't just stars who walked around on the field, but rather players who were running, closing down opponents, did their work in the defence too.
The moment they slowed down (seedorf syndrome) RealM collapsed.
Today, Barca uses technical players,to me, they're all attacking midfielders, but they also play their part in defense, put pressure on opponents etc....
All depends on the role and restrictions you give to your players ...
For example: putting Kaka' in the center of our midfield means he has to defend, more than what he usually does, will he be able to be decisive ?
My point of view goes something like this:
If Iniesta can play defense, Kaka can also
But Iniesta doesn't defend well, it's because the whole team, all the players are placed like they have to be placed to take the ball to their opponents, put the pressure, etc.
So it has to change for all our players, if you put Iniesta today in our team, you'll notice he can't defend.
And the problem is that Iniesta isn't the same kind of player than Kaka', nowadays, if you give defensive tasks to Kaka', I don't think he can be decisive as he is hardly decisive without having defensive tasks !! Also, Iniesta is an attacking midfielder, he plays like a "central midfielder", but if you put him in attack, he will be useless, I think it is the contrary for Kaka', he is an attacking midfielder, he can play like a "second striker", but I think he is useless in the centre of our midfield.
I dont think it's too much to ask of Kaka to get into passing lanes, disrupt passes....we wouldnt ask him to run down ball carriers and tackle. Iniesta is as far forward up the field as much as Kaka. Iniesta is brilliant and to be described as around here the term "modern" player.
Why ? Did you see them playing together ?
Mystik, I saw you put a link for the game with Neymar and Keirrison, did you watch it ?
Any comment about the players ?
Palmeiras got completely owned up to the point that I didn't see Keirisson get one chance on goal. I must admit I didn't watch the entire match though...got finals coming up. While I did watch the match though, neither player did anything special. I must have bad luck :(
Gabriel489
19-04-2009, 22:55
JUst want to say, over the past 6 games.
We were
3-0(no Seedorf)
5-1(no Seedorf)
0-0(Seedorf)
2-1(Seedorf, extra mins winnner)
1-0(Seedorf)
5-1(No Seedorf)
Very interesting if you ask me. ON top of that Carlo said we lacks speed and movement and yet he also stated Seedorf is an important player and regardless of his form, he is needed in the first team. Very interesting!!!!
I watched Bourdoux-Lyon for like 15min in each half (just when Milan had a HT and after the end )... did anyone saw more? Yoan did well from what I saw. Classical fantasista with great passing and vision.
I think we can all see its the end of Seedorf...
Gabriel489
20-04-2009, 02:43
I think I will start a poll soon about Seedorf soon.
I watched Bourdoux-Lyon for like 15min in each half (just when Milan had a HT and after the end )... did anyone saw more? Yoan did well from what I saw. Classical fantasista with great passing and vision.
I think we can all see its the end of Seedorf...
I watched the 2nd half and while Gourcuff's skills and perception were clear to see, I didn't really see him "putting on a show". Still, I have no doubts we should do all that is in our power to bring him back.
I said Gourcuff was back in form few weeks ago, I was wrong, it looks more like he will end this season with some great performances and some bad/decent performances.
He had continuity in his performances for the first 6 months, then followed a very bad period for him, and now I think he will be inconsistent for the last few games. He hasn't been really rested yet (one game here and there since his form dropped) ...
PS: I watched the end of the game, after the end of Milan-Torino, so 30 minutes I think ?
PS1: I tried Veetle for the Bordeaux game, OMG, that's pretty good !!
I don't mind misunderstanding points, I just hope we're clear. If Pirlo isn't performing, then yes, he should be benched. But right now, he's not the first I'd look to remove from this team.
As for Pirlo not raising the team. Again, it's based on how we use him. In his current role, he has to rely on players around him moving into space as his primary job is to distribute the ball and dictate play. If the players aren't moving, which is pretty much the case in Milan for almost 3 years now, he has no targets to pass to and his game suffers. However, in 2002 he was the main reason we got into the CL for 2003 after some incredible performances behind the forwards. Without a doubt that season he did raise the level of the team.
You are saying a convincing CL champion of 2007 including beating Manchester United 3 - 0 at home is a team without movement? :)
First of all it would be impossible to even win a tournament like that without movement from the players. I'd say it's hard even to qualify to the knockout part of the tournament.
We saw plenty of movement from the entire team in that tournament. We were all left with wonderful and beautiful football in that CL adventure.
I deeply disagree.
Gabriel489
20-04-2009, 06:04
As someone already stated here, a few great games means nothing in a long season.
There is no doubt that Pirlo, Seedorf, Dida, Janku and even Sheva still have quality that win a game or dominate a game, but at what price. 5-6 horrible games in a row for 1 great game? Thats something we cannot afford.
ACMILAN1983
20-04-2009, 06:44
You are saying a convincing CL champion of 2007 including beating Manchester United 3 - 0 at home is a team without movement? :)
First of all it would be impossible to even win a tournament like that without movement from the players. I'd say it's hard even to qualify to the knockout part of the tournament.
We saw plenty of movement from the entire team in that tournament. We were all left with wonderful and beautiful football in that CL adventure.
I deeply disagree.
I have never denied that towards the end of the 2006/07 we played some good football, and that is the main reason why I chose my words carefully and said "for almost 3 years". Still, that brief period (at most half a season) doesn't excuse the rest of the time where we play at walking pace.
Ancelotti has ruled out bringing back Abate:
"Abate has improved plenty, but a winger like him would not fit into our tactical system," Ancelotti told Tuttomercatoweb.com.
(from goal.com)
--------------------
Yes, God forbid we should be able to make some tactical variations...
rinogattuso
20-04-2009, 07:32
Zambrotta yesterday kill Abate on that side..he destroy him!! Great choice by Ancelotti to put on left Brotta and not Favalli or unexpirience Flamini,when Flamster play for Arsenal I watched a many games but this performance from last night is unbelivable.
HO-YOUNG
20-04-2009, 10:48
Ancelotti has ruled out bringing back Abate:
"Abate has improved plenty, but a winger like him would not fit into our tactical system," Ancelotti told Tuttomercatoweb.com.
(from goal.com)
--------------------
Yes, God forbid we should be able to make some tactical variations...
True... we can modify him into a fullback...
Ancelotti has ruled out bringing back Abate:
"Abate has improved plenty, but a winger like him would not fit into our tactical system," Ancelotti told Tuttomercatoweb.com.
(from goal.com)
--------------------
Yes, God forbid we should be able to make some tactical variations...
I doubt that's an accurate quote but any way someone explain to me our current tactics, used to be fullbacks moving up and Pirlo creating the possession game but what is it exactly now?
Filipéz 182
20-04-2009, 13:11
I doubt that's an accurate quote but any way someone explain to me our current tactics, used to be fullbacks moving up and Pirlo creating the possession game but what is it exactly now?
I read the interview in italian and I translated it with an internet translator, he did said something like that.
And its true we dont use wingers, but why the hell cant he be usefull for us, a winger could break a hard game against a small side open. like serginho did for us in the past. or like people said, use him as a fullback, look at serginho, his runs on the left side were a big problem for many teams.
It an exact quote, I can read italian to that level. Carlo said Abate has improved and matured but Milan does not have a habbit of playing with wingers.
But Carlo will be in London next year so it doesnt matter. :)
Abate had noone to play with, Torino was simply awfull. Im sure we can use Abate in some parts of the season in rotation sistem as he can play as a fullback and as a RM in "romb"(1-2-1) formation in the middle.
I'd take him back and used him in planned doses.
Like some said already hereabout Abate.....just because we don't normally use wings in our formation it doesn't mean that we can't have some different options and use them when we need them. We NEED variation in this squad which will give us the option of fielding a different formation every now and then and further allow us to use an element of surprise.
I understand that it would be ridiculous to ask for a world class winger because we don't normally us them....but there is nothing wrong in taking back own of our one for close to nothing in value and make use of him whenever we need to widen out our formation.
Some of the comments that are made by Carlo and the management are just plain stupid.
By the way....Gaetano D'Agostino may be on his way out of Udinese (Channel4). I think he is a great player....one that fits the description of 'players that haven't made the big jump yet' made by Galliani. He can spray some great passes in the middle and although not great defensively he is still better and tougher then Pirlo in that department. He's had a great season this year and finally made the breakthrough and is fulfilling the expectations that people had in him some years ago when everyone thought he was going to be great. Particularly the first part of this season was great for him and he was perhaps Udinese's best player....but the team's form went down after that and the second part of the season has been tougher for D'Agostino although he still is one of the team's best performers.
We need new blood in the team and definately someone to give Pirlo a run for his money. Gourcuff is great but if Carlo stays with us I really don't have much hope for that, so D'Agostino might just be a great option. I actually mentioned his name a few weeks ago but there was nothing on him in the media.....and now there are reports that he might be out the door in July. He won't be expensive either.
It an exact quote, I can read italian to that level. Carlo said Abate has improved and matured but Milan does not have a habbit of playing with wingers.
But Carlo will be in London next year so it doesnt matter. :)
So maybe he is going to take Abate with him in London as Chelsea usually plays with wingers ... :D
Why put a square peg into a round hole? We don't user wingers period. Abate's game is speed and wide play in space. He can't do that playing RB because that is just up and down and tight space when he's attacking.
Abate is an asset of Milan and can be used as an asset in acquiring other players in Serie A that can prove useful to use with their strengths.
Imagine offering Napoli Abate + another player + cash for Santacroce. Think outside of the box people and stop being so cynical n critical.
It's a good point, and I knew someone was going to say something like that.....even though he is not totally our asset but he is co-owned. So if we want him back we'll have to settle on a price with Torino and then use him as a tool to knock down the price of a player. But even going through all that....it is still all besides the main point.
And the main point is that we are not being cynical and critical but that this squad is one dimensional. Meaning we have no players in this squad that can offer something different.
-Imagine we are 0-0 vs Lecce at the 75th minute and we desperately need a goal. We can't crack their defense as our tools aren't working and we are too clogged in the middle. We can make a change...but all our damn subs are just duplicates of the players we already have on the field anyway. So what do you do???
This is the exact scenario that I was talking about when I said we can use him. It's good to have players in your squad that will offer you the luxury to change the formation during a game or even from game to game depending on the opponent we play. We don't have that. We can't change our formation simply because we don't have options. Carlo being a stubborn mule is another reason why we don't see any changes but we'll leave that one for another day. :grinser:
It's a good point, and I knew someone was going to say something like that.....even though he is not totally our asset but he is co-owned. So if we want him back we'll have to settle on a price with Torino and then use him as a tool to knock down the price of a player. But even going through all that....it is still all besides the main point.
And the main point is that we are not being cynical and critical but that this squad is one dimensional. Meaning we have no players in this squad that can offer something different.
-Imagine we are 0-0 vs Lecce at the 75th minute and we desperately need a goal. We can't crack their defense as our tools aren't working and we are too clogged in the middle. We can make a change...but all our damn subs are just duplicates of the players we already have on the field anyway. So what do you do???
This is the exact scenario that I was talking about when I said we can use him. It's good to have players in your squad that will offer you the luxury to change the formation during a game or even from game to game depending on the opponent we play. We don't have that. We can't change our formation simply because we don't have options. Carlo being a stubborn mule is another reason why we don't see any changes but we'll leave that one for another day. :grinser:
I'm sorry but if you take Abate just to give him 15 minutes here and there ... what do you think will happen ? If Abate is mentally strong, no problem, but if he is like Gourcuff when he was in Milan, he's going to be useless as he will want to do too many things in few time. Ancelotti probably knows that (and he also probably knows that he won't change the starting formation just for Abate), and it's surely why he said so.
The point of my post is: what makes you think that Abate will perform constantly well when he'll play 15 minutes here and there and so what makes you think he will help us to crack the opponent's defence like in that "Milan 0-0 Lecce 75th minute" example ?
slifersd
20-04-2009, 22:54
About Abate, if we are only willing to give him a part time role like we gave Serginho, we might as well sell him permanently. Serginho only accepted a small role because he was aging and had low ambitions because of that. Abate, on the other hand, is young and want to at least get a chance to prove himself to be a major star player before having to settle down for a secondary role. As much as Gourcuff might not want to come back, I see even less chance of Abate coming back. After all, if he doesn't want to come back, there isn't anything we can actually do about it.
I'm sorry but if you take Abate just to give him 15 minutes here and there ... what do you think will happen ? If Abate is mentally strong, no problem, but if he is like Gourcuff when he was in Milan, he's going to be useless as he will want to do too many things in few time. Ancelotti probably knows that (and he also probably knows that he won't change the starting formation just for Abate), and it's surely why he said so.
The point of my post is: what makes you think that Abate will perform constantly well when he'll play 15 minutes here and there and so what makes you think he will help us to crack the opponent's defence like in that "Milan 0-0 Lecce 75th minute" example ?
Geo, in the last paragraph on my post I said that Abate can allow us to change the starting formation every now and then depending on the opponent that we are going to play. So I clearly implied that I don't want Abate back so he can only play 15 minutes when we need a goal. The fact that Carlo won't change the formation is something totally different, and I was just talking about my opinion on Abate's usefulness without thinking about what Carlo will do. If we put Carlo's words in perspective then yes.....we should stay off Abate. But that doesn't mean that i agree with him because like I said....Carlo is as stubborn as a mule and sometimes I feel like we will play some of these teams for 500 minutes with the score still being 0-0 and Carlo STILL won't even attempt to use something different.
As for whether I know he is going to perform well when he is not starting every week.....I don't know that. Maybe he will, maybe he won't and there is no one out there that can possibly know that. Not Carlo, Not me, not you. Even though I can say that players with his characteristics (very quick and fast) are usually very good when they come in from the bench because of their explosiveness.
As for what makes me think that he'll help us crack a defense........let me make myself clear. Abate may not be the answer(guarantee) and I never said that in my post. I just said that he offers a different dimension to our game. A tool that can be used and tried out potentially changing our formation for the last 15/20 minutes of a game like that. Because like I said, right now all we have is duplicate players on the bench and you can make as many changes as you want....our subs still don't have the capabilities to give us a different approach. And when a game is 0-0 at the 75th minute we DO need a different approach as the opponent is obviously comfortable at defending us, expecially when in games like those we are so slow and predictable..we usually end up with 1 or 0 goalscoring opportunities. We need a player that will stay wide and attack the full backs....trying to suck them out wide which will shift the whole defensive line.
Anyhow, I don't want to get in a whole tactical conversation about that as things like these are just simply different ideas of football that sometimes may work and sometimes may not.
I just think that Abate can be a very useful squad player for us and help us next season. The biggest reason why I got into this whole conversation and posted that post was because I wanted to respond to people who agree that we shouldn't have differentiated squad players in our club simply because we don't use certain formations to accommodate them. Like I said....it is ridiculous to have Robben in our squad when we don't normally use wings....but I don't see a problem in having Abate who surely wouldn't complain about being a squad player in Milan, and offer us a different approach when we need it. He already stated that it would be a dream to go back to Milan.
BUT, if Carlo stays with us next season, then I agree with xvr11 and we might as well try to use Abate for something else rather then bring him back and use him once the whole season. Because Carlo is obviously in love with his own ideas, and he wouldn't try anything else even if god came down himself and said: 'Carlo, do this differently next week/or in the last 30 mins and you'll win 3-0'. I thought Carlo doesn't try anything different during a game because he doesn't have the options.......but saying stuff like "Abate will not come because we don't use wide players" makes very little sense to me. Again, if the quote was about Robben (ex) then I would understand, but he was talking about Abate.
ACMILAN1983
21-04-2009, 03:09
I think Nefremo makes good points about Abate. He offers a dimension to our side that we have lacked since Serginho left. Someone argued Serginho barely featured, which to some degree is true, but Serginho was intelligent enough to strengthen his defensive weaknesses, thus allowing Carlo the opportunity to use him defensively.
In my opinion Abate has the quality to be a great squad player at Milan, and if he does follow the path of other wingers in Serie A and add to his defensive skill set, he could become a great purchase. Look at Zambrotta, Serginho and Janku (although not as successful).
Abate also played in 4-3-2-1 as a aM with Italy U21, he can also play as a fullback. If Serginho could so can he. The fact he plays as a pure winger now doesnt mean Abate cant transform his role. EVERY player can interpret different roles in different sistems.
And as a squad player it doesnt necessary eman we will use him once a while for 15min, its means he will be properly rotated with the rest of the squad ( squad is made from 18-20 players that play, not 13 like we do ).
If Juve can play De Ceglie as a LM then so can we play Abate as a fullback now and then. When we play big games of course we'll play our best 11 players that can play at that moment. But we waste players like Kaka', Gattuso, Pirlo, Zambrotta etc. coz we never rotate a bit and never put mixed teams in normal games. Properly mixed, with the right balance, a team that doesnt loose much on quality when some players are rested. Same happened with Yoan this year as Geo Tav says, he played every single game, so the form cant go on forever.
Im sure we cant expect that while this coach is here. When Carlo doesnt love someone he does whatever he can to proove that. Yoan, Abate, $heva ( the "traitoe" sentence in a tv show ).
Geo, in the last paragraph on my post I said that Abate can allow us to change the starting formation every now and then depending on the opponent that we are going to play. So I clearly implied that I don't want Abate back so he can only play 15 minutes when we need a goal. The fact that Carlo won't change the formation is something totally different, and I was just talking about my opinion on Abate's usefulness without thinking about what Carlo will do. If we put Carlo's words in perspective then yes.....we should stay off Abate. But that doesn't mean that i agree with him because like I said....Carlo is as stubborn as a mule and sometimes I feel like we will play some of these teams for 500 minutes with the score still being 0-0 and Carlo STILL won't even attempt to use something different.
As for whether I know he is going to perform well when he is not starting every week.....I don't know that. Maybe he will, maybe he won't and there is no one out there that can possibly know that. Not Carlo, Not me, not you. Even though I can say that players with his characteristics (very quick and fast) are usually very good when they come in from the bench because of their explosiveness.
As for what makes me think that he'll help us crack a defense........let me make myself clear. Abate may not be the answer(guarantee) and I never said that in my post. I just said that he offers a different dimension to our game. A tool that can be used and tried out potentially changing our formation for the last 15/20 minutes of a game like that. Because like I said, right now all we have is duplicate players on the bench and you can make as many changes as you want....our subs still don't have the capabilities to give us a different approach. And when a game is 0-0 at the 75th minute we DO need a different approach as the opponent is obviously comfortable at defending us, expecially when in games like those we are so slow and predictable..we usually end up with 1 or 0 goalscoring opportunities. We need a player that will stay wide and attack the full backs....trying to suck them out wide which will shift the whole defensive line.
Anyhow, I don't want to get in a whole tactical conversation about that as things like these are just simply different ideas of football that sometimes may work and sometimes may not.
I just think that Abate can be a very useful squad player for us and help us next season. The biggest reason why I got into this whole conversation and posted that post was because I wanted to respond to people who agree that we shouldn't have differentiated squad players in our club simply because we don't use certain formations to accommodate them. Like I said....it is ridiculous to have Robben in our squad when we don't normally use wings....but I don't see a problem in having Abate who surely wouldn't complain about being a squad player in Milan, and offer us a different approach when we need it. He already stated that it would be a dream to go back to Milan.
BUT, if Carlo stays with us next season, then I agree with xvr11 and we might as well try to use Abate for something else rather then bring him back and use him once the whole season. Because Carlo is obviously in love with his own ideas, and he wouldn't try anything else even if god came down himself and said: 'Carlo, do this differently next week/or in the last 30 mins and you'll win 3-0'. I thought Carlo doesn't try anything different during a game because he doesn't have the options.......but saying stuff like "Abate will not come because we don't use wide players" makes very little sense to me. Again, if the quote was about Robben (ex) then I would understand, but he was talking about Abate.
Actually, you didn't need to explain again as I understood what you wanted to say in your previous post(s) ... :D
I just try to take in perspective the fact that Ancelotti will stay and that he probably won't change the formation.
And anyway, if Pato keeps playing very well, if he has Inzaghi in form, Borriello in form or another striker who can help him alongside him, if Kaka' can be back to at least a good form, if some of our players in midfield can run again and perform well (no matter who is in midfield, but anyway, don't forget that the dudes will play to be in the next World Cup, so they're going to suddenly run !! :D), we won't have any problem against these so called "small teams".
Then, of course, if some of our key players are again injured, if Pato starts his season in a wrong way like this year, if our midfielders can't run, in this case, Abate can be a useful tool, even with Ancelotti not wanting to change his formation.
Abate also played in 4-3-2-1 as a aM with Italy U21, he can also play as a fullback. If Serginho could so can he. The fact he plays as a pure winger now doesnt mean Abate cant transform his role. EVERY player can interpret different roles in different sistems.
Yeah, it's not because he is a winger nowadays that he can't transform his role, but also, it's not because Serginho was able to do it than Abate is able to do it.
Anyway, I don't think that Ancelotti doesn't love these players (except for Shevchenko but I think Ancelotti didn't want him at all and it looked obvious, when he was the only player available with Pato in attack, he prefered using Pato for whole games instead of giving some time to Shevchenko, and personnally, I'm ok with that), saying that Abate could hardly be used in Milan doesn't mean he doesn't like him, that just means:
- like he said, he doesn't think he will be useful in his formations
- implicitely, that also means that he doesn't think that Abate is able to modify the way he plays ... I think Ancelotti knows that players can play other roles, don't forget he said that about Abate after putting Flamini as a RB, a role he never played in his life
Flamini was a fullback at Arsenal for some time. And played as a RB in his first game for Milan in 2nd half. Flamini as a fullback is nothing new.
Atabe also did some games as a fullback before, he is able to do it.
rinogattuso
21-04-2009, 06:45
Flamini was a fullback at Arsenal for some time. And played as a RB in his first game for Milan in 2nd half. Flamini as a fullback is nothing new.
Atabe also did some games as a fullback before, he is able to do it.
Yes you have right but Flamster is defensive monstrum and Abate somtimes in defence play like pusy(Max destroy him few times)..Ancelotti want team where 9 players play defence we all know that Carlo is adict to defensive duty's!
I always ask my self why Mister in LP season 07/08 against Arsenal on San Siro play 4-2-2-2 whith Pato-Inzaghi upfront :S:S:S: LOL
Flamini was a fullback at Arsenal for some time. And played as a RB in his first game for Milan in 2nd half. Flamini as a fullback is nothing new.
Atabe also did some games as a fullback before, he is able to do it.
He played LB in some games of his first or second season in Arsenal.
And do we need someone who is able to play in a position or a killer in that position ?
I think it's an interesting point to make that a player follow in the footsteps of another player. We may argue that a player will always be different than another player. There will never be a player that is exactly the same as another player.
It is more true to argue that players will have a tendency to look like each other than to argue the fact that is is more or less impossible to call a player the exact mirror of another player.
It is hard and difficult to obtain the security that a player will follow directly in the footsteps of a former player, let alone a star or a routined part of the first team. You cannot alone claim that it will be exactly the same. It's impossible. A player will always be different. It will also be a different human.
It's very, very interesting to see Ancelotti repeating past genious steps if it would become a reality that a player would fit in the same role as a previous star.
The move with Serginho was indirectly the most perfected move we've seen in the Milan side under Ancelotti. He was already very good at defending as a left winger even when it was his role to be a very offensive winger. The second he entered as left back we saw a different aspect of his nature as a player. In a tactical view we saw him in a very new position that opened up opportunities and chances not alone for Serginho's play alone but also Milan's play in general.
It is an intelligent and wise idea to dream and aspire of repeating this pattern of thinking into the Milan of the now. We still have the same coach who did this. Therefore we can do the same now. If we want to, if we have the right player but most importantly it will still be incredibly hard to even do it in the first place which was the case with Serginho as well. The truth is that the move from Ancelotti was so dissected, perfectly well thought and seeing that it almost makes it look like something from another galaxy.
And the way it was conducted with peace and tranquillity with a touch of old Italian elegance and Milan family tradition combined with the massively intelligent thoughts that must have undoubtely run through Ancelotti's heart after hours of perfect meditation was one of the brightest and most beautiful and loving experiences in my time of watching football by the fact that it was conduction with such grace and discretion. I cried. I cried a lot. Pure feeling and all of this was basically something that Carlo Ancelotti gave me. And yet many on this forum are ruthlessly and directly strikingly jumping to way to quick conclusions redeeming any idea that's basically running through his head. And that's not all. It strikes me that Carlo Ancelotti has not just made this step. He has made a rain of very simular decisions that's basically given every single one of the Milan family unforgettable memories that blessed us all. There was Stam's positioning in defence next to Nesta. There was Pirlo's improvement and awakening as graceful defensive general that reminded us of Rivera. Sheva's success and the running patterns that created a lot of very important goals that was not fully perfected in his time in Dynamo Kiev. Nesta improved his game as well under us. Cafu was massively improved as well in the sense that he simply played better under the tactics applied by Carlo Ancelotti. Gattuso was instructed perfectly as well to cover up spaces and his passing become more bright. Rui Costa was always a good player and like many of the stars we had under Carlo it is a good point that several of them, many you’ve always like to watch and enjoyed to see play were simply a lot better because Ancelotti motivated them with strength and power that a real man possess.
I love you all. There is simply deep regret and sadness in me and my pure Milan heart that so many Milan fans will simply share the feeling that Ancelotti is not good enough when it is the blank mirror of the truth of what actually happened. He has again and again loved us a lot more than we'll ever like nor understand, given us all smiles, hugs, looks of tranquillity in his innocent eyes in the moments where the Milan destiny was being decided and he was always calm. Many moments have graced our hearts and enriched our souls with perfect feelings of bliss that only a true Milan fan will appreciate. And fully. Maybe even more. All of this and more than our innocent and beautiful hearts and souls will ever understand have graced us all with more than we'll ever understand and maybe never fully appreciate and seize to understand and moments that have also graced our hearts and enriched our souls with perfect feelings of bliss that only a true Milan fan will appreciate.
And here we are in 2009. In a world where it is apparently perfectly all right and uncritiziced to attack and kill Seedorf for playing OK games, Ancelotti for making small mistakes due to the fact that everything is an opportunity and that it is very hard in the first place to see and execute the things on the pitch. And on top of that in a season where we are looking to finish second or third only 10 points behind the leader.
You should listen carefully to your heart if it is not completely wrong to do this after everything you've experienced in your time as a Milan fan as a Milan fan under Carlo Ancelotti and as a fan of football.
Im surprised that noone mentioned a game between Santos and Palmeiras has been played and that Keirisson and Neymar both scored a goal... Neymar is playing at some serious level in important games for such a young player.
Im surprised that noone mentioned a game between Santos and Palmeiras has been played and that Keirisson and Neymar both scored a goal... Neymar is playing at some serious level in important games for such a young player.
Did you watch that game ?
Mystik mentionned it few pages ago, he said he watched a little but didn't see anything special from these players in that game.
Gabriel489
21-04-2009, 08:15
Dude, your love for Carlo is like his love for Seedorf.
First of all great post, really enjoying reading it.
Just a few comments, had you actually seen Rui Costa played at Viola? B/c if you did, you would not say that Carlo got Rui Costa to play better. Rui Costa at Viola was probably the best Attk Mid beside ZZ. And he never played like that in Milan with a few exception.
I love Serginho and I think he really gave us a different dimension whenever he played, but he was never close to being the player that you are making him to be. On top of that, we signed him as a LB and not a Left winger. So Carlo really had not done anything special here.
The only player I gave Carlo credit in developing is using Pirlo as a midfielder.
DO you know how many players who Carlo destoryed in Milan? Abbiati(until this year, thanks God for that), Rivaldo(he was doing well before he came), Gilardino, Gourcuff, Coloccini, M. Laursen, Bobo, Pato if it was not for Borreillo's injury, and Flamini if it was not for Gattuso's injury.
Alot of us here blame Galli and Berlu for not signing the players Carlo wants or signing WC players. But look at a few yrs back when Milan had everything and all its players at their prime. We lost a semi-final, 4-0 in the second leg after leading 4-1 from the first leg, but we did managed to win the league(that was good). And a Final lost after we led the game 3-0 while not coming close to winning the league. We also came in fifth last year behind two teams that played in Series B the year before.
If you still think that had nothing to do with Carlo and accept those results as good results, thats great.
What bothers me the most about your post is that you are actually happy that we could finish 2nd and only within 10 pts of INTER!!!! We are Milan, one of the most historic clubs in Football history, when had we become satisfy with 2nd place and 10 pts behind the leader without CL football.
I have never been a fan of Carlo and I was impressed with his winning way for us, but things always will have a beginning follow by an end. Quite frankly, I think Carlo's end should have been a few yrs ago when he blew the CL final against Pool as thats the biggest defeat in football history.
It is time for him to leave and to be honest, he might be remember as someone who helped Milan with 2 CL titles and 1 Series A title, but he will be better remember by someone who lost a CL final after leading 3-0 at half-time.
Gabriel489
21-04-2009, 08:17
I did not watch that game, but from the two games that I seen Kerrison, I really don't think he is as good as the hype, despite scoring and coming close in both games.
I still think Gomez has what it takes to be the next big thing.
Christian
21-04-2009, 08:24
Im surprised that noone mentioned a game between Santos and Palmeiras has been played and that Keirisson and Neymar both scored a goal... Neymar is playing at some serious level in important games for such a young player.
We can't sign Neymar this summer anyways, since he's only 17, next summer though I would love to see him at Milan! Him playing behind Pato with Pato as a 9, would be cool.
I seem to have read that he really wanted to join Milan, because he wants to play with Pato. Perhaps he's to similar to Pato though.
Dude, your love for Carlo is like his love for Seedorf.
DO you know how many players who Carlo destoryed in Milan? Abbiati(until this year, thanks God for that), Rivaldo(he was doing well before he came), Gilardino, Gourcuff, Coloccini, M. Laursen, Bobo, Pato if it was not for Borreillo's injury, and Flamini if it was not for Gattuso's injury.
Gabriel, we pass from a situation of love to its opposite, a situation of hate. Your hate for Carlo makes you put on Ancelotti's shoulders weird things:
- Abbiati always did well in Milan, it's just that Ancelotti chose Dida when he was in his higher form, so Abbiati was loaned (and loaned, and loaned, and loaned again).
- you can't say Ancelotti is responsible of Rivaldo's failure.
- for Gila, I partly agree (I don't want to say again what I think about what happened with Gila, I made it in the thread about Gila and surely the one about Gourcuff)
- for Gourcuff, idem, other topic, I won't repeat myself, it would be disrespectful for all of you to repeat again and again the same things, so I let you go on the right topic if you want to (re)launch the debate :D
- for Coloccini and Laursen, I don't know
- for Bobo, who is Bobo ? Vieri ?
- for Pato, idem than Gila and Gourcuff ... to make it shortly, Dunga is responsible of the wrong start of season of Pato, not Ancelotti
- for Flamini, even with Gattuso, he would have played
For Pato and Flamini who are two successful players and recent additions to the squad, you use the "if" word to bash a little more Ancelotti, but this way, we could also say that if Gourcuff had been better mentally, he could have been successful, if Gila had a good partner alongside him, he would have managed to be a very good Milan player, etc etc etc.
Blacktop
21-04-2009, 08:47
To blame the performance of said players squarely on Carlo's "destroying" them is just plain ignorant. Not every player who comes here is going to become superstar material.
While I do like Carlo everyone must agree that he has created an atmosphere where the 'smaller' players dont really believe they will be given a chance and when that happens they lose all confidence.
Players like Vuidez, Cardacio, Mattioni, Colloccini and Gourcuff at some point will look at other clubs like inter and man united who dare to give kids chances and still win their league titles and play in the CL. Ancelotti really needs to play the 'fringe' players more or when he is faced with injuries as this season then those fringe players are going to play terribly because they are fit or confident enough.
-------
I really hope carlo can find a balance between trusting his regulars and allowing the subs to have an impact. We need moret han 12 or 13 players to win trophies.
hany.Egypt
21-04-2009, 09:43
Gabriel, we pass from a situation of love to its opposite, a situation of hate. Your hate for Carlo makes you put on Ancelotti's shoulders weird things:
- Abbiati always did well in Milan, it's just that Ancelotti chose Dida when he was in his higher form, so Abbiati was loaned (and loaned, and loaned, and loaned again).
- you can't say Ancelotti is responsible of Rivaldo's failure.
- for Gila, I partly agree (I don't want to say again what I think about what happened with Gila, I made it in the thread about Gila and surely the one about Gourcuff)
- for Gourcuff, idem, other topic, I won't repeat myself, it would be disrespectful for all of you to repeat again and again the same things, so I let you go on the right topic if you want to (re)launch the debate
- for Coloccini and Laursen, I don't know
- for Bobo, who is Bobo ? Vieri ?
- for Pato, idem than Gila and Gourcuff ... to make it shortly, Dunga is responsible of the wrong start of season of Pato, not Ancelotti
- for Flamini, even with Gattuso, he would have played
For Pato and Flamini who are two successful players and recent additions to the squad, you use the "if" word to bash a little more Ancelotti, but this way, we could also say that if Gourcuff had been better mentally, he could have been successful, if Gila had a good partner alongside him, he would have managed to be a very good Milan player, etc etc etc.
I will not talk about Gila and Gourcuf becasue I ,just like you, don't want to repeat my self, but i will talk about both Flamini and Pato, you say they would have played even with Gattuso and Borillo! Come on, give me a break, falmini used to sit on the bench while Rino was in the hospital for the sake of Ambrosini, and Pato also when Borillo was fit even though he performed much better when ever he was used.
Defending Carlo all the time is not the right choise in my opinion, there is Milan biggest defeat in their Europian history with Carlo after finishing the first league with 3 goals advanage over an avreage side, losing a CL final against avreage side in just 6 min', not to mintion Seedorf, Ambrosini, ignoring Henry and Gourcuf,.....etc, etc.
Carlo should have been sacked years ago and saying he won us 2 CL and 1 league in massive 8 years with the squad he had really frustrates me they should have been twice with any normal coash.
Love and hate has nothing to do with that, I swear to God.
Hasan Rossonero
21-04-2009, 10:02
Gilardino was given many chances. He panicked each time and choked. He needs a small-medium sized club that plays to his strengths. He does not have the guts to succeed at a big club.
Gourcuff was horribly slow each time he played, but I agree Ancelotti did not nurture him like he could have.
Rivaldo was given chances to play but was well past it. To play good games at a World Cup does not mean you will replicate that success a few weeks later. Just look at Grosso.
Vieri was finished when he came to Milan; his performances at Euro2004 were depressing.
There is some truth to the rest of Gabriel's list. Ancelotti has also been intransigent in fielding Seedorf. He stuck with Dida far too long.
My biggest problem with Ancelotti is that once he finds a winning formula, he abandons it. Look at our handsome win over Torino. It was born of diligent and (relatively) speedy fullbacks who cut in and provided support for more central players. It involved Kaka' behind Pato and Inzaghi, which is THE WAY Milan should play everytime. It involved one full out DM in Ambrosini, not a midfield laden with dour tacklers.
But watch Ancelotti change this the next game. Seedorf will make his return, and everything that we saw in that game will be flushed down the toilet.
IMO, the biggest problem in our team is Seedorf. The only way he will not be played is through injury or if he asks to leave. I hope it's the latter, but if not, I hope it's the former. Then, he can leave the club, heal, and slow another team down.
I will not talk about Gila and Gourcuf becasue I ,just like you, don't want to repeat my self, but i will talk about both Flamini and Pato, you say they would have played even with Gattuso and Borillo! Come on, give me a break, falmini used to sit on the bench while Rino was in the hospital for the sake of Ambrosini, and Pato also when Borillo was fit even though he performed much better when ever he was used.
Defending Carlo all the time is not the right choise in my opinion, there is Milan biggest defeat in their Europian history with Carlo after finishing the first league with 3 goals advanage over an avreage side, losing a CL final against avreage side in just 6 min', not to mintion Seedorf, Ambrosini, ignoring Henry and Gourcuf,.....etc, etc.
Carlo should have been sacked years ago and saying he won us 2 CL and 1 league in massive 8 years with the squad he had really frustrates me they should have been twice with any normal coash.
Love and hate has nothing to do with that, I swear to God.
Mate, everyone has to balance his points of view ... some people defend all the time Carlo, why ? Because there are people who criticize all the time, even when something is rightly done. It's why this forum sometimes looks like a "Carlo lovers vs Carlo haters", there is no balance.
Personnally, I think Carlo is one of the best coaches, but I don't hesitate to criticize him sometimes. The problem is I don't see the need to bash him as some people always do it, and I really don't find any interest in cumulating posts saying the same things like you can see people do when we have a bad result in the match thread ...
As I said once, I think he should have been sacked after our last CL win (yes, it can sound weird). I'm not a pro-"let's fire this coach because we lost 3 games !!", it has to be done smartly, at the right moment, so for me, it was at the end of 2007 it should have been done, now let's last with him until 2010 and let's see what happens.
EDIT
saying he won us 2 CL and 1 league in massive 8 years
This bilan is a bit too summarized, you don't count the final (lost), the semi-final lost against Barcelona (with a disallowed goal from Sheva at the end of the game in Barcelona, goal that should have been allowed), you don't count the times we ended second of Serie A, you don't take in consideration Calciopoli, ...
But watch Ancelotti change this the next game. Seedorf will make his return, and everything that we saw in that game will be flushed down the toilet
As a Carlo supporter, this is my number 1 fear.
He is one of the best coaches around, but he's got a weird affection for the Dutch.:grinser:
Christian
21-04-2009, 11:41
I will not talk about Gila and Gourcuf becasue I ,just like you, don't want to repeat my self, but i will talk about both Flamini and Pato, you say they would have played even with Gattuso and Borillo! Come on, give me a break, falmini used to sit on the bench while Rino was in the hospital for the sake of Ambrosini, and Pato also when Borillo was fit even though he performed much better when ever he was used.
In all fairness Flamini did not play well in the first half of the season when he was given a chance. Except for his massive amounts of yellow cards, Ambrosini has been pretty decent this year, he's reckless, but so is Flamini. In respect to those particular games in the beginning of the season I think Ambrosini WAS better than Flamini at that time. It's good to see Flamini coming back strong though, and I hope he will keep his current level for a long time.
You do have a point that Carlo has a real problem motivating youngsters, and therefore he's partly to blame for Flamini not making an immidiate impact as Gattuso's replacement. It's already been mentioned earlier what Martin Laursen said about Carlo in a recent interview, but I still think it tells the story of why Carlo seems to be so bad with youngsters. Martin Laursen said that at his time with Milan, when he was young, he was always nervous about making mistakes when he played, because he knew he would be taken off as soon as he made one. Alot of players can't cope with that kind of pressure, and in alot of cases that kind of pressure hurts the performances. Martin Laursen and Gourcuff are to obvious examples. Gourcuff seemed to eager to impress, which let to him not performing well. Some players can cope with it ofcourse, eg. Kaka and Pato, but in the end it really is the coach's job to get the most out of his players by using the right form of motivation.
Yada, Yada, Yada...
Let's face it, Laursen was never Milan material.
MiamiMilanista
21-04-2009, 12:11
Milan's best move of the season so far:
A.C. MILAN OFFICIAL NOTE
4/21/2009
A.C. Milan communicates that the footballer Ferreira Da Rosa Emerson asked and obtained an immediate resolution of his relationship with the club, due to personal reasons. Thanking him for what he showed during his experience with the Rossoneri, Milan give Emerson all the best wishes for the future.
:)
Capo Ultra
21-04-2009, 13:22
Yada, Yada, Yada...
Let's face it, Laursen was never Milan material.
Correct. He never had what it took to become Milan material. And all those nasty swipes and bitter comments he made about Milan afterwards just shows you the huge lack of class he has - both as a player and as a human being.
Correct. He never had what it took to become Milan material. And all those nasty swipes and bitter comments he made about Milan afterwards just shows you the huge lack of class he has - both as a player and as a human being.
As far as I know he only ever said once about how he felt fear of making mistakes. It reflects the lack of oppertunities under carlo for unestablished players. Id have him above Senderos, Bonera, Favalli and Kaladze anyday. the fact that he left showed hunger and ambition - Something alot of our current players lack.
As far as I know he only ever said once about how he felt fear of making mistakes. It reflects the lack of oppertunities under carlo for unestablished players. Id have him above Senderos, Bonera, Favalli and Kaladze anyday. the fact that he left showed hunger and ambition - Something alot of our current players lack.
OR (the contrary)
The fact that he left just showed the guy gave up ...
Back to the Abate discussion...
His strengths are speed and wide play. He is in the range of 22-23 years old, looking to play to his strengths and make a name for himself at the RW/RM position. Teams who use those, he will play for. You cannot say, just because he is versatile enough to play other positions, stick him there. If you do, you will get less than 100% of what he can give you if he is playing his natural position. Playing Abate at RB would be FOOLISH as he would serve less at that position than he would at his natural position for another club.
Abate on a club that plays RW is greater then Abate on Milan playing RB.
Therefore, you include him in a deal where you can MAXIMIZE his potential as a player and potential as an asset.
People cry cry and cry about how Milan used to be able to play with 4 defenders and allow their midfielders to attack at will...so yeah the smart thing to do is put an attacker playing defense right? GIVE ME A BREAK. It's the same people that want Carlo sacked. Stupid things like that nonsense is what gets coaches fired.
Brasileiro
21-04-2009, 13:50
Gabriel, we pass from a situation of love to its opposite, a situation of hate. Your hate for Carlo makes you put on Ancelotti's shoulders weird things:
- Abbiati always did well in Milan, it's just that Ancelotti chose Dida when he was in his higher form, so Abbiati was loaned (and loaned, and loaned, and loaned again).
- you can't say Ancelotti is responsible of Rivaldo's failure.
- for Gila, I partly agree (I don't want to say again what I think about what happened with Gila, I made it in the thread about Gila and surely the one about Gourcuff)
- for Gourcuff, idem, other topic, I won't repeat myself, it would be disrespectful for all of you to repeat again and again the same things, so I let you go on the right topic if you want to (re)launch the debate :D
- for Coloccini and Laursen, I don't know
- for Bobo, who is Bobo ? Vieri ?
- for Pato, idem than Gila and Gourcuff ... to make it shortly, Dunga is responsible of the wrong start of season of Pato, not Ancelotti
- for Flamini, even with Gattuso, he would have played
For Pato and Flamini who are two successful players and recent additions to the squad, you use the "if" word to bash a little more Ancelotti, but this way, we could also say that if Gourcuff had been better mentally, he could have been successful, if Gila had a good partner alongside him, he would have managed to be a very good Milan player, etc etc etc.
Couldnīt agree more, GeoTav...
Dunga(and not Carlo) almost kill Pato confidence in Olympics. That was criminal...Pato was humiliated at the Olympics by Dunga.
Pato wasnīt at his best, but to demote him so early in the competition was one of the worst things that I saw in Football. Also, Rafael Sobis was average at best as a starter, and Dunga never called him at the press, and keep him as starter.
Regarding the discussion about Abate transition to LB position, using Serginho as a example, imo doesnīt make sense.
Seginho was a LB in Brazil his entire career before he come to Milan. The thing is that in Brazil, the majority of coaches used 2 defensive mid holders to let the fullbacks playing more free(now some coaches use a 3-5-2 scheme). So, when a guy like Serginho come to Italy, they need time and work to become a European type fullback(first obligation, to defend), so, they often are used as a winger. But they are raise as defenders since youth teams...with less defensive obligation than in Europe, but defenders...
My point is: Serginho was a fullback here in Brazil ...he was used to be a defender before. He just wasnīt asked to defend first...From what I know, Abate was always a winger, so I canīt see the so easy transition that people are seeing...
Brasileiro
21-04-2009, 13:57
I did not watch that game, but from the two games that I seen Kerrison, I really don't think he is as good as the hype, despite scoring and coming close in both games.
I still think Gomez has what it takes to be the next big thing.
Gabriel, Iīve being saying that Kerrisson is being over hyped, and that I donīt want Milan spending on him now, but the boy has talent. Heīs only 20 , so he have time to improve, but his capacity to score is amazing...
Btw, the same thing can be said about Gomez...he fail badly at Germany NT and at big stage. Just my opinion...
Brasileiro
21-04-2009, 14:03
Im surprised that noone mentioned a game between Santos and Palmeiras has been played and that Keirisson and Neymar both scored a goal... Neymar is playing at some serious level in important games for such a young player.
Yep, itīs incredible how mature is this boy. Btw, I donīt know if you guys heard this, but Neymar is playing with a fissure in a foot bone. His father is mad at the club because of this, but the boy wants to play...
Skinny but tough kid...
Emerson gone, Gattuso back in training... Miracle does happen!!!
Now if just seedorf and favalli could follow emerson's footstep by the end of the season, that would be priceless...
gregapenny
21-04-2009, 16:36
Oh Paloschi scored yet again for Parma... And you say that this kid is not ready... He's more ready than anyone and he would leave his heart on the pitch every single time, something we can not say for about 50% of our players...
Neymar, is someone to keep two eyes on.
OR (the contrary)
The fact that he left just showed the guy gave up ...
Possibly, I do think that Carlo needs to add player development to his skills though.
remote2book
21-04-2009, 16:54
well guys havent posted here in a while but have been reading and i wanted to bring gorcuff up if he ends up staying in bordeux than there might be a quick fix to that jeremy menez from roma just read on goal.com that roma are going to sign him (http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2009/04/21/1222232/roma-looking-to-sell-jeremy-menez-report) ,aybe the managment can look at that?
Sorry for the double post, but finally.....Milan are linked to Zapatta!! Its on calciomercato and am damn pleased just to have both 'Milan' and the name 'Zapatta' in the same sentence. Real were also linked to him this week.
He is strong, fast, good in the air, good with his feet and can play at right back if needed. The best player to partner Thiago and if Nesta does make it back then we have more possibilities.
Oh Paloschi scored yet again for Parma... And you say that this kid is not ready... He's more ready than anyone and he would leave his heart on the pitch every single time, something we can not say for about 50% of our players...
My original stance on Paloschi was always that it would be better for him to remain on loan next season (ideally with Parma if they're promoted). I just feel it would be better for his development as he'd play regularly, rather than sit around on our bench as our 4th choice striker or so. But obviously if the boy keeps scoring goals, then at some point management will have to seriously consider bringing him back AND giving him a proper chance in the team.
On another note (in addition to K77SH C's post), we've also been linked with two other CBs recently: Diego Godín of Villarreal and Adil Rami of Lille (on tuttom...). Young players, mind you!
Blacktop
21-04-2009, 18:20
Seedorf will make his return, and everything that we saw [v. Torino] will be flushed down the toilet.
*shudders* Don't say that.
Yes, Paloschi should be loaned for another season, then we'll bring him back, like Borriello.
Next year, we need one WC striker and my choice is Trezeguet, tall, great heading & shooting. His profile proves all.
Borriello, Pato, Pippo & Trezegol is a good set of cannons
And the year after: Borriello, Pato, Paloschi & Trezegol
Sorry for the double post, but finally.....Milan are linked to Zapatta!! Its on calciomercato and am damn pleased just to have both 'Milan' and the name 'Zapatta' in the same sentence. Real were also linked to him this week.
He is strong, fast, good in the air, good with his feet and can play at right back if needed. The best player to partner Thiago and if Nesta does make it back then we have more possibilities.
I'm a bit sceptical about him ... why are Udinese fans happy if he leaves ? That reminds me what happened with Senderos (was good in Arsenal but Arsenal fans were happy he left, and look at what he's done with us).
Anyway, these rumours were totally denied by his agent, sorry, not denied, destroyed !! :D
I'm a bit sceptical about him ... why are Udinese fans happy if he leaves ? That reminds me what happened with Senderos (was good in Arsenal but Arsenal fans were happy he left, and look at what he's done with us).
Anyway, these rumours were totally denied by his agent, sorry, not denied, destroyed !! :D
I didnt know Udinese fans are happy, but from what I have seen he is one hell of a defender and if we dont sign him we will wish we had. He and Santacrocce are the only options for me.
On another note (in addition to K77SH C's post), we've also been linked with two other CBs recently: Diego Godín of Villarreal and Adil Rami of Lille (on tuttom...). Young players, mind you!
The forst is 6 foot 1 and the second is 6 foot 3.
Lets hope Milan are looking for quality aswel as height.
Blacktop
21-04-2009, 20:57
Please don't make Pato the innocent victim here in terms of his treatment by Dunga. At the time, he had some attitude problems of his own and Dunga disciplined him appropriately.
They don't seem to have completely gone away, either, if this webcam video he supposedly appeared on recently is to be believed.
Please don't make Pato the innocent victim here in terms of his treatment by Dunga. At the time, he had some attitude problems of his own and Dunga disciplined him appropriately.
They don't seem to have completely gone away, either, if this webcam video he supposedly appeared on recently is to be believed.
Firstly, it is rumours, we don't know if it is true or not.
Secondly, if it is true, it's his personal life, isn't it ? And this kind of thing will not make him playing better or worse ... so we don't have to say anything about that, nor judge, it's not a problem of attitude there.
Problems of attitude are things like missing trainings, going in a club the day before a game, being agressive with his team mates, things that are directly linked to the form of the player and the way he plays ...
Pato, who before the Olympics had time in the Brazilian NT (the normal one, not the Olympics one), had to be a starter for the Olympics. Instead of that, Dunga chose to use Rafael Sobis like a starter whereas this guy wasn't even a sixth choice of Dunga for the "normal" Brazilian NT ... and he said something that couldn't help Pato to play well: he said that Sobis was better than Pato and it's why he used him instead of Pato !! If Ancelotti said something like that, you would have asked for him to be fired !! Oh, and just like that, where is Rafael Sobis now ? Nowhere if you compare him to Pato ...
On another note (in addition to K77SH C's post), we've also been linked with two other CBs recently: Diego Godín of Villarreal and Adil Rami of Lille (on tuttom...). Young players, mind you!
I'm a bit afraid about these rumours ... I don't know Diego Godin enough to make a statement about him, but I'd just say he didn't impress me at all in the two rounds against Arsenal. About Rami, it's simply his first year in Ligue 1 !!
So I'd say like with Hoarau from PSG (Paris), taking him would be a kind of bet as it's his first season at high level. Maybe I'd be even more prudent with Rami than with Hoarau by adding that Ligue 1 is a very defensive championship: the mistakes done by some defenders are sometimes cleared by other defensive players whereas in other leagues, as it is more attack-minded, the mistake would lead to a goal. Be careful, I don't say here that Rami made mistakes ... :D, he's done a very good season so far, he firstly won his starting place and is nowadays the most important player of their defence.
So like with Hoarau, I would take an option on the player, let him one more year in his current club (especially as, for Hoarau, Paris is maybe going to qualify for the next CL, and for Lille, they are probably going to qualify for UEFA Cup ... yeah I changed my predictions since the other time as a lot of things happened in few games !! :D).
About Trezeguet, as someone mentionned earlier: no way. He's a Juventus player so it is already a good reason not to buy him. He's going to be 32, so it is another reason. He's injury prone, third reason not to take him. He often has problems with someone (Domenech in French NT, but we can't blame him for that lol, Ranieri in Juventus now, who's next ?). And to finish, do we need a kind of clone of Inzaghi ? Trezeguet is this old-school striker type, he doesn't defend, he doesn't move a lot, he doesn't dribble (once by year), he is "just" excellent to place himself to score, like Inzaghi.
Gabriel489
21-04-2009, 22:18
It was such a good day, first official statement of Emerson leaving, then a rumor linking us with Zapata, and as the night is still young, hopefully, Seedorf is caught with drugs and be suspend for life.....
Anyhow, just want to reply to comments made toward my post earlier.
First of all, I am never a Carlo's supporter, I gave him credit here and there before but not for once am I convince about his coaching and managing skills.
Secondly, when I said about Bobo(Veiri) and Rivaldo, I believe that they were better players than what they showed in Milan even at their age. Maybe they were only a fraction of the players compare to their peak but they still have it in them. Just like Dinho now, he might never be at his best in Milan but he is sure better than having 20mins per game now.
Thirdly, Laursen's comment. If he actually stayed in Milan, he is much better than Kaladze, Bonera, Favalli and Senderous. On top of that, I am glad someone brought up the making a mistake's comment, and compare that with players like Kaka and Pato. You see, when an attacker made mistake, unless he missed an open net goal, he won't be critize esp if he score a goal in the end. But when a defender made a mistake, it usually result in a goal or a good chance on goal. My point is that if you are an attacker, you can afford to make a mistake where as you can't as a defender. Thats to me is why Kaka and Pato can manage to crack the starting 11 and guys like Coloccini and Laursen can't even be on the bench.
As for Gourcuff, I believe Carlo did not play him at a position of comfort from the start.
Brasileiro
21-04-2009, 23:19
Please don't make Pato the innocent victim here in terms of his treatment by Dunga. At the time, he had some attitude problems of his own and Dunga disciplined him appropriately.
They don't seem to have completely gone away, either, if this webcam video he supposedly appeared on recently is to be believed.
Are you from Brazil?? If so, can you tell me more about this "attitude problems"??
I never heard anything here in Brazil about attitude problems of Pato...So, I will be pleased if you put some links about this "rumor", because I really canīt remember of to read or heard anything about this "fact" here in Brazil...
Dunga never rated Pato, and his "hate" over Pato was the reason of one of his big brawls with Brazilian press(Dunga is a master of it). Everyone(press and supporters) in Brazil wanted Pato called for Brazil NT, but Dunga said at that time that he couldnīt call a player that isnīt playing regular football(Patoīs first six months in Italy)...fair enough.
But, if it was the truth, why is Dunga calling T. Silva now that he is in the same situation of Pato?? Calling T. Silva now when heīs in the same situation of Pato is at least suspect...
Btw, this Dunga character is the same that in the past tell some people of press(in off) that one of his teammates(Mario Sérgio) was using illegal substances...this almost finish Mario Sérgio career(and wasnīt proved) and even the journalist apologized with the player several years after publishing the history.
This Dunga also was the player that led a movement(with other players) to only give interview to the biggest Brazilian TV channel in the World Cup, and only God know what he receive for that.
So, donīt come here to say that he has moral to teach a boy that is praised as a great character for every person of the press that know or work with him. Also, everyone at Internacional(his former club) only has good words about the boy, so it will be good if you post any reliable source about this "attitude problem"...
Btw, the only player Dunga said that had attitude problem in Olympics was Marcelo...and even the justification was laughable:
"Playing to cocky" ... Yep, maybe because Marcelo was humiliating people with his dribles, nuttmeges(sp?), and being the best player of Brazil at the Olympics. Yep, Dunga was(is) really right to tell a talented player that he needs to play average(like Dunga), and donīt use all of his abilities:confused: :p1510:
At the Olympics, Dunga said Pato was demoted for technical reasons, and because he wanted a forward that help more the team pressing the adversary defense, and said Sobis was better at this. Btw, even after that, Pato never complained and stayed positive and working for the team.
Several months after, the so malign Pato still isnīt a forward that helps to press the adversary defense, and even with this "BIG flaw" for a offensive players :wallbang: is being so "little praised" by his coach, Directors and Milan fans...On the other hand, Sobis(to be fair, a good boy), is playing far from a big center of football.
Also, why guys like Maldini, Ambrosini, Gattuso in Italy, or Lúcio, Kaká, Juan, Gilberto Silva in Brazil NT never saw this "attitude problems" and always praised Patoīs attitude and character?? Strange, no??
Wow, to much time wasted with Dunga :wallbang:
P.S. Now Iīm curious, are you GillaAttack(sp?)??
Since it looks like mattioni will fail to impress milan,moving abate to RB remains uncertain.How about marco motta,he found his groove recently,being called to italy NT.and he is a udinese player(AM I correct?),maybe we can get him at a reasonable price.
Originally posted by el fre
Yada, Yada, Yada...
Let's face it, Laursen was never Milan material.
Agree, nor is coloccini. sendros is better than both(at least he is a decent heavy weight)
Maybe time will tell gila is not milan material either,not first striker material at least,better as third striker if he can accept that role like Tomasson.
Gabriel489
22-04-2009, 01:18
HOw can u say Senderous is better than both?
Why not? sendros is mentally prepared,and he is strong,we are not bothered by average team's long ball tactics in recent games.
In that he's willing to accept sub role, something Laursen couldn't cope with, hence him leaving. Both Coloccini & Laursen lack the mental strength, but in terms of defending Laursen is about same as Senderos. Coloccini is far from both. Still Senderos needs to be at another club next season.
Tony75,do you have quick links to something like "Add 20lbs in 28 days"? I'm thinking about put on some weight.
For some people that had a discussion with me, some good news about Thiago and a RB place. By Brasiliero:
" Sorry my friend, I didnīt saw youe question there.
To be honest, I really canīt remember of Thiago playing as a RB, but thinkng about it, I think youīre giving Carlo a amazing idea.
Imo Thiago has skills to do it if asked. He has the speed, ability and will to do the job. Also, Carlo(as Guss Hiddink) love to put a CB as one of the fullbacks...
Now, I hope Carlo read your idea, because I think it will be a great option for the games that we need more defensive power.
My friend mrki helping Carlo...now I know the world isnīt right " :) :)
So as we have talked, we need a Nesta-miracle and we can have a defence that can hold on at an extremly high level ( considering Milan signs a CB as they need to and say they will ). Immagine a defence with Thiago-Nesta-Agger-Zambro; its a world class stabile defence. Not to mention possible players like Alex, Santacroce ( my fav :) ).
Also, we all saw what Flamini can do in an offensive phase as a fullback. We can for sure count on him.
Noone mantioned, but Berlusconi said that he bought Dinhoand sees no reason to buy Adebayor... hehe. Classic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brasiliero, the world isnt right since people decided not to listen to Plato(Platon), so its nothing new :)
Tony75,do you have quick links to something like "Add 20lbs in 28 days"? I'm thinking about put on some weight.
I've added a link to my sig.
About Trezeguet, as someone mentionned earlier: no way. He's a Juventus player so it is already a good reason not to buy him. He's going to be 32, so it is another reason. He's injury prone, third reason not to take him. He often has problems with someone (Domenech in French NT, but we can't blame him for that lol, Ranieri in Juventus now, who's next ?). And to finish, do we need a kind of clone of Inzaghi ? Trezeguet is this old-school striker type, he doesn't defend, he doesn't move a lot, he doesn't dribble (once by year), he is "just" excellent to place himself to score, like Inzaghi.
Only a little infos of him can be found in this thread, so I will be a bit stubborn ^^
We will not spend big next summer, if yes, the priority is for a WC CD.
For Champion League, you need the experiences, only Pippo is not enough.
Bori and Pato are our future, so we do not need one young, talent striker like Adebayor, Benzema, Houreau,...
The 4th SC should be a bit old, not expensive, good to great profile. Trezeguet and... Sheva fit it.
I dont really care Juve or Inter, as we have the like of Pippo, Pirlo and Seedorf (before). One young man (Pato - 20), one at best age (Borriello - 27), one will retire (Pippo - 36), so 32 years old of Trezeguet is not a problem, that make a good mix of ages. Players over 30s are easier to have injuries, but I personally do not think Tre is one, even if he is, there are place for Bori and Pato (just joking ^^). In the past, did we hear any relationship problems of Trezeguet? The astrology lover Domenech, hehe, forget it. And the problem he has is with Juventus, not Ranieri.
For playing style, Pippo, Pato, Borriello are all good headers but Trezeguet is great one. If we still have Beckham next season, the Tre-Beck combi can be very useful, like Van Nistelrooy - Beckham. And we'll have one good wing back, wont we? Hehe.
He is two feet shooter with powerful long shot, too.
I dont think Tre is Pippo clone. Pippo is invisible, Tre always has the attention of defenders. Pippo plays well when he is out of defender's marking or someone lure the Defs out for him, that the reason for his recent goals. People think Pippo is out of date, and concentrate more on Pato, or Kaka, Ronnie. Pippo scores when we almost forgot him.
We have Pato with speed and dribbling skill, Borriello is enthusiasm, and 2 world best AM: Kaka and Ronie, even Seedorf at his good day. So an old-school type is the addtion, I think.
Finally, Trezeguet may not be the must-buy, but he fit for tight budget, reliable with CL & WC quality (CL is what he lack, right).
For 4th striker, I could think of only him (since Sheva is not successful).
As for a CD, we need in vain a WC CD.
For Nesta (and Maldini) replacement, that must be a world best, but who is?
Even the like of Rio, Vidic, Terry,... cant satisfy my love for Italian style defenders, and... we cant buy them ^^
Thiago Silva is a good buy, strong, fast, tough. We need one with leadership mentality, great positioning and heading to supplement.
Mexes, Zapata, Santacroce,... still lack something to fill this role, but we must have one of them.
Agree, nor is coloccini. sendros is better than both(at least he is a decent heavy weight)
Maybe time will tell gila is not milan material either,not first striker material at least,better as third striker if he can accept that role like Tomasson.
Senderos isn't better than Laursen or Coloccini. Laursen (when fit) was among the best CBs in the EPL, Senderos never was. It's just that Laursen's game was better suited to English football, as Coloccini's game was better suited to Spanish football.
Correct. He never had what it took to become Milan material. And all those nasty swipes and bitter comments he made about Milan afterwards just shows you the huge lack of class he has - both as a player and as a human being.
What nasty swipes? All I've heard him say (as others have mentioned) is that basically he was very nervous about making a good impression. To say that he has a huge lack of class as a person IMO is completely out of line - and unfounded to say the least. He was never going to be first choice with Nesta and Maldini ahead of him, so who can blame him for leaving?
And how you can say that he has a huge lack of class as a player baffles me, as he has performed better than most of our defenders over the last few years.
Gabriel489
22-04-2009, 04:39
I still can't believe that some here really believe Senderous is better than Coloccini and Laursen. I don't even want to talk about his anymore as it is just plain pointless.
Thanks for Ceceves for pointing out the obivous.
I just want to add one thing, Senderous can't even start for Arsenal, heck he can't even make it to the bench for Arsenal and he actually gets to start for us. It really shows the quality we have as a club.
Are you from Brazil?? If so, can you tell me more about this "attitude problems"??
I never heard anything here in Brazil about attitude problems of Pato...So, I will be pleased if you put some links about this "rumor", because I really canīt remember of to read or heard anything about this "fact" here in Brazil...
Dunga never rated Pato, and his "hate" over Pato was the reason of one of his big brawls with Brazilian press(Dunga is a master of it). Everyone(press and supporters) in Brazil wanted Pato called for Brazil NT, but Dunga said at that time that he couldnīt call a player that isnīt playing regular football(Patoīs first six months in Italy)...fair enough.
But, if it was the truth, why is Dunga calling T. Silva now that he is in the same situation of Pato?? Calling T. Silva now when heīs in the same situation of Pato is at least suspect...
Btw, this Dunga character is the same that in the past tell some people of press(in off) that one of his teammates(Mario Sérgio) was using illegal substances...this almost finish Mario Sérgio career(and wasnīt proved) and even the journalist apologized with the player several years after publishing the history.
This Dunga also was the player that led a movement(with other players) to only give interview to the biggest Brazilian TV channel in the World Cup, and only God know what he receive for that.
So, donīt come here to say that he has moral to teach a boy that is praised as a great character for every person of the press that know or work with him. Also, everyone at Internacional(his former club) only has good words about the boy, so it will be good if you post any reliable source about this "attitude problem"...
Btw, the only player Dunga said that had attitude problem in Olympics was Marcelo...and even the justification was laughable:
"Playing to cocky" ... Yep, maybe because Marcelo was humiliating people with his dribles, nuttmeges(sp?), and being the best player of Brazil at the Olympics. Yep, Dunga was(is) really right to tell a talented player that he needs to play average(like Dunga), and donīt use all of his abilities:confused: :p1510:
At the Olympics, Dunga said Pato was demoted for technical reasons, and because he wanted a forward that help more the team pressing the adversary defense, and said Sobis was better at this. Btw, even after that, Pato never complained and stayed positive and working for the team.
Several months after, the so malign Pato still isnīt a forward that helps to press the adversary defense, and even with this "BIG flaw" for a offensive players :wallbang: is being so "little praised" by his coach, Directors and Milan fans...On the other hand, Sobis(to be fair, a good boy), is playing far from a big center of football.
Also, why guys like Maldini, Ambrosini, Gattuso in Italy, or Lúcio, Kaká, Juan, Gilberto Silva in Brazil NT never saw this "attitude problems" and always praised Patoīs attitude and character?? Strange, no??
Wow, to much time wasted with Dunga :wallbang:
P.S. Now Iīm curious, are you GillaAttack(sp?)??
Good post..pato is very humble seeing the way the interviews that has come out so far...i dont think he's cocky,but he's extremely confident at times which is good..
that person is a dida fan..only dida's attitude pleases her..
rinogattuso
22-04-2009, 06:24
KJAER: I like AC Milan
Acording to some sources,Galliani would go whith 15 milion + Di Gennaro for this supertalented player..but zamparini don't like Galliani so..:S
rinogattuso
22-04-2009, 07:04
Ancelotti: "I remain always at Milan,to bet"
Some friend from MM will kill yourself when read this..
Only a little infos of him can be found in this thread, so I will be a bit stubborn ^^
We will not spend big next summer, if yes, the priority is for a WC CD.
For Champion League, you need the experiences, only Pippo is not enough.
Bori and Pato are our future, so we do not need one young, talent striker like Adebayor, Benzema, Houreau,...
The 4th SC should be a bit old, not expensive, good to great profile. Trezeguet and... Sheva fit it.
I dont really care Juve or Inter, as we have the like of Pippo, Pirlo and Seedorf (before). One young man (Pato - 20), one at best age (Borriello - 27), one will retire (Pippo - 36), so 32 years old of Trezeguet is not a problem, that make a good mix of ages. Players over 30s are easier to have injuries, but I personally do not think Tre is one, even if he is, there are place for Bori and Pato (just joking ^^). In the past, did we hear any relationship problems of Trezeguet? The astrology lover Domenech, hehe, forget it. And the problem he has is with Juventus, not Ranieri.
For playing style, Pippo, Pato, Borriello are all good headers but Trezeguet is great one. If we still have Beckham next season, the Tre-Beck combi can be very useful, like Van Nistelrooy - Beckham. And we'll have one good wing back, wont we? Hehe.
He is two feet shooter with powerful long shot, too.
I dont think Tre is Pippo clone. Pippo is invisible, Tre always has the attention of defenders. Pippo plays well when he is out of defender's marking or someone lure the Defs out for him, that the reason for his recent goals. People think Pippo is out of date, and concentrate more on Pato, or Kaka, Ronnie. Pippo scores when we almost forgot him.
We have Pato with speed and dribbling skill, Borriello is enthusiasm, and 2 world best AM: Kaka and Ronie, even Seedorf at his good day. So an old-school type is the addtion, I think.
Finally, Trezeguet may not be the must-buy, but he fit for tight budget, reliable with CL & WC quality (CL is what he lack, right).
For 4th striker, I could think of only him (since Sheva is not successful).
As for a CD, we need in vain a WC CD.
For Nesta (and Maldini) replacement, that must be a world best, but who is?
Even the like of Rio, Vidic, Terry,... cant satisfy my love for Italian style defenders, and... we cant buy them ^^
Thiago Silva is a good buy, strong, fast, tough. We need one with leadership mentality, great positioning and heading to supplement.
Mexes, Zapata, Santacroce,... still lack something to fill this role, but we must have one of them.
To make it short with another reason why Trezeguet won't come/wouldn't come (I hope): he won't accept to be the 3rd or 4th choice.
About Rami, I found an interview from 2 weeks ago, just before the rumours linking us to him (he would cost about 8M).
He said that his biggest idol was Nesta and a dream would be to play with him (but he also said he didn't even think it could be possible), and that his favorite clubs are Milan and Juventus. He added that he thinks all players in Ligue 1 have this dream of playing in this kind of clubs, such as Liverpool or Chelsea too.
So the guy must be surprised about these rumours that link him with us nowadays ...
Ancelotti: "I remain always at Milan,to bet"
Some friend from MM will kill yourself when read this..
:5att::5att::5att::gun:
My god, youst go away to chelsea or wherever already! :) Take the money and run :)
About Trezeguet: He IS STILL one of the best Cf'sa in the world. He is a Juventino, and I wouldnt like to see im in Milan ( talking as a rossonero ). But professionally, he would have been 100% correct solution. Capable of scoring 20-25 goals per year anytime.
Italian press say Carlo has 3 demands: 2cb's ( most likely jaer and Rami, Milan will send Di Gennaro and one more ) and Adebayor. I dont know anything about Rami, but I know we are still missing Santacroce in Milanello :) But immagine backline of: Nesta ( some say he CAN be ok ), Bonera, Kjaer, Thiago, Zambrotta, Flamini ( Fullback ), Marek ( ??), and one more young player + Darmian and Albertazzi.
AND, Adriano will resign from Merda. Im not sure Milan will not take him, seriousely. Leonardo, Galliani, Kaka' etc. They are all ( in reality ) in for Adriano. Maybe Milan will make things bitter for Inter and Moratti. But I wouldnt be happy about this at all.
Christian
22-04-2009, 08:58
I like the fact that Carlo is making these requests, if it's true. It's time we drop the old fashioned approach with Galliani calling all the shots, it's not optimal. Look at Real Madrid, they have the suits calling all the shots... they spent more than anyone else, and still can't get further than the 1/8's in CL.
gregapenny
22-04-2009, 09:41
The italian press are also writing that Mexes is virtually a Milan player. That's the second time I read that... Especially if Roma fails to qualify for CL...
Brasileiro
22-04-2009, 09:52
Good post..pato is very humble seeing the way the interviews that has come out so far...i dont think he's cocky,but he's extremely confident at times which is good..
that person is a dida fan..only dida's attitude pleases her..
Thanks, regin...
I thought it was another poster, because he likes to argue with my posts...and after the day I said Pato could beat Messi as the world best player in the future the situation became annoying :)
I read her posts in another forum, and itīs always negative about Pato. Despite I agree with Dida also is a great guy, and donīt deserve the slack heīs getting this season, thereīs no need to bash(with false information) other players for that...
@Everyone:
I watch a lot of EPL, so I have a question about Peter Cech...do you guys want him as a Milan goalkeeper next season?? Do you think heīs a reliable player for our goalkeeper position?
Thanks, regin...
I thought it was another poster, because he likes to argue with my posts...and after the day I said Pato could beat Messi as the world best player in the future the situation became annoying :)
I read the her posts in another forum, and itīs always negative about Pato. Despite I agree with Dida also is a great guy, and donīt deserve the slack heīs getting this season, thereīs no need to bash(with false information) other players for that...
@Everyone:
I watch a lot of EPL, so I have a question about Peter Cech...do you guys want him as a Milan goalkeeper next season??
No, since Euro and his mistake, he has shown moments of brilliance and some moments where he seemed totally unconfident (looking like Dida nowadays).
Christian
22-04-2009, 10:08
Peter Cech has been a bit of a mess for quite a while now. A couple of years ago he was one of the best goalkeepers in the world, lately he's been terrible though, at least whenever I've seen him. I'd definetly consider Abbiati better this season.
That's not to say I would necessarily mind us buying him. It would be a bit of a gamble, and perhaps we've taken one to many gamble's in the last couple of year, but he is talented there's no doubt about that. In any case, I consider Abbiati a good goalkeeper, and I think we should look to strengthen our back four first.
Next year, I'd like to see Agger and Santacroce.
Nesta recovered (my first wish) and Thiago to turn out a god Defender.
Lately, I am too under the impression that Mexes will arrive (don't know how I feel about that thogh).
As for Flamini, I'd rather see him in the midfield but it might get to crowded.
We will probably sign Adebayor (again, just a hunch, like in Mexes's case).
As for the goalkeeper situation, it's all still a mystery.
So, my ideal starting 11 for the next season would be:
--------------------Marchetti
Zambro--------Nesta-------Thiago-------LB?
--------------------Pirlo-------------------
-------Flamini------------------Gourcuff----
--------------------Kaka-------------------
-----------Pato----------Adebayor---------
The season is long, so these players would of course rotate with Abiatti, Gattuso, Agger, Bonera, Santacroce, Ronaldinho, Boriello, Pippo (?), and some of the future prospects from the youth squad of which we discuss the last few weeks.
Seedorf would play somewhere far far away from Milan
Brasileiro
22-04-2009, 10:43
@GeoTav...Iīm glad to see what you wrote.
I saw lot of similarities of what happened with Dida in Peter Cech last 3 or 2 years performances...
To be honest, Cech is failing more than Dida over the last 2 years, but for some reason(I have a opinion about it, but I will not post) several people that bashes Didaīs(he was horrible last 2 seasons) would jump in a Cech bandwagon purchase in a bit...
Canīt understand(age aside) why Cech doesnīt receive the same Didaīs treatment??
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